Mingling funds and prenup

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great advice.

The trust was supposed to have enough funds to be self sustaining, but unexpected expenses ate it away.

It they need joint funds, then I need to be treated as a beneficiary of the trust. This is a fight I don't want and it will be ugly. For now I guess I will just.point out that using joint money voids the prenup and see how they react.

Does it? Does it actually say that? You might want to consult an attorney perhaps as part of broader estate planning. I don't tthink it necessarily voids anything, but rather is an argument you would have to make in case of divorce that by putting joint money in, he commingled and that gives you a financial to his portion of the equity in the cabin but it doesn't necessarily override their trust or give you ownership interest in the property. State laws vary of course.

+1. My money is on this being the correct answer vs voiding the prenupt.

Also, how much is this cabin even worth? $15K total or per person might come close to exceeding the value of the asset.

[Anonymous]

This is effectively stealing your retirement and your child’s college fund for your husband’s hobby.

I would see a lawyer immediately about voiding that prenup and creating a postnuptial agreement regarding any funds your husband puts into that house.

[Anonymous]

“I can’t give you my children’s college fund for your cabin.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might want to move to the money or relationship forum.

If you point out it voids the prenup and they were to say “oh well, I guess that’s what it will take” then you’re still stuck with paying marital funds that it sounds like you can’t really afford. Could you start with that conversation with your husband?

Our family sold our multigenerational home 4 years ago and it was painful but financially necessary.

I came from a family that had an emotionally precious summer-only large home. There were no pre-nups about it. Eventually my father and his brother sold it. It's been gone for 24 years.

My sister and I went there every summer for our entire childhood. The sale is a psychic wound for my father and sister. That impacts my mother. I am regretful but our family couldn't have afforded it in our generation. It's been sold twice and the price is about 40% of my net worth for a house with spring water, 30 minutes from a grocery store and hospital, that's not winterized. And I get max 4 weeks of vacation in summer.

OP, you might want to read a book called "The Big House" by George Howe Colt. It describes how special this kind of place can be.

I don't think you should be offended by the pre-nup. Because they were just trying to prevent a forced sale or an unpleasant time sharing agreement up-front. That makes emotional sense to me because these places are psychically irreplaceable.

But I agree you should inform your DH that the pre-nup is voided if your marital money goes into the property.

The economics of this place are likely such that it will have to be sold. And then the profits need to flow back to your DH. At that point, there's really no emotional logic in keeping that money his alone. They need to cut you in if you have to contribute.

How bad was it for my family? My sister booked a vacation in another state at a lake house on a same name lake. Think "Lake Smith". I went on the vacation but it was a crappy lake and I told her it was upsetting rather than a fun coincidence and never to book there again.

Please try to have some understanding for your husband. Just writing this is making me sad. The one thing that's true about these money pits is that they might be the only home that someone's had for their entire life. When my dad sold ours, he got four years of one free week stay written into the deal. So the last year, I went and got to stay in "my house" as redecorated with furnishings formerly owned by my family moved around plus random new owner decor. It was so weird, I stayed only 2 days and then left.

This is OP. This is very close to this situation. They spent their childhood summers here, plus add a tragic parent death which makes any conversation about cost benefit analysis of keeping it in the family a minefield.

I wish we could throw money at it because I would love to.buy myself out of drama. But we have 5 more years of college tuition and no extra money until that is done.

I have received great food for thought- thanks to all who provided insights.

[Anonymous]

If it's really a financial issue then the prenup is a red herring.

[Anonymous]

Do an addendum stating that for any marital money he uses towards the cabin, you will get 50% back + _% for passive growth within 30 days of any separation from (and then list where it will come from) or upon a divorce.

For example, if Husband spends $15,000 on the cabin in 2025 and the parties divorce in 2027, then Wife shall receive $8,100, calculated as $15,000 + (15,000 x 8%)/2 from Husband’s share of the marital estate AFTER all other marital assets are divided 50/50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it's really a financial issue then the prenup is a red herring.

This. If finances weren’t strained, just draw up a quick post nup saying you are matching all funds put towards the cabin into a separate brokerage account that has only yours if you divorce. Ie: if $15k goes to the cabin, $15k also goes into this other account.

The problem is that you don’t have the money, regardless of the prenup.

[Anonymous]

Ask your husband where the $15k would come from. That is a lot of money. You don’t need to do the math for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might want to move to the money or relationship forum.

