A massive income required to live the idealized american dream around here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Somewhat recently making 7 figures, having started from humble roots. I am deeply grateful to feel secure financially, assuming I can keep my employment trajectory.

What's crazy is that it seems like you need to make this much around here to feel like you are set with the american dream:

Owning a single family home (and all the upkeep that entails)
Sending kids to college
Saving enough so we can have a (hopefully) financially secure retirement one day
Family vacations
Two cars
Making sure parents are taken care of

I think over time, we should be able to do all of the above relatively comfortably....but shouldn't most of the population? I feel we can only do all of this stuff because of a very high income. What does that say about the expected standard of living in America??

No no and no

You don’t take care of your parents that is their job. People who do this are stupid. They didn’t save that’s on them.

Vacations are not a requirement.

Keeping up with others ??

[Anonymous]

It takes a several years of living below your means to really feel comfortable. If you spend everything you make, then you'll always feel poor. But if you spend less than you make, investments will grow, your income will likely grow with promotions, and, if you've bought, your home value will also increase.

We're millennials and it felt really hard in our early 20s, like life was too expensive. We had no parent help. But we lived super inexpensively in a crappy apartment and saved. This gave us enough to get a fixer upper house in a bad part of DC to get onto the property ladder. Now, in our early 40s, life is super comfortable.

You do need a solid and stable income to be able to live below your means, but that's far from seven figures. You also need to be a bit patient--it and takes time to build savings. You also need to make trade offs: We're very comfortable now but still have clothes from Old Navy and Target, we don't have a garage, and drive inexpensive, older cars. But we take nice vacations and live in an area with short commutes and good schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have ask that on 300k income. Most of the population does not have even half that income. Most of them didn't go to college. Most don't have employre matched retirement plans (or any retirement). Most don't have savings accounts or investments. Most don't have Healthcare. It's real have and have not. Very sad reality and so far from the American dream

+1

My family makes over 300K and we got on the property ladder over a decade ago. To this day I still feel crushed at times by childcare expenses (even just basic county summer camps for a couple kids can run $800+/week). We have retirement and college to save for, plus an elderly parent who needs some help. And there is always an unexpected $$$ home or car expense popping up. Kid activities are expensive too. $180/month for no frill strip mall martial arts. $250 spring rec sport registration. I end up browsing marketplace or Buy Nothing for used sports gear and winter gear. Doing a basic summer vacation like driving to the beach for a week feels like a big expense, forget flying us all overseas.

And my takeaway from this isn’t woe is me. I realize I’m fortunate to have the things like employer retirement match, health insurance, and enough wiggle room in the budget for some mid week takeout.

Instead I’m left thinking, holy crap if my family has to carefully budget to afford these things on 325k, and we are noticing the pinch of grocery prices etc. going up, then … how the hell are middle class families doing life right now? Like I would think at a *top 10%* income I could easily buy my family plane tickets to see out of state family or replace a broken kitchen appliance. Yet these are big purchases for us.

What are families making $150k doing right now? And that used to be a good family income not that long ago! (Certainly during my lifetime).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We do everything you mention on under $400k a year, including a SAHP. We started out 17 years ago at $140k. It does not require “seven figures.” Current invested assets (excluding home equity and college funds) are over $3M in our early 40’s.

So you didn’t have to pay for childcare (a major expense for most families) and you started out almost 2 decades ago when things were significantly more affordable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do everything you mention on under $400k a year, including a SAHP. We started out 17 years ago at $140k. It does not require “seven figures.” Current invested assets (excluding home equity and college funds) are over $3M in our early 40’s.

So you didn’t have to pay for childcare (a major expense for most families) and you started out almost 2 decades ago when things were significantly more affordable.

Yep. On practically 1/10th the income OP claims to have - $140k, as I already stated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do everything you mention on under $400k a year, including a SAHP. We started out 17 years ago at $140k. It does not require “seven figures.” Current invested assets (excluding home equity and college funds) are over $3M in our early 40’s.

So you didn’t have to pay for childcare (a major expense for most families) and you started out almost 2 decades ago when things were significantly more affordable.

That is a choice to have a SAHP. You could have done that as well. They gave up one income, lived on the other, and realized the advantages of doing so. It requires living on one income.

[Anonymous]

Social media has messed people up. Everyone thinks the average person should live like a king. The images of middle-class families in movies are anything but that. They’re images of UMC with jobs and problems of the middle class.

Look, there is nothing middle-class about 3kids in the best private schools, a $3 million, 6000sq ft house in a fancy part of town, two luxury cars on lease, several vacations abroad each year, completely funding retirement and college, and caretaking both sets of parents. That is not normal!!! Again, that is not normal!!!

Here’s normal. Kids are in an average public school, house is 2000-3000 sq ft, Honda and T sedans and basic minivan or SUV, staycations or trips to the local beach or the grandparents house, partially funding retirement and probably relying on a small pension, cash-flowing in-state college, and parents in cheap living, downsized or multi-generational housing. That is normal!

