trusts and inlaws

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here - my worry is that we don’t know who they will be at 18 or what they will be able to handle. I partied a little too much when I first went to college and then got my act together when I realized I needed the grades to get a good job. And examples like that are minor. I have 3 - who knows if one will struggle with drugs or drinking, with mental health issues that could be made worse with no purpose, with motivation issues etc etc. Millions of dollars in cash with no carrots or sticks tied to it will make any of these problems worse and I’m not delusional to think I can somehow parent so perfectly that I will raise 3 perfect kids with no struggles in the transition to adulthood

DH and I also made a lot of money and their college, first cars and other needs will be met. They’re already starting adulthood on 3rd base but yes I want to make sure they’re motivated to see run home (bad analogy but you get the gist)

And yes they are mad at us because we pushed back when they tried to move on our street, because we won’t let the 4yo stay with them the full summer, bc I get annoyed when they give the 4yo hundreds of dollars in cash telling him he doesn’t “have to do chores for quarters at home anymore because he can now buy anything he wants”. The 4yo has adhd and a sensory processing disorder that causes behavioral problems, with the guidance of a neuropsych we have him in an evidence based program that involves earning toys and other rewards, so yes I push back at the 2x a month of average “surprise” presents they try to send him, and yes I push back on my fil telling my kids things like “you can have secrets with grandpa - we can have special things just between you and me” for many many reasons. They’re wild

Noooooooooo. Nooooooo. There are bigger problems here than just the money. The secrets thing, the going behind your back, the anger. Hate to say it, but you may need some legal help here. If any relative told my child "we have secrets between you and me" that would be the end.
And, I don't want to start something new here, but this is grooming. Straight up. It's time to look into this. I found this to be very alarming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I agree with you but it their money and their choice. There is nothing you can do. You can talk to your children and see if they will agree to a plan that they do not get money until they are 25.

Who would agree to that?

I did. My grandparents set up a UTMA account for my siblings and me when I was little, and at 18 it would have become mine. But my dad said “either you can sign this document letting me control this money until you are 31 and your mother and I will continue to add the tax allowed 30k every year, or you get it now and that’s it”. So I signed it, happily. My parents paid for college and grad school and I got a job after grad school and could easily support myself. When I bought my first house at 28, my dad gave me a loan against the UTMA, which I paid back when I got the money 3 years later.

Why age 31? It seems random. Did he figure you’d be married with kids by then and would pass the money onto them rather than (in his opinion) spend it frivolously in your 20s?

Yes. I think my dad figured that by 31, I’d either be settled and responsible or…not and it probably wouldn’t matter whether you had the money or not. Il

I do not consider this a sweet story, rather a terribly controlling father. Nothing was stopping him from giving you the 30k a year plus access to the trust at 18 with a gentle “I trust you to spend your trust wisely.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Assuming your kids are young, I would drop this discussions entirely. Once the first kid is closer to 16, I would bring it up again. By then, they might actually start to see that teenagers are dumb and giving them lots of money is stupid. They might also get past some of their ridiculousness by then.

But if they die before then... no changes will be possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think you raise your kids right, OP, and it won't be a problem.

We live a frugal lifestyle but have significant assets. My children know this, and yet, I have taught them to work hard, to like learning, to enjoy intellectual challenges. I am not worried about them in the slighest.

I think both you and your in-laws are being very intense and ridiculous over this. The kids are so little! There's no point in fighting this. Just be glad the money is there, and do the hard work of parenting so they use it well.

Just curious... how old are your kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you but it their money and their choice. There is nothing you can do. You can talk to your children and see if they will agree to a plan that they do not get money until they are 25.

Who would agree to that?

I did. My grandparents set up a UTMA account for my siblings and me when I was little, and at 18 it would have become mine. But my dad said “either you can sign this document letting me control this money until you are 31 and your mother and I will continue to add the tax allowed 30k every year, or you get it now and that’s it”. So I signed it, happily. My parents paid for college and grad school and I got a job after grad school and could easily support myself. When I bought my first house at 28, my dad gave me a loan against the UTMA, which I paid back when I got the money 3 years later.

