Pre-algebra in 6th - score cutoffs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 2nd grade Cogat but you can have it re-administered, especially given the impact of COVID on those years for current 5th graders.

Does anyone else’s test explanations not work? I am unrealistically hoping it says something like “we see your kid needs…(blank)” but mine just spins and reloads the title box without content.

APS hasn't readministered it to the current 5th graders, to the best of my understanding. The current 5th graders missed the 2nd grade Cogat testing because schools were closed for COVID. There was a make up screener in spring of 3rd for those who were back part time in person, but not the normal test.

My 5th grader took it last year upon request from us. All kids without a full test can take it again (or they will be given it in middle school anyway).

Ugh, me again - we (parents) requested that our then-4th grader take it. The request was granted. Several students took it with mine. A parent simply needs to request and it will be granted as long as one is not on file.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 2nd grade Cogat but you can have it re-administered, especially given the impact of COVID on those years for current 5th graders.

Does anyone else’s test explanations not work? I am unrealistically hoping it says something like “we see your kid needs…(blank)” but mine just spins and reloads the title box without content.

The test explanation just explains the MAP test. This is what it links to

https://www.apsva.us/assessment/interpreting-boy-scores/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 2nd grade Cogat but you can have it re-administered, especially given the impact of COVID on those years for current 5th graders.

Does anyone else’s test explanations not work? I am unrealistically hoping it says something like “we see your kid needs…(blank)” but mine just spins and reloads the title box without content.

APS hasn't readministered it to the current 5th graders, to the best of my understanding. The current 5th graders missed the 2nd grade Cogat testing because schools were closed for COVID. There was a make up screener in spring of 3rd for those who were back part time in person, but not the normal test.

My 5th grader took it last year upon request from us. All kids without a full test can take it again (or they will be given it in middle school anyway).

Ugh, me again - we (parents) requested that our then-4th grader take it. The request was granted. Several students took it with mine. A parent simply needs to request and it will be granted as long as one is not on file.

For a school district that talks about equity, it's pretty crazy that they'd rely on the Cogat next year for placement if the only kids who have a real score are those with parents who knew to request that their kids specially take the test.

We hadn't requested to have our kid to take it because she's already flagged for gifted in all subjects, so it didn't seem to be necessary. Maybe we should reconsider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea. BUT I will say my kid missed the cut off and I asked him to be placed in pre-algebra anyway. He was placed and his grade for Q1 is 98% and it's his favorite class. So, the cut offs aren't the best predicators for success in the class IMO.

There isn't much difference between Math 6 and Pre-Alg 6-7-8. The big difference happens in 7th grade, when the Pre-Alg 6-7-8 kids move to Intensified Algebra in 7th grade -- which is a high school credit class. In my experience, a lot of the parents who pushed their kids into Pre-Alg 6-7-8 in 6th grade were the same parents who ended up hiring math tutors in 7th grade. APS has the score cutoffs for a reason.

The difference is that you won’t have kids several grade levels behind in pre-algebra.

APS should bring back Math 6 Extended, so there is a middle track. However, the parents pushing their kids into Pre-Alg are slowing down the class for the students who truly need an accelerated math class-- I am talking about the kids who are naturally far above grade level in math (i.e., getting the top scores in the AMC Math competitions and getting 100% in math even with a crappy teacher). It is frustrating for those kids to be in the "fast" math class with students who can only get through it with tutors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 2nd grade Cogat but you can have it re-administered, especially given the impact of COVID on those years for current 5th graders.

Does anyone else’s test explanations not work? I am unrealistically hoping it says something like “we see your kid needs…(blank)” but mine just spins and reloads the title box without content.

APS hasn't readministered it to the current 5th graders, to the best of my understanding. The current 5th graders missed the 2nd grade Cogat testing because schools were closed for COVID. There was a make up screener in spring of 3rd for those who were back part time in person, but not the normal test.

My 5th grader took it last year upon request from us. All kids without a full test can take it again (or they will be given it in middle school anyway).

Ugh, me again - we (parents) requested that our then-4th grader take it. The request was granted. Several students took it with mine. A parent simply needs to request and it will be granted as long as one is not on file.

For a school district that talks about equity, it's pretty crazy that they'd rely on the Cogat next year for placement if the only kids who have a real score are those with parents who knew to request that their kids specially take the test.

We hadn't requested to have our kid to take it because she's already flagged for gifted in all subjects, so it didn't seem to be necessary. Maybe we should reconsider.

