VYS Travel Soccer Bait and Switch-Team Placement?

[Anonymous]

VYS Travel does not develop players and communication is poor. The rec league is top notch, though!

It's interesting to see every single U13-U17 boys team lost to GFR in week 1 of ECNL RL play.

Most BRAVE teams are mediocre, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:VYS Travel does not develop players and communication is poor. The rec league is top notch, though!

It's interesting to see every single U13-U17 boys team lost to GFR in week 1 of ECNL RL play.

Most BRAVE teams are mediocre, too.

This is a result of Brave. With the BRYC boys basically taking their ball and going home after the creation of Brave, VYS boys has to make up the majority of Brave on the boys side as well as the girls. The girls’ side is still strong enough for Phoenix to do well (GFR girls won 1 more game than Vienna girls week 1), but the boys side is not strong enough for Eagles to take that hit.

NVA should be impacting GFR to a lesser degree, but my understanding is that it’s still pretty much all Loudoun players? Their girls’ teams haven’t looked any better so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

If that is the experience you have had that’s great, happy for you and your daughter as it sounds wonderful - but that was not the experience for the 2012 or 2014 group. 2012 had a lot of girls leave. 2014s had a whole team leave that they could not replace - let that sink in - a full team of players left after 1 year. No communication around movement, no notice or reason for up/down movement. No development discussions. Babysitting sessions. No real coaching or development. Kick it vertical and try and win it back play style.

Where did the 12’s and 14’s end up that supposedly left in large numbers? McLean second team, maybe even third, GFR? And the 12’s just beat McLean Green so what does that say for the skill level that left?

I understand if you had an experience that didn’t sit well with you but you’re painting a false narrative.

[Anonymous]

R is a nice guy and flat out ball out, too. I can imagine he is a good personality for these young kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VYS Travel does not develop players and communication is poor. The rec league is top notch, though!

It's interesting to see every single U13-U17 boys team lost to GFR in week 1 of ECNL RL play.

Most BRAVE teams are mediocre, too.

This is a result of Brave. With the BRYC boys basically taking their ball and going home after the creation of Brave, VYS boys has to make up the majority of Brave on the boys side as well as the girls. The girls’ side is still strong enough for Phoenix to do well (GFR girls won 1 more game than Vienna girls week 1), but the boys side is not strong enough for Eagles to take that hit.

NVA should be impacting GFR to a lesser degree, but my understanding is that it’s still pretty much all Loudoun players? Their girls’ teams haven’t looked any better so far.

Def more Loundoun players so the GFR Elite ECNL RL teams are still competitive. They attractive some outsider players + move up from their B teams (NCSL).

You are right on VYS carrying the load for BRAVE. Braddock Road doesn't even have a U13 (2011) ECNL RL team and that BRAVE team is also more VYS. What has happened to BRYC!?... VYS replenished itself with a few NCSL Div 1 and 2 players from other clubs. It's B teams are usually very weak and not good feeders for their Elite/A/Eagle teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

If that is the experience you have had that’s great, happy for you and your daughter as it sounds wonderful - but that was not the experience for the 2012 or 2014 group. 2012 had a lot of girls leave. 2014s had a whole team leave that they could not replace - let that sink in - a full team of players left after 1 year. No communication around movement, no notice or reason for up/down movement. No development discussions. Babysitting sessions. No real coaching or development. Kick it vertical and try and win it back play style.

I think if a player is moved down the assumption should be the other player taking their spot was a better fit. Not sure how much communication is needed there especially at the youngest ages.

The u9/10’s aren’t even given specific team offers. You accept a spot for the age group with the explicit understanding that players can and will be moved around. Whether that’s your cup of tea or not, it’s what you signed on for. If at older ages, did you reach out to the coaching staff? Maybe you didn’t like their answer if you did?

It’s amazing what one or a couple of parents with an axe to grind can do. Like convincing an entire team of second team players to leave and be on a different second or third team. And then leave the new club the very next season, but this time upping the stakes and leaving in the middle of the year, to be on a different second team.

Although not a perfect club by any stretch of the imagination, not sure the problem lies with the club.

