RED FLAGS of CHILD PREDATORS

[Anonymous]

Risks are most prevalent where there’s an in-crowd of parents always trying to be cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a literal child predator who is now in prison for his crimes. Many people didn’t suspect him, even after a number of red flags, because he was skilled at grooming the adults around him, too. But there were signs.

- he wanted to be buddy-buddy with the kids, in a way that made him a favorite to many kids….but was deeply off-putting to a few.

- related to above, he didn’t treat all kids with equal kindness or respect. He teased or made examples of kids who didn’t quite fit in. Almost like he was playing in-group/out-group games.

- he had a vision of himself as someone who “got” kids more than other adults. The other grownups were uptight, uncool. “They” were harmful to the kids. By contrast he was the one who could see it, and be the kids’ friend. (A different way of saying this is that he was creating a wedge between the kids and the other adults in their lives, and inserting himself into the space).

- he sometimes made jokes that pushed the boundaries. Nothing major, nothing glaringly obvious, and there was always plausible deniability. They were little things, but they were off.

- similarly, sometimes he engaged in conversations that were a little too personal. Talked to kids about who liked who, that sort of thing. Again, there was always plausible deniability.

- while many kids liked him, a few kids hated him and had a hard time explaining why. Because so many kids liked him and thought he was cool, it was assumed by the adults that you could just dismiss the kids who didn’t like him — like they must be antisocial or difficult.

- He resented the kids who didn’t like him in a way that felt way too personal.

There were other things, but those were the bigger dynamics. Important to know that some people — particularly those with social capital (money, power, popularity) — thought he was great, which is why it was so easy to dismiss those who expressed concern or the kids who were uncomfortable. He was smart — smarter than many of the adults around him, and he’d figured out how to get the “right” people on his side. And that’s how he had the access to the kids that he did. He’s in prison now, but a lot of damage was done.

TLDR: if your kid is uncomfortable with someone, especially in a way that they and you can’t quite put a finger on, trust that. Trust it. We all have a wisdom that is more embodied than logical, and it is there for a reason.

There was this dynamic in the rowing team at Whitman HS in MCPS during the years that the predator coach operated. Some of his female students had complained about him but they had been ignored by the parent board, because he made friends with the parents, and the parents counted on him to win races and burnish their kids' college admissions. When everything came out in a big way and he was sentenced to 3 years in prison, some of the board members claimed ignorance, and the others stayed mighty quiet.

Everything gets so much worse when the adults who are supposed to be part of the village go along with a predator and ignore complaints.

When administrations or parent boards brush off complaints without even asking police to do an investigation, you have a huge red flag. You have a systemic problem. There’s potentially a number of pedophiles they’re protecting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a literal child predator who is now in prison for his crimes. Many people didn’t suspect him, even after a number of red flags, because he was skilled at grooming the adults around him, too. But there were signs.

- he wanted to be buddy-buddy with the kids, in a way that made him a favorite to many kids….but was deeply off-putting to a few.

- related to above, he didn’t treat all kids with equal kindness or respect. He teased or made examples of kids who didn’t quite fit in. Almost like he was playing in-group/out-group games.

- he had a vision of himself as someone who “got” kids more than other adults. The other grownups were uptight, uncool. “They” were harmful to the kids. By contrast he was the one who could see it, and be the kids’ friend. (A different way of saying this is that he was creating a wedge between the kids and the other adults in their lives, and inserting himself into the space).

- he sometimes made jokes that pushed the boundaries. Nothing major, nothing glaringly obvious, and there was always plausible deniability. They were little things, but they were off.

- similarly, sometimes he engaged in conversations that were a little too personal. Talked to kids about who liked who, that sort of thing. Again, there was always plausible deniability.

- while many kids liked him, a few kids hated him and had a hard time explaining why. Because so many kids liked him and thought he was cool, it was assumed by the adults that you could just dismiss the kids who didn’t like him — like they must be antisocial or difficult.

- He resented the kids who didn’t like him in a way that felt way too personal.

There were other things, but those were the bigger dynamics. Important to know that some people — particularly those with social capital (money, power, popularity) — thought he was great, which is why it was so easy to dismiss those who expressed concern or the kids who were uncomfortable. He was smart — smarter than many of the adults around him, and he’d figured out how to get the “right” people on his side. And that’s how he had the access to the kids that he did. He’s in prison now, but a lot of damage was done.

TLDR: if your kid is uncomfortable with someone, especially in a way that they and you can’t quite put a finger on, trust that. Trust it. We all have a wisdom that is more embodied than logical, and it is there for a reason.

How did the high status popular crowd react when he was found out?

It's an interesting question. I can really only speak to the adults' responses. They were shocked. There was a lot of processing, a bit more chatter than I was comfortable with. A fair amount of distancing from the situation, as if the parents were explaining to themselves why it wouldn't happen to their kids.

