Ivies aren't the best

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been thinking about that thread recently. I have a degree from an Ivy and two graduate degrees from top schools and I make about $130,000 a year as a professor. I am vastly overqualified for my job at a third Tier institution although it works well with my family responsibilities.

My parents were extremely working class and the number one skill that I feel like I did not acquire as a child was the ability to advocate for myself. My parents are very timid and they have never stood up to an employer or asked for anything. The overwhelming sense I had as a child was that life was something that happened to you and I remember being terribly surprised when I figured it out in graduate school, that other people had a vision for where they wanted to end up and that they were working to implement that vision. But to some degree it was already too late for me when I realize that other people had been doing that since they were 16.

A good school can only take you so far if you have no sense of agency or the ability to create their own life, and unfortunately most of us from poor and working class environments do not have that skill

Squandered Ivy here, yes I definitely was extremely deferential to authority. I was terrified of talking to my professors at my Ivy, even though many were very nice, partly because I didn't want them to figure out I didn't belong there (which may or may not have been true!). My GOAL and my parent's goal in life was to go to great college away from my small town -- I had NO inkling of what happened after that, and by the time I figured out what I thought was a decent path, the die was cast for my underwhelming career.

At least as a professor you have a pretty stable career and autonomy; do you get to live in a LCOL college town with good schools, that would be a great benefit!

This is so odd to me. Most of the working class kids at my Ivy were STEM majors who went to med school or into tech. They are killing it now. Why didn’t you do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the wisest comment from that thread:

I am the PP who grew up in suburbia and did fine at an Ivy but did not excel, there or in life.

My parents were the first in their families to go to college and they pushed me to do well (I went to public high school) and none of us really thought about what it would take to succeed after I got into a good college. They had no clue. I had no clue. I went to an Ivy that is notorious for not being supportive (esp. in the 80s/90s) and I basically just floated through, getting mored depressed as graduation was coming.

As for the PP who said all you need is hard work and hustle, I push back on this. I waitressed and nannied, and had other jobs through college. I got good grades, I did ECs. I wasn't a slacker with a trust fund just coasting on the Ivy name.

I just didn't understand newtowkring, or parlaying the hand I had into something bigger.

Grad school and law school seemed out of reach for me. I didn't have a passion or a plan and my parents did not have the $ for grad school, so taking on that much debt for something I wasn't sure about seemed irresponsible.

As a mother I tell my kids it is way more important to attend a school where you grow into the best you, have mentors, access to professors, and feel like a part of the school community than it is to have a brand name.

Well, all the Ivies (save Columbia, which is a fake Ivy anyways) have a much stronger sense of community than most flagship state schools.

Your kid got rejected by Columbia - again.

Columbia is objectively an awful undergrad experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the wisest comment from that thread:

I am the PP who grew up in suburbia and did fine at an Ivy but did not excel, there or in life.

My parents were the first in their families to go to college and they pushed me to do well (I went to public high school) and none of us really thought about what it would take to succeed after I got into a good college. They had no clue. I had no clue. I went to an Ivy that is notorious for not being supportive (esp. in the 80s/90s) and I basically just floated through, getting mored depressed as graduation was coming.

As for the PP who said all you need is hard work and hustle, I push back on this. I waitressed and nannied, and had other jobs through college. I got good grades, I did ECs. I wasn't a slacker with a trust fund just coasting on the Ivy name.

I just didn't understand newtowkring, or parlaying the hand I had into something bigger.

Grad school and law school seemed out of reach for me. I didn't have a passion or a plan and my parents did not have the $ for grad school, so taking on that much debt for something I wasn't sure about seemed irresponsible.

As a mother I tell my kids it is way more important to attend a school where you grow into the best you, have mentors, access to professors, and feel like a part of the school community than it is to have a brand name.

Well, all the Ivies (save Columbia, which is a fake Ivy anyways) have a much stronger sense of community than most flagship state schools.

You attended ALL the Ivies. Good job. Please continue to spout your wisdom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been thinking about that thread recently. I have a degree from an Ivy and two graduate degrees from top schools and I make about $130,000 a year as a professor. I am vastly overqualified for my job at a third Tier institution although it works well with my family responsibilities.

My parents were extremely working class and the number one skill that I feel like I did not acquire as a child was the ability to advocate for myself. My parents are very timid and they have never stood up to an employer or asked for anything. The overwhelming sense I had as a child was that life was something that happened to you and I remember being terribly surprised when I figured it out in graduate school, that other people had a vision for where they wanted to end up and that they were working to implement that vision. But to some degree it was already too late for me when I realize that other people had been doing that since they were 16.

