Feeling betrayed (someone I considered an intellectual…)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, by their mid-20s, most people realize that their parents are humans. They're flawed, have their own traumas, and baggage. Whether you had a good or bad parent as a child, most people realize this as they become adults themselves.

It seems like you're realizing this a lot later than most people. Therapy may be good for you.

+1 I have to agree with this. It's odd to feel such a high level of disappointment and also odd that you say you didn't have much to do with him for twenty years, but then he moves from his small town to your city? It seems like perhaps your perspective is the problem and it doesn't match up with reality.

Op here, sorry I just found my topic.

To clarify, he was busy and I was busy for 20 years and we only did those brief family visits. When he got older o visited to make sure he is taken care of (to deep clean his house, do repairs, make sure he goes to the dr etc etc), what I call life maintenance.
Now he is close and I am a bit tired of always having to talk to him. He is well maintained if I may, so I honestly don’t know what to do with him. He wants to talk every day but I am very very bored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you think Marxism is similar to strange conspiracies, this might not be the forum for you.

Marxism is pretty niche, and is not implemented easily if at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So he’s human and was a great father to you in your formative years. You were oblivious to the struggles likely in large part because your parents shielded you from them. You come across as immature and self involved. Time to grow up and stop focusing on what you perceive as his shortcomings and be humble.

No he was not a great father. I did think he was the best as he was very masterful at projecting the grandeur. Only later have I realized that he didn’t shield me from my mother’s abuse (as a child I saw him as a victim like myself).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This happened with my mom. I helped her get a bachelors and masters to habe a better life. She kept working at the same mom and pop store. I was so angry. But then I was able to see it from her perspective. The constant politicing. The constant continuing education and certification. The bullying in that field. She is happy and healthy. Doing well for herself. At peace.

OP, you don't have the 10 yeara it took me to get over it. I suggest you try to empathize with your father. Focus on the gifts he gave you. It seems like you admired specific lessons he taught you? Hold onto those things. Seek out the positive memories. Acknowledge the truth. But don't live in the negative.

Thank you,
I am trying. Having some Space would help me but he texts or calls every day. It started after my mother died and I don’t know how to nicely tell him I don’t need him so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He didn’t change, you did. Your childhood self adored her father (how great!). Your early adult self had some sort of freak out and has held it against him ever since. But he didn’t change! You just grew up, acquired more knowledge, had a bigger world view. All normal and good. Most people appreciate their parents MORE because they see them as adults and not through a child’s eyes. You’re still looking through a child’s eyes. Something a therapist I hope can help you with.

He didn’t change but I was able to see him for who he “really” (I am not sure if this is the real him but that’s how I see him). Weak and without a broad world view, always afraid of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:…is in fact a close minded, rigid person prone to conspiracy theories.

Not sure which forum but I have a problem that seems too trivial to go to therapy over, but keeps bugging me. Maybe someone can say the right words and I’ll snap out of it?

I’ve always been a daddy’s girl and considered my father the smartest man on earth, was always looking up to him. My first disappointment came when I was about 18, I’ve had a year abroad and suddenly realized that my father is not as all knowing as he seemed before. I got over it, however, and soon left for college and I haven’t had much contact with him for years since (since about 2002 or so?) because I lived in a different city and we were both busy with our lives.

20 years go by, my mom dies, and he moves to my city to be closer to me (he is of course an elderly man by now, almost 80).
We start hanging out more, we talk, at first it’s fascinating as we are both rediscovering each other as personalities. However, it’s beginning to dawn on me that he has been frozen in time for decades, possibly since he was about 50. He stayed in the same town all of that time except maybe for a couple trips to see family.
I don’t think it’s due to retirement, but he has never really been that smart or had a broad outlook in life. He was not a great student, neither in HS nor in college, in fact he dropped out and re enrolled into a different school. He then kept changing jobs, and never worked for large or well known companies. I suspect his layoffs weren’t really layoffs, he was let go a few times.
I vaguely remember how he was holding pretty niche views 20 years ago too (nothing too bad, just a medley of strange conspiracy theories but also Marxism). So it’s not like he is losing it, he was always a weird guy, but he projected such intellectual might that he managed to fool me!

Anyway, I can’t get over that second disappointment in him. I remember it was pretty tough at 18, my key takeaway was that he isn’t as competent at life as I thought but then I was too busy living life.
The problem is that I can’t hold this disappointment back and this results in jabs towards my dad. I realize that I should stop talking to him about anything but everyday stuff, but I keep bringing up current events and such and I can’t get over the repeated disappointment from his takes on things.

Anyway, maybe someone has words of wisdom for me. No need to tell me how mean I am - I realize I should be a bigger person and accept dad as he is, but I can’t get over this very childish feeling of betrayal!
Thank you for reading all this.

Are you sure he’s not intelligent/intellectual? You say he isn’t, but your criticisms of him are all focused on status, not intelligence. “Not a great student”; “never worked for a large or well known company”; “stayed in the same town for all that time.” All those things could readily describe someone who is highly intelligent and intellectually interesting, but who is not cut out for a more traditional path due to other characteristics of temperament or interest. Even his tendency to conspiracy theory is not *always* a sign of low intelligence, Newton famously was fascinated by alchemy.

