Any hope for my semi-feral children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid can act that way at other people's houses. She also acts that way at home often, but she can also bounce off the walls, be extremely rude, and throw fits. That's kids (she's in preschool).

One particularly devious thing my kid will do at a friend's house is notice that the friend's parent is exasperated with the friend's poor behavior, and intentionally show off her manners and calmness to show she's "better" than the other kid. I don't know if the other parents can tell this is happening but I can. Partly it makes me laugh (to myself, exclusively), but it also partly exasperates ME because probably her biggest challenging behavior right now is that she is so incredibly competitive over everything. We are working on addressing this behavior now, before her friends start figuring out what she's doing (if they haven't already -- young kids are very intuitively smart about social behavior) and getting angry with her for making them look bad. It's hard!

The point is, no young child is 100% well behaved all the time, and if they were, I'd worry about them! Kids need safe places to let it all hang out. They are still new to being people and actually a lot is expected of them at school and in daycare. Lots and lots of rules, and they have very limited control over their lives. It's normal for them to be especially terrible at home because that's their safe place; your kids are likely better behaved away from home, especially when you aren't around.

OP here. That is kind of funny and kind of true. I mean it was almost over the top so I wonder if that's what was going on. And then it made my child really annoyed and angry and was accusing me of thinking the friend was "better".

Also what PPs mentioned is also true. They are much better at other people's houses, but still nowhere near where this child was. It's also true that they are much better behaved when they are solo. Something about being around each other brings out this crazy energy.

They are 10 and 8 and naturally argumentative and oppositional. So is my husband, but they all gang up on me because they think I am the one who gets bent out of shape about it. My husband turns it around and says I'm the one picking fights when he is just "discussing" and "talking" and that I am uptight. He laughs when our kids say things like "Shut it, mom, I don't want to hear it" and when I set boundaries, I'm seen as the bad guy.

So, there is letting your kids be a bit wilder and not embracing the strict school of parenting, and then there is your husband allowing your kids to bully you. The bolded is a big problem for me, OP. Not because your kids are teasing or a little wild, but because you and your husband are not on the same page. And, at best, he is gaslighting you and teaching your kids to disrespect you. You guys need to be a team, full stop.

This is less a parenting question and more a marriage counseling question to my read.

Agree, except it’s both a marriage and a parenting issue now. OP, this is absolutely not OK. Your husband is not treating you with the respect you deserve. If you want to stay with him, he needs to change his behavior and you both need to address the kids’ rudeness and boundary problems as a team. If one of my kids told either of us to “shut it” at that age all hell would have broken out in our house.

Tell me exactly what would have happened in your house if one of your kids did say that? I am genuinely asking because I have been living in this world too long, with a family who all think I am the crazy person who gets bent out of shape.

NP in that particular instance my husband would have very sternly said “hey, you don't talk to your mom like that”. I would follow that up with “I know you are just playing around but that’s a rude thing to say and you don’t talk to me, or anyone else, with that language.” Oldest is 5. Youngest doesn’t test boundaries in that way yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid can act that way at other people's houses. She also acts that way at home often, but she can also bounce off the walls, be extremely rude, and throw fits. That's kids (she's in preschool).

One particularly devious thing my kid will do at a friend's house is notice that the friend's parent is exasperated with the friend's poor behavior, and intentionally show off her manners and calmness to show she's "better" than the other kid. I don't know if the other parents can tell this is happening but I can. Partly it makes me laugh (to myself, exclusively), but it also partly exasperates ME because probably her biggest challenging behavior right now is that she is so incredibly competitive over everything. We are working on addressing this behavior now, before her friends start figuring out what she's doing (if they haven't already -- young kids are very intuitively smart about social behavior) and getting angry with her for making them look bad. It's hard!

The point is, no young child is 100% well behaved all the time, and if they were, I'd worry about them! Kids need safe places to let it all hang out. They are still new to being people and actually a lot is expected of them at school and in daycare. Lots and lots of rules, and they have very limited control over their lives. It's normal for them to be especially terrible at home because that's their safe place; your kids are likely better behaved away from home, especially when you aren't around.

OP here. That is kind of funny and kind of true. I mean it was almost over the top so I wonder if that's what was going on. And then it made my child really annoyed and angry and was accusing me of thinking the friend was "better".

