A massive income required to live the idealized american dream around here?

[Anonymous]

We do everything you mention on under $400k a year, including a SAHP. We started out 17 years ago at $140k. It does not require “seven figures.” Current invested assets (excluding home equity and college funds) are over $3M in our early 40’s.

[Anonymous]

The flip side to this is what does it feel like to be wealthy? Most people coming from middle class or lower class expect perks like never having to clean, cook, do maintenance, yard work. Likely you can do less of this. For example, I’ve hired people to deep clean for 20 years. But I’m still the one getting stains out of my kids’ clothes and making dinner every night. I still call the hospital and go through their bills by line item. You can have 8 figures worth of assets and your actual day-to-day won’t differ much from Clarissa Explains it All or any other TV show about a “typical” middle class family.

What these people do forget in their disappointment of not getting “perks” they thought they would get they still have economic security, choices and luxuries beyond others including healthcare and education.

The problem is Hollywood. And healthcare and education. Hollywood presents a world ignorant of the latter. It also sells an image of the rich being private jet rich, where rich really means able to afford high quality health care, education and relative economic security.

[Anonymous]

It all depends if you are old like genx boomer you can do it on much less because of the safety nets and wealth they accumulated (stole) however the younger generations need 7 figures to catch up because of all the things they took from them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The flip side to this is what does it feel like to be wealthy? Most people coming from middle class or lower class expect perks like never having to clean, cook, do maintenance, yard work. Likely you can do less of this. For example, I’ve hired people to deep clean for 20 years. But I’m still the one getting stains out of my kids’ clothes and making dinner every night. I still call the hospital and go through their bills by line item. You can have 8 figures worth of assets and your actual day-to-day won’t differ much from Clarissa Explains it All or any other TV show about a “typical” middle class family.

What these people do forget in their disappointment of not getting “perks” they thought they would get they still have economic security, choices and luxuries beyond others including healthcare and education.

The problem is Hollywood. And healthcare and education. Hollywood presents a world ignorant of the latter. It also sells an image of the rich being private jet rich, where rich really means able to afford high quality health care, education and relative economic security.

Youve basically stated being rich is what middle class was in the 90s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flip side to this is what does it feel like to be wealthy? Most people coming from middle class or lower class expect perks like never having to clean, cook, do maintenance, yard work. Likely you can do less of this. For example, I’ve hired people to deep clean for 20 years. But I’m still the one getting stains out of my kids’ clothes and making dinner every night. I still call the hospital and go through their bills by line item. You can have 8 figures worth of assets and your actual day-to-day won’t differ much from Clarissa Explains it All or any other TV show about a “typical” middle class family.

What these people do forget in their disappointment of not getting “perks” they thought they would get they still have economic security, choices and luxuries beyond others including healthcare and education.

The problem is Hollywood. And healthcare and education. Hollywood presents a world ignorant of the latter. It also sells an image of the rich being private jet rich, where rich really means able to afford high quality health care, education and relative economic security.

Youve basically stated being rich is what middle class was in the 90s

Sort of. But also I think there was more class separation and less cross-class discussion in the 90s. In the 90s being a multimillionaire was considered rich, but multimillionaires were still cooking, cleaning and driving their kids to school. I think there’s always been a fantasy of wealth as being like nirvana or heaven or this wonderful land of luxe. That really doesn’t match up to the income and assets required for that life.

I do think in the 90s healthcare and education were more manageable. So two teachers might have had more economic security.

It’s really going back to the 40s when two teachers had a life more similar to a CEOs. Keep in mind even then that the CEOs life looked pretty Donna Reed.

We have a messed up idea of how the wealthy live. That confuses what’s going on with the two teachers who are actually middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somewhat recently making 7 figures, having started from humble roots. I am deeply grateful to feel secure financially, assuming I can keep my employment trajectory.

What's crazy is that it seems like you need to make this much around here to feel like you are set with the american dream:

Owning a single family home (and all the upkeep that entails)
Sending kids to college
Saving enough so we can have a (hopefully) financially secure retirement one day
Family vacations
Two cars
Making sure parents are taken care of

I think over time, we should be able to do all of the above relatively comfortably....but shouldn't most of the population? I feel we can only do all of this stuff because of a very high income. What does that say about the expected standard of living in America??

