Algebra 1 in 5th

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'll give you a different perspective. My 12 year old is taking pre-calculus with zero problems. Not every kid who is accelerated hits a wall in Algebra II or pre-calc. Many thrive with the faster pace and with less boredom.

If your child doesn't attend TJ, he should be able to take AP Calc in 9th, then DE Multivariable and Linear Algebra, and then a couple courses at GMU. AP Stats is also a completely valid option, and unlike many of the STEM oriented kids, your child won't have to waste an elective slot to take it. That would only leave one year where your kid would need a college class.

If your child gets into TJ, there are plenty of math classes there for him. With the new admissions process leading to highly accelerated kids remaining at base high schools, there will likely be additional math offerings for non TJ kids by the time your child reaches high school.

We aren't talking about problems or hitting an intellectual wall. What is the goal here? Why is good and necessary for a young child to be aiming for college before he's old enough to drive?

The goal is to place the child in a level appropriate for his ability, so he isn't bored out of his mind. I have no idea why so many people think it's a good thing for a child to sit in a class for which he has already mastered all of the material and then just twiddle his thumbs for an hour each day.

Because future considerations are just as important as present ones, if not moreso.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I appreciate all of the thoughts given. What is clear to us is that it isn’t an easy situation to navigate. What makes it most challenging, perhaps, is the fact that there are so few other instances of other children and families in the same situation. We were told from the beginning that he is a true outlier. The county has seen a few other children like this, but not many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student who takes algebra 1 in 7th grade will run out of math at my FCPS school. They will have to take senior year classes at NVCC, online, or skip math entirely.

Sorry, I lied, they could take a "gap year" of AP stats somewhere in the calculus track to not run out of math. That buys one more year for the 7th grade algebra student. Most of those kids want to keep going forward though, not side step.

I agree that you need to figure out the path. To get an advanced diploma, kids need 4 years of math IN HIGH SCHOOL, not just 4 years of high school math (please someone correct me if I am mistaken about that). If that is the case, you need to figure out what math classes will be available in high school for your student.

My middle schooler is taking high school math. It doesn't mean "in high school" it means for high school credit. So, if a 7th grade student takes high school math, that counts as one of the 4 credits required.

,PP was correct
Even if your DC takes Algebra I in 5th grade, they still need to take 4 math classes in their four years of high school.

That is absolutely not true. Once they have 4 HS math credits (at any point) they have fulfilled the math criteria for the advanced diploma.

-FCPS high school counselor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'll give you a different perspective. My 12 year old is taking pre-calculus with zero problems. Not every kid who is accelerated hits a wall in Algebra II or pre-calc. Many thrive with the faster pace and with less boredom.

If your child doesn't attend TJ, he should be able to take AP Calc in 9th, then DE Multivariable and Linear Algebra, and then a couple courses at GMU. AP Stats is also a completely valid option, and unlike many of the STEM oriented kids, your child won't have to waste an elective slot to take it. That would only leave one year where your kid would need a college class.

If your child gets into TJ, there are plenty of math classes there for him. With the new admissions process leading to highly accelerated kids remaining at base high schools, there will likely be additional math offerings for non TJ kids by the time your child reaches high school.

We are actually going the other way at my school and removing all the post calc options. The philosophy is that 1) It makes the master schedule impossible to have singleton sections of math courses that only 12 kids enroll in, and 2) the purpose of high school is to teach high school level classes, not 2nd and 3rd year college. Colleges exist for that.

There are certainly ways to get those courses if you are willing to pay, but i don't think most high schools will have enough to keep someone who takes algebra before 7th engaged for 4 years.

Is this an FCPS high school? If so, which one?

Yes FCPS. Don’t want to say which one but the course catalog is going to be a lot shorter next year. Maybe this school is an outlier but it sounds like the push is from higher up. We need more sections of algebra 1-geo-alg 2, and the way to free up teachers is by not running classes of less than 20 students. Right now we have gen Ed algebra 1 sections in the 30s.

[Anonymous]

If kids take classes early, then they can breeze through math classes later, when the other classes are harder.
I'd prefer this to having them take it easy in 5th or 6th grade. This frees up time to work on other classes in 11th and 12th grade, or take other electives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all of the thoughts given. What is clear to us is that it isn’t an easy situation to navigate. What makes it most challenging, perhaps, is the fact that there are so few other instances of other children and families in the same situation. We were told from the beginning that he is a true outlier. The county has seen a few other children like this, but not many.

5th grade algebra isn't that much of an outlier in Fairfax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all of the thoughts given. What is clear to us is that it isn’t an easy situation to navigate. What makes it most challenging, perhaps, is the fact that there are so few other instances of other children and families in the same situation. We were told from the beginning that he is a true outlier. The county has seen a few other children like this, but not many.

5th grade algebra isn't that much of an outlier in Fairfax.

County wide, only a small handful of kids per grade level are jumped ahead more than a year. Being one of the top 3 or 4 kids out of 14,000 would make OP's kid an outlier, but not at all an anomaly for FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'll give you a different perspective. My 12 year old is taking pre-calculus with zero problems. Not every kid who is accelerated hits a wall in Algebra II or pre-calc. Many thrive with the faster pace and with less boredom.

If your child doesn't attend TJ, he should be able to take AP Calc in 9th, then DE Multivariable and Linear Algebra, and then a couple courses at GMU. AP Stats is also a completely valid option, and unlike many of the STEM oriented kids, your child won't have to waste an elective slot to take it. That would only leave one year where your kid would need a college class.

If your child gets into TJ, there are plenty of math classes there for him. With the new admissions process leading to highly accelerated kids remaining at base high schools, there will likely be additional math offerings for non TJ kids by the time your child reaches high school.