OP, congratulate yourself, but get sober.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Social media has messed people up. Everyone thinks the average person should live like a king. The images of middle-class families in movies are anything but that. They’re images of UMC with jobs and problems of the middle class.

Look, there is nothing middle-class about 3kids in the best private schools, a $3 million, 6000sq ft house in a fancy part of town, two luxury cars on lease, several vacations abroad each year, completely funding retirement and college, and caretaking both sets of parents. That is not normal!!! Again, that is not normal!!!

Here’s normal. Kids are in an average public school, house is 2000-3000 sq ft, Honda and T sedans and basic minivan or SUV, staycations or trips to the local beach or the grandparents house, partially funding retirement and probably relying on a small pension, cash-flowing in-state college, and parents in cheap living, downsized or multi-generational housing. That is normal!

OP, congratulate yourself, but get sober.

NP Yes, this last part is similar to us, other than the fact that we travel overseas once a year to see my family. But we compensate for that by hardly ever eating out and other lifestyle choices to save during the year (only did town rec sports outside of school for instance).

[Anonymous]

You are really bad with money if it takes you seven figures to have a comfortable lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are really bad with money if it takes you seven figures to have a comfortable lifestyle.

Yes. yes you are.

[Anonymous]

Newsflash: living in the United States suuuuuucks for 99.9% of people. The US is only good for the ultra rich.

Garbage healthcare unless rich
Garbage education unless rich
Garbage infrastructure
Garbage safety
Garbage housing affordability
Garbage childcare

It's honestly shocking how bad the US is now for the middle class and why so many people in the US roll over and take it because they let the millionaire and billionaire class tell them everything is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Social media has messed people up. Everyone thinks the average person should live like a king. The images of middle-class families in movies are anything but that. They’re images of UMC with jobs and problems of the middle class.

Look, there is nothing middle-class about 3kids in the best private schools, a $3 million, 6000sq ft house in a fancy part of town, two luxury cars on lease, several vacations abroad each year, completely funding retirement and college, and caretaking both sets of parents. That is not normal!!! Again, that is not normal!!!

Here’s normal. Kids are in an average public school, house is 2000-3000 sq ft, Honda and T sedans and basic minivan or SUV, staycations or trips to the local beach or the grandparents house, partially funding retirement and probably relying on a small pension, cash-flowing in-state college, and parents in cheap living, downsized or multi-generational housing. That is normal!

OP, congratulate yourself, but get sober.

I'm not sure even that is normal. Normal American Dream maybe, but ignores all those who live in a townhouse, condo, or apartment and have one parent riding the bus to their two jobs, expecting the social safety net to catch them when they retire. That's normal too.

We're similar to the other people posting about having $250K-300K per year. We bought our house over a decade ago, our 2 cars are old and relatively modest, our vacations are fun but we have one of them a year in addition to a trip to see grandparents. We fully fund our retirement but that is a priority to us. Our house is a LOT smaller than other families at our basically-parochial-school-tutition private and in a nice but not amazingly desirable neighborhood. We make trade-offs, and our income is still top 10% in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Newsflash: living in the United States suuuuuucks for 99.9% of people. The US is only good for the ultra rich.

Garbage healthcare unless rich
Garbage education unless rich
Garbage infrastructure
Garbage safety
Garbage housing affordability
Garbage childcare

It's honestly shocking how bad the US is now for the middle class and why so many people in the US roll over and take it because they let the millionaire and billionaire class tell them everything is fine.

Um...ever read any Megan McArdle articles on how the middle class lives in Europe and how small their houses are? How little outside help they can afford to pay for? Sure they get a lot of things from their taxes, but the average American who makes claims like you would be giving up many square feet and any housekeeping/lawn service they pay for to get it. Plus some other things. The European social safety net costs, and it costs the middle class there as well as the rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Newsflash: living in the United States suuuuuucks for 99.9% of people. The US is only good for the ultra rich.

Garbage healthcare unless rich
Garbage education unless rich
Garbage infrastructure
Garbage safety
Garbage housing affordability
Garbage childcare

It's honestly shocking how bad the US is now for the middle class and why so many people in the US roll over and take it because they let the millionaire and billionaire class tell them everything is fine.

Um...ever read any Megan McArdle articles on how the middle class lives in Europe and how small their houses are? How little outside help they can afford to pay for? Sure they get a lot of things from their taxes, but the average American who makes claims like you would be giving up many square feet and any housekeeping/lawn service they pay for to get it. Plus some other things. The European social safety net costs, and it costs the middle class there as well as the rich.

And yet, I seriously doubt they would give up their lifestyle and health care to join our gun addled society.

[Anonymous]

We recently made 7 figures, it's so much money. We're both immigrants too so no family money. We'll be able to retire in less than 10 years while maintaining our current lifestyle indefinitely, own a $2M house @ 6%, pay for daycare, travel extensively, fully funded a child's college fund in one year (5 years of gifts from both parents). You definitely don't need this kind of money to achieve the American dream. With this money you can have the American dream and retire in 20 years.