If you point out it voids the prenup and they were to say “oh well, I guess that’s what it will take” then you’re still stuck with paying marital funds that it sounds like you can’t really afford. Could you start with that conversation with your husband?

Our family sold our multigenerational home 4 years ago and it was painful but financially necessary.

I came from a family that had an emotionally precious summer-only large home. There were no pre-nups about it. Eventually my father and his brother sold it. It's been gone for 24 years.

My sister and I went there every summer for our entire childhood. The sale is a psychic wound for my father and sister. That impacts my mother. I am regretful but our family couldn't have afforded it in our generation. It's been sold twice and the price is about 40% of my net worth for a house with spring water, 30 minutes from a grocery store and hospital, that's not winterized. And I get max 4 weeks of vacation in summer.

OP, you might want to read a book called "The Big House" by George Howe Colt. It describes how special this kind of place can be.

I don't think you should be offended by the pre-nup. Because they were just trying to prevent a forced sale or an unpleasant time sharing agreement up-front. That makes emotional sense to me because these places are psychically irreplaceable.

But I agree you should inform your DH that the pre-nup is voided if your marital money goes into the property.

The economics of this place are likely such that it will have to be sold. And then the profits need to flow back to your DH. At that point, there's really no emotional logic in keeping that money his alone. They need to cut you in if you have to contribute.

How bad was it for my family? My sister booked a vacation in another state at a lake house on a same name lake. Think "Lake Smith". I went on the vacation but it was a crappy lake and I told her it was upsetting rather than a fun coincidence and never to book there again.

Please try to have some understanding for your husband. Just writing this is making me sad. The one thing that's true about these money pits is that they might be the only home that someone's had for their entire life. When my dad sold ours, he got four years of one free week stay written into the deal. So the last year, I went and got to stay in "my house" as redecorated with furnishings formerly owned by my family moved around plus random new owner decor. It was so weird, I stayed only 2 days and then left.

This is OP. This is very close to this situation. They spent their childhood summers here, plus add a tragic parent death which makes any conversation about cost benefit analysis of keeping it in the family a minefield.

I wish we could throw money at it because I would love to.buy myself out of drama. But we have 5 more years of college tuition and no extra money until that is done.

I have received great food for thought- thanks to all who provided insights.

Then this is truly stealing from you.

Sorry, but there’s no way around that fact. Your husband’s family has no issue involving lawyers to keep their assets legally away from you. It’s time for you to say “this isn’t personal, I have to protect myself” line.

Is this cabin worth giving up fubds that would have gone to your children’s college education?

Are you going to sacrifice all vacations for the next ten years to barely keep it afloat?

This is an issue that you need to force NOW.

After your husband spends 15,000, then there’s sunk cost fallacy and stealing from you becomes the new normal. Before you know it, he secretly stops contributing to retirement to pay for a new roof, or electrical and you’ve sunk $100,000 of marital money into a money pit. Then there’s no other option except forcing your kids to take out student loans to cover college. YOU will be paying the price, be it through quality of life decreases or splitting your retirement account with your husband when you finally can’t take it anymore and divorce.

You should quietly see a lawyer about this situation. Then schedule a couple’s counseling session for the two of you to come up with a solution. You writing a blank check and giving up your financial security to avoid an emotional conversation is not an option. You said so yourself, you can’t afford this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might want to move to the money or relationship forum.

If you point out it voids the prenup and they were to say “oh well, I guess that’s what it will take” then you’re still stuck with paying marital funds that it sounds like you can’t really afford. Could you start with that conversation with your husband?

Our family sold our multigenerational home 4 years ago and it was painful but financially necessary.

I came from a family that had an emotionally precious summer-only large home. There were no pre-nups about it. Eventually my father and his brother sold it. It's been gone for 24 years.

My sister and I went there every summer for our entire childhood. The sale is a psychic wound for my father and sister. That impacts my mother. I am regretful but our family couldn't have afforded it in our generation. It's been sold twice and the price is about 40% of my net worth for a house with spring water, 30 minutes from a grocery store and hospital, that's not winterized. And I get max 4 weeks of vacation in summer.

OP, you might want to read a book called "The Big House" by George Howe Colt. It describes how special this kind of place can be.

I don't think you should be offended by the pre-nup. Because they were just trying to prevent a forced sale or an unpleasant time sharing agreement up-front. That makes emotional sense to me because these places are psychically irreplaceable.

