Mingling funds and prenup

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might want to move to the money or relationship forum.

If you point out it voids the prenup and they were to say “oh well, I guess that’s what it will take” then you’re still stuck with paying marital funds that it sounds like you can’t really afford. Could you start with that conversation with your husband?

Our family sold our multigenerational home 4 years ago and it was painful but financially necessary.

I came from a family that had an emotionally precious summer-only large home. There were no pre-nups about it. Eventually my father and his brother sold it. It's been gone for 24 years.

My sister and I went there every summer for our entire childhood. The sale is a psychic wound for my father and sister. That impacts my mother. I am regretful but our family couldn't have afforded it in our generation. It's been sold twice and the price is about 40% of my net worth for a house with spring water, 30 minutes from a grocery store and hospital, that's not winterized. And I get max 4 weeks of vacation in summer.

OP, you might want to read a book called "The Big House" by George Howe Colt. It describes how special this kind of place can be.

I don't think you should be offended by the pre-nup. Because they were just trying to prevent a forced sale or an unpleasant time sharing agreement up-front. That makes emotional sense to me because these places are psychically irreplaceable.

But I agree you should inform your DH that the pre-nup is voided if your marital money goes into the property.

The economics of this place are likely such that it will have to be sold. And then the profits need to flow back to your DH. At that point, there's really no emotional logic in keeping that money his alone. They need to cut you in if you have to contribute.

How bad was it for my family? My sister booked a vacation in another state at a lake house on a same name lake. Think "Lake Smith". I went on the vacation but it was a crappy lake and I told her it was upsetting rather than a fun coincidence and never to book there again.

Please try to have some understanding for your husband. Just writing this is making me sad. The one thing that's true about these money pits is that they might be the only home that someone's had for their entire life. When my dad sold ours, he got four years of one free week stay written into the deal. So the last year, I went and got to stay in "my house" as redecorated with furnishings formerly owned by my family moved around plus random new owner decor. It was so weird, I stayed only 2 days and then left.

This is OP. This is very close to this situation. They spent their childhood summers here, plus add a tragic parent death which makes any conversation about cost benefit analysis of keeping it in the family a minefield.

I wish we could throw money at it because I would love to.buy myself out of drama. But we have 5 more years of college tuition and no extra money until that is done.

I have received great food for thought- thanks to all who provided insights.

I just can’t with PP’s stupid melodrama.

This. People get far too emotionally attached to these money pit family properties and all it does is lead to drama. I’ve seen it in my own family and it plays out time and time again.

OP, do any of DH’s siblings have spouses? How do they feel about this? Why can’t the ILs put in more funds?

It sounds like they're using the property regularly. It's not just being held for sentimental reasons or because of emotional attachment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your pre-nup should have identified a source of non-marital income from your husband to sustain/contribute to this cabin. I’m guessing it did not?

The other way to look at it is that it could benefit your children if it stays in the family and they may end up owning part of it down the road.

You could negotiate that, if your husband gets to siphon $15,000 off of “non-marital” marital money to support the cabin then you also get the same amount to do with as you please that would be considered separate property in the event of a divorce. Probably would need a post-nup to specify this.

That sounds fair although I think they also need to negotiate a hard limit on the amount he will pay towards the cabin.

[Anonymous]

Good luck op.

My family has a similar cabin. Right now it is renting and making a good income, but only because my parents do all the work themselves. As soon as one parent can’t work though we will stop renting. At that point it becomes a huge economic anchor of high taxes and maintenance. Cabin tend to have a lot more cost, maintenance and wear and tear than suburb properties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who the hell cares? It’s $15,000 for something your husband really loves and cares about. Why are you being such a stickler unless you’re considering divorce?

This

$15k, per YEAR, is a lot of family’s entire savings for college, money for vacation, etc. It is a lot of money - whether or not OP is entitled to the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might want to move to the money or relationship forum.

If you point out it voids the prenup and they were to say “oh well, I guess that’s what it will take” then you’re still stuck with paying marital funds that it sounds like you can’t really afford. Could you start with that conversation with your husband?

Our family sold our multigenerational home 4 years ago and it was painful but financially necessary.

I came from a family that had an emotionally precious summer-only large home. There were no pre-nups about it. Eventually my father and his brother sold it. It's been gone for 24 years.