[Anonymous]

If the offer was for a specific team, it seems a breach of contract to move player to a different team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How typical is this? Tryouts, kid gets accepted to a "higher level color team" we pay the travel fee. They say they will continue to assess team placement, solidifying at the end of August. Get our "higher level" team placement end of August, practice commences. 2 weeks later, kid is bumped down to the next level down team. This seems to be happening to a bunch of kids. Is this typical? I feel like it's a bait and switch- get 'em in the club by promising them higher level play, having them forego perhaps other travel team offers and then, JUST KIDDING, you are dropped down. There have been maybe 5 games played in total, and a handful of practices. Whatever happened to making a commitment to coach the players who have committed to you and giving them a runway to improve and for the team to mesh? I get VYS has to try raise their profile by winning, but I was under the impression they were a little more concerned with player development. This is our first year, maybe this is typical at other clubs as well?

Moving the strongest kids to the top team is the way you build a stronger team, it’s certainly more efficient to develop players if you group them according to their skill level. You have to move them, even if that movement is within the season. Coaches just have to talk to the parents of the kids that are getting moved so they know why.
If VYS is to reach the competitive level of SYC, Bethesda, Alexandria, etc… they have to make the moves according to skill not anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Half of the VYS 2008 Phoenix team is composed of McLean players that left their third team( white). Funny thing is that they still beat McLean green last weekend.

That’s because one of McLean’s criteria to move a player to their top team is how long has that player been with McLean… not skill. So players end up leaving for clubs that move players up according to skill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How typical is this? Tryouts, kid gets accepted to a "higher level color team" we pay the travel fee. They say they will continue to assess team placement, solidifying at the end of August. Get our "higher level" team placement end of August, practice commences. 2 weeks later, kid is bumped down to the next level down team. This seems to be happening to a bunch of kids. Is this typical? I feel like it's a bait and switch- get 'em in the club by promising them higher level play, having them forego perhaps other travel team offers and then, JUST KIDDING, you are dropped down. There have been maybe 5 games played in total, and a handful of practices. Whatever happened to making a commitment to coach the players who have committed to you and giving them a runway to improve and for the team to mesh? I get VYS has to try raise their profile by winning, but I was under the impression they were a little more concerned with player development. This is our first year, maybe this is typical at other clubs as well?

Moving the strongest kids to the top team is the way you build a stronger team, it’s certainly more efficient to develop players if you group them according to their skill level. You have to move them, even if that movement is within the season. Coaches just have to talk to the parents of the kids that are getting moved so they know why.
If VYS is to reach the competitive level of SYC, Bethesda, Alexandria, etc… they have to make the moves according to skill not anything else.

The club and coaches need to communicate with parents if this is the approach. Most people don’t respond well when the attitude is “because I said so” and “how dare you question us”.

[Anonymous]

How do they move kids around after making offer for specific teams?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

If that is the experience you have had that’s great, happy for you and your daughter as it sounds wonderful - but that was not the experience for the 2012 or 2014 group. 2012 had a lot of girls leave. 2014s had a whole team leave that they could not replace - let that sink in - a full team of players left after 1 year. No communication around movement, no notice or reason for up/down movement. No development discussions. Babysitting sessions. No real coaching or development. Kick it vertical and try and win it back play style.

I think if a player is moved down the assumption should be the other player taking their spot was a better fit. Not sure how much communication is needed there especially at the youngest ages.

The u9/10’s aren’t even given specific team offers. You accept a spot for the age group with the explicit understanding that players can and will be moved around. Whether that’s your cup of tea or not, it’s what you signed on for. If at older ages, did you reach out to the coaching staff? Maybe you didn’t like their answer if you did?

It’s amazing what one or a couple of parents with an axe to grind can do. Like convincing an entire team of second team players to leave and be on a different second or third team. And then leave the new club the very next season, but this time upping the stakes and leaving in the middle of the year, to be on a different second team.

Although not a perfect club by any stretch of the imagination, not sure the problem lies with the club.

So which is it - they are great coaches, or 10 girls left because the age group was weak and 7 girls left because parents had an axe to grind with the worlds greatest coaches?

For my kid’s offer, it was team specific. Movement was done every 2-3 weeks, up or down, with nothing but an age group wide email. Never any feedback to the player or family either way on anything. It was the same in other age groups. Not a single positive thing said to any player over the course of our time in the club. No real helpful coaching insight or feedback. If the club was professional and was paying for their schooling and running proper sessions then fine, but we were paying 2k+ and were just expected to worship at their feet.