But I agree you should inform your DH that the pre-nup is voided if your marital money goes into the property.

The economics of this place are likely such that it will have to be sold. And then the profits need to flow back to your DH. At that point, there's really no emotional logic in keeping that money his alone. They need to cut you in if you have to contribute.

How bad was it for my family? My sister booked a vacation in another state at a lake house on a same name lake. Think "Lake Smith". I went on the vacation but it was a crappy lake and I told her it was upsetting rather than a fun coincidence and never to book there again.

Please try to have some understanding for your husband. Just writing this is making me sad. The one thing that's true about these money pits is that they might be the only home that someone's had for their entire life. When my dad sold ours, he got four years of one free week stay written into the deal. So the last year, I went and got to stay in "my house" as redecorated with furnishings formerly owned by my family moved around plus random new owner decor. It was so weird, I stayed only 2 days and then left.

This is OP. This is very close to this situation. They spent their childhood summers here, plus add a tragic parent death which makes any conversation about cost benefit analysis of keeping it in the family a minefield.

I wish we could throw money at it because I would love to.buy myself out of drama. But we have 5 more years of college tuition and no extra money until that is done.

I have received great food for thought- thanks to all who provided insights.

I'm the poster whose house was sold. I'm more realistic about it because I realize it is an artifact of another era...when affluent women could keep house all summer at a vacation place, when houses didn't have utilities per se, when people didn't care about being close to hospitals in case of emergency, etc.

What forced our sale was my single uncle wanting to cash out (plus he was more and more unwilling to do repairs on the property). And my family's regular house was never closer than 10 hours drive. When my sister and I were older it was clear we wouldn't have much vacation and our spouses wanted to do other things with their vacations.

Is it possible that you can calmly discuss this with the other couple (SIL and BIL)? And maybe with your kids? If you really can't afford it, those are the facts.

[Anonymous]

Another out of the box option is your DH can sell a portion of his ownership to the rest of the family to cover his portion of the repairs. Not sure what it's worth or if the others would be interested. Maybe he can even sell off his entire interest if everyone is so interested in keeping the cabin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: You're an outside for life, watching your husband live a care-free life and knowing you'll have financial security in retirement only if you stay married or make so much that half of your marital assets are enough to retire on. It's a lonely, painful way to live a married life.

This is so very true, my DH has no comprehension of how this feels. He once said, genuinely confused, "You'll be fine so long as you stay in the marriage." That's the reality- painfully unequal exposure. I would not led marital funds go to pay for his asset.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like your family (at least DH and kids) got to use the property for free for about 20 years (if your kids are now college age). That's a pretty huge benefit. How much would it have cost to have rented a vacation house for all of that time? This also sounds like a "hobby" for your DH and it is totally fair for him to get to spend some money on recreation.

If the amount due is more than you can afford as a family, then your DH needs to tell this to his family. But I'd consider small-ish annual contributions equivalent to "rent" for your DH and kids to vacation there. He's not purchasing equity but paying his share of upkeep, which should be less than renting an equivalent property on the rental market (as you'd also be paying towards principal and profit).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might want to move to the money or relationship forum.

If you point out it voids the prenup and they were to say “oh well, I guess that’s what it will take” then you’re still stuck with paying marital funds that it sounds like you can’t really afford. Could you start with that conversation with your husband?

Our family sold our multigenerational home 4 years ago and it was painful but financially necessary.

I came from a family that had an emotionally precious summer-only large home. There were no pre-nups about it. Eventually my father and his brother sold it. It's been gone for 24 years.

My sister and I went there every summer for our entire childhood. The sale is a psychic wound for my father and sister. That impacts my mother. I am regretful but our family couldn't have afforded it in our generation. It's been sold twice and the price is about 40% of my net worth for a house with spring water, 30 minutes from a grocery store and hospital, that's not winterized. And I get max 4 weeks of vacation in summer.

OP, you might want to read a book called "The Big House" by George Howe Colt. It describes how special this kind of place can be.

I don't think you should be offended by the pre-nup. Because they were just trying to prevent a forced sale or an unpleasant time sharing agreement up-front. That makes emotional sense to me because these places are psychically irreplaceable.

But I agree you should inform your DH that the pre-nup is voided if your marital money goes into the property.

The economics of this place are likely such that it will have to be sold. And then the profits need to flow back to your DH. At that point, there's really no emotional logic in keeping that money his alone. They need to cut you in if you have to contribute.

