Ivies aren't the best

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the wisest comment from that thread:

I am the PP who grew up in suburbia and did fine at an Ivy but did not excel, there or in life.

My parents were the first in their families to go to college and they pushed me to do well (I went to public high school) and none of us really thought about what it would take to succeed after I got into a good college. They had no clue. I had no clue. I went to an Ivy that is notorious for not being supportive (esp. in the 80s/90s) and I basically just floated through, getting mored depressed as graduation was coming.

As for the PP who said all you need is hard work and hustle, I push back on this. I waitressed and nannied, and had other jobs through college. I got good grades, I did ECs. I wasn't a slacker with a trust fund just coasting on the Ivy name.

I just didn't understand newtowkring, or parlaying the hand I had into something bigger.

Grad school and law school seemed out of reach for me. I didn't have a passion or a plan and my parents did not have the $ for grad school, so taking on that much debt for something I wasn't sure about seemed irresponsible.

As a mother I tell my kids it is way more important to attend a school where you grow into the best you, have mentors, access to professors, and feel like a part of the school community than it is to have a brand name.

Well, all the Ivies (save Columbia, which is a fake Ivy anyways) have a much stronger sense of community than most flagship state schools.

You can get the strong sense of community at many many schools---including many in the top 100-150 that are less than 10K undergrads and not ranked in Top 20. It more has to do with the size of the school. And the strong sense of community can be found at a large state school, but you have to work harder and it helps to be part of a smaller major and/or the honors college to find that sense of community. But the ivy's and T20 schools do NOT have a stronghold on this concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much it matters depend upon who you are — and what your resources are. I’m African American, and attended urban public schools. Going to Yale changed my peer groups, my options for graduate school, and increased the chances that my cv will get a longer glance instead of a shorter one. Maybe it doesn’t matter for people who already have certain types of educational experiences and connections, but for some of us, it can completely change the trajectory of our lives.

So the real question is more like: Best for what? Or perhaps: Best for who — under what circumstances?

good point. and anyone who can get into an ivy will have the drive to do well no matter where they go. Doors can be opened from many places, not just Ivy's

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much it matters depend upon who you are — and what your resources are. I’m African American, and attended urban public schools. Going to Yale changed my peer groups, my options for graduate school, and increased the chances that my cv will get a longer glance instead of a shorter one. Maybe it doesn’t matter for people who already have certain types of educational experiences and connections, but for some of us, it can completely change the trajectory of our lives.

So the real question is more like: Best for what? Or perhaps: Best for who — under what circumstances?

Yeah, I think the Dale and Kruger study made an exception for first-gen/low-income Ivy students and also URMs.

It found a very SLIGHT advantage for those groups with regard to lifetime salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the wisest comment from that thread:

I am the PP who grew up in suburbia and did fine at an Ivy but did not excel, there or in life.

My parents were the first in their families to go to college and they pushed me to do well (I went to public high school) and none of us really thought about what it would take to succeed after I got into a good college. They had no clue. I had no clue. I went to an Ivy that is notorious for not being supportive (esp. in the 80s/90s) and I basically just floated through, getting mored depressed as graduation was coming.

As for the PP who said all you need is hard work and hustle, I push back on this. I waitressed and nannied, and had other jobs through college. I got good grades, I did ECs. I wasn't a slacker with a trust fund just coasting on the Ivy name.

I just didn't understand newtowkring, or parlaying the hand I had into something bigger.

Grad school and law school seemed out of reach for me. I didn't have a passion or a plan and my parents did not have the $ for grad school, so taking on that much debt for something I wasn't sure about seemed irresponsible.

As a mother I tell my kids it is way more important to attend a school where you grow into the best you, have mentors, access to professors, and feel like a part of the school community than it is to have a brand name.

Well, all the Ivies (save Columbia, which is a fake Ivy anyways) have a much stronger sense of community than most flagship state schools.

You can get the strong sense of community at many many schools---including many in the top 100-150 that are less than 10K undergrads and not ranked in Top 20. It more has to do with the size of the school. And the strong sense of community can be found at a large state school, but you have to work harder and it helps to be part of a smaller major and/or the honors college to find that sense of community. But the ivy's and T20 schools do NOT have a stronghold on this concept.