Your child must not be 2e. Mine (I’m the one who requested) is 2e, meaning said child looks not bright due to learning challenges but who scored in the 8-9th stanine for all subtexts to everyone’s shock (in the school. We knew that the child was being underestimated). We couldn’t get my child identified without the test. Your kid is probably louder, more confident, reads faster…idk. But I can tell you that the inequity isn’t on your child’s end…it’s on mine, who had to deal with teachers treating said kid like they were dumb before said teachers realized their mistake.

For a school that shouts equity, there is no equity for anyone who doesn’t fit in specific boxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 2nd grade Cogat but you can have it re-administered, especially given the impact of COVID on those years for current 5th graders.

Does anyone else’s test explanations not work? I am unrealistically hoping it says something like “we see your kid needs…(blank)” but mine just spins and reloads the title box without content.

APS hasn't readministered it to the current 5th graders, to the best of my understanding. The current 5th graders missed the 2nd grade Cogat testing because schools were closed for COVID. There was a make up screener in spring of 3rd for those who were back part time in person, but not the normal test.

My 5th grader took it last year upon request from us. All kids without a full test can take it again (or they will be given it in middle school anyway).

Ugh, me again - we (parents) requested that our then-4th grader take it. The request was granted. Several students took it with mine. A parent simply needs to request and it will be granted as long as one is not on file.

For a school district that talks about equity, it's pretty crazy that they'd rely on the Cogat next year for placement if the only kids who have a real score are those with parents who knew to request that their kids specially take the test.

We hadn't requested to have our kid to take it because she's already flagged for gifted in all subjects, so it didn't seem to be necessary. Maybe we should reconsider.

Your child must not be 2e. Mine (I’m the one who requested) is 2e, meaning said child looks not bright due to learning challenges but who scored in the 8-9th stanine for all subtexts to everyone’s shock (in the school. We knew that the child was being underestimated). We couldn’t get my child identified without the test. Your kid is probably louder, more confident, reads faster…idk. But I can tell you that the inequity isn’t on your child’s end…it’s on mine, who had to deal with teachers treating said kid like they were dumb before said teachers realized their mistake.

For a school that shouts equity, there is no equity for anyone who doesn’t fit in specific boxes.

I have no idea what you're going on about. You are clearly paying attention and advocating for your kid. He was tested and identified. The kids who are disadvantaged are the ones who don't have parents who even know there is math placement in 6th and certainly don't know what they have to do to have their kids considered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 2nd grade Cogat but you can have it re-administered, especially given the impact of COVID on those years for current 5th graders.

Does anyone else’s test explanations not work? I am unrealistically hoping it says something like “we see your kid needs…(blank)” but mine just spins and reloads the title box without content.

APS hasn't readministered it to the current 5th graders, to the best of my understanding. The current 5th graders missed the 2nd grade Cogat testing because schools were closed for COVID. There was a make up screener in spring of 3rd for those who were back part time in person, but not the normal test.

My 5th grader took it last year upon request from us. All kids without a full test can take it again (or they will be given it in middle school anyway).

Ugh, me again - we (parents) requested that our then-4th grader take it. The request was granted. Several students took it with mine. A parent simply needs to request and it will be granted as long as one is not on file.

For a school district that talks about equity, it's pretty crazy that they'd rely on the Cogat next year for placement if the only kids who have a real score are those with parents who knew to request that their kids specially take the test.

We hadn't requested to have our kid to take it because she's already flagged for gifted in all subjects, so it didn't seem to be necessary. Maybe we should reconsider.

Your child must not be 2e. Mine (I’m the one who requested) is 2e, meaning said child looks not bright due to learning challenges but who scored in the 8-9th stanine for all subtexts to everyone’s shock (in the school. We knew that the child was being underestimated). We couldn’t get my child identified without the test. Your kid is probably louder, more confident, reads faster…idk. But I can tell you that the inequity isn’t on your child’s end…it’s on mine, who had to deal with teachers treating said kid like they were dumb before said teachers realized their mistake.

For a school that shouts equity, there is no equity for anyone who doesn’t fit in specific boxes.

I have no idea what you're going on about. You are clearly paying attention and advocating for your kid. He was tested and identified. The kids who are disadvantaged are the ones who don't have parents who even know there is math placement in 6th and certainly don't know what they have to do to have their kids considered.

