What’s the latest with proposed later middle school start time?

[Anonymous]

I don't think buying a trillion more buses just to change start times is worth it when FCPS can't even afford to buy textbooks.

It sucks to get up early for two years, but oh well, that's life. Teaches resilience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, hey, look at this...we're having the EXACT SAME DISCUSSION with the EXACT SAME TALKING POINTS that we had 7 or so years ago when the schedule was first changed to push high school to 8 o'clock.

The superintendent kicked it down the road knowing they wouldn't be hear to deal with it and now we're spinning in the same circles. What should have been happening the last seven years was a financial plan to start purchasing more busses and hiring more drivers. A plan should have been made to have AAP in all local schools by this point so that we could get rid of centers. A plan should have been made to review walking distances, have students opt IN to bussing so we can make accurate routes from the beginning, explore the use of vans for low capacity runs, combine middle and high schools that are nearby, etc, etc.

But nothing was done between then and now and we're back to the same BS. Originally, they tried to make high school last but that would have meant a 930 start and no one wanted that since it meant a 430 dismissal. They tried to shove middle school to the 930 time slot but same complaint. Especially with the massive after school program that exists at the middle and high school level, a 430 release time is insane.

The only solution to get middle school to 8 o'clock is to lower the number of kids who ride busses and then buy more buses based on those new numbers. How crowded are the public busses? Maybe we need to start exploring the use of public transportation being free for students.

Why would they do any of those things if there’s no real desire to change the times?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The solution is easy: Do away with TJ and save all those bus trips for middle schools. It is absolutely ridiculous that FCPS provides buses in McLean for 5-10 kids to travel to and from Annandale every day. Bad for the environment, bad for everyone.

Yeah, how dare we try to nurture our best students.

Well, isn’t this ironic. You just revealed your true colors—‘best students’!

What they meant to say was "most heavily prepped students"

LOL, sour grapes revealed. Sure, let's kill TJ so your weak middle school student can get up an hour later.

Let's kill TJ because every child can thrive in any FCPS high school. There is no need to have a special school for some kids that are going to end up at the same universities as kids from regular old FCPS high schools. If your kid is so brilliant, send him to the local community college - which is where I went for advanced math when I was in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The solution is easy: Do away with TJ and save all those bus trips for middle schools. It is absolutely ridiculous that FCPS provides buses in McLean for 5-10 kids to travel to and from Annandale every day. Bad for the environment, bad for everyone.

Yeah, how dare we try to nurture our best students.

Well, isn’t this ironic. You just revealed your true colors—‘best students’!

What they meant to say was "most heavily prepped students"

LOL, sour grapes revealed. Sure, let's kill TJ so your weak middle school student can get up an hour later.

Let's kill TJ because every child can thrive in any FCPS high school. There is no need to have a special school for some kids that are going to end up at the same universities as kids from regular old FCPS high schools. If your kid is so brilliant, send him to the local community college - which is where I went for advanced math when I was in high school.

If you think FPS is going to shut down one of, if not, THE top high school in America, you are crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think buying a trillion more buses just to change start times is worth it when FCPS can't even afford to buy textbooks.

It sucks to get up early for two years, but oh well, that's life. Teaches resilience.

FCPS spends $$$ on textbooks. They are e-textbooks but they cost the same as print books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The solution is easy: Do away with TJ and save all those bus trips for middle schools. It is absolutely ridiculous that FCPS provides buses in McLean for 5-10 kids to travel to and from Annandale every day. Bad for the environment, bad for everyone.

Yeah, how dare we try to nurture our best students.

Well, isn’t this ironic. You just revealed your true colors—‘best students’!

What they meant to say was "most heavily prepped students"

LOL, sour grapes revealed. Sure, let's kill TJ so your weak middle school student can get up an hour later.

Let's kill TJ because every child can thrive in any FCPS high school. There is no need to have a special school for some kids that are going to end up at the same universities as kids from regular old FCPS high schools. If your kid is so brilliant, send him to the local community college - which is where I went for advanced math when I was in high school.

If you think FPS is going to shut down one of, if not, THE top high school in America, you are crazy.

The fact that it's a Governor's School is a VDOE thing, not an FCPS thing, though FCPS could decide to opt back out of the Governor's School thing. I'm sure Loudoun, Alexandria, and Prince William wouldn't be fighting to take over the northern Virginia science & tech academic year Govenor's School, taking the exta funding from FCPS. Not at all. Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a school district that only provided busses based on need. Try that.

This is what FCPS does. Students within walking distance do not get a bus. Students that are too far to walk need a bus, and they get one. Where metrobus can be used by students, they take that. But mostly it doesn't work for students so they get a regular yellow schoolbus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, hey, look at this...we're having the EXACT SAME DISCUSSION with the EXACT SAME TALKING POINTS that we had 7 or so years ago when the schedule was first changed to push high school to 8 o'clock.

