A massive income required to live the idealized american dream around here?
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Anonymous
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Somewhat recently making 7 figures, having started from humble roots. I am deeply grateful to feel secure financially, assuming I can keep my employment trajectory.
What's crazy is that it seems like you need to make this much around here to feel like you are set with the american dream: Owning a single family home (and all the upkeep that entails) Sending kids to college Saving enough so we can have a (hopefully) financially secure retirement one day Family vacations Two cars Making sure parents are taken care of I think over time, we should be able to do all of the above relatively comfortably....but shouldn't most of the population? I feel we can only do all of this stuff because of a very high income. What does that say about the expected standard of living in America?? |
Anonymous
| I don’t think you need seven figures but I feel that costs of everything are crushing for young people today. I’d say you can still have the American dream with a combined income of 3O0 K but it is modest and you need to live far out. |
Anonymous
Let me guess...you want us to say The U.S is on the decline. Capitalism is bad Neither party does good for the country The U.S. is going down a path of destruction that can't be stopped Americans need to understand their country is terrible. Why work? You get nothing out of it anyway and it take away from really enjoying life. Just give it all up We know (your instructions for us)--you astroturfers have been on a rampage the past 2 or 3 week everywhere on the internet with this message |
Anonymous
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We make a quarter of what you make. Probably less than that. We have everything on your list and live quite comfortably. We’re in the DC area with a kid in private school and another in college OOS.
What are you doing with all your money? |
Anonymous
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You might feel that way because you just started making a lot of money and your net worth is relatively low, but if you make >$1m for ten years you should be feeling really secure and flexible by the end of it, unless you go right out and buy a $5m house or something.
If you don’t, you’re doing something dramatically wrong. |
Anonymous
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I get your point but even here you don't need 7 figures to do this. Unless you live in a 2m house bought at 7% with a 20% or less downpayment.
We make about 400K, and relatively recently so. We could do all of those things (granted not private college or college without merit aid, comfortably). |
Anonymous
| If you want to do it anywhere nice, you kind of do need high six figures HHI. Yeah of course America is effed. We are run by oligarchs. It’s obvious now that there is no democracy, no choice, no improvement just “value for shareholders”. I wish I could leave. |
Anonymous
You must have bought your house 20 years ago for a fraction of the cost today and/or send your child to parochial school. This would not be possible for a family starting out today. |
Anonymous
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I haven't the slightest idea why you think that, OP. You need to understand that the American Dream doesn't include a very big house. It means a small house, modest cars, and in-state college. People can definitely afford those things on less than $1m. I don't know why you think it isn't possible. I'm on about $350k and have a row house close to downtown (costs more than a SFH farther out), college and retirement on track, vacations, one car but that's my choice, and can definitely afford to help parents as needed. Bought the house in 2013 but it wasn't cheap even then.
Of course if you are fully supporting all four aging parents that will be expensive. The modern cost of aging was never part of the American Dream because it wasn't like that when the concept was formed. And the American Dream was never to live in an expensive city anyway. It was to live in a town or small regional city. |
Anonymous
Congrats! We have all that (except college) and don’t make seven figures. We have a small house, old cars, driving vacations, and enough to help my parents. Do I want more - yes. Do I have enough - yes. |
Anonymous
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OP is talking about the "idealized" American dream. So not just a SFH but the kind of house that you see on HGTV or in a TV show about a "middle class" family. Not just a couple road trip vacations a year but flights to Florida or the Caribbean or a destination city or Europe. Not just one car but two so no one ever has to worry about sharing a car and they won't be compact, budget vehicles but (at a minimum) small or midsize SUVs. And yes, that kind of lifestyle, in the DC area, requires upper 6 figures into 7 figures.
Unless you have family help which a lot of people do. You can have all of that in a place like St. Louis or Minneapolis or perhaps even Chicago on a lot less, but still waaaaaaay more than people expect when they are first starting out. Housing in particular is so much more expensive than it used to be and that's the separator for people. They are either reaching to get the house they want (or almost the house they want) and living house poor, or they accept that a middle class income is only going to be able to afford you townhouse or small, un-updated SFH in not the best school district. Keep in mind actual middle class incomes are like 70-150k. What this buys you in the DC area is *maybe* a condo or small SFH in a not-great neighborhood (if you are on the upper end of that), bad schools. If you max out your retirement, you will not have much if any left over for college savings. In fact even childcare costs are going to make these extremely tight. Ideally you don't have to have a car if you live near public transit but realistically if you have kids, you need a car -- in this area doctor's visits, school, and pretty much any extra-curricular is going to be tough without at least one vehicle. But it's going to be a budget vehicle, used, basic trim level. And so on. We have this conversation on this forum all the time and it's very tired. Actual middle class people are struggling. What I just described is why inflation has been absolutely brutal for middle class Americans. If you are already struggling to afford housing and transportation, suddenly doubling your grocery bill or watching costs skyrocket for basic home repairs is going to make you feel underwater really fast. Yes, incomes have risen in the last few years, but not fast enough. Plus when you are middle class, you expect an increase in income to help you afford a little more -- start putting away a bit more for college or upgrade to a more reliable vehicle. When instead it just helps you barely keep up with the cost of living, it's very depressing. I am super tired of people making upwards of 300k, much less upwards of a million, whine and complain on these forums about how hard it is for them to afford the "idealized" lifestyle they want. I do not care if your house has walk in closets or if the custom kitchen remodel of your dreams is now just out of reach. Truly, no one does. |
Anonymous
| I think you have to manage your budget and expectations and spend accordingly: I was so fearful of college costs. Turns out my kids will go for nearly free. That can be achieved if low income, with merit, in state...Lots of ways to make it affordable. Same with home ownership. Maybe you can't achieve it in one town, but you can a couple towns over. We make a very small fraction of what you make and don't find it hard, so it's odd you think it takes 7 figures! |
Anonymous
| We have ask that on 300k income. Most of the population does not have even half that income. Most of them didn't go to college. Most don't have employre matched retirement plans (or any retirement). Most don't have savings accounts or investments. Most don't have Healthcare. It's real have and have not. Very sad reality and so far from the American dream |
Anonymous
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Yes, if you buy a home in the most expensive neighborhood, it costs more.
Yes, if your idealized standard of living is the spending of your wealthiest neighbor in the the wealthiest neighborhood, it costs more. Why are people which such high income so low IQ? |
Anonymous
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The original American Dream is to OP's Modern American Dream as a 1950s typical diet is to a modern typical diet.
The later is SUPERSIZED! |