I got my trust at 18. I purchased a house in my college town, it appreciated 50k by the time I sold it 4 years later. I was able to pay for grad school. At 22 I bought a rowhouse in DC. Was able to pay for my own wedding at 25, bought a huge house at 27. Started IVF at 30. So many things I would have been able to afford. It didn’t change the trajectory of my life or make me a bum, just allowed me to afford the things I wanted earlier. At least your parents were paying you 31k a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you but it their money and their choice. There is nothing you can do. You can talk to your children and see if they will agree to a plan that they do not get money until they are 25.

Who would agree to that?

I did. My grandparents set up a UTMA account for my siblings and me when I was little, and at 18 it would have become mine. But my dad said “either you can sign this document letting me control this money until you are 31 and your mother and I will continue to add the tax allowed 30k every year, or you get it now and that’s it”. So I signed it, happily. My parents paid for college and grad school and I got a job after grad school and could easily support myself. When I bought my first house at 28, my dad gave me a loan against the UTMA, which I paid back when I got the money 3 years later.

Why age 31? It seems random. Did he figure you’d be married with kids by then and would pass the money onto them rather than (in his opinion) spend it frivolously in your 20s?

Yes. I think my dad figured that by 31, I’d either be settled and responsible or…not and it probably wouldn’t matter whether you had the money or not. Il

I do not consider this a sweet story, rather a terribly controlling father. Nothing was stopping him from giving you the 30k a year plus access to the trust at 18 with a gentle “I trust you to spend your trust wisely.”

I’m the PP and I didn’t say it was sweet. But I think my dad was right - I didn’t need a couple million dollars at 18…maybe I would have saved it or maybe I would have bought a BMW convertible and a couple of birkin bags. But when I got the money at 31 I had a 2 year old and a kid on the way and a stable job and a stable marriage. That money went right into our investment accounts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let it go.
We have rich relatives who are very generous as well. My kids say thank you - write thank you notes - clear out their old stuff and donate etc.
We talk about how fortunate they are and how the relatives are self made - and how the relatives lived before they were successful.
They know it is generous to get a sweatshirt that costs $175 (my 14 YO just got an "Aviator" brand as a birthday gift) and that this is not something that we could do. We also talk about what that amount of money could do for others so they understand what we value.
My oldest is in 10th grade and we sat down to talk about college and how we have saved and made choices to support him so that he will not need to consider finances when deciding what the right school is for him.
Next year he will get a car. He proposed a used Honda as an option.

I don't think you get this situation. We aren't talking about a car or an expensive shirt. They will inherit millions...as in- won't have to work.

This is OP (not a pp) - but that’s my worry also, at that age I thought $100k was a HUGE salary and with millions you’d never have to work. And I was “financially literate” - I just had no concept of how much decisions cost (like living close for a short commute vs way out in the burbs, paying for private school for a child with LD, traveling for a family of 5 vs a backpacker of 1). So by the time I realized that $5m wasn’t enough to live it up forever, it’d be too late to pursue the long term career I’d have gone after at 22

[Anonymous]

I would like to know some of the specifics that they want to do now that you think would spoil your children. Can you provide real examples?

[Anonymous]

An honest question op. Is there some cultural component to this? How were you raised as opposed to how they raise kids?
Is it also possible that you have dug in, perhaps unnecessarily in drawing the line, because you might be somewhat similar to your FIL?
Is that why you are butting heads? It is very common in many cultures that kids spend all summers in other countries with their grandparents, I am not saying you should allow it if you are not comfortable with it, I am just saying it is often done in immigrant families to help working parents out.
What if you went for a few weeks and made it into a nice vacation, regardless of where ILS place is, in the States or if they wanted to treat you all to a nice vacation somewhere fancy?
What if you invite them over for a couple of weeks, suggest they stay in a hotel though. They are clearly still energetic enough, all this might change as they age more. They will have less energy and less desire to be with kids.
Your kids are young and you have no idea yet how they will turn out, what their work ethnic, etc. will be.
It appears to me that your FIL has dug in because you have dug in with some totally irrelevant control issues.
Stop projecting your fear to your kids as well.
Perhaps loving grandparents can be an awesome thing for kids' self esteem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:**I understand this is a privileged problem but its also a problem**

My inlaws were very successful immigrants and DH is an only child. They have resented that we haven't let them excessively spoil our 3 kids like they want to (we're not talking about a few extra toys and treats....like really ridiculous things that would actually spoil the kids if allowed). They do it to try to be the most loved / see huge reactions from the kids etc....its a very self serving desire to spoil and not in the kids interests to have their every wish granted and every burden relieved by throwing money at it.