My sister and I went there every summer for our entire childhood. The sale is a psychic wound for my father and sister. That impacts my mother. I am regretful but our family couldn't have afforded it in our generation. It's been sold twice and the price is about 40% of my net worth for a house with spring water, 30 minutes from a grocery store and hospital, that's not winterized. And I get max 4 weeks of vacation in summer.

OP, you might want to read a book called "The Big House" by George Howe Colt. It describes how special this kind of place can be.

I don't think you should be offended by the pre-nup. Because they were just trying to prevent a forced sale or an unpleasant time sharing agreement up-front. That makes emotional sense to me because these places are psychically irreplaceable.

But I agree you should inform your DH that the pre-nup is voided if your marital money goes into the property.

The economics of this place are likely such that it will have to be sold. And then the profits need to flow back to your DH. At that point, there's really no emotional logic in keeping that money his alone. They need to cut you in if you have to contribute.

How bad was it for my family? My sister booked a vacation in another state at a lake house on a same name lake. Think "Lake Smith". I went on the vacation but it was a crappy lake and I told her it was upsetting rather than a fun coincidence and never to book there again.

Please try to have some understanding for your husband. Just writing this is making me sad. The one thing that's true about these money pits is that they might be the only home that someone's had for their entire life. When my dad sold ours, he got four years of one free week stay written into the deal. So the last year, I went and got to stay in "my house" as redecorated with furnishings formerly owned by my family moved around plus random new owner decor. It was so weird, I stayed only 2 days and then left.

This is OP. This is very close to this situation. They spent their childhood summers here, plus add a tragic parent death which makes any conversation about cost benefit analysis of keeping it in the family a minefield.

I wish we could throw money at it because I would love to.buy myself out of drama. But we have 5 more years of college tuition and no extra money until that is done.

I have received great food for thought- thanks to all who provided insights.

I'm the poster whose house was sold. I'm more realistic about it because I realize it is an artifact of another era...when affluent women could keep house all summer at a vacation place, when houses didn't have utilities per se, when people didn't care about being close to hospitals in case of emergency, etc.

What forced our sale was my single uncle wanting to cash out (plus he was more and more unwilling to do repairs on the property). And my family's regular house was never closer than 10 hours drive. When my sister and I were older it was clear we wouldn't have much vacation and our spouses wanted to do other things with their vacations.

Is it possible that you can calmly discuss this with the other couple (SIL and BIL)? And maybe with your kids? If you really can't afford it, those are the facts.

You're crazy. This is not stealing in any sense. It may be a hobby he can't afford, but he's basically paying for use of the cabin not equity. Since he's using it, then he's getting the benefit of his payment. If the family can't afford for him to pay his portion of the cost of use of the house, then that needs to be decided. But it's not stealing.

It is stealing from OP, because it is using her joint marital assets to pay for an asset that is not hers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might want to move to the money or relationship forum.

If you point out it voids the prenup and they were to say “oh well, I guess that’s what it will take” then you’re still stuck with paying marital funds that it sounds like you can’t really afford. Could you start with that conversation with your husband?

Our family sold our multigenerational home 4 years ago and it was painful but financially necessary.

I came from a family that had an emotionally precious summer-only large home. There were no pre-nups about it. Eventually my father and his brother sold it. It's been gone for 24 years.

My sister and I went there every summer for our entire childhood. The sale is a psychic wound for my father and sister. That impacts my mother. I am regretful but our family couldn't have afforded it in our generation. It's been sold twice and the price is about 40% of my net worth for a house with spring water, 30 minutes from a grocery store and hospital, that's not winterized. And I get max 4 weeks of vacation in summer.

OP, you might want to read a book called "The Big House" by George Howe Colt. It describes how special this kind of place can be.

I don't think you should be offended by the pre-nup. Because they were just trying to prevent a forced sale or an unpleasant time sharing agreement up-front. That makes emotional sense to me because these places are psychically irreplaceable.

But I agree you should inform your DH that the pre-nup is voided if your marital money goes into the property.

The economics of this place are likely such that it will have to be sold. And then the profits need to flow back to your DH. At that point, there's really no emotional logic in keeping that money his alone. They need to cut you in if you have to contribute.

