Pre-algebra in 6th - score cutoffs

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand the laments of parent placement watering down the advanced classes. Far fewer kids are in the advanced math classes in middle school now compared to just a few years ago, when APS sharply increased the test scores needed to qualify. Prior to that, algebra in 7th was much more common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m one of the frequent PPs posting a few pages back chiming in again.

I have a 5th grader who has scored at the top (98th percentile+) of every test she’s given, including math inventory, SOLs, MAP, cogat. She is, indeed, bored to tears; she’s never learned anything in math in school. She’s been alternately ignored and randomly targeted for “extension” that teaches her nothing (the extension is a normal curriculum for her at the school she attended before this one). There is no other differentiation: everyone receives the same weak large group instruction, same weak homework. As far as I can see, no kid would know this material well if APS was their only source of math instruction.

My main issue is this: it does no child a great service to do this. My kid will likely go on to pre-algebra next year, which is a combined 6-7-8 year. It cheapens the math 6 material and cheapens the pre-algebra foundation. What would serve my child (and others like her) better is to teach her math 6 now, and have taught her math 5 last year. I don’t agree with the rapid acceleration of the material at the pre-algebra level and I do wonder if it’s the weak base - the weak elementary curriculum plus then cramming math 6/7/8 - that causes issues for Algebra I intensified or beyond.

There is a really huge problem with this approach, and I cannot figure out how the equity sharks have justified this. This isn’t equity at all. Let the kids differentiate earlier and provide the solid base that they need.

That’s my $.02. If we didn’t have the luxury of knowing how to supplement, we would be looking at private schools.

If you want earlier acceleration then move to FCPS. Many parents choose APS to avoid that craziness. There are also more parents complaining about “equity” out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the laments of parent placement watering down the advanced classes. Far fewer kids are in the advanced math classes in middle school now compared to just a few years ago, when APS sharply increased the test scores needed to qualify. Prior to that, algebra in 7th was much more common.

I think it’s great they raised the bar for accelerated math. Too many kids who weren’t ready for it were doing it before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the laments of parent placement watering down the advanced classes. Far fewer kids are in the advanced math classes in middle school now compared to just a few years ago, when APS sharply increased the test scores needed to qualify. Prior to that, algebra in 7th was much more common.

It doesn’t take very many kids who “don’t get it” to slow down a class. I think just like they move some kids up after BOY testing they should move some kids to math 6 after first quarter if they don’t meet grade/testing minimums

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the laments of parent placement watering down the advanced classes. Far fewer kids are in the advanced math classes in middle school now compared to just a few years ago, when APS sharply increased the test scores needed to qualify. Prior to that, algebra in 7th was much more common.

It doesn’t take very many kids who “don’t get it” to slow down a class. I think just like they move some kids up after BOY testing they should move some kids to math 6 after first quarter if they don’t meet grade/testing minimums

They absolutely do move some kids down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the laments of parent placement watering down the advanced classes. Far fewer kids are in the advanced math classes in middle school now compared to just a few years ago, when APS sharply increased the test scores needed to qualify. Prior to that, algebra in 7th was much more common.

I think it’s great they raised the bar for accelerated math. Too many kids who weren’t ready for it were doing it before.

It would be great if they actually provided the enrichment extensions that schools always talk about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the laments of parent placement watering down the advanced classes. Far fewer kids are in the advanced math classes in middle school now compared to just a few years ago, when APS sharply increased the test scores needed to qualify. Prior to that, algebra in 7th was much more common.

I think it’s great they raised the bar for accelerated math. Too many kids who weren’t ready for it were doing it before.

It would be great if they actually provided the enrichment extensions that schools always talk about.

Yes, unfortunately there is a lot of variation between gifted coordinators. Ultimately, if that is really important for you for ES then you should look at FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have seen a large number of students take algebra one in seventh grade. And then burn out in high school. They then end up not taking any math junior and/or senior year.

