VYS Travel Soccer Bait and Switch-Team Placement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How typical is this? Tryouts, kid gets accepted to a "higher level color team" we pay the travel fee. They say they will continue to assess team placement, solidifying at the end of August. Get our "higher level" team placement end of August, practice commences. 2 weeks later, kid is bumped down to the next level down team. This seems to be happening to a bunch of kids. Is this typical? I feel like it's a bait and switch- get 'em in the club by promising them higher level play, having them forego perhaps other travel team offers and then, JUST KIDDING, you are dropped down. There have been maybe 5 games played in total, and a handful of practices. Whatever happened to making a commitment to coach the players who have committed to you and giving them a runway to improve and for the team to mesh? I get VYS has to try raise their profile by winning, but I was under the impression they were a little more concerned with player development. This is our first year, maybe this is typical at other clubs as well?

If the kid in the "A" (top) team is NOT playing well (lack of skill or understanding of the game, etc...) and there is a better quality skilled player in the "B" team, why not switch them? the coaches should be allow to switch anytime within the season to create competition within the team.
This is TRAVEL soccer, NOT rec, and if the club is get better results at the game they will pull more talent into the club, which will eventually make it a more competitive club, aaand this would benefit the rest of the kids that are in the A team as well. And hopefully the kid that got pull down to the "B" team will get more play time. Everyone wins...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How typical is this? Tryouts, kid gets accepted to a "higher level color team" we pay the travel fee. They say they will continue to assess team placement, solidifying at the end of August. Get our "higher level" team placement end of August, practice commences. 2 weeks later, kid is bumped down to the next level down team. This seems to be happening to a bunch of kids. Is this typical? I feel like it's a bait and switch- get 'em in the club by promising them higher level play, having them forego perhaps other travel team offers and then, JUST KIDDING, you are dropped down. There have been maybe 5 games played in total, and a handful of practices. Whatever happened to making a commitment to coach the players who have committed to you and giving them a runway to improve and for the team to mesh? I get VYS has to try raise their profile by winning, but I was under the impression they were a little more concerned with player development. This is our first year, maybe this is typical at other clubs as well?

If the kid in the "A" (top) team is NOT playing well (lack of skill or understanding of the game, etc...) and there is a better quality skilled player in the "B" team, why not switch them? the coaches should be allow to switch anytime within the season to create competition within the team.
This is TRAVEL soccer, NOT rec, and if the club gets better results at the games, they will pull more talent into the club, which will eventually make it a more competitive club, aaand this would benefit the rest of the kids that are in the A team as well. And hopefully the kid that got pull down to the "B" team will get more play time. Everyone wins...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

It’s a common theme for girls that don’t make the top team in VYS to move over to McLean’s second team with promises of development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

It’s a common theme for girls that don’t make the top team in VYS to move over to McLean’s second team with promises of development.

Yep, Vienna girls played McLean last weekend. The 2011’s tied, the 10s/9s/8s all won by 2 goals each, and the 06’s won by 6 goals. The only Vienna loss was the 07’s, by a single goal.

McLean is an excellent program, and the objective results don’t support the assertions in this thread that Vienna doesn’t develop their girls’ teams and they aren’t competitive.

McLean always has us playing against a couple of former players. Some were not on Phoenix and are now on McLean green, and I’m always happy for them. That said, they usually come in as subs, and McLean seems to play long benches, so PT is limited. Probably still the right move if they are happy with the training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

It’s a common theme for girls that don’t make the top team in VYS to move over to McLean’s second team with promises of development.

They should. McLean's second team plays at a higher level than VYS's second team. That's the crux of small clubs demoting kids. The top team not being a fit doesn't mean the second team will be a fit if the gap is large. That's why parents get upset with the bait and switch. The kid who takes the VYS first team offer may have been sitting on a McLean second team offer and decided to go with the first team offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

It’s a common theme for girls that don’t make the top team in VYS to move over to McLean’s second team with promises of development.

Yep, Vienna girls played McLean last weekend. The 2011’s tied, the 10s/9s/8s all won by 2 goals each, and the 06’s won by 6 goals. The only Vienna loss was the 07’s, by a single goal.

McLean is an excellent program, and the objective results don’t support the assertions in this thread that Vienna doesn’t develop their girls’ teams and they aren’t competitive.

McLean always has us playing against a couple of former players. Some were not on Phoenix and are now on McLean green, and I’m always happy for them. That said, they usually come in as subs, and McLean seems to play long benches, so PT is limited. Probably still the right move if they are happy with the training.

Have you considered that the best McLean 10s/9s/8s are playing for Union which, whatever problems it has, is still far better than Brave?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

It’s a common theme for girls that don’t make the top team in VYS to move over to McLean’s second team with promises of development.