There is inequity in that no one will see that child as gifted if APS doesn’t differentiate until 6th because it’s impossible to get ahead if no one teaches you. This thread started about map tests - the fact is, a kid cannot score past a certain point if they have no idea what a square root symbol looks like, and APS doesn’t reach that at this age, so a 5th grader is potentially artificially capped if they don’t have an invested parent exposing them to novel concepts. That’s the horror of it. But your kid - identified on the basis of her school work without a standardized test - is not getting the short end of the stick. That’s all I was trying to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 2nd grade Cogat but you can have it re-administered, especially given the impact of COVID on those years for current 5th graders.

Does anyone else’s test explanations not work? I am unrealistically hoping it says something like “we see your kid needs…(blank)” but mine just spins and reloads the title box without content.

APS hasn't readministered it to the current 5th graders, to the best of my understanding. The current 5th graders missed the 2nd grade Cogat testing because schools were closed for COVID. There was a make up screener in spring of 3rd for those who were back part time in person, but not the normal test.

My 5th grader took it last year upon request from us. All kids without a full test can take it again (or they will be given it in middle school anyway).

Ugh, me again - we (parents) requested that our then-4th grader take it. The request was granted. Several students took it with mine. A parent simply needs to request and it will be granted as long as one is not on file.

For a school district that talks about equity, it's pretty crazy that they'd rely on the Cogat next year for placement if the only kids who have a real score are those with parents who knew to request that their kids specially take the test.

We hadn't requested to have our kid to take it because she's already flagged for gifted in all subjects, so it didn't seem to be necessary. Maybe we should reconsider.

Your child must not be 2e. Mine (I’m the one who requested) is 2e, meaning said child looks not bright due to learning challenges but who scored in the 8-9th stanine for all subtexts to everyone’s shock (in the school. We knew that the child was being underestimated). We couldn’t get my child identified without the test. Your kid is probably louder, more confident, reads faster…idk. But I can tell you that the inequity isn’t on your child’s end…it’s on mine, who had to deal with teachers treating said kid like they were dumb before said teachers realized their mistake.

For a school that shouts equity, there is no equity for anyone who doesn’t fit in specific boxes.

I have no idea what you're going on about. You are clearly paying attention and advocating for your kid. He was tested and identified. The kids who are disadvantaged are the ones who don't have parents who even know there is math placement in 6th and certainly don't know what they have to do to have their kids considered.

There is inequity in that no one will see that child as gifted if APS doesn’t differentiate until 6th because it’s impossible to get ahead if no one teaches you. This thread started about map tests - the fact is, a kid cannot score past a certain point if they have no idea what a square root symbol looks like, and APS doesn’t reach that at this age, so a 5th grader is potentially artificially capped if they don’t have an invested parent exposing them to novel concepts. That’s the horror of it. But your kid - identified on the basis of her school work without a standardized test - is not getting the short end of the stick. That’s all I was trying to say.

I certainly wasn't complaining about my kid. I just surprised that APS hasn't even thought about equity in the process. It's going to be a bizarre year with no real Cogat scores and the first year using MAP for placement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 2nd grade Cogat but you can have it re-administered, especially given the impact of COVID on those years for current 5th graders.

Does anyone else’s test explanations not work? I am unrealistically hoping it says something like “we see your kid needs…(blank)” but mine just spins and reloads the title box without content.

APS hasn't readministered it to the current 5th graders, to the best of my understanding. The current 5th graders missed the 2nd grade Cogat testing because schools were closed for COVID. There was a make up screener in spring of 3rd for those who were back part time in person, but not the normal test.

My 5th grader took it last year upon request from us. All kids without a full test can take it again (or they will be given it in middle school anyway).

Ugh, me again - we (parents) requested that our then-4th grader take it. The request was granted. Several students took it with mine. A parent simply needs to request and it will be granted as long as one is not on file.

For a school district that talks about equity, it's pretty crazy that they'd rely on the Cogat next year for placement if the only kids who have a real score are those with parents who knew to request that their kids specially take the test.

We hadn't requested to have our kid to take it because she's already flagged for gifted in all subjects, so it didn't seem to be necessary. Maybe we should reconsider.

Your child must not be 2e. Mine (I’m the one who requested) is 2e, meaning said child looks not bright due to learning challenges but who scored in the 8-9th stanine for all subtexts to everyone’s shock (in the school. We knew that the child was being underestimated). We couldn’t get my child identified without the test. Your kid is probably louder, more confident, reads faster…idk. But I can tell you that the inequity isn’t on your child’s end…it’s on mine, who had to deal with teachers treating said kid like they were dumb before said teachers realized their mistake.

For a school that shouts equity, there is no equity for anyone who doesn’t fit in specific boxes.