Again, this seems like over acceleration. And it seems like the students would have been better off waiting to take algebra one in eighth grade.

Several years ago, APS did a longitudinal study looking at kids who took Algebra 2 in 9th grade and seeing where they ended up in 12th. Nearly 100% were still taking math as seniors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen a large number of students take algebra one in seventh grade. And then burn out in high school. They then end up not taking any math junior and/or senior year.

Again, this seems like over acceleration. And it seems like the students would have been better off waiting to take algebra one in eighth grade.

Several years ago, APS did a longitudinal study looking at kids who took Algebra 2 in 9th grade and seeing where they ended up in 12th. Nearly 100% were still taking math as seniors.

These are supposed to be the smart math kids so this doesn’t surprise me. Because they continue to earn east As without a rigorous understanding of the Senior year mathematics offerings in APs. What happens in college/life? My bet is that most of them — who presumably end up at pretty good schools since they’re accelerated — quit math early because they see they aren’t actually any good at math and have no real foundation. How would it hurt them to not accelerate if almost everyone switched gears and most kids took geometry in 9th grade like smart schools? There would be no race to accelerate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate the pressure to accelerate in math early common in APS. It does not serve 99% of the student body long term. How many 3s are there in the BC Calc exam junior year? How many quit this path? How many take advanced math in college? How do they do? The students would be much better served with a stronger base and get to advanced math — if they ever do — in college with a stronger base. This is the track at all the fancy private schools fwiw. APS cannot actually accelerate the 1% who actually do need it and are truly bored without parents screaming about their special kid as well. And of course — equity — APS gives in.

There are multiple reasons why private schools don't generally accelerate. One is that they don't want to have to tell fee-paying parents that their kid doesn't qualify for acceleration. It is politically easier not to offer accelerated math classes to avoid angering some parents. Also, by the end of HS, kids don't look so obviously different in their math enrollments which makes some parents happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen a large number of students take algebra one in seventh grade. And then burn out in high school. They then end up not taking any math junior and/or senior year.

Again, this seems like over acceleration. And it seems like the students would have been better off waiting to take algebra one in eighth grade.

Several years ago, APS did a longitudinal study looking at kids who took Algebra 2 in 9th grade and seeing where they ended up in 12th. Nearly 100% were still taking math as seniors.

These are supposed to be the smart math kids so this doesn’t surprise me. Because they continue to earn east As without a rigorous understanding of the Senior year mathematics offerings in APs. What happens in college/life? My bet is that most of them — who presumably end up at pretty good schools since they’re accelerated — quit math early because they see they aren’t actually any good at math and have no real foundation. How would it hurt them to not accelerate if almost everyone switched gears and most kids took geometry in 9th grade like smart schools? There would be no race to accelerate.

Most? I really doubt that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the pressure to accelerate in math early common in APS. It does not serve 99% of the student body long term. How many 3s are there in the BC Calc exam junior year? How many quit this path? How many take advanced math in college? How do they do? The students would be much better served with a stronger base and get to advanced math — if they ever do — in college with a stronger base. This is the track at all the fancy private schools fwiw. APS cannot actually accelerate the 1% who actually do need it and are truly bored without parents screaming about their special kid as well. And of course — equity — APS gives in.

There are multiple reasons why private schools don't generally accelerate. One is that they don't want to have to tell fee-paying parents that their kid doesn't qualify for acceleration. It is politically easier not to offer accelerated math classes to avoid angering some parents. Also, by the end of HS, kids don't look so obviously different in their math enrollments which makes some parents happy.

It's always the parents with liberal arts degrees who argue for more acceleration. Those of us who actually have STEM degrees know that it's a race to no where. It's far more important to have a deep understanding of the content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the pressure to accelerate in math early common in APS. It does not serve 99% of the student body long term. How many 3s are there in the BC Calc exam junior year? How many quit this path? How many take advanced math in college? How do they do? The students would be much better served with a stronger base and get to advanced math — if they ever do — in college with a stronger base. This is the track at all the fancy private schools fwiw. APS cannot actually accelerate the 1% who actually do need it and are truly bored without parents screaming about their special kid as well. And of course — equity — APS gives in.