The superintendent kicked it down the road knowing they wouldn't be hear to deal with it and now we're spinning in the same circles. What should have been happening the last seven years was a financial plan to start purchasing more busses and hiring more drivers. A plan should have been made to have AAP in all local schools by this point so that we could get rid of centers. A plan should have been made to review walking distances, have students opt IN to bussing so we can make accurate routes from the beginning, explore the use of vans for low capacity runs, combine middle and high schools that are nearby, etc, etc.

But nothing was done between then and now and we're back to the same BS. Originally, they tried to make high school last but that would have meant a 930 start and no one wanted that since it meant a 430 dismissal. They tried to shove middle school to the 930 time slot but same complaint. Especially with the massive after school program that exists at the middle and high school level, a 430 release time is insane.

The only solution to get middle school to 8 o'clock is to lower the number of kids who ride busses and then buy more buses based on those new numbers. How crowded are the public busses? Maybe we need to start exploring the use of public transportation being free for students.

The funny thing is, removing AAP centers was also recommended by the external task force for AAP equity in 2020 and it seemed for a while like the system was moving towards it, but they stopped. I'm sure many local schools do/would do a great LLIV, but like all things in FCPS it would be amazingly principal dependent (see the horrible "cluster model" some of these ES-es are doing that is proven over and over again to not work) and so people at the poorly done schools would freak out..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a school district that only provided busses based on need. Try that.

What schools in the area have the capacity to run a massive kiss 'n' ride the way school districts like that do? None that I know of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, hey, look at this...we're having the EXACT SAME DISCUSSION with the EXACT SAME TALKING POINTS that we had 7 or so years ago when the schedule was first changed to push high school to 8 o'clock.

The superintendent kicked it down the road knowing they wouldn't be hear to deal with it and now we're spinning in the same circles. What should have been happening the last seven years was a financial plan to start purchasing more busses and hiring more drivers. A plan should have been made to have AAP in all local schools by this point so that we could get rid of centers. A plan should have been made to review walking distances, have students opt IN to bussing so we can make accurate routes from the beginning, explore the use of vans for low capacity runs, combine middle and high schools that are nearby, etc, etc.

But nothing was done between then and now and we're back to the same BS. Originally, they tried to make high school last but that would have meant a 930 start and no one wanted that since it meant a 430 dismissal. They tried to shove middle school to the 930 time slot but same complaint. Especially with the massive after school program that exists at the middle and high school level, a 430 release time is insane.

The only solution to get middle school to 8 o'clock is to lower the number of kids who ride busses and then buy more buses based on those new numbers. How crowded are the public busses? Maybe we need to start exploring the use of public transportation being free for students.

The funny thing is, removing AAP centers was also recommended by the external task force for AAP equity in 2020 and it seemed for a while like the system was moving towards it, but they stopped. I'm sure many local schools do/would do a great LLIV, but like all things in FCPS it would be amazingly principal dependent (see the horrible "cluster model" some of these ES-es are doing that is proven over and over again to not work) and so people at the poorly done schools would freak out..

Yes, the AAP center school program is a very old-fashioned sort of GT program, completely out of step with current progressive views on giftedness (that it is anti-diversity and shouldn't exist). There are many forces, inside and outside of FCPS, that have been trying to kill it for years. They are slowly winning. In another few years, I expect center schools to be closed. It was supposed to happen naturally when Local Level IV was rolled out to every elementary school but parents keep choosing to send their kids to the center schools. Teachers on this thread, and many administrators in FCPS, are frustrated by those parents. Our center school, one of the older larger ones that draws from multiple base schools, has larger and larger AAP classes as parents keep choosing the center school over the base schools. So frustrating to those who want to close the centers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, hey, look at this...we're having the EXACT SAME DISCUSSION with the EXACT SAME TALKING POINTS that we had 7 or so years ago when the schedule was first changed to push high school to 8 o'clock.

The superintendent kicked it down the road knowing they wouldn't be hear to deal with it and now we're spinning in the same circles. What should have been happening the last seven years was a financial plan to start purchasing more busses and hiring more drivers. A plan should have been made to have AAP in all local schools by this point so that we could get rid of centers. A plan should have been made to review walking distances, have students opt IN to bussing so we can make accurate routes from the beginning, explore the use of vans for low capacity runs, combine middle and high schools that are nearby, etc, etc.

But nothing was done between then and now and we're back to the same BS. Originally, they tried to make high school last but that would have meant a 930 start and no one wanted that since it meant a 430 dismissal. They tried to shove middle school to the 930 time slot but same complaint. Especially with the massive after school program that exists at the middle and high school level, a 430 release time is insane.

The only solution to get middle school to 8 o'clock is to lower the number of kids who ride busses and then buy more buses based on those new numbers. How crowded are the public busses? Maybe we need to start exploring the use of public transportation being free for students.

The funny thing is, removing AAP centers was also recommended by the external task force for AAP equity in 2020 and it seemed for a while like the system was moving towards it, but they stopped. I'm sure many local schools do/would do a great LLIV, but like all things in FCPS it would be amazingly principal dependent (see the horrible "cluster model" some of these ES-es are doing that is proven over and over again to not work) and so people at the poorly done schools would freak out..