I guess if you're asking "Did they learn the lesson that often those with the least social capital are actually best positioned to know who is/isn't okay?" the answer is no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can teach your kids about intelligence disobedience.

https://irachaleffauthor.com/blink-think-make-your-choice-use-your-voice/

Excellent. Thank you, PP!

[Anonymous]

The uncomfortable truth is that most sexual abusers are family members or trusted people, fathers, uncles, boyfriends of parent. They are mostly men. Random strangers are less common.

https://www.childsafety.gov.au/about-child-sexual-abuse/who-perpetrates-child-sexual-abuse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a literal child predator who is now in prison for his crimes. Many people didn’t suspect him, even after a number of red flags, because he was skilled at grooming the adults around him, too. But there were signs.

- he wanted to be buddy-buddy with the kids, in a way that made him a favorite to many kids….but was deeply off-putting to a few.

- related to above, he didn’t treat all kids with equal kindness or respect. He teased or made examples of kids who didn’t quite fit in. Almost like he was playing in-group/out-group games.

- he had a vision of himself as someone who “got” kids more than other adults. The other grownups were uptight, uncool. “They” were harmful to the kids. By contrast he was the one who could see it, and be the kids’ friend. (A different way of saying this is that he was creating a wedge between the kids and the other adults in their lives, and inserting himself into the space).

- he sometimes made jokes that pushed the boundaries. Nothing major, nothing glaringly obvious, and there was always plausible deniability. They were little things, but they were off.

- similarly, sometimes he engaged in conversations that were a little too personal. Talked to kids about who liked who, that sort of thing. Again, there was always plausible deniability.

- while many kids liked him, a few kids hated him and had a hard time explaining why. Because so many kids liked him and thought he was cool, it was assumed by the adults that you could just dismiss the kids who didn’t like him — like they must be antisocial or difficult.

- He resented the kids who didn’t like him in a way that felt way too personal.

There were other things, but those were the bigger dynamics. Important to know that some people — particularly those with social capital (money, power, popularity) — thought he was great, which is why it was so easy to dismiss those who expressed concern or the kids who were uncomfortable. He was smart — smarter than many of the adults around him, and he’d figured out how to get the “right” people on his side. And that’s how he had the access to the kids that he did. He’s in prison now, but a lot of damage was done.

TLDR: if your kid is uncomfortable with someone, especially in a way that they and you can’t quite put a finger on, trust that. Trust it. We all have a wisdom that is more embodied than logical, and it is there for a reason.

I’m one of the prior posters and I think it is really key to be the adult who is a little bit obnoxious and unfraid of being judged. If your kid doesn’t like someone everyone else does, back them up. If someone is trusted by powerful people, but not you, ask questions and be cautious. Say no to sleepovers or one on one time even if all the other kids and families are doing it. Predators succeed when their environment and the children’s families are too “polite” to raise concerns or consider the worst - or when systems (like high-profile schools) have too much at stake to act. Being unafraid of the social risks sends a message that you are watching and keeps your kid safer.

It's really hard to be in this position. I'm the PP, and I suspected, but I didn't actually know for sure. All these people were reassuring me, and all these other parents loved him, and maybe I was the crazy one, and if I was wrong, I was ruining someone's life, and all being weird/off isn't criminal, and anyway, what if the real problem is my kid, which is what everyone seems to be suggesting? And you don't know until you actually know -- until then, you're just constantly second-guessing yourself.

(But god. I can still see in my mind's eye my kid's body language after one of the plausibly deniable but "off" interactions. She didn't have the words for it at the time, she had only the physical response. In retrospect her body language should have told me everything).

I also agree that high-profile schools/etc. have too much at stake to act. I actually think they have too much at stake to even consider that it could be true. Something in them shuts down the possibility completely, before it's even a conscious thought. And by the time it is conscious, it's too late and they're already heading straight into legal-protection mode.

[Anonymous]

My simple philosophy was that I just did not trust other adults with my kids.

My kids knew not to go to a teachers room on their own. They had to take another classmate with them. Protected my kid and protected the teacher from false allegations.

They knew not to change in the open locker area for gym in school or swimming pool. I always gave them a men's XXL t-shirt and they put it on their head and changed clothes underneath it, making the t-shirt their own privacy tent. When they shower in a stall in the family changing rooms, I stood guard outside. Why? Because grown ass women with gray pubic hair and stretched out boobs would be walking around naked. Similarly, the clothes were changed in a changing booth with a lockable door.

We became the house which hosted people. I made it attractive for both parents and children. I would rather that I was used as a free and trusted babysitter - rather than send my kids to other people's home. And if that meant that I was feeding someone's kids 2 meals a day, and helping them do their homework, I was ok with it.