We are actually going the other way at my school and removing all the post calc options. The philosophy is that 1) It makes the master schedule impossible to have singleton sections of math courses that only 12 kids enroll in, and 2) the purpose of high school is to teach high school level classes, not 2nd and 3rd year college. Colleges exist for that.

There are certainly ways to get those courses if you are willing to pay, but i don't think most high schools will have enough to keep someone who takes algebra before 7th engaged for 4 years.

Is this an FCPS high school? If so, which one?

Yes FCPS. Don’t want to say which one but the course catalog is going to be a lot shorter next year. Maybe this school is an outlier but it sounds like the push is from higher up. We need more sections of algebra 1-geo-alg 2, and the way to free up teachers is by not running classes of less than 20 students. Right now we have gen Ed algebra 1 sections in the 30s.

Most FCPS high schools should have more than 20 kids taking AP Calc in 11th grade. If this is a general push from the central office for all schools, then it's probably an equity thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all of the thoughts given. What is clear to us is that it isn’t an easy situation to navigate. What makes it most challenging, perhaps, is the fact that there are so few other instances of other children and families in the same situation. We were told from the beginning that he is a true outlier. The county has seen a few other children like this, but not many.

My kid skipped 2 grades in elementary school and took Algebra I in 7th grade when he was 10 and entered HS at 12 and took precalc in 9th and Calc bc in 10th grade. Acceleration does happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all of the thoughts given. What is clear to us is that it isn’t an easy situation to navigate. What makes it most challenging, perhaps, is the fact that there are so few other instances of other children and families in the same situation. We were told from the beginning that he is a true outlier. The county has seen a few other children like this, but not many.

My kid skipped 2 grades in elementary school and took Algebra I in 7th grade when he was 10 and entered HS at 12 and took precalc in 9th and Calc bc in 10th grade. Acceleration does happen.

What exactly is the point you are trying to make? That your child is an outlier? Or that your child, accelerated as he was, was not in fact an outlier? Or because your child did Algebra at 10, the OP’s child is not an outlier?

We know acceleration happens, in math in particular, 6 grades ahead is not unheard of, depending on the child capabilities and how much effort the parents put in, the latter being a stronger determinant factor in my view.

Whatever the reason, Algebra in 5th is an outlier. If you look at typical map scores for Algebra readiness in the general population, you’re talking about top 20% for 8th graders, 5% for 7th graders, 1% for 6th graders and doing a rough extrapolation for 4th grade you get about 4 in 10000, in line with what a previous poster estimated. Again not unheard of but definitely rare enough so the school wouldn’t know how to deal with the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student who takes algebra 1 in 7th grade will run out of math at my FCPS school. They will have to take senior year classes at NVCC, online, or skip math entirely.

Sorry, I lied, they could take a "gap year" of AP stats somewhere in the calculus track to not run out of math. That buys one more year for the 7th grade algebra student. Most of those kids want to keep going forward though, not side step.

I agree that you need to figure out the path. To get an advanced diploma, kids need 4 years of math IN HIGH SCHOOL, not just 4 years of high school math (please someone correct me if I am mistaken about that). If that is the case, you need to figure out what math classes will be available in high school for your student.

High school math teacher again: This actually isn't true. You need 4 math credits, total. They could theoretically all be done before entering high school, but then you'd have to explain on your application to college why you haven't taken math for years and years.

Thank you for clarifying this; it wasn't clear in the information I was provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student who takes algebra 1 in 7th grade will run out of math at my FCPS school. They will have to take senior year classes at NVCC, online, or skip math entirely.

Sorry, I lied, they could take a "gap year" of AP stats somewhere in the calculus track to not run out of math. That buys one more year for the 7th grade algebra student. Most of those kids want to keep going forward though, not side step.

I agree that you need to figure out the path. To get an advanced diploma, kids need 4 years of math IN HIGH SCHOOL, not just 4 years of high school math (please someone correct me if I am mistaken about that). If that is the case, you need to figure out what math classes will be available in high school for your student.

My middle schooler is taking high school math. It doesn't mean "in high school" it means for high school credit. So, if a 7th grade student takes high school math, that counts as one of the 4 credits required.

Thank you. This makes way more sense than what I had been told.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all of the thoughts given. What is clear to us is that it isn’t an easy situation to navigate. What makes it most challenging, perhaps, is the fact that there are so few other instances of other children and families in the same situation. We were told from the beginning that he is a true outlier. The county has seen a few other children like this, but not many.

My kid skipped 2 grades in elementary school and took Algebra I in 7th grade when he was 10 and entered HS at 12 and took precalc in 9th and Calc bc in 10th grade. Acceleration does happen.

If you can share, what college did he go to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student who takes algebra 1 in 7th grade will run out of math at my FCPS school. They will have to take senior year classes at NVCC, online, or skip math entirely.

Sorry, I lied, they could take a "gap year" of AP stats somewhere in the calculus track to not run out of math. That buys one more year for the 7th grade algebra student. Most of those kids want to keep going forward though, not side step.

Have you ever looked at course catalogs? Enough kids take algebra 1 in 7th that FCPS high schools offer linear algebra and multivariable calculus.

But should they? Do you really want your kid learning college level math from a high school teacher? Guess what? Colleges don't.

You mean colleges will prefer that they take those classes in a 100 student+ lecture hall rather than in a class that may have less than a dozen students all of whom are very good at math? I would think the latter would be preferable, but that's just me

That's not the important distinction.

Did you go to high school? And college? And are you keeping in mind that the AP classes our kids are taking are not the AP classes that we took ourselves?

NP... genuinely curious, how are AP classes today different than AP classes ~25 years ago?

[Anonymous]

Algebra in 5th is not unusual in countries outside the US. Parents push their kids harder on math. The US is just behind.