Yes, the AAP center school program is a very old-fashioned sort of GT program, completely out of step with current progressive views on giftedness (that it is anti-diversity and shouldn't exist). There are many forces, inside and outside of FCPS, that have been trying to kill it for years. They are slowly winning. In another few years, I expect center schools to be closed. It was supposed to happen naturally when Local Level IV was rolled out to every elementary school but parents keep choosing to send their kids to the center schools. Teachers on this thread, and many administrators in FCPS, are frustrated by those parents. Our center school, one of the older larger ones that draws from multiple base schools, has larger and larger AAP classes as parents keep choosing the center school over the base schools. So frustrating to those who want to close the centers!

If there was a self contained LIV option at our base school, I'd have 100% stayed. I didn't want to send DS to the center. But when the two options are "advanced option all day long" or "5 other advanced students in a classroom of 30 where some kids are 2+ years below grade level", it was pretty obvious my kid was just going to become a tutor in our LLIV "cluster model".

As a teacher, the cluster model is impossible to do well.

I did GT as a weekly pullout in elementary school and I remember being everyone else's tutor for 4th/5th/6th grade, after I skipped 3rd because they literally couldn't find time to teach me anything. I am so grateful my child has options that actually give him a nerdy peer group of kids who challenge him. I never had that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, hey, look at this...we're having the EXACT SAME DISCUSSION with the EXACT SAME TALKING POINTS that we had 7 or so years ago when the schedule was first changed to push high school to 8 o'clock.

The superintendent kicked it down the road knowing they wouldn't be hear to deal with it and now we're spinning in the same circles. What should have been happening the last seven years was a financial plan to start purchasing more busses and hiring more drivers. A plan should have been made to have AAP in all local schools by this point so that we could get rid of centers. A plan should have been made to review walking distances, have students opt IN to bussing so we can make accurate routes from the beginning, explore the use of vans for low capacity runs, combine middle and high schools that are nearby, etc, etc.

But nothing was done between then and now and we're back to the same BS. Originally, they tried to make high school last but that would have meant a 930 start and no one wanted that since it meant a 430 dismissal. They tried to shove middle school to the 930 time slot but same complaint. Especially with the massive after school program that exists at the middle and high school level, a 430 release time is insane.

The only solution to get middle school to 8 o'clock is to lower the number of kids who ride busses and then buy more buses based on those new numbers. How crowded are the public busses? Maybe we need to start exploring the use of public transportation being free for students.

The funny thing is, removing AAP centers was also recommended by the external task force for AAP equity in 2020 and it seemed for a while like the system was moving towards it, but they stopped. I'm sure many local schools do/would do a great LLIV, but like all things in FCPS it would be amazingly principal dependent (see the horrible "cluster model" some of these ES-es are doing that is proven over and over again to not work) and so people at the poorly done schools would freak out..

Yes, the AAP center school program is a very old-fashioned sort of GT program, completely out of step with current progressive views on giftedness (that it is anti-diversity and shouldn't exist). There are many forces, inside and outside of FCPS, that have been trying to kill it for years. They are slowly winning. In another few years, I expect center schools to be closed. It was supposed to happen naturally when Local Level IV was rolled out to every elementary school but parents keep choosing to send their kids to the center schools. Teachers on this thread, and many administrators in FCPS, are frustrated by those parents. Our center school, one of the older larger ones that draws from multiple base schools, has larger and larger AAP classes as parents keep choosing the center school over the base schools. So frustrating to those who want to close the centers!

If there was a self contained LIV option at our base school, I'd have 100% stayed. I didn't want to send DS to the center. But when the two options are "advanced option all day long" or "5 other advanced students in a classroom of 30 where some kids are 2+ years below grade level", it was pretty obvious my kid was just going to become a tutor in our LLIV "cluster model".

As a teacher, the cluster model is impossible to do well.

I did GT as a weekly pullout in elementary school and I remember being everyone else's tutor for 4th/5th/6th grade, after I skipped 3rd because they literally couldn't find time to teach me anything. I am so grateful my child has options that actually give him a nerdy peer group of kids who challenge him. I never had that.

I taught at a local level IV school for a couple years as the LLIV teacher for one of the grade levels. Often times they were only a handful of kids that actually qualified for AAP. The rest of the class was made up of level III and II students. The parents were better off, sending their kids to the center where there would be more peers at their level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:nothing has changed and doesn't seem like it will.

Again FCPS doesn't care about what is good for families and kids.

Oh FFS. They don’t have enough bus drivers/busses. I agree it sucks and my current MS has been miserable. But it’s not just a matter of wanting it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think buying a trillion more buses just to change start times is worth it when FCPS can't even afford to buy textbooks.

It sucks to get up early for two years, but oh well, that's life. Teaches resilience.

+1

[Anonymous]

Fairfax could make an effort to make schools more walkable. I lived less than a mile from my DD's elementary school but the sidewalk only went halfway. The street was too busy to walk without a sidewalk so FCPS had to provide an entire bus just for our neighborhood. Such an easy fix.