I have no idea what you're going on about. You are clearly paying attention and advocating for your kid. He was tested and identified. The kids who are disadvantaged are the ones who don't have parents who even know there is math placement in 6th and certainly don't know what they have to do to have their kids considered.

There is inequity in that no one will see that child as gifted if APS doesn’t differentiate until 6th because it’s impossible to get ahead if no one teaches you. This thread started about map tests - the fact is, a kid cannot score past a certain point if they have no idea what a square root symbol looks like, and APS doesn’t reach that at this age, so a 5th grader is potentially artificially capped if they don’t have an invested parent exposing them to novel concepts. That’s the horror of it. But your kid - identified on the basis of her school work without a standardized test - is not getting the short end of the stick. That’s all I was trying to say.

I certainly wasn't complaining about my kid. I just surprised that APS hasn't even thought about equity in the process. It's going to be a bizarre year with no real Cogat scores and the first year using MAP for placement.

They don’t use MAP for placement in isolation. It’s combined with SOL scores and sometimes teacher data

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea. BUT I will say my kid missed the cut off and I asked him to be placed in pre-algebra anyway. He was placed and his grade for Q1 is 98% and it's his favorite class. So, the cut offs aren't the best predicators for success in the class IMO.

There isn't much difference between Math 6 and Pre-Alg 6-7-8. The big difference happens in 7th grade, when the Pre-Alg 6-7-8 kids move to Intensified Algebra in 7th grade -- which is a high school credit class. In my experience, a lot of the parents who pushed their kids into Pre-Alg 6-7-8 in 6th grade were the same parents who ended up hiring math tutors in 7th grade. APS has the score cutoffs for a reason.

The difference is that you won’t have kids several grade levels behind in pre-algebra.

APS should bring back Math 6 Extended, so there is a middle track. However, the parents pushing their kids into Pre-Alg are slowing down the class for the students who truly need an accelerated math class-- I am talking about the kids who are naturally far above grade level in math (i.e., getting the top scores in the AMC Math competitions and getting 100% in math even with a crappy teacher). It is frustrating for those kids to be in the "fast" math class with students who can only get through it with tutors.

This is happening in my kid’s class. He didn’t get a single question wrong first quarter. He’s gifted but not a genius. The teacher isn’t pushing very hard but there are several kids struggling. FWIW there are several kids in the class who started in math 6 and moved up to pre-algebra. I think that’s a better strategy than parent placing a kid who doesn’t meet criteria. Those who are truly ready can catch up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea. BUT I will say my kid missed the cut off and I asked him to be placed in pre-algebra anyway. He was placed and his grade for Q1 is 98% and it's his favorite class. So, the cut offs aren't the best predicators for success in the class IMO.

There isn't much difference between Math 6 and Pre-Alg 6-7-8. The big difference happens in 7th grade, when the Pre-Alg 6-7-8 kids move to Intensified Algebra in 7th grade -- which is a high school credit class. In my experience, a lot of the parents who pushed their kids into Pre-Alg 6-7-8 in 6th grade were the same parents who ended up hiring math tutors in 7th grade. APS has the score cutoffs for a reason.

Do not assume that a family has a math tutor when their child is in advanced math since the child is struggling. It is just as likely that it is an overcrowded class with an over worked teacher who is also dealing with various students of different abilities and disabilities. We want our DC to have a strong basis in their math knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea. BUT I will say my kid missed the cut off and I asked him to be placed in pre-algebra anyway. He was placed and his grade for Q1 is 98% and it's his favorite class. So, the cut offs aren't the best predicators for success in the class IMO.

There isn't much difference between Math 6 and Pre-Alg 6-7-8. The big difference happens in 7th grade, when the Pre-Alg 6-7-8 kids move to Intensified Algebra in 7th grade -- which is a high school credit class. In my experience, a lot of the parents who pushed their kids into Pre-Alg 6-7-8 in 6th grade were the same parents who ended up hiring math tutors in 7th grade. APS has the score cutoffs for a reason.

Do not assume that a family has a math tutor when their child is in advanced math since the child is struggling. It is just as likely that it is an overcrowded class with an over worked teacher who is also dealing with various students of different abilities and disabilities. We want our DC to have a strong basis in their math knowledge.

Well, that’s kind of the point. The advanced math class shouldn’t be full of kids with different abilities. It should be full of the kids who have an extremely high math aptitude, who tested there without parents needing to appeal their placement. Sorry, but kids who need a tutor to handle Algebra 1 in 7th grade shouldn’t be in that class. It’s depriving the top math students in APS from having a chance to accelerate their own learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea. BUT I will say my kid missed the cut off and I asked him to be placed in pre-algebra anyway. He was placed and his grade for Q1 is 98% and it's his favorite class. So, the cut offs aren't the best predicators for success in the class IMO.