Let me guess...you want us to say

The U.S is on the decline.
Capitalism is bad
Neither party does good for the country
The U.S. is going down a path of destruction that can't be stopped
Americans need to understand their country is terrible.
Why work? You get nothing out of it anyway and it take away from really enjoying life. Just give it all up

We know (your instructions for us)--you astroturfers have been on a rampage the past 2 or 3 week everywhere on the internet with this message

Calm down dude lol....Yes life is more expensive. No the US is not on a decline...are you happy now? Lol

However, due to many factors, some it beyond our control and the result of a more competitive global economy, it has gotten more expensive to achieve the same standard of living today compared to say 20.ywara ago.

[Anonymous]

This reads like a troll.

[Anonymous]

The one big hurdle now, more so since higher interest rates, is home ownership. We bought for 400k about 8 years ago. Now that same house has doubled in price, plus interest rates being so much higher...We could not afford it. And this is a basic burb with cookie cutter houses, an area that used to be very middle class. So I feel terrible for young people starting now with no help. If this were me now, I'd consider a midwest type move near a large city to keep housing costs low at our level of income or lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flip side to this is what does it feel like to be wealthy? Most people coming from middle class or lower class expect perks like never having to clean, cook, do maintenance, yard work. Likely you can do less of this. For example, I’ve hired people to deep clean for 20 years. But I’m still the one getting stains out of my kids’ clothes and making dinner every night. I still call the hospital and go through their bills by line item. You can have 8 figures worth of assets and your actual day-to-day won’t differ much from Clarissa Explains it All or any other TV show about a “typical” middle class family.

What these people do forget in their disappointment of not getting “perks” they thought they would get they still have economic security, choices and luxuries beyond others including healthcare and education.

The problem is Hollywood. And healthcare and education. Hollywood presents a world ignorant of the latter. It also sells an image of the rich being private jet rich, where rich really means able to afford high quality health care, education and relative economic security.

Youve basically stated being rich is what middle class was in the 90s

Sort of. But also I think there was more class separation and less cross-class discussion in the 90s. In the 90s being a multimillionaire was considered rich, but multimillionaires were still cooking, cleaning and driving their kids to school. I think there’s always been a fantasy of wealth as being like nirvana or heaven or this wonderful land of luxe. That really doesn’t match up to the income and assets required for that life.

I do think in the 90s healthcare and education were more manageable. So two teachers might have had more economic security.

It’s really going back to the 40s when two teachers had a life more similar to a CEOs. Keep in mind even then that the CEOs life looked pretty Donna Reed.

We have a messed up idea of how the wealthy live. That confuses what’s going on with the two teachers who are actually middle class.

Sort of? I actually think you overestimate the degree to which people assume wealthy people just have no problems or that everyone who is wealthy lives like a billionaire. But I think most people understand there are degrees of wealth and that the rich neighbor who could afford the nice renovation and put in a pool is not living the way that Taylor Swift lives. I don't think most middle class people think "oh if only I had a million dollars, then I'd never have to work again." Some, sure. Most people understand it doesn't work that way.

I think more broadly our culture is sort of broken in terms of what we value, and this results in a divide between (1) what signifies wealth to other people, and (2) what wealth actually is. Our hyper-capitalist, hyper-commercialized society is very obsessed with signifiers of wealth, whether designer goods, large homes, nice cars, or access to things like first class. Celebrity culture really exacerbates this and a lot of working and middle class people are obsessed with wealth signifiers and waste a lot of money buying into them so they can "feel" rich. The fervor around travel falls into this as well -- the obsession with traveling to certain places and posting certain kinds of photos to prove you are a certain kind of person.

But in reality, wealth is about security and comfort. Not about branding. Being wealthy means not worrying about being destitute in retirement, knowing if you or one of your kids gets sick, you can afford to get the help you need. It means not having to leverage heavily to afford really good quality, comfortable housing, so not only is your living standard higher but it is impervious to threat -- you don't have to worry about a job loss or a medical emergency risking your access to good quality housing. Sure, as a wealthy person you are still doing laundry, making a lot of your own meals, dealing with mundane tasks. But you do these things from a place of economic comfort and security that makes everything easier. And when you do run into a task that is onerous or stressful, you generally have the option of outsourcing it. Look at these forums -- there is not a single problem on here that couldn't be made easier or simply go away with enough money. Including stuff like family conflicts, mental health issues, etc.