Also what PPs mentioned is also true. They are much better at other people's houses, but still nowhere near where this child was. It's also true that they are much better behaved when they are solo. Something about being around each other brings out this crazy energy.

They are 10 and 8 and naturally argumentative and oppositional. So is my husband, but they all gang up on me because they think I am the one who gets bent out of shape about it. My husband turns it around and says I'm the one picking fights when he is just "discussing" and "talking" and that I am uptight. He laughs when our kids say things like "Shut it, mom, I don't want to hear it" and when I set boundaries, I'm seen as the bad guy.

So, there is letting your kids be a bit wilder and not embracing the strict school of parenting, and then there is your husband allowing your kids to bully you. The bolded is a big problem for me, OP. Not because your kids are teasing or a little wild, but because you and your husband are not on the same page. And, at best, he is gaslighting you and teaching your kids to disrespect you. You guys need to be a team, full stop.

This is less a parenting question and more a marriage counseling question to my read.

Agree, except it’s both a marriage and a parenting issue now. OP, this is absolutely not OK. Your husband is not treating you with the respect you deserve. If you want to stay with him, he needs to change his behavior and you both need to address the kids’ rudeness and boundary problems as a team. If one of my kids told either of us to “shut it” at that age all hell would have broken out in our house.

Tell me exactly what would have happened in your house if one of your kids did say that? I am genuinely asking because I have been living in this world too long, with a family who all think I am the crazy person who gets bent out of shape.

DH and I would have gone dead quiet and asked the kid in a shocked way what they just said. Then explained very sternly that we absolutely do not speak to each other like this in our family and they need to apologize immediately. If they refused they lose privileges. Then a longer and more mellow talk at bedtime about how important it is to treat other people respectfully and examples of that.

[Anonymous]

OP your husband is a gaslighter and your kids have picked up on it and are doing it too.

No way in hell our kids would talk to either of us like that, without consequence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid can act that way at other people's houses. She also acts that way at home often, but she can also bounce off the walls, be extremely rude, and throw fits. That's kids (she's in preschool).

One particularly devious thing my kid will do at a friend's house is notice that the friend's parent is exasperated with the friend's poor behavior, and intentionally show off her manners and calmness to show she's "better" than the other kid. I don't know if the other parents can tell this is happening but I can. Partly it makes me laugh (to myself, exclusively), but it also partly exasperates ME because probably her biggest challenging behavior right now is that she is so incredibly competitive over everything. We are working on addressing this behavior now, before her friends start figuring out what she's doing (if they haven't already -- young kids are very intuitively smart about social behavior) and getting angry with her for making them look bad. It's hard!

The point is, no young child is 100% well behaved all the time, and if they were, I'd worry about them! Kids need safe places to let it all hang out. They are still new to being people and actually a lot is expected of them at school and in daycare. Lots and lots of rules, and they have very limited control over their lives. It's normal for them to be especially terrible at home because that's their safe place; your kids are likely better behaved away from home, especially when you aren't around.

OP here. That is kind of funny and kind of true. I mean it was almost over the top so I wonder if that's what was going on. And then it made my child really annoyed and angry and was accusing me of thinking the friend was "better".

Also what PPs mentioned is also true. They are much better at other people's houses, but still nowhere near where this child was. It's also true that they are much better behaved when they are solo. Something about being around each other brings out this crazy energy.

They are 10 and 8 and naturally argumentative and oppositional. So is my husband, but they all gang up on me because they think I am the one who gets bent out of shape about it. My husband turns it around and says I'm the one picking fights when he is just "discussing" and "talking" and that I am uptight. He laughs when our kids say things like "Shut it, mom, I don't want to hear it" and when I set boundaries, I'm seen as the bad guy.

So, there is letting your kids be a bit wilder and not embracing the strict school of parenting, and then there is your husband allowing your kids to bully you. The bolded is a big problem for me, OP. Not because your kids are teasing or a little wild, but because you and your husband are not on the same page. And, at best, he is gaslighting you and teaching your kids to disrespect you. You guys need to be a team, full stop.

This is less a parenting question and more a marriage counseling question to my read.