We made sure that my kid was not excluded from any social activity, and the best way to ensure that was to host all these events in our house and invite and include everyone. I did not care if people did not reciprocate. Did it cost me money, time, resources, energy etc- yes, it did.

In HS, the last thing we wanted was that our kids get into bad company, toxic relationships and bad peer pressure. So, we made sure that they were busy in their EC activities and studies. And for that we made sure that they did these activities with their friends. We made opportunities for all the kids in our circle. We made sure that all the school events were attended by them and we hosted every kid who wanted to attend. We roaped in the parents to carpool for these events and we provided the party. No bf-gf issues. No promprosal drama. No staying over in a hotel for after party nonsense. We also made sure that my kids knew about the perils of social media and they kept their digital footprints clean.

Everyone knew that my kids were under our supervision and they never got into a bad situation. I drove them to school, I was available to pick them up from their school, their EC, their tournament etc. There are many parents who were like us and we made sure that we were working the logistics together.

When my kids went to college and had talks with their dormmates, they were shocked to hear how many of them talked about poor relationship with their parents, abuse, neglect etc. It was eye-opening for them.

Finally, please be open with your kids. Explain the world to them, teach them about predators, teach them about how they can be safe, ask them their opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a literal child predator who is now in prison for his crimes. Many people didn’t suspect him, even after a number of red flags, because he was skilled at grooming the adults around him, too. But there were signs.

- he wanted to be buddy-buddy with the kids, in a way that made him a favorite to many kids….but was deeply off-putting to a few.

- related to above, he didn’t treat all kids with equal kindness or respect. He teased or made examples of kids who didn’t quite fit in. Almost like he was playing in-group/out-group games.

- he had a vision of himself as someone who “got” kids more than other adults. The other grownups were uptight, uncool. “They” were harmful to the kids. By contrast he was the one who could see it, and be the kids’ friend. (A different way of saying this is that he was creating a wedge between the kids and the other adults in their lives, and inserting himself into the space).

- he sometimes made jokes that pushed the boundaries. Nothing major, nothing glaringly obvious, and there was always plausible deniability. They were little things, but they were off.

- similarly, sometimes he engaged in conversations that were a little too personal. Talked to kids about who liked who, that sort of thing. Again, there was always plausible deniability.

- while many kids liked him, a few kids hated him and had a hard time explaining why. Because so many kids liked him and thought he was cool, it was assumed by the adults that you could just dismiss the kids who didn’t like him — like they must be antisocial or difficult.

- He resented the kids who didn’t like him in a way that felt way too personal.

There were other things, but those were the bigger dynamics. Important to know that some people — particularly those with social capital (money, power, popularity) — thought he was great, which is why it was so easy to dismiss those who expressed concern or the kids who were uncomfortable. He was smart — smarter than many of the adults around him, and he’d figured out how to get the “right” people on his side. And that’s how he had the access to the kids that he did. He’s in prison now, but a lot of damage was done.

TLDR: if your kid is uncomfortable with someone, especially in a way that they and you can’t quite put a finger on, trust that. Trust it. We all have a wisdom that is more embodied than logical, and it is there for a reason.

I’m one of the prior posters and I think it is really key to be the adult who is a little bit obnoxious and unafraid of being judged. If your kid doesn’t like someone everyone else does, back them up. If someone is trusted by powerful people, but not you, ask questions and be cautious. Say no to sleepovers or one on one time even if all the other kids and families are doing it. Predators succeed when their environment and the children’s families are too “polite” to raise concerns or consider the worst - or when systems (like high-profile schools) have too much at stake to act. Being unafraid of the social risks sends a message that you are watching and keeps your kid safer.

This. It is interesting that once you stand your ground, people accept you as you are. I also taught my kids that they could say "no" to dating, to parties, to beach week - by saying that we are very strict. I had no problem being seen as the strict mom. There was no desire in me to be popular and cool mom. I was already hosting quite a bit at my house and so my kids were able to socialize as well as learn these skills by helping out. They were not lacking for friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ones who do it don't have any red flags. That's how they get away with it. Keep your eyes on your own kids.

Yep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The uncomfortable truth is that most sexual abusers are family members or trusted people, fathers, uncles, boyfriends of parent. They are mostly men. Random strangers are less common.

https://www.childsafety.gov.au/about-child-sexual-abuse/who-perpetrates-child-sexual-abuse

Yep. I never told anyone, but when my kids were young, I would not leave them alone with any man for any length of time except for my father or my brother (who I know for sure are not risky). This included my FIL and BIL, who I have no reason to suspect. My MIL's husband of a few years (even with her around) was a complete non-starter. "[When visiting MIL and the newish husband] You and DH should go out and see the area--we can watch the girls" Um hell naw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My simple philosophy was that I just did not trust other adults with my kids.

My kids knew not to go to a teachers room on their own. They had to take another classmate with them. Protected my kid and protected the teacher from false allegations.

