Another priest arrested

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you have taken the side of defending the Catholic Church on this issue, particularly by use of “whataboutism”, when this topic has literally been litigated multiple times against the church, then you have no moral, legal or ethical ground to stand on.

It’s shocking to me people even bother to try. It’s a bad look.

I would recommend defending by taking responsibility and talking about efforts to change it from within.

Or maybe not responding at all.

Sorry if being told you’re wrong hurts your feelings. The cases against the Church in fact have rarely if ever been litigated. The Church is targeted as a deep pocket by people who make their very comfortable living advancing such claims. The Church pays because, unlike public entities, it is not protected by sovereign immunity or in most cases by damages caps.

As for “efforts to change it from within,” if you had “a moral, ethical or legal ground to stand on,” you’d know that the Catholic Church is the standard setter in child protection practices and has been for quite some time. By way of example, the individual who is the subject of this thread, in addition to being turned over to the police with full cooperation by the relevant diocese in terms of providing access to electronic devices and the like, is already suspended and forbidden to hold himself out or function as a priest (based on allegations alone) and will almost certainly be laicized (fired from the priesthood), very likely even before the criminal proceedings against him have run their course.

Sexual abuse cases are anything but unique to the Catholic Church. What is unique is the level of calumny they generate against an entire religion based on the actions of a few wrongdoers. The motive is obvious, as at least one post in this thread makes clear. People who are uncomfortable about the morality of their own behavior are offended by Church teaching because it makes them feel guilty. By attacking the Church they seek to silence their own inner accusations. It doesn’t work but they keep trying. People without a personal axe to grind don’t feel compelled to attack a millennia old faith and its billions of adherents based on alleged misconduct by a few. I regularly violate the dietary laws of several faiths. I don’t feel guilty at all, because I don’t believe in those laws. Accordingly, I feel no urge to attack either the laws or their adherents.

you have got to be joking. the Catholic Church knowingly and purposefully protected pedophile priests as long as they could get away with it, turning a blind eye or even knowingly sending them back to unsuspecting parishes. it was not “misconduct of a few” - it was institutional policy. and yes, any non-biased person will seriously consider the role that celibacy, the male priesthood, and other Catholic doctrine on sex/sexual orientation had to do in exacerbating the propensity for abuse. it’s not “calumny.” it’s a rot in your church that needs to be rooted out, not excused.

I LOVE how you try to DARVO the righteous claims against the Church (often made by the faithful) and claim that the critics must actually just be projecting their own sexual guilt. That is like *chef’s kiss* realtime example of how you disgusting apologists operated for centuries to silence and cover up. Threaten and ostracize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awf

ul. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

You give them a pass to molest children!?!?!? Shame on you! I think it's the same for all or no religions UNACCEPTABLE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

There is this thing called Google. If you click News at the top you can find a reputable source you trust. Why do you want strangers to do this for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL @ people defending pedophile priests.

How terrible your life must be that you don't care about thousands of abused children at the hands of catholic priests. Disgusting.

+1
This!! Why are people so self righteous in their choices that they will defend some of the most heinous crimes against children. Seriously, something is wrong with society. It's similar mentality to those that followed Hitler to exterminate Jews.....sickening

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Thank you for letting us know you don’t know much of anything about what drives pedophilic behavior and sexual assault in general. Here’s a hint - it’s not about lack of legal appropriate age sex partners.

Consider the Southern Baptist church whose hundreds of heterosexual married clergy have molested hundreds (more likely thousands, because so many never report) of children in their congregations.

Consider the Boy Scouts, whose troop leaders and other volunteers molested 80,000 boys over the years.

Consider all the tens of thousands of kids who get molested at home by dad or mom or grandpa or uncle or sibling - immediate family is undoubtedly the primary source of child molestation and quite clearly vows of celibacy are not at issue.

Please, educate yourself. The Catholic Church has much to be ashamed of for many years to come, but our larger society has covered up more child sexual abuse than it has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

You can start here.

https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.pdf

Ah yes, this is the fig leaf that folks making the claim about non-catholic institutions love to cite. My guess is that they hope people won't actually take the time to read it. Here's what you'll learn if you do read it:

- It's a meta analysis of studies of abuse in ALL schools and educational settings, including Catholic schools and Catholic charitable institutions. E.g. discussing one of the studies reviewed, it says "The results of this study indicated that .3 percent of the respondents had experienced sexual abuse with a professional, a category which included priests, religious leaders, case workers, and teachers." (p.20) And some of the works cited include "Lead us not into temptation: Catholic priests and the sexual abuse of children", "The priest scandal isn’t just about sex.", and "MGH psychologists being investigated in priest abuse scandal. "

- It includes abuse AND MISCONDUCT, specifically anything considered sexual harassment under Title IX, which is a pretty broad category. The introduction calls this out as confusing and a shortcoming of the study, but the author defends that choice because of a desire to include lots of conduct that's inappropriate but often overlooked. Specifically, this includes making sexual jokes, misgendering students, or making comments about students' sexuality -- inappropriate conduct that all of my high school coaches and gym teachers were guilty of by saying things like "OK ladies..." to a boys team at the start of practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL @ people defending pedophile priests.