A good school can only take you so far if you have no sense of agency or the ability to create their own life, and unfortunately most of us from poor and working class environments do not have that skill

Squandered Ivy here, yes I definitely was extremely deferential to authority. I was terrified of talking to my professors at my Ivy, even though many were very nice, partly because I didn't want them to figure out I didn't belong there (which may or may not have been true!). My GOAL and my parent's goal in life was to go to great college away from my small town -- I had NO inkling of what happened after that, and by the time I figured out what I thought was a decent path, the die was cast for my underwhelming career.

At least as a professor you have a pretty stable career and autonomy; do you get to live in a LCOL college town with good schools, that would be a great benefit!

This is so odd to me. Most of the working class kids at my Ivy were STEM majors who went to med school or into tech. They are killing it now. Why didn’t you do that?

I DID go into tech. I ended up in gov contracting because I wanted to work on “meaningful work”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been thinking about that thread recently. I have a degree from an Ivy and two graduate degrees from top schools and I make about $130,000 a year as a professor. I am vastly overqualified for my job at a third Tier institution although it works well with my family responsibilities.

My parents were extremely working class and the number one skill that I feel like I did not acquire as a child was the ability to advocate for myself. My parents are very timid and they have never stood up to an employer or asked for anything. The overwhelming sense I had as a child was that life was something that happened to you and I remember being terribly surprised when I figured it out in graduate school, that other people had a vision for where they wanted to end up and that they were working to implement that vision. But to some degree it was already too late for me when I realize that other people had been doing that since they were 16.

A good school can only take you so far if you have no sense of agency or the ability to create their own life, and unfortunately most of us from poor and working class environments do not have that skill

This! While I don't agree an Ivy is the end all be all, I also don't think that the argument of one person who didn't know how to use the Ivy League education / network equals an Ivy not being "worth it."

What does data say about well-compensated leaders coming from tiny schools versus big brand schools? I know people who graduated from schools DCUM would scoff at making $500K. I know many from Ivies who do normal jobs and earn amounts that some here would find to be too small. My thinking is that life success comes from your vision and the actions taken more than from a college you attended.

What PP said above relates to me. I had no idea people had visions for their future or that they set goals. That would have been useful to know. I didn't figure this out until after graduate school when I met someone in my field who appeared to have a plan and goals and was knocking them out one by one and racking up success after success. That person came from a wealthy family in a wealthy suburb.

The financial advantage can't be overstated. Ivies attract the rich so perhaps being rich is more important than what school you choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been thinking about that thread recently. I have a degree from an Ivy and two graduate degrees from top schools and I make about $130,000 a year as a professor. I am vastly overqualified for my job at a third Tier institution although it works well with my family responsibilities.

My parents were extremely working class and the number one skill that I feel like I did not acquire as a child was the ability to advocate for myself. My parents are very timid and they have never stood up to an employer or asked for anything. The overwhelming sense I had as a child was that life was something that happened to you and I remember being terribly surprised when I figured it out in graduate school, that other people had a vision for where they wanted to end up and that they were working to implement that vision. But to some degree it was already too late for me when I realize that other people had been doing that since they were 16.

A good school can only take you so far if you have no sense of agency or the ability to create their own life, and unfortunately most of us from poor and working class environments do not have that skill

Squandered Ivy here, yes I definitely was extremely deferential to authority. I was terrified of talking to my professors at my Ivy, even though many were very nice, partly because I didn't want them to figure out I didn't belong there (which may or may not have been true!). My GOAL and my parent's goal in life was to go to great college away from my small town -- I had NO inkling of what happened after that, and by the time I figured out what I thought was a decent path, the die was cast for my underwhelming career.

At least as a professor you have a pretty stable career and autonomy; do you get to live in a LCOL college town with good schools, that would be a great benefit!

This is so odd to me. Most of the working class kids at my Ivy were STEM majors who went to med school or into tech. They are killing it now. Why didn’t you do that?

Doubt truly working class kids went into med school btw. The debt required would be a huge roadblock. Borrowing more money than my parents net worth and 10x their annual income??? How does that seem wise…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been thinking about that thread recently. I have a degree from an Ivy and two graduate degrees from top schools and I make about $130,000 a year as a professor. I am vastly overqualified for my job at a third Tier institution although it works well with my family responsibilities.

My parents were extremely working class and the number one skill that I feel like I did not acquire as a child was the ability to advocate for myself. My parents are very timid and they have never stood up to an employer or asked for anything. The overwhelming sense I had as a child was that life was something that happened to you and I remember being terribly surprised when I figured it out in graduate school, that other people had a vision for where they wanted to end up and that they were working to implement that vision. But to some degree it was already too late for me when I realize that other people had been doing that since they were 16.