I am not sure. All I know is that all his knowledge is from the past and it’s mostly factual. All that has happened since about the 1990s - he had very little depth of understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is normal. Most people go through this with at least one parent. People are human, which means they are a mess. No one's dad is as smart or sophisticated as we found them to be when we were 5.

Thank you,
I don’t think I’ve ever read or heard about it, strangely

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to square "daddy's girl" and idolizing your father with not having much contact with him for the past 20 years.

Idolizing etc was when I was a child.
I then was disappointed at about 18, then got over it or so I thought, and we had our own lives. Now i rediscovered him and it's like i am 18 again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you describe is every male Trump voter in America. Low education, underemployed, low intelligence, but, but, but..... look how smart I am because I mansplain with great confidence total BS things I read in a magazine or that one time I read Ayn Rand (Anthem - because it's the shortest).

He is not a Trump voter and he is college educated and has read many books. Still doesn’t make him smart or confident or competent. He is just pretending I think. Look how many books I’ve read. Yeah the newest is maybe 50 years old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll save you a year of therapy- you’re really mad at yourself for being naive, not mad at him. Maybe you’re also guilty you bailed on him all these years.

Some people look back at how they idolized their parents with fondness. I thought my mom had the best voice and loved when she sang to me. Now when I hear her sing in church I know she’s not the best but it’s sweet that I once thought so. I don’t get mad at her for not being the singer my 5 year old self thought she was.

Thank you! But why did I not become fond of those memories? Why all the anger? It’s like I’ve been conned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dad got kicked out of high school at 16 and started working right away. He is extremely smart and well-read. I really don't think it's fair to assume having a formal education means being more intellectual, especially for someone from a small town and without means. I know so many college grads who never read. Your post sounds a bit snobby and not grounded in facts since it's not clear 1. You have any idea why your dad left jobs 2. You don't articulate what theories he actually believes.

He did go to college at the end but it was a bumpy road.
I am talking about HS grades though.
The theories he believes are “the Soviet experiment was the best but bad people conspired to ruin it”; “there’s a group of powerful people trying to get rid of 80% of the population they consider useless” etc etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most of us figure out that our parents aren’t that smart and don’t always make the right decisions when we’re teens.

Yep that happened to me at 18 but why am I going thru this again at 48?!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of us figure out that our parents aren’t that smart and don’t always make the right decisions when we’re teens.

Yep that happened to me at 18 but why am I going thru this again at 48?!!!

Therapy. Sounds like it's a more about stuff within you that's triggered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:…is in fact a close minded, rigid person prone to conspiracy theories.

Not sure which forum but I have a problem that seems too trivial to go to therapy over, but keeps bugging me. Maybe someone can say the right words and I’ll snap out of it?

I’ve always been a daddy’s girl and considered my father the smartest man on earth, was always looking up to him. My first disappointment came when I was about 18, I’ve had a year abroad and suddenly realized that my father is not as all knowing as he seemed before. I got over it, however, and soon left for college and I haven’t had much contact with him for years since (since about 2002 or so?) because I lived in a different city and we were both busy with our lives.

20 years go by, my mom dies, and he moves to my city to be closer to me (he is of course an elderly man by now, almost 80).
We start hanging out more, we talk, at first it’s fascinating as we are both rediscovering each other as personalities. However, it’s beginning to dawn on me that he has been frozen in time for decades, possibly since he was about 50. He stayed in the same town all of that time except maybe for a couple trips to see family.
I don’t think it’s due to retirement, but he has never really been that smart or had a broad outlook in life. He was not a great student, neither in HS nor in college, in fact he dropped out and re enrolled into a different school. He then kept changing jobs, and never worked for large or well known companies. I suspect his layoffs weren’t really layoffs, he was let go a few times.
I vaguely remember how he was holding pretty niche views 20 years ago too (nothing too bad, just a medley of strange conspiracy theories but also Marxism). So it’s not like he is losing it, he was always a weird guy, but he projected such intellectual might that he managed to fool me!

Anyway, I can’t get over that second disappointment in him. I remember it was pretty tough at 18, my key takeaway was that he isn’t as competent at life as I thought but then I was too busy living life.
The problem is that I can’t hold this disappointment back and this results in jabs towards my dad. I realize that I should stop talking to him about anything but everyday stuff, but I keep bringing up current events and such and I can’t get over the repeated disappointment from his takes on things.

Anyway, maybe someone has words of wisdom for me. No need to tell me how mean I am - I realize I should be a bigger person and accept dad as he is, but I can’t get over this very childish feeling of betrayal!
Thank you for reading all this.

OP, to me (bolded) this is key. Why would you go from being a daddy's girl to having no contact with him for almost 20 years, especially after your mother died? That is pretty harsh. Everyone is busy and living in a different city is no excuse. What details are you leaving out?

Actually we started communicating more when my mother died. Before that he was busy pleasing her and also she was alienating him from me (or me from him?)
As in, she would insert herself into any communication

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I got stuck at you describing yourself as a "daddy's girl" who had no relationship with her dad for 20 years. That does not compute.

I was before I grew up