Yep, Vienna girls played McLean last weekend. The 2011’s tied, the 10s/9s/8s all won by 2 goals each, and the 06’s won by 6 goals. The only Vienna loss was the 07’s, by a single goal.

McLean is an excellent program, and the objective results don’t support the assertions in this thread that Vienna doesn’t develop their girls’ teams and they aren’t competitive.

McLean always has us playing against a couple of former players. Some were not on Phoenix and are now on McLean green, and I’m always happy for them. That said, they usually come in as subs, and McLean seems to play long benches, so PT is limited. Probably still the right move if they are happy with the training.

Have you considered that the best McLean 10s/9s/8s are playing for Union which, whatever problems it has, is still far better than Brave?

The Union 10 team is basically the SYC 10 team with a few McLean + outside players. The Brave 10 team is basically the VYS 10 team with a few BRYC + outside players.

Brave has created a far stiffer headwind for VYS girls than Union has created for McLean.

I don’t know the 09 and 08 Union teams well, but the 10 Union team is amazing, and right there with BSC as the best in the area. If they are tied as 1A, VDA and FCV are probably 1B. Brave is right behind them, along with Arlington, followed by Loudoun and most of the rest of ECNL mid-A.

Union 10s may be better than Brave 10s, but I disagree they are “far better”.

[Anonymous]

[list]

Anonymous wrote:Our club formed teams right before the fall season but did not promise anyone a particular team up front. This is bait and switch.

+1. At U9 our club made it clear that the offer did not come with a specific team assignment. They used a few summer practices to finalize team placements in August and told us there would be continued movement throughout the season. And there was. At U10 the offer was for a specific team though movement is still possible if they think a player’s development is such that they should move up or down.

I think the lack of team placement at U9 did sort of trick some parents who didn’t have a great sense of their child’s current ability level. They signed on after getting an offer, thinking their kid would make one of the top teams, and were then surprised that their kid was placed on the 4th or 5th team.

I guess it depends on how many games and practices you’ve had, but it seems early to me to be moving kids around. Our club didn’t move anyone until at least October last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

If that is the experience you have had that’s great, happy for you and your daughter as it sounds wonderful - but that was not the experience for the 2012 or 2014 group. 2012 had a lot of girls leave. 2014s had a whole team leave that they could not replace - let that sink in - a full team of players left after 1 year. No communication around movement, no notice or reason for up/down movement. No development discussions. Babysitting sessions. No real coaching or development. Kick it vertical and try and win it back play style.

[Anonymous]

Have you considered that the best McLean 10s/9s/8s are playing for Union which, whatever problems it has, is still far better than Brave?

10s/9s Union > Brave
08s Brave > Union

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

If that is the experience you have had that’s great, happy for you and your daughter as it sounds wonderful - but that was not the experience for the 2012 or 2014 group. 2012 had a lot of girls leave. 2014s had a whole team leave that they could not replace - let that sink in - a full team of players left after 1 year. No communication around movement, no notice or reason for up/down movement. No development discussions. Babysitting sessions. No real coaching or development. Kick it vertical and try and win it back play style.

My understanding was that the girls’ side had moved to a rotating roster situation for uLittle girls, where the team rosters were chosen game by game, tournament by tournament. The boys’ uLittle side does not do this; teams are set by now.

Is that the case and maybe what is not working? Have the parents been giving feedback?

It seems those of us with older girls had a better uLittle experience with the same coaches. I do agree that while they are nice, they are not great communicators.

It’s completely fine to disagree on play style and development, but as someone who has played with former national team players I didn’t find it was a kick and run style. I actually felt that way about some other VYS coaches, but not the Dutchmen. R played the opposite, and I think sometimes promoted too much passing in the backfield.

The club has a number of former D1 players and even a few former pros that keep their kids there. One would think if the coaching and development was this poor, they would recognize it and switch, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you considered that the best McLean 10s/9s/8s are playing for Union which, whatever problems it has, is still far better than Brave?

10s/9s Union > Brave
08s Brave > Union

Brave 08/09/10 all won their most recent ECNL games against Union while the 06's played to a draw. Only the 07 Union team beat Brave this past spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you considered that the best McLean 10s/9s/8s are playing for Union which, whatever problems it has, is still far better than Brave?

10s/9s Union > Brave
08s Brave > Union

Brave 08/09/10 all won their most recent ECNL games against Union while the 06's played to a draw. Only the 07 Union team beat Brave this past spring.

Impossible to reason with the DCUM Brave hate squad. They are dedicated I give them that.

[Anonymous]

Half of the VYS 2008 Phoenix team is composed of McLean players that left their third team( white). Funny thing is that they still beat McLean green last weekend.