If the coaching was even mediocre the attrition would not be so huge. Change is scary and inconvenient, families only leave if it’s bad, especially after just a year. But sure, blame the kids/parents/other clubs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vienna has a long history of not developing players. You would expect that to change with the number of paid staff rather than the old parent coach/trainer model, but the leadership and coaches have been poor, especially for the younger girls.

They talk great a great game and make lots of promises, but there is very little actual development and once you are in they tend to treat you poorly. Communication is awful. There is a reason they have such consistently high attrition compared to other local clubs.

None of this is even close to true. Maybe 5+ years ago, but the coaching is excellent on the uLittle girls’ side, and the teams are very competitive. Vincent and Regi are great.

I didn’t want to bring names into it, but you identified the problem. If they were great they wouldn’t hemorrhage players each year when players get sick of getting moved every two weeks with no explanation or realize that they aren’t progressing while kids at the surrounding clubs are learning and growing (2014s only have 2 teams now - they drove off an entire team’s worth of kids in 1 year). R seems like a nice guy. V is a heck of a talker. I wouldn’t let either of them work with my kids.

Interesting. I think R is about as good as they get. He moved my daughter down, but did it in a kind way, and then later moved her back up.

He’s super positive, a great technical coach, nice guy, runs excellent practices, plays an up-tempo attacking style, etc. I have had a lot of soccer experience as a player and parent and can’t recommend him highly enough.

I can’t speak directly to the 2014 girls, but I have heard it was a weak birth year for VYS girls from the get-go. 2014 boys is a strong year, with 5 teams. The older girls definitely didn’t hemorrhage players at that age - the few who left were the ones who got moved down and didn’t improve.

If that is the experience you have had that’s great, happy for you and your daughter as it sounds wonderful - but that was not the experience for the 2012 or 2014 group. 2012 had a lot of girls leave. 2014s had a whole team leave that they could not replace - let that sink in - a full team of players left after 1 year. No communication around movement, no notice or reason for up/down movement. No development discussions. Babysitting sessions. No real coaching or development. Kick it vertical and try and win it back play style.

I think if a player is moved down the assumption should be the other player taking their spot was a better fit. Not sure how much communication is needed there especially at the youngest ages.

The u9/10’s aren’t even given specific team offers. You accept a spot for the age group with the explicit understanding that players can and will be moved around. Whether that’s your cup of tea or not, it’s what you signed on for. If at older ages, did you reach out to the coaching staff? Maybe you didn’t like their answer if you did?

It’s amazing what one or a couple of parents with an axe to grind can do. Like convincing an entire team of second team players to leave and be on a different second or third team. And then leave the new club the very next season, but this time upping the stakes and leaving in the middle of the year, to be on a different second team.

Although not a perfect club by any stretch of the imagination, not sure the problem lies with the club.

So which is it - they are great coaches, or 10 girls left because the age group was weak and 7 girls left because parents had an axe to grind with the worlds greatest coaches?

For my kid’s offer, it was team specific. Movement was done every 2-3 weeks, up or down, with nothing but an age group wide email. Never any feedback to the player or family either way on anything. It was the same in other age groups. Not a single positive thing said to any player over the course of our time in the club. No real helpful coaching insight or feedback. If the club was professional and was paying for their schooling and running proper sessions then fine, but we were paying 2k+ and were just expected to worship at their feet.

If the coaching was even mediocre the attrition would not be so huge. Change is scary and inconvenient, families only leave if it’s bad, especially after just a year. But sure, blame the kids/parents/other clubs.

What age was your kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:R is a nice guy and flat out ball out, too. I can imagine he is a good personality for these young kids.

Agreed. The young ones need the energy and he definitely brings it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half of the VYS 2008 Phoenix team is composed of McLean players that left their third team( white). Funny thing is that they still beat McLean green last weekend.

That’s because one of McLean’s criteria to move a player to their top team is how long has that player been with McLean… not mainly skill. So players end up leaving for clubs that move players up according to skill.

Agree. I've seen it happen in the boys program...