+1

I agree with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much it matters depend upon who you are — and what your resources are. I’m African American, and attended urban public schools. Going to Yale changed my peer groups, my options for graduate school, and increased the chances that my cv will get a longer glance instead of a shorter one. Maybe it doesn’t matter for people who already have certain types of educational experiences and connections, but for some of us, it can completely change the trajectory of our lives.

So the real question is more like: Best for what? Or perhaps: Best for who — under what circumstances?

good point. and anyone who can get into an ivy will have the drive to do well no matter where they go. Doors can be opened from many places, not just Ivy's

+100

And doors can be closed from many places as well, including the Ivies. We can see in the post that OP linked that majoring in the humanities is almost always a bad idea, even if you're at an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Ha this is funny. I had a colleague who went to Princeton Undergrad and Harvard Law who was doing the same in house job as me who went to American Undergrad and Catholic Law. My spouse was like see--school doesn't make a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ha this is funny. I had a colleague who went to Princeton Undergrad and Harvard Law who was doing the same in house job as me who went to American Undergrad and Catholic Law. My spouse was like see--school doesn't make a difference.

And?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ha this is funny. I had a colleague who went to Princeton Undergrad and Harvard Law who was doing the same in house job as me who went to American Undergrad and Catholic Law. My spouse was like see--school doesn't make a difference.

The same job? Of course people that do similar jobs did not all go to the same schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much it matters depend upon who you are — and what your resources are. I’m African American, and attended urban public schools. Going to Yale changed my peer groups, my options for graduate school, and increased the chances that my cv will get a longer glance instead of a shorter one. Maybe it doesn’t matter for people who already have certain types of educational experiences and connections, but for some of us, it can completely change the trajectory of our lives.

So the real question is more like: Best for what? Or perhaps: Best for who — under what circumstances?

good point. and anyone who can get into an ivy will have the drive to do well no matter where they go. Doors can be opened from many places, not just Ivy's

+100

And doors can be closed from many places as well, including the Ivies. We can see in the post that OP linked that majoring in the humanities is almost always a bad idea, even if you're at an Ivy.

What's your evidence that it's almost always a bad idea to major in the humanities? Salary? People majoring in those areas at Ivies are smart enough to know they won't be raking in as mush as their peers, and most of them don't care. I know many for whom that's worked out very well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the wisest comment from that thread:

I am the PP who grew up in suburbia and did fine at an Ivy but did not excel, there or in life.

My parents were the first in their families to go to college and they pushed me to do well (I went to public high school) and none of us really thought about what it would take to succeed after I got into a good college. They had no clue. I had no clue. I went to an Ivy that is notorious for not being supportive (esp. in the 80s/90s) and I basically just floated through, getting mored depressed as graduation was coming.

As for the PP who said all you need is hard work and hustle, I push back on this. I waitressed and nannied, and had other jobs through college. I got good grades, I did ECs. I wasn't a slacker with a trust fund just coasting on the Ivy name.

I just didn't understand newtowkring, or parlaying the hand I had into something bigger.

Grad school and law school seemed out of reach for me. I didn't have a passion or a plan and my parents did not have the $ for grad school, so taking on that much debt for something I wasn't sure about seemed irresponsible.

As a mother I tell my kids it is way more important to attend a school where you grow into the best you, have mentors, access to professors, and feel like a part of the school community than it is to have a brand name.

Well, all the Ivies (save Columbia, which is a fake Ivy anyways) have a much stronger sense of community than most flagship state schools.

You can get the strong sense of community at many many schools---including many in the top 100-150 that are less than 10K undergrads and not ranked in Top 20. It more has to do with the size of the school. And the strong sense of community can be found at a large state school, but you have to work harder and it helps to be part of a smaller major and/or the honors college to find that sense of community. But the ivy's and T20 schools do NOT have a stronghold on this concept.

+1

I agree with this.

+2

Me too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the wisest comment from that thread:

I am the PP who grew up in suburbia and did fine at an Ivy but did not excel, there or in life.

My parents were the first in their families to go to college and they pushed me to do well (I went to public high school) and none of us really thought about what it would take to succeed after I got into a good college. They had no clue. I had no clue. I went to an Ivy that is notorious for not being supportive (esp. in the 80s/90s) and I basically just floated through, getting mored depressed as graduation was coming.