Being rich is not about wearing Gucci and vacationing in Paris. It's about feeling so secure that you don't feel pressure to try and convince other people you are someone who can afford to wear Gucci and vacation in Paris.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We make a quarter of what you make. Probably less than that. We have everything on your list and live quite comfortably. We’re in the DC area with a kid in private school and another in college OOS.

What are you doing with all your money?

I really don't know how you do this, PP, especially if you had two in private school. We pay ~$90k (after tax) tuition for 2 kids. Even without a mortgage, I would be tight on less than $250k (before taxes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Somewhat recently making 7 figures, having started from humble roots. I am deeply grateful to feel secure financially, assuming I can keep my employment trajectory.

What's crazy is that it seems like you need to make this much around here to feel like you are set with the american dream:

Owning a single family home (and all the upkeep that entails)
Sending kids to college
Saving enough so we can have a (hopefully) financially secure retirement one day
Family vacations
Two cars
Making sure parents are taken care of

I think over time, we should be able to do all of the above relatively comfortably....but shouldn't most of the population? I feel we can only do all of this stuff because of a very high income. What does that say about the expected standard of living in America??

We can't believe the bolded, OP, if you start whining that people need 7 figures a year to live the American Dream. Kind of kills your bootstraps origin story

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to do it anywhere nice, you kind of do need high six figures HHI. Yeah of course America is effed. We are run by oligarchs. It’s obvious now that there is no democracy, no choice, no improvement just “value for shareholders”. I wish I could leave.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flip side to this is what does it feel like to be wealthy? Most people coming from middle class or lower class expect perks like never having to clean, cook, do maintenance, yard work. Likely you can do less of this. For example, I’ve hired people to deep clean for 20 years. But I’m still the one getting stains out of my kids’ clothes and making dinner every night. I still call the hospital and go through their bills by line item. You can have 8 figures worth of assets and your actual day-to-day won’t differ much from Clarissa Explains it All or any other TV show about a “typical” middle class family.

What these people do forget in their disappointment of not getting “perks” they thought they would get they still have economic security, choices and luxuries beyond others including healthcare and education.

The problem is Hollywood. And healthcare and education. Hollywood presents a world ignorant of the latter. It also sells an image of the rich being private jet rich, where rich really means able to afford high quality health care, education and relative economic security.

Youve basically stated being rich is what middle class was in the 90s

Not true at all. People are continually increasing their expectations for what a "middle class lifestyle" is. The average sq ft per person in houses has increased substantially since the 90's. https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/housing1.png?x85095

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Somewhat recently making 7 figures, having started from humble roots. I am deeply grateful to feel secure financially, assuming I can keep my employment trajectory.

What's crazy is that it seems like you need to make this much around here to feel like you are set with the american dream:

Owning a single family home (and all the upkeep that entails)
Sending kids to college
Saving enough so we can have a (hopefully) financially secure retirement one day
Family vacations
Two cars
Making sure parents are taken care of

I think over time, we should be able to do all of the above relatively comfortably....but shouldn't most of the population? I feel we can only do all of this stuff because of a very high income. What does that say about the expected standard of living in America??

What’s more disturbing is how much income is required to simply survive above the poverty line in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We make a quarter of what you make. Probably less than that. We have everything on your list and live quite comfortably. We’re in the DC area with a kid in private school and another in college OOS.

What are you doing with all your money?

NP. If you have a kid in college already you probably started all the life things like buying a house and car when they were more affordable and it was easier to get your adult life started.

I live a pretty nice life inside the beltway with kids on a 350k income, but I totally know that being able to buy a starter home in 2012 (when prices were still somewhat low) and then a move up home in 2018 (refinanced to a 2.75% mortgage during COVID) has been a huge part of us being where we are. Also as a longer time fed I’m contributing 1% to FERS vs 4.4% for the newer employees. Also, we had a gap between kids and childcare went WAY up even just between 2017 and 2022.

In general, I think it’s really unhelpful when people with older kids are flippant about expenses today.