There isn't much difference between Math 6 and Pre-Alg 6-7-8. The big difference happens in 7th grade, when the Pre-Alg 6-7-8 kids move to Intensified Algebra in 7th grade -- which is a high school credit class. In my experience, a lot of the parents who pushed their kids into Pre-Alg 6-7-8 in 6th grade were the same parents who ended up hiring math tutors in 7th grade. APS has the score cutoffs for a reason.

Do not assume that a family has a math tutor when their child is in advanced math since the child is struggling. It is just as likely that it is an overcrowded class with an over worked teacher who is also dealing with various students of different abilities and disabilities. We want our DC to have a strong basis in their math knowledge.

Well, that’s kind of the point. The advanced math class shouldn’t be full of kids with different abilities. It should be full of the kids who have an extremely high math aptitude, who tested there without parents needing to appeal their placement. Sorry, but kids who need a tutor to handle Algebra 1 in 7th grade shouldn’t be in that class. It’s depriving the top math students in APS from having a chance to accelerate their own learning.

No, it’s not slowing anyone down. They have a predefined, tight schedule.

It sucks for the kids who shouldn’t be in the class, but the kids who can keep up are fine. There are always extension activities available as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea. BUT I will say my kid missed the cut off and I asked him to be placed in pre-algebra anyway. He was placed and his grade for Q1 is 98% and it's his favorite class. So, the cut offs aren't the best predicators for success in the class IMO.

There isn't much difference between Math 6 and Pre-Alg 6-7-8. The big difference happens in 7th grade, when the Pre-Alg 6-7-8 kids move to Intensified Algebra in 7th grade -- which is a high school credit class. In my experience, a lot of the parents who pushed their kids into Pre-Alg 6-7-8 in 6th grade were the same parents who ended up hiring math tutors in 7th grade. APS has the score cutoffs for a reason.

Do not assume that a family has a math tutor when their child is in advanced math since the child is struggling. It is just as likely that it is an overcrowded class with an over worked teacher who is also dealing with various students of different abilities and disabilities. We want our DC to have a strong basis in their math knowledge.

Well, that’s kind of the point. The advanced math class shouldn’t be full of kids with different abilities. It should be full of the kids who have an extremely high math aptitude, who tested there without parents needing to appeal their placement. Sorry, but kids who need a tutor to handle Algebra 1 in 7th grade shouldn’t be in that class. It’s depriving the top math students in APS from having a chance to accelerate their own learning.

No, it’s not slowing anyone down. :roll: They have a predefined, tight schedule.

It sucks for the kids who shouldn’t be in the class, but the kids who can keep up are fine. There are always extension activities available as well.

But it does slow them down because they have to take time to re-teach then they have to rush later on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea. BUT I will say my kid missed the cut off and I asked him to be placed in pre-algebra anyway. He was placed and his grade for Q1 is 98% and it's his favorite class. So, the cut offs aren't the best predicators for success in the class IMO.

There isn't much difference between Math 6 and Pre-Alg 6-7-8. The big difference happens in 7th grade, when the Pre-Alg 6-7-8 kids move to Intensified Algebra in 7th grade -- which is a high school credit class. In my experience, a lot of the parents who pushed their kids into Pre-Alg 6-7-8 in 6th grade were the same parents who ended up hiring math tutors in 7th grade. APS has the score cutoffs for a reason.

Do not assume that a family has a math tutor when their child is in advanced math since the child is struggling. It is just as likely that it is an overcrowded class with an over worked teacher who is also dealing with various students of different abilities and disabilities. We want our DC to have a strong basis in their math knowledge.

Well, that’s kind of the point. The advanced math class shouldn’t be full of kids with different abilities. It should be full of the kids who have an extremely high math aptitude, who tested there without parents needing to appeal their placement. Sorry, but kids who need a tutor to handle Algebra 1 in 7th grade shouldn’t be in that class. It’s depriving the top math students in APS from having a chance to accelerate their own learning.

No, it’s not slowing anyone down. They have a predefined, tight schedule.

It sucks for the kids who shouldn’t be in the class, but the kids who can keep up are fine. There are always extension activities available as well.

But it does slow them down because they have to take time to re-teach then they have to rush later on

They don’t spend significant time reteaching because they have tight timeline. If kids are struggling in Alg 1 (or 6/7/8, etc) they are expected to come see teachers during wolf time/study hall or after school.