As for the PP who said all you need is hard work and hustle, I push back on this. I waitressed and nannied, and had other jobs through college. I got good grades, I did ECs. I wasn't a slacker with a trust fund just coasting on the Ivy name.

I just didn't understand newtowkring, or parlaying the hand I had into something bigger.

Grad school and law school seemed out of reach for me. I didn't have a passion or a plan and my parents did not have the $ for grad school, so taking on that much debt for something I wasn't sure about seemed irresponsible.

As a mother I tell my kids it is way more important to attend a school where you grow into the best you, have mentors, access to professors, and feel like a part of the school community than it is to have a brand name.

Well, all the Ivies (save Columbia, which is a fake Ivy anyways) have a much stronger sense of community than most flagship state schools.

Your kid got rejected by Columbia - again.

[Anonymous]

I have been thinking about that thread recently. I have a degree from an Ivy and two graduate degrees from top schools and I make about $130,000 a year as a professor. I am vastly overqualified for my job at a third Tier institution although it works well with my family responsibilities.

My parents were extremely working class and the number one skill that I feel like I did not acquire as a child was the ability to advocate for myself. My parents are very timid and they have never stood up to an employer or asked for anything. The overwhelming sense I had as a child was that life was something that happened to you and I remember being terribly surprised when I figured it out in graduate school, that other people had a vision for where they wanted to end up and that they were working to implement that vision. But to some degree it was already too late for me when I realize that other people had been doing that since they were 16.

A good school can only take you so far if you have no sense of agency or the ability to create their own life, and unfortunately most of us from poor and working class environments do not have that skill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the study mildly interesting, but quite amusing as both Stacy Dale and Alan Krueger hold degrees from Ivy League schools including Princeton, Harvard, and Cornell.

Same is true for billionaires come to tell us money does not matter.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been thinking about that thread recently. I have a degree from an Ivy and two graduate degrees from top schools and I make about $130,000 a year as a professor. I am vastly overqualified for my job at a third Tier institution although it works well with my family responsibilities.

My parents were extremely working class and the number one skill that I feel like I did not acquire as a child was the ability to advocate for myself. My parents are very timid and they have never stood up to an employer or asked for anything. The overwhelming sense I had as a child was that life was something that happened to you and I remember being terribly surprised when I figured it out in graduate school, that other people had a vision for where they wanted to end up and that they were working to implement that vision. But to some degree it was already too late for me when I realize that other people had been doing that since they were 16.

A good school can only take you so far if you have no sense of agency or the ability to create their own life, and unfortunately most of us from poor and working class environments do not have that skill

Squandered Ivy here, yes I definitely was extremely deferential to authority. I was terrified of talking to my professors at my Ivy, even though many were very nice, partly because I didn't want them to figure out I didn't belong there (which may or may not have been true!). My GOAL and my parent's goal in life was to go to great college away from my small town -- I had NO inkling of what happened after that, and by the time I figured out what I thought was a decent path, the die was cast for my underwhelming career.

At least as a professor you have a pretty stable career and autonomy; do you get to live in a LCOL college town with good schools, that would be a great benefit!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the wisest comment from that thread:

I am the PP who grew up in suburbia and did fine at an Ivy but did not excel, there or in life.

My parents were the first in their families to go to college and they pushed me to do well (I went to public high school) and none of us really thought about what it would take to succeed after I got into a good college. They had no clue. I had no clue. I went to an Ivy that is notorious for not being supportive (esp. in the 80s/90s) and I basically just floated through, getting mored depressed as graduation was coming.

As for the PP who said all you need is hard work and hustle, I push back on this. I waitressed and nannied, and had other jobs through college. I got good grades, I did ECs. I wasn't a slacker with a trust fund just coasting on the Ivy name.

I just didn't understand newtowkring, or parlaying the hand I had into something bigger.

Grad school and law school seemed out of reach for me. I didn't have a passion or a plan and my parents did not have the $ for grad school, so taking on that much debt for something I wasn't sure about seemed irresponsible.

As a mother I tell my kids it is way more important to attend a school where you grow into the best you, have mentors, access to professors, and feel like a part of the school community than it is to have a brand name.

Well, all the Ivies (save Columbia, which is a fake Ivy anyways) have a much stronger sense of community than most flagship state schools.

typed the person who has clearly never been a part of a state flagship community. The ones I have been a part of (Michigan and Wisconsin) have incredible community.