How bad was it for my family? My sister booked a vacation in another state at a lake house on a same name lake. Think "Lake Smith". I went on the vacation but it was a crappy lake and I told her it was upsetting rather than a fun coincidence and never to book there again.

Please try to have some understanding for your husband. Just writing this is making me sad. The one thing that's true about these money pits is that they might be the only home that someone's had for their entire life. When my dad sold ours, he got four years of one free week stay written into the deal. So the last year, I went and got to stay in "my house" as redecorated with furnishings formerly owned by my family moved around plus random new owner decor. It was so weird, I stayed only 2 days and then left.

This is OP. This is very close to this situation. They spent their childhood summers here, plus add a tragic parent death which makes any conversation about cost benefit analysis of keeping it in the family a minefield.

I wish we could throw money at it because I would love to.buy myself out of drama. But we have 5 more years of college tuition and no extra money until that is done.

I have received great food for thought- thanks to all who provided insights.

I'm the poster whose house was sold. I'm more realistic about it because I realize it is an artifact of another era...when affluent women could keep house all summer at a vacation place, when houses didn't have utilities per se, when people didn't care about being close to hospitals in case of emergency, etc.

What forced our sale was my single uncle wanting to cash out (plus he was more and more unwilling to do repairs on the property). And my family's regular house was never closer than 10 hours drive. When my sister and I were older it was clear we wouldn't have much vacation and our spouses wanted to do other things with their vacations.

Is it possible that you can calmly discuss this with the other couple (SIL and BIL)? And maybe with your kids? If you really can't afford it, those are the facts.

You're crazy. This is not stealing in any sense. It may be a hobby he can't afford, but he's basically paying for use of the cabin not equity. Since he's using it, then he's getting the benefit of his payment. If the family can't afford for him to pay his portion of the cost of use of the house, then that needs to be decided. But it's not stealing.

It is stealing from OP, because it is using her joint marital assets to pay for an asset that is not hers.

He's not paying for an asset. He's not purchasing equity. He's paying a use fee for his ongoing use. That's like paying for a gym membership or renting a vacation home. He may be paying it to the family trust, but if it's equivalent to or less than the fair market value for his use of the property, then it's just a use fee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might want to move to the money or relationship forum.

If you point out it voids the prenup and they were to say “oh well, I guess that’s what it will take” then you’re still stuck with paying marital funds that it sounds like you can’t really afford. Could you start with that conversation with your husband?

Our family sold our multigenerational home 4 years ago and it was painful but financially necessary.

I came from a family that had an emotionally precious summer-only large home. There were no pre-nups about it. Eventually my father and his brother sold it. It's been gone for 24 years.

My sister and I went there every summer for our entire childhood. The sale is a psychic wound for my father and sister. That impacts my mother. I am regretful but our family couldn't have afforded it in our generation. It's been sold twice and the price is about 40% of my net worth for a house with spring water, 30 minutes from a grocery store and hospital, that's not winterized. And I get max 4 weeks of vacation in summer.

OP, you might want to read a book called "The Big House" by George Howe Colt. It describes how special this kind of place can be.

I don't think you should be offended by the pre-nup. Because they were just trying to prevent a forced sale or an unpleasant time sharing agreement up-front. That makes emotional sense to me because these places are psychically irreplaceable.

But I agree you should inform your DH that the pre-nup is voided if your marital money goes into the property.

The economics of this place are likely such that it will have to be sold. And then the profits need to flow back to your DH. At that point, there's really no emotional logic in keeping that money his alone. They need to cut you in if you have to contribute.

How bad was it for my family? My sister booked a vacation in another state at a lake house on a same name lake. Think "Lake Smith". I went on the vacation but it was a crappy lake and I told her it was upsetting rather than a fun coincidence and never to book there again.

Please try to have some understanding for your husband. Just writing this is making me sad. The one thing that's true about these money pits is that they might be the only home that someone's had for their entire life. When my dad sold ours, he got four years of one free week stay written into the deal. So the last year, I went and got to stay in "my house" as redecorated with furnishings formerly owned by my family moved around plus random new owner decor. It was so weird, I stayed only 2 days and then left.

This is OP. This is very close to this situation. They spent their childhood summers here, plus add a tragic parent death which makes any conversation about cost benefit analysis of keeping it in the family a minefield.

