Send Mom to nursing home?

[Anonymous]

Another option is home health/someone that comes in for several hours or even 24.

[Anonymous]

Full disclosure, I am a sibling that does not live in the family home while my sibling and sibling's entire family have moved in and relegated my aging parents to a small corner of the basement, so I come in with a baggage. I read your fuller explanation and you almost had me.

You are a monster: "servant for 3+ years"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure, I am a sibling that does not live in the family home while my sibling and sibling's entire family have moved in and relegated my aging parents to a small corner of the basement, so I come in with a baggage. I read your fuller explanation and you almost had me.

You are a monster: "servant for 3+ years"

Not OP. Wow, that escalated quickly. Take your baggage someplace else.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of aspects to this, but one thing needs clarification and I have one suggestion for OP to reflect on.

1. Who owns this house? Both legally and in understanding/practice? At the time of whatever happened to the deed, did everybody understand that it was to protect an asset upon death and that it was still mom's home to live in until her death?

2. OP, think hard about whether you are trying to make decisions in your mother's best interest or your own. If you are thinking about your mother's best interest it seems that the answer is to do what is necessary for her to stay in her home OR sell the home so that you have the means to provide the quality and type of facility that she deserves.

[Anonymous]

Do not sell real estate or move assets around without consulting an attorney who knows this area — National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys is a good credential. Do not take lay or amateur advice on Medicaid/nursing home issues.

[Anonymous]

Hi - OP here again.

Yes have already arranged a session with an elder law attorney for after thanksgiving. Need to ensure the life estate and will documents are “clean” depending on which approach we take from here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot keep your mother from returning to the home SHE OWNS. This isn’t your house.

Well, yes you can, if you show that she is incompetent to make her own decisions and take care of herself. Which sounds like the case here.

It's not easy to get an elderly person declared incompetent. You need have a doctor sign off on it, which most are reluctant to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another option is home health/someone that comes in for several hours or even 24.

OP said in their first post that she and her spouse are not comfortable with that. They don't have an extra bedroom for a 24 hour live in, and they don't want random helpers coming in and out (and there would likely be frequent turnover/substitutes.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another option is home health/someone that comes in for several hours or even 24.

OP said in their first post that she and her spouse are not comfortable with that. They don't have an extra bedroom for a 24 hour live in, and they don't want random helpers coming in and out (and there would likely be frequent turnover/substitutes.)

When it comes to these kind of situations, we have to make adjustments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Medicare homes take patients who spend down all their assets, then live there until end of life on the government’s dime.
This means you need to move your family out because the house will have to go. Or that you buy the house at an advantageous price now so it’s not hers on paper.

While you figure this out, hire an aide.

Even if they buy the house at market value wouldn’t it be part of the 5 year look back?

True, OP has to consult an attorney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you everyone for your responses and giving a lot of food for thought.

A few more points that may matter:

-Mom set up a life estate in 2010 - to protect the home (which is her only asset) against the “reach” of any nursing homes etc - precisely the situation we now face. She lives in the house but technically it is owned by my sister and I. Look back period has passed.

-It whenever Mom passes, DH and I will find a way to buy my sister’s share out (approx. $350k) and take full ownership. Sister and I have already agreed on this. Home has been in the family since 1921, good school district etc. so unless there is a disaster, we have no intention to sell.

-There is still a $100k mortgage on the house that DH/ I have been paying with Mom. (She made a dumb decision after dad died to remortgage the house to pay off some debts and “improve” her cash flow). Payments are roughly split 50-50. She has covered taxes while we covered food and utilities. I handle all of her finances to ensure all goes smoothly. Between this, the home refurbishments (more on that below), and being her servant for 3+ years, believe me we have not benefited financially as much as you might think
from all of this.

-The house was a total wreck when we arrived - it’s an old house that needed some TLC anyway. Mom has slight hoarding tendencies and there were several dumpsters of junk that we cleaned out and had taken away. The total spend on refurbishments was at least $100k and many of them were to help Mom - Eg converting bathtub to a walk in shower, redesign her bedroom etc. If she stays here, we may have to do more.