How terrible your life must be that you don't care about thousands of abused children at the hands of catholic priests. Disgusting.

This is such nonsense. I don’t know of a single Catholic that is or was not completely outraged by the abuse by clergy of (primarily) young boys. The cover up was even worse. The underlying enthusiasm by people posting about these issues seem to derive from the differences with the church teachings on social issues. You can see it in some of the posts above how they pivot from abuse to their differences with church doctrine. Fine. We get it. Doctrine is not going to change. Get rid of sexually deviant priests who seek shelter (and have been for generations now) in the Church and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

I dont GAF about doctrine, I care about an institution that has participated in sexual abuse of children. I care about an institution who gaslit and lied to victims. I care about an institution who knowingly transferred pedophiles from one area to another, further victimizing children. I care about an institution who actively hid, protected and cared more about pedophiles than children in their flock.

There is no defense here. This is an awful institution, and their history of raping children should not be forgotten or glossed over because it happens in other institutions as well. Feebly trying to defend these rapists is really just making the whole church and its followers look even worse.

God bless you. Will pray for you at Mass this Sunday. Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL @ people defending pedophile priests.

How terrible your life must be that you don't care about thousands of abused children at the hands of catholic priests. Disgusting.

This is such nonsense. I don’t know of a single Catholic that is or was not completely outraged by the abuse by clergy of (primarily) young boys. The cover up was even worse. The underlying enthusiasm by people posting about these issues seem to derive from the differences with the church teachings on social issues. You can see it in some of the posts above how they pivot from abuse to their differences with church doctrine. Fine. We get it. Doctrine is not going to change. Get rid of sexually deviant priests who seek shelter (and have been for generations now) in the Church and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

I dont GAF about doctrine, I care about an institution that has participated in sexual abuse of children. I care about an institution who gaslit and lied to victims. I care about an institution who knowingly transferred pedophiles from one area to another, further victimizing children. I care about an institution who actively hid, protected and cared more about pedophiles than children in their flock.

There is no defense here. This is an awful institution, and their history of raping children should not be forgotten or glossed over because it happens in other institutions as well. Feebly trying to defend these rapists is really just making the whole church and its followers look even worse.

God bless you. Will pray for you at Mass this Sunday. Seriously.

I'm an atheist so I'm not sure it will do much good, but go for it.

Pray for me, but please dont ever discount the thousands of children that were raped, molested and then silenced by these church leaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

There is this thing called Google. If you click News at the top you can find a reputable source you trust. Why do you want strangers to do this for you?

Ah, so you don’t have a citation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

Can you point the post you're referring to -- the one that implied that ANY abuse whatsoever is acceptable? What other posters are outraged about is a rich, powerful, global organization -- as a matter of policy and at the highest levels -- actively covering up abuse for decades. Are you denying that happened? Are you asserting that other global organizations did the same? And yes, Sothern Baptists may be in the same league, and I hope with all my heart that they, and any public, private, secular, or religious organization or school that has done similar stuff are investigated with just as much scrutiny as the Catholic church has gotten. Unlike apologists on this thread, I won't be defending any of those organizations, just as my ex-Catholic father doesn't defend the Catholic church.

[Anonymous]

This in today’s headlines: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/sep/06/boy-scouts-america-documentary-netflix

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

Can you point the post you're referring to -- the one that implied that ANY abuse whatsoever is acceptable? What other posters are outraged about is a rich, powerful, global organization -- as a matter of policy and at the highest levels -- actively covering up abuse for decades. Are you denying that happened? Are you asserting that other global organizations did the same? And yes, Sothern Baptists may be in the same league, and I hope with all my heart that they, and any public, private, secular, or religious organization or school that has done similar stuff are investigated with just as much scrutiny as the Catholic church has gotten. Unlike apologists on this thread, I won't be defending any of those organizations, just as my ex-Catholic father doesn't defend the Catholic church.

Oh, you want to talk about the history of the Church and not the topic which is another priest arrested? Why don't you just start your own thread on that topic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

DP. This. Abuse is horrible and I haven't seen a single post here defending it. But where are the posters foaming at the mouth about the larger numbers of victims who were molested by a teacher, coach, doctor, or family member? It seems both bigoted and hypocritical.