They knew not to change in the open locker area for gym in school or swimming pool. I always gave them a men's XXL t-shirt and they put it on their head and changed clothes underneath it, making the t-shirt their own privacy tent. When they shower in a stall in the family changing rooms, I stood guard outside. Why? Because grown ass women with gray pubic hair and stretched out boobs would be walking around naked. Similarly, the clothes were changed in a changing booth with a lockable door.

We became the house which hosted people. I made it attractive for both parents and children. I would rather that I was used as a free and trusted babysitter - rather than send my kids to other people's home. And if that meant that I was feeding someone's kids 2 meals a day, and helping them do their homework, I was ok with it.

We made sure that my kid was not excluded from any social activity, and the best way to ensure that was to host all these events in our house and invite and include everyone. I did not care if people did not reciprocate. Did it cost me money, time, resources, energy etc- yes, it did.

In HS, the last thing we wanted was that our kids get into bad company, toxic relationships and bad peer pressure. So, we made sure that they were busy in their EC activities and studies. And for that we made sure that they did these activities with their friends. We made opportunities for all the kids in our circle. We made sure that all the school events were attended by them and we hosted every kid who wanted to attend. We roaped in the parents to carpool for these events and we provided the party. No bf-gf issues. No promprosal drama. No staying over in a hotel for after party nonsense. We also made sure that my kids knew about the perils of social media and they kept their digital footprints clean.

Everyone knew that my kids were under our supervision and they never got into a bad situation. I drove them to school, I was available to pick them up from their school, their EC, their tournament etc. There are many parents who were like us and we made sure that we were working the logistics together.

When my kids went to college and had talks with their dormmates, they were shocked to hear how many of them talked about poor relationship with their parents, abuse, neglect etc. It was eye-opening for them.

Finally, please be open with your kids. Explain the world to them, teach them about predators, teach them about how they can be safe, ask them their opinion.

That is a bizarre example. What makes that scary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can teach your kids about intelligence disobedience.

https://irachaleffauthor.com/blink-think-make-your-choice-use-your-voice/

It’s also know as “Blink, Think, Choice, Voice" strategy from the book Intelligent Disobedience: Doing Right When What You're Told To Do Is Wrong.

https://youtu.be/RdKPIK71SP8?si=a3_4DgCkVQ-bFC57

Thank you.

I really like the idea of "intelligent disobedience." That's a great framing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My simple philosophy was that I just did not trust other adults with my kids.

My kids knew not to go to a teachers room on their own. They had to take another classmate with them. Protected my kid and protected the teacher from false allegations.

They knew not to change in the open locker area for gym in school or swimming pool. I always gave them a men's XXL t-shirt and they put it on their head and changed clothes underneath it, making the t-shirt their own privacy tent. When they shower in a stall in the family changing rooms, I stood guard outside. Why? Because grown ass women with gray pubic hair and stretched out boobs would be walking around naked. Similarly, the clothes were changed in a changing booth with a lockable door.

We became the house which hosted people. I made it attractive for both parents and children. I would rather that I was used as a free and trusted babysitter - rather than send my kids to other people's home. And if that meant that I was feeding someone's kids 2 meals a day, and helping them do their homework, I was ok with it.

We made sure that my kid was not excluded from any social activity, and the best way to ensure that was to host all these events in our house and invite and include everyone. I did not care if people did not reciprocate. Did it cost me money, time, resources, energy etc- yes, it did.

In HS, the last thing we wanted was that our kids get into bad company, toxic relationships and bad peer pressure. So, we made sure that they were busy in their EC activities and studies. And for that we made sure that they did these activities with their friends. We made opportunities for all the kids in our circle. We made sure that all the school events were attended by them and we hosted every kid who wanted to attend. We roaped in the parents to carpool for these events and we provided the party. No bf-gf issues. No promprosal drama. No staying over in a hotel for after party nonsense. We also made sure that my kids knew about the perils of social media and they kept their digital footprints clean.

Everyone knew that my kids were under our supervision and they never got into a bad situation. I drove them to school, I was available to pick them up from their school, their EC, their tournament etc. There are many parents who were like us and we made sure that we were working the logistics together.

When my kids went to college and had talks with their dormmates, they were shocked to hear how many of them talked about poor relationship with their parents, abuse, neglect etc. It was eye-opening for them.

Finally, please be open with your kids. Explain the world to them, teach them about predators, teach them about how they can be safe, ask them their opinion.

I would vote you “Parent of the Year”. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

[Anonymous]

Someone who gets a child a lot of gifts. Especially expensive ones.

[Anonymous]

Also, someone who volunteers to babysit or help out with kids. If you need help, ask specific people for help, instead of accepting unsolicited offers. You are less likely to randomly "choose" a predator than a predator is at offering help.