-I returned to work 6 weeks ago. For this month we had actually made plans for her to have meals on wheels get delivered, to be picked up and brought to the community senior center a few days each week etc. So while her situation progressed, I was basically still at home to help during the day. Not an ideal time to start a job, but for my sanity I want to get back into the job market (and we may need to cash anyway…) Yes, perhaps we overestimated her capacities - she seemed to be “getting better” though the scary fall in the driveway has been a reality check.

-Mom remains in rehab (arrived one week ago), and we have until Xmas/New Year to decide on the next step(s).

I’m really impressed with the family/estate planning so far, OP. It sounds like despite current disagreements, everyone was/is pretty much on the same page for the rest.

And I commend you for looking after your mother. People are saying nasty things on here, but I know what it takes and the burden eldercare puts on caregivers. You’re not taking advantage at all in the situation you describe.

Best of luck going forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot keep your mother from returning to the home SHE OWNS. This isn’t your house.

In terms of getting her into a nursing home, Medicaid would require a spend down of all of her assets (including the house) before it would cover anything. I don't see how - in clear conscience - you can keep the house and send her to a sub par nursing home.

The PP above is right - hire helpers for when you are out of the house and put an alarm on her bed. That is the kindest thing to do at this point.

Also, contemplate the values of freedom versus safety. She would probably rather have a modicum of freedom than live a "safe" low quality life at a nursing home.

This is a really important perspective, With aging parents we tend to really focus on that physical safety but your parent may prefer to live a shorter life at home, dying from a fall vs. wasting away at a nursing home. I'd focus on finding good daytime help to start with.

[Anonymous]

Op, I say find a facility. My parents did well and enjoyed the socialization with people their own age. She needs way more care than is appropriate for you to manage. She also needs an electric scooter to get around. Likely Medicare will pay.

I would not aim for a facility where you/and or siblings have to kick-in extra money. There are good people everywhere. Good people work at all kinds of elderly care places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t likely to find a nursing home for $6500 a month. If that’s your
Plan you are going to have to liquidate assets including maybe sell her house.

I think you might want to spend some time looking into what you can find for what you are willing to spend.

they are also not going to find 24/7 care at home for they either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you everyone for your responses and giving a lot of food for thought.

A few more points that may matter:

-Mom set up a life estate in 2010 - to protect the home (which is her only asset) against the “reach” of any nursing homes etc - precisely the situation we now face. She lives in the house but technically it is owned by my sister and I. Look back period has passed.

-It whenever Mom passes, DH and I will find a way to buy my sister’s share out (approx. $350k) and take full ownership. Sister and I have already agreed on this. Home has been in the family since 1921, good school district etc. so unless there is a disaster, we have no intention to sell.

-There is still a $100k mortgage on the house that DH/ I have been paying with Mom. (She made a dumb decision after dad died to remortgage the house to pay off some debts and “improve” her cash flow). Payments are roughly split 50-50. She has covered taxes while we covered food and utilities. I handle all of her finances to ensure all goes smoothly. Between this, the home refurbishments (more on that below), and being her servant for 3+ years, believe me we have not benefited financially as much as you might think
from all of this.

-The house was a total wreck when we arrived - it’s an old house that needed some TLC anyway. Mom has slight hoarding tendencies and there were several dumpsters of junk that we cleaned out and had taken away. The total spend on refurbishments was at least $100k and many of them were to help Mom - Eg converting bathtub to a walk in shower, redesign her bedroom etc. If she stays here, we may have to do more.

-I returned to work 6 weeks ago. For this month we had actually made plans for her to have meals on wheels get delivered, to be picked up and brought to the community senior center a few days each week etc. So while her situation progressed, I was basically still at home to help during the day. Not an ideal time to start a job, but for my sanity I want to get back into the job market (and we may need to cash anyway…) Yes, perhaps we overestimated her capacities - she seemed to be “getting better” though the scary fall in the driveway has been a reality check.

-Mom remains in rehab (arrived one week ago), and we have until Xmas/New Year to decide on the next step(s).

How can your mother have a mortgage on the house if you and your sister are owners?