Agree, except it’s both a marriage and a parenting issue now. OP, this is absolutely not OK. Your husband is not treating you with the respect you deserve. If you want to stay with him, he needs to change his behavior and you both need to address the kids’ rudeness and boundary problems as a team. If one of my kids told either of us to “shut it” at that age all hell would have broken out in our house.

Tell me exactly what would have happened in your house if one of your kids did say that? I am genuinely asking because I have been living in this world too long, with a family who all think I am the crazy person who gets bent out of shape.

DH and I would have gone dead quiet and asked the kid in a shocked way what they just said. Then explained very sternly that we absolutely do not speak to each other like this in our family and they need to apologize immediately. If they refused they lose privileges. Then a longer and more mellow talk at bedtime about how important it is to treat other people respectfully and examples of that.

This would be our house too. But I would want to be the one to say it - I don’t need/want DH to scare my kids, nor do I want them to think they need to respect me only because he said so. We go for calm and disappointed as our emotional tenor - getting mad just makes the kid defensive and angry back, but when I am disappointed, they stew in their wrongness and get the message more quickly.

[Anonymous]

The scaring of kids is sick!

[Anonymous]

Naturally argumentative. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In addition to training at home, I do encourage playing with the better-behaved friends vs the more feral ones. It helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In addition to training at home, I do encourage playing with the better-behaved friends vs the more feral ones. It helps.

What do you define as feral? Loud, full of energy? I actually thinks this teaches the kids to be unkind and exclusionary to others. I teach my kids that we are all different and sometimes we need to understand differences and have more patience.

[Anonymous]

Kids almost always behave better at a friend's house or at school. Start worrying when other parents and teachers make comments about your kids being rude, unruly, etc.

[Anonymous]

Op I’m so sorry, it sounds like you have a husband problem. The story of him encouraging them when they say things like shut it mom is just wow. I agree with others at my home it would be immediate that both my husband and I would say that was completely unacceptable and we don’t talk like that to each other. If it kept happening there would be a consequence. I think the next step might actually be couples therapy to see if you can get your husband to be more of a partner to you in this. Otherwise your kids will just keep imitating him

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Had one of my kid’s friends over and I just about fell over to see how mature, nice, respectful, and helpful the friend was. It was like a dream, or like I was being pranked.

But it also made me so jealous, because I have been trying to raise our kids to be like that, but they are the opposite. Same age but so behind in terms of maturity, manners, ability to hold a conversation. Sometimes I feel like they are feral. My husband is equally handicapped in terms of manners, kindness, helpfulness, social skills, organizational and planning skills, and household help.

Is there hope for my children? They also do have great qualities- they are very smart, tenacious, and knowledgeable, and when they want something, nothing will deter them. They are also never mean or excluding on purpose. They enjoy being different and like to challenge norms and have a bit of an activist streak.

See the bolded. These things are partially environmental, partially genetic. Get serious now about scaffolding and don't let anything slide.

[Anonymous]

You demean your husband My husband is equally handicapped in terms of manners, kindness, helpfulness, social skills, organizational and planning skills, and household help. and then are surprised he doesn't support you in dealing with your kids? You get what you give, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You demean your husband My husband is equally handicapped in terms of manners, kindness, helpfulness, social skills, organizational and planning skills, and household help. and then are surprised he doesn't support you in dealing with your kids? You get what you give, OP.

+1. If you think this of your husband, surely he’s picked up on this. It seems that neither of you respect each other, and it’s hard for kids to learn social skills from their parents in an environment like this. Marriage counseling is probably the answer here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You demean your husband My husband is equally handicapped in terms of manners, kindness, helpfulness, social skills, organizational and planning skills, and household help. and then are surprised he doesn't support you in dealing with your kids? You get what you give, OP.

+1. If you think this of your husband, surely he’s picked up on this. It seems that neither of you respect each other, and it’s hard for kids to learn social skills from their parents in an environment like this. Marriage counseling is probably the answer here.

This. Your husband is a nebbish

[Anonymous]

Last three posters, did you miss that OP's husband has no problem with her kids telling her to "shut it" because they don't want to hear it at the ages of 8 and 10? If her husband speaks to others this way, he certainly is handicap in manners and kindness.