A good school can only take you so far if you have no sense of agency or the ability to create their own life, and unfortunately most of us from poor and working class environments do not have that skill

Squandered Ivy here, yes I definitely was extremely deferential to authority. I was terrified of talking to my professors at my Ivy, even though many were very nice, partly because I didn't want them to figure out I didn't belong there (which may or may not have been true!). My GOAL and my parent's goal in life was to go to great college away from my small town -- I had NO inkling of what happened after that, and by the time I figured out what I thought was a decent path, the die was cast for my underwhelming career.

At least as a professor you have a pretty stable career and autonomy; do you get to live in a LCOL college town with good schools, that would be a great benefit!

This is so odd to me. Most of the working class kids at my Ivy were STEM majors who went to med school or into tech. They are killing it now. Why didn’t you do that?

From the 90s? In the 90s tech was viewed as Initech from Office Space until the dot.com (which was pretty quick and then tech was awful for several years with layoffs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the wisest comment from that thread:

I am the PP who grew up in suburbia and did fine at an Ivy but did not excel, there or in life.

My parents were the first in their families to go to college and they pushed me to do well (I went to public high school) and none of us really thought about what it would take to succeed after I got into a good college. They had no clue. I had no clue. I went to an Ivy that is notorious for not being supportive (esp. in the 80s/90s) and I basically just floated through, getting mored depressed as graduation was coming.

As for the PP who said all you need is hard work and hustle, I push back on this. I waitressed and nannied, and had other jobs through college. I got good grades, I did ECs. I wasn't a slacker with a trust fund just coasting on the Ivy name.

I just didn't understand newtowkring, or parlaying the hand I had into something bigger.

Grad school and law school seemed out of reach for me. I didn't have a passion or a plan and my parents did not have the $ for grad school, so taking on that much debt for something I wasn't sure about seemed irresponsible.

As a mother I tell my kids it is way more important to attend a school where you grow into the best you, have mentors, access to professors, and feel like a part of the school community than it is to have a brand name.

Well, all the Ivies (save Columbia, which is a fake Ivy anyways) have a much stronger sense of community than most flagship state schools.

That’s not true at all -Harvard and Yale (law) grad

This is encouraging. People go to Yale law and still end up spending their free time on DCUM like the rest of us.

Retired silly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the wisest comment from that thread:

I am the PP who grew up in suburbia and did fine at an Ivy but did not excel, there or in life.

My parents were the first in their families to go to college and they pushed me to do well (I went to public high school) and none of us really thought about what it would take to succeed after I got into a good college. They had no clue. I had no clue. I went to an Ivy that is notorious for not being supportive (esp. in the 80s/90s) and I basically just floated through, getting mored depressed as graduation was coming.

As for the PP who said all you need is hard work and hustle, I push back on this. I waitressed and nannied, and had other jobs through college. I got good grades, I did ECs. I wasn't a slacker with a trust fund just coasting on the Ivy name.

I just didn't understand newtowkring, or parlaying the hand I had into something bigger.

Grad school and law school seemed out of reach for me. I didn't have a passion or a plan and my parents did not have the $ for grad school, so taking on that much debt for something I wasn't sure about seemed irresponsible.

As a mother I tell my kids it is way more important to attend a school where you grow into the best you, have mentors, access to professors, and feel like a part of the school community than it is to have a brand name.

Well, all the Ivies (save Columbia, which is a fake Ivy anyways) have a much stronger sense of community than most flagship state schools.

You attended ALL the Ivies. Good job. Please continue to spout your wisdom.

+1. And categorically false, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been thinking about that thread recently. I have a degree from an Ivy and two graduate degrees from top schools and I make about $130,000 a year as a professor. I am vastly overqualified for my job at a third Tier institution although it works well with my family responsibilities.

My parents were extremely working class and the number one skill that I feel like I did not acquire as a child was the ability to advocate for myself. My parents are very timid and they have never stood up to an employer or asked for anything. The overwhelming sense I had as a child was that life was something that happened to you and I remember being terribly surprised when I figured it out in graduate school, that other people had a vision for where they wanted to end up and that they were working to implement that vision. But to some degree it was already too late for me when I realize that other people had been doing that since they were 16.

A good school can only take you so far if you have no sense of agency or the ability to create their own life, and unfortunately most of us from poor and working class environments do not have that skill

Squandered Ivy here, yes I definitely was extremely deferential to authority. I was terrified of talking to my professors at my Ivy, even though many were very nice, partly because I didn't want them to figure out I didn't belong there (which may or may not have been true!). My GOAL and my parent's goal in life was to go to great college away from my small town -- I had NO inkling of what happened after that, and by the time I figured out what I thought was a decent path, the die was cast for my underwhelming career.