I wish we could throw money at it because I would love to.buy myself out of drama. But we have 5 more years of college tuition and no extra money until that is done.

I have received great food for thought- thanks to all who provided insights.

I just can’t with PP’s stupid melodrama.

This. People get far too emotionally attached to these money pit family properties and all it does is lead to drama. I’ve seen it in my own family and it plays out time and time again.

OP, do any of DH’s siblings have spouses? How do they feel about this? Why can’t the ILs put in more funds?

It sounds like they're using the property regularly. It's not just being held for sentimental reasons or because of emotional attachment.

But if they can't afford it, they can't afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You might want to move to the money or relationship forum.

If you point out it voids the prenup and they were to say “oh well, I guess that’s what it will take” then you’re still stuck with paying marital funds that it sounds like you can’t really afford. Could you start with that conversation with your husband?

Our family sold our multigenerational home 4 years ago and it was painful but financially necessary.

I came from a family that had an emotionally precious summer-only large home. There were no pre-nups about it. Eventually my father and his brother sold it. It's been gone for 24 years.

My sister and I went there every summer for our entire childhood. The sale is a psychic wound for my father and sister. That impacts my mother. I am regretful but our family couldn't have afforded it in our generation. It's been sold twice and the price is about 40% of my net worth for a house with spring water, 30 minutes from a grocery store and hospital, that's not winterized. And I get max 4 weeks of vacation in summer.

OP, you might want to read a book called "The Big House" by George Howe Colt. It describes how special this kind of place can be.

I don't think you should be offended by the pre-nup. Because they were just trying to prevent a forced sale or an unpleasant time sharing agreement up-front. That makes emotional sense to me because these places are psychically irreplaceable.

But I agree you should inform your DH that the pre-nup is voided if your marital money goes into the property.

The economics of this place are likely such that it will have to be sold. And then the profits need to flow back to your DH. At that point, there's really no emotional logic in keeping that money his alone. They need to cut you in if you have to contribute.

How bad was it for my family? My sister booked a vacation in another state at a lake house on a same name lake. Think "Lake Smith". I went on the vacation but it was a crappy lake and I told her it was upsetting rather than a fun coincidence and never to book there again.

Please try to have some understanding for your husband. Just writing this is making me sad. The one thing that's true about these money pits is that they might be the only home that someone's had for their entire life. When my dad sold ours, he got four years of one free week stay written into the deal. So the last year, I went and got to stay in "my house" as redecorated with furnishings formerly owned by my family moved around plus random new owner decor. It was so weird, I stayed only 2 days and then left.

This is OP. This is very close to this situation. They spent their childhood summers here, plus add a tragic parent death which makes any conversation about cost benefit analysis of keeping it in the family a minefield.

I wish we could throw money at it because I would love to.buy myself out of drama. But we have 5 more years of college tuition and no extra money until that is done.

I have received great food for thought- thanks to all who provided insights.

I just can’t with PP’s stupid melodrama.

This. People get far too emotionally attached to these money pit family properties and all it does is lead to drama. I’ve seen it in my own family and it plays out time and time again.

OP, do any of DH’s siblings have spouses? How do they feel about this? Why can’t the ILs put in more funds?

It sounds like they're using the property regularly. It's not just being held for sentimental reasons or because of emotional attachment.

But if they can't afford it, they can't afford it.

It sounds like OP thinks that her family can't afford it. It's not clear that the DH thinks the family can't afford it. It also doesn't sound like her DH has had the conversation with his family about if someone else can step up to cover the cost.

We don't have enough info to know.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone mentioned that DH has to pay $15,000 THIS YEAR. What happens next year? Do the other siblings have the money? What happens when one of the siblings can’t afford it anymore. Multiple people owning/paying on a house frequently ends badly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone mentioned that DH has to pay $15,000 THIS YEAR. What happens next year? Do the other siblings have the money? What happens when one of the siblings can’t afford it anymore. Multiple people owning/paying on a house frequently ends badly.

Yeah, it sounds like DH and OP need to sit down and figure out what makes the most sense for their family and this property in the long run. The prenup forced the conversation, but that might be a good thing if the family really can't afford to contribute to the maintenance of the property now and / or in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone mentioned that DH has to pay $15,000 THIS YEAR. What happens next year? Do the other siblings have the money? What happens when one of the siblings can’t afford it anymore. Multiple people owning/paying on a house frequently ends badly.