How bad was it for my family? My sister booked a vacation in another state at a lake house on a same name lake. Think "Lake Smith". I went on the vacation but it was a crappy lake and I told her it was upsetting rather than a fun coincidence and never to book there again.

Please try to have some understanding for your husband. Just writing this is making me sad. The one thing that's true about these money pits is that they might be the only home that someone's had for their entire life. When my dad sold ours, he got four years of one free week stay written into the deal. So the last year, I went and got to stay in "my house" as redecorated with furnishings formerly owned by my family moved around plus random new owner decor. It was so weird, I stayed only 2 days and then left.

This is OP. This is very close to this situation. They spent their childhood summers here, plus add a tragic parent death which makes any conversation about cost benefit analysis of keeping it in the family a minefield.

I wish we could throw money at it because I would love to.buy myself out of drama. But we have 5 more years of college tuition and no extra money until that is done.

I have received great food for thought- thanks to all who provided insights.

I'm the poster whose house was sold. I'm more realistic about it because I realize it is an artifact of another era...when affluent women could keep house all summer at a vacation place, when houses didn't have utilities per se, when people didn't care about being close to hospitals in case of emergency, etc.

What forced our sale was my single uncle wanting to cash out (plus he was more and more unwilling to do repairs on the property). And my family's regular house was never closer than 10 hours drive. When my sister and I were older it was clear we wouldn't have much vacation and our spouses wanted to do other things with their vacations.

Is it possible that you can calmly discuss this with the other couple (SIL and BIL)? And maybe with your kids? If you really can't afford it, those are the facts.

You're crazy. This is not stealing in any sense. It may be a hobby he can't afford, but he's basically paying for use of the cabin not equity. Since he's using it, then he's getting the benefit of his payment. If the family can't afford for him to pay his portion of the cost of use of the house, then that needs to be decided. But it's not stealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might want to move to the money or relationship forum.

If you point out it voids the prenup and they were to say “oh well, I guess that’s what it will take” then you’re still stuck with paying marital funds that it sounds like you can’t really afford. Could you start with that conversation with your husband?

Our family sold our multigenerational home 4 years ago and it was painful but financially necessary.

I came from a family that had an emotionally precious summer-only large home. There were no pre-nups about it. Eventually my father and his brother sold it. It's been gone for 24 years.

My sister and I went there every summer for our entire childhood. The sale is a psychic wound for my father and sister. That impacts my mother. I am regretful but our family couldn't have afforded it in our generation. It's been sold twice and the price is about 40% of my net worth for a house with spring water, 30 minutes from a grocery store and hospital, that's not winterized. And I get max 4 weeks of vacation in summer.

OP, you might want to read a book called "The Big House" by George Howe Colt. It describes how special this kind of place can be.

I don't think you should be offended by the pre-nup. Because they were just trying to prevent a forced sale or an unpleasant time sharing agreement up-front. That makes emotional sense to me because these places are psychically irreplaceable.

But I agree you should inform your DH that the pre-nup is voided if your marital money goes into the property.

The economics of this place are likely such that it will have to be sold. And then the profits need to flow back to your DH. At that point, there's really no emotional logic in keeping that money his alone. They need to cut you in if you have to contribute.

How bad was it for my family? My sister booked a vacation in another state at a lake house on a same name lake. Think "Lake Smith". I went on the vacation but it was a crappy lake and I told her it was upsetting rather than a fun coincidence and never to book there again.

Please try to have some understanding for your husband. Just writing this is making me sad. The one thing that's true about these money pits is that they might be the only home that someone's had for their entire life. When my dad sold ours, he got four years of one free week stay written into the deal. So the last year, I went and got to stay in "my house" as redecorated with furnishings formerly owned by my family moved around plus random new owner decor. It was so weird, I stayed only 2 days and then left.

This is OP. This is very close to this situation. They spent their childhood summers here, plus add a tragic parent death which makes any conversation about cost benefit analysis of keeping it in the family a minefield.

I wish we could throw money at it because I would love to.buy myself out of drama. But we have 5 more years of college tuition and no extra money until that is done.

I have received great food for thought- thanks to all who provided insights.

I just can’t with PP’s stupid melodrama.

This. People get far too emotionally attached to these money pit family properties and all it does is lead to drama. I’ve seen it in my own family and it plays out time and time again.

OP, do any of DH’s siblings have spouses? How do they feel about this? Why can’t the ILs put in more funds?