At least as a professor you have a pretty stable career and autonomy; do you get to live in a LCOL college town with good schools, that would be a great benefit!

This is so odd to me. Most of the working class kids at my Ivy were STEM majors who went to med school or into tech. They are killing it now. Why didn’t you do that?

Doubt truly working class kids went into med school btw. The debt required would be a huge roadblock. Borrowing more money than my parents net worth and 10x their annual income??? How does that seem wise…

Working class Asian-American kids do it all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been thinking about that thread recently. I have a degree from an Ivy and two graduate degrees from top schools and I make about $130,000 a year as a professor. I am vastly overqualified for my job at a third Tier institution although it works well with my family responsibilities.

My parents were extremely working class and the number one skill that I feel like I did not acquire as a child was the ability to advocate for myself. My parents are very timid and they have never stood up to an employer or asked for anything. The overwhelming sense I had as a child was that life was something that happened to you and I remember being terribly surprised when I figured it out in graduate school, that other people had a vision for where they wanted to end up and that they were working to implement that vision. But to some degree it was already too late for me when I realize that other people had been doing that since they were 16.

A good school can only take you so far if you have no sense of agency or the ability to create their own life, and unfortunately most of us from poor and working class environments do not have that skill

Squandered Ivy here, yes I definitely was extremely deferential to authority. I was terrified of talking to my professors at my Ivy, even though many were very nice, partly because I didn't want them to figure out I didn't belong there (which may or may not have been true!). My GOAL and my parent's goal in life was to go to great college away from my small town -- I had NO inkling of what happened after that, and by the time I figured out what I thought was a decent path, the die was cast for my underwhelming career.

At least as a professor you have a pretty stable career and autonomy; do you get to live in a LCOL college town with good schools, that would be a great benefit!

This is so odd to me. Most of the working class kids at my Ivy were STEM majors who went to med school or into tech. They are killing it now. Why didn’t you do that?

I DID go into tech. I ended up in gov contracting because I wanted to work on “meaningful work”.

Doesn’t private government contracting pay really well? (at least in cybersecurity)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been thinking about that thread recently. I have a degree from an Ivy and two graduate degrees from top schools and I make about $130,000 a year as a professor. I am vastly overqualified for my job at a third Tier institution although it works well with my family responsibilities.

My parents were extremely working class and the number one skill that I feel like I did not acquire as a child was the ability to advocate for myself. My parents are very timid and they have never stood up to an employer or asked for anything. The overwhelming sense I had as a child was that life was something that happened to you and I remember being terribly surprised when I figured it out in graduate school, that other people had a vision for where they wanted to end up and that they were working to implement that vision. But to some degree it was already too late for me when I realize that other people had been doing that since they were 16.

A good school can only take you so far if you have no sense of agency or the ability to create their own life, and unfortunately most of us from poor and working class environments do not have that skill

I share many similarities with you. As an undergrad, and in my very small graduate program, I took a lot of small seminars. I was often the only Black student, the only POC, and, occasionally, the only woman in a class. I quickly realized that if I didn’t speak up, a lot of things—from what I viewed as basic information, to my own informed opinions and perspectives — would go completely unsaid. So one thing I got from my experiences was the ability to speak out and to hold my own while advocating for minority perspectives.

You captured perfectly my bewilderment as I realized how people with more resources than I could envision exercised their own agency. I’m still struggling with that — and still working to find a balance that feels authentic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: We've seen the Dale and Kruger study showing that it doesn't matter where you go to college. This thread should be required reading for all the Ivy-obsessed posters here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1093901.page

"Ivies aren't the best."

Translation: "Please do not apply to an Ivy so I have a better chance being admitted."

[Anonymous]

My siblings and I were the first in our family to go to college and going to Yale changed my future also. While I didn't succeed right out of college (got a job but it wasn't a great one), I was able to get a recommendation from a Yale professor to get into law school 5 years after I had graduated. Not every prof would have done that. And then having Yale on my resume for applying for law firm jobs opened doors as well.

I think the lesson here from this and other stories is that not every ivy is the best, but Yale is generally a really good and supportive ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: We've seen the Dale and Kruger study showing that it doesn't matter where you go to college. This thread should be required reading for all the Ivy-obsessed posters here:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1093901.page

"Ivies aren't the best."

Translation: "Please do not apply to an Ivy so I have a better chance being admitted."

Exactly