There are multiple reasons why private schools don't generally accelerate. One is that they don't want to have to tell fee-paying parents that their kid doesn't qualify for acceleration. It is politically easier not to offer accelerated math classes to avoid angering some parents. Also, by the end of HS, kids don't look so obviously different in their math enrollments which makes some parents happy.

It's always the parents with liberal arts degrees who argue for more acceleration. Those of us who actually have STEM degrees know that it's a race to no where. It's far more important to have a deep understanding of the content.

Look, I gave a STEM degree and wanted my kid in the accelerated class. It had nothing to do with a race to anywhere. It was the right choice for him because he was bored with the speed and content in the other math class. It has worked out really well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the pressure to accelerate in math early common in APS. It does not serve 99% of the student body long term. How many 3s are there in the BC Calc exam junior year? How many quit this path? How many take advanced math in college? How do they do? The students would be much better served with a stronger base and get to advanced math — if they ever do — in college with a stronger base. This is the track at all the fancy private schools fwiw. APS cannot actually accelerate the 1% who actually do need it and are truly bored without parents screaming about their special kid as well. And of course — equity — APS gives in.

There are multiple reasons why private schools don't generally accelerate. One is that they don't want to have to tell fee-paying parents that their kid doesn't qualify for acceleration. It is politically easier not to offer accelerated math classes to avoid angering some parents. Also, by the end of HS, kids don't look so obviously different in their math enrollments which makes some parents happy.

I’m not talking about your run of the mill private school. I am talking about the top boarding and day schools in the US. Which do offer accelerated math for kids—way beyond what is offered in APS. They do reserve it for a handful of kids; like the 2-4 who actually need it. So how does that work with your analysis? I am familiar with almost all of them in the area, NYC, and east coast boarding. Cannot speak to West Coast. I am only using it as an example of what time, money and thought could be for a different APS experience. It’s acceleration for no good reason. Everyone in STEM actually understands this as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the pressure to accelerate in math early common in APS. It does not serve 99% of the student body long term. How many 3s are there in the BC Calc exam junior year? How many quit this path? How many take advanced math in college? How do they do? The students would be much better served with a stronger base and get to advanced math — if they ever do — in college with a stronger base. This is the track at all the fancy private schools fwiw. APS cannot actually accelerate the 1% who actually do need it and are truly bored without parents screaming about their special kid as well. And of course — equity — APS gives in.

There are multiple reasons why private schools don't generally accelerate. One is that they don't want to have to tell fee-paying parents that their kid doesn't qualify for acceleration. It is politically easier not to offer accelerated math classes to avoid angering some parents. Also, by the end of HS, kids don't look so obviously different in their math enrollments which makes some parents happy.

I’m not talking about your run of the mill private school. I am talking about the top boarding and day schools in the US. Which do offer accelerated math for kids—way beyond what is offered in APS. They do reserve it for a handful of kids; like the 2-4 who actually need it. So how does that work with your analysis? I am familiar with almost all of them in the area, NYC, and east coast boarding. Cannot speak to West Coast. I am only using it as an example of what time, money and thought could be for a different APS experience. It’s acceleration for no good reason. Everyone in STEM actually understands this as well.

I said privates don't generally accelerate, meaning dedicated accelerated classes. When privates have kids that are very accelerated (2+ years), they let them individually accelerate. They do this because other parents can see that child is several years ahead and therefore don't request similar placement. Privates are less inclined to offer one-year ahead acceleration because then more parents are able to request the same acceleration which opens up the political issues referenced above. Similar arguments for a dedicated year-ahead class. However, that does not mean that moderately accelerated kids would not do well with acceleration, but the political costs of providing that moderate acceleration rise, disinclining private schools from offering it. Which is one reason why you see more private school kids in grade level math than in public schools.