Yeah, it sounds like DH and OP need to sit down and figure out what makes the most sense for their family and this property in the long run. The prenup forced the conversation, but that might be a good thing if the family really can't afford to contribute to the maintenance of the property now and / or in the future.

+1. It has little to do with the prenup and everything to do with this ongoing family expense that only benefits one member of the family and does not sound like they can actually afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband's family has a cabin in a cold weather locale which has been their nirvana for generations. They asked me to sign a prenuptial agreement so I have no claim on it in a divorce, which I did.

It is held in a trust which also has a bank account which had been funded by ILs. My husband and siblings are trust beneficiaries.

The trust cash has run out and they will need to find funds for property taxes and repairs.

Here is my question - do I push back against my husband using our family money to maintain this cabin I have no claim over?

They wont want to sell. His siblings adore the place and spend summers there. My husband visits a lot. It is a key part of their identities. I haven't been since the kids got busy at home in the summers.

It is too run down to be rented out for revenue.

We have impending college tuitions and no extra cash. It will be at least $15K just for taxes and basics, more if there are major repairs.

Assuming you and your DH are happily married, I would not approach this from the point of view of "prenup and comingling funds," but rather as "does it make sense for your family." Based on the fact that you signed a prenup, I assume you can afford $15k (or is it less because he is splitting it across his siblings) to make your husband happy. If so, sit down with your husband and talk about it. I would not bring up the prenup (but then again, I am happily married, with a successful career of my own).

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband's family has a cabin in a cold weather locale which has been their nirvana for generations. They asked me to sign a prenuptial agreement so I have no claim on it in a divorce, which I did.

It is held in a trust which also has a bank account which had been funded by ILs. My husband and siblings are trust beneficiaries.

The trust cash has run out and they will need to find funds for property taxes and repairs.

Here is my question - do I push back against my husband using our family money to maintain this cabin I have no claim over?

They wont want to sell. His siblings adore the place and spend summers there. My husband visits a lot. It is a key part of their identities. I haven't been since the kids got busy at home in the summers.

It is too run down to be rented out for revenue.

We have impending college tuitions and no extra cash. It will be at least $15K just for taxes and basics, more if there are major repairs.

Assuming you and your DH are happily married, I would not approach this from the point of view of "prenup and comingling funds," but rather as "does it make sense for your family." Based on the fact that you signed a prenup, I assume you can afford $15k (or is it less because he is splitting it across his siblings) to make your husband happy. If so, sit down with your husband and talk about it. I would not bring up the prenup (but then again, I am happily married, with a successful career of my own).

Good luck!

The prenup was for the house and the related trust is now broke. Why would you assume they have the money? OP already said it is a hardship.

[Anonymous]

If there are multiple siblings, are they all paying $15,000. That seems outrageous for taxes. If that is what the taxes are, this property must be worth millions. Nope, not going to be using marital assets for something that you have no claim to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband's family has a cabin in a cold weather locale which has been their nirvana for generations. They asked me to sign a prenuptial agreement so I have no claim on it in a divorce, which I did.

It is held in a trust which also has a bank account which had been funded by ILs. My husband and siblings are trust beneficiaries.

The trust cash has run out and they will need to find funds for property taxes and repairs.

Here is my question - do I push back against my husband using our family money to maintain this cabin I have no claim over?

They wont want to sell. His siblings adore the place and spend summers there. My husband visits a lot. It is a key part of their identities. I haven't been since the kids got busy at home in the summers.

It is too run down to be rented out for revenue.

We have impending college tuitions and no extra cash. It will be at least $15K just for taxes and basics, more if there are major repairs.

Assuming you and your DH are happily married, I would not approach this from the point of view of "prenup and comingling funds," but rather as "does it make sense for your family." Based on the fact that you signed a prenup, I assume you can afford $15k (or is it less because he is splitting it across his siblings) to make your husband happy. If so, sit down with your husband and talk about it. I would not bring up the prenup (but then again, I am happily married, with a successful career of my own).

Good luck!

The prenup was for the house and the related trust is now broke. Why would you assume they have the money? OP already said it is a hardship.

If the family is having a hardship, they sell the property.