They informed us on our last visit that they've established a trust for each child to get several million when they turn 18 and "its between us and our grandkids and there's nothing you can do about it". We don't need the money ourselves, but I absolutely 100% DO NOT want my children to be given millions of dollars as a young adult. I've seen kids lose motivation entirely when they can float by for awhile and see absolutely no good in this. Why not set up a trust for when they're older so they still need to pick a career but have more flexibility to not have to save for retirement or some other way where an 18yo isn't being given a stupid amount of money when they're still trying to figure out life.

DH hates this also but is sticking his head in the sand b/c he feels enormous pressure and guilt from his parents. Is there anything at all we can do about this?

OP I totally get it. I think people are quick to roll their eyes when privileged people share these things. It is why a lot of emotional, verbal and physical abuse in wealthy families gets swept under the rug. They are being entitled and potentially abusive with their money in the opposite way of what people complain about on here. In stead of saying " we have money and you can't have it!", they are flaunting their money, undermining your parenting and potentially causing a harmful situation to their grandchildren in an effort to buy love.

Here are safe and healthy ways to throw money around as a grandparent:
-Putting it into a 529 for grandkid
-helping pay medical expenses for a grandkid with health issues or paying for therapies for a grandkid with special needs
-Putting it in a trust where they only get a small percentage at 25, more at 35 and the rest at say 40 or 45
-oaying for private school

Here are unhealthy ways to throw money around as grandparents:
-buying 16 year old a fancy new car without parental permission
-Giving large sums of money to teenagers or young adults without parental input
-Paying for trips or other things the parents already forbid when the kid is under 18
-buying unsafe "toys" like a motorcycle, or vespa to make grandkid happy


Honestly, this would be worthy of getting into couple's counseling. They have the potential to cause great harm to your kids if your kids are not mature and responsible enough to deal with the responsibility of that much money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you but it their money and their choice. There is nothing you can do. You can talk to your children and see if they will agree to a plan that they do not get money until they are 25.

Yep. My FIL bought our DC1 a Tesla when he got into college and pays for insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here - my worry is that we don’t know who they will be at 18 or what they will be able to handle. I partied a little too much when I first went to college and then got my act together when I realized I needed the grades to get a good job. And examples like that are minor. I have 3 - who knows if one will struggle with drugs or drinking, with mental health issues that could be made worse with no purpose, with motivation issues etc etc. Millions of dollars in cash with no carrots or sticks tied to it will make any of these problems worse and I’m not delusional to think I can somehow parent so perfectly that I will raise 3 perfect kids with no struggles in the transition to adulthood

DH and I also made a lot of money and their college, first cars and other needs will be met. They’re already starting adulthood on 3rd base but yes I want to make sure they’re motivated to see run home (bad analogy but you get the gist)

And yes they are mad at us because we pushed back when they tried to move on our street, because we won’t let the 4yo stay with them the full summer, bc I get annoyed when they give the 4yo hundreds of dollars in cash telling him he doesn’t “have to do chores for quarters at home anymore because he can now buy anything he wants”. The 4yo has adhd and a sensory processing disorder that causes behavioral problems, with the guidance of a neuropsych we have him in an evidence based program that involves earning toys and other rewards, so yes I push back at the 2x a month of average “surprise” presents they try to send him, and yes I push back on my fil telling my kids things like “you can have secrets with grandpa - we can have special things just between you and me” for many many reasons. They’re wild

OP, where does your husband stand on all of this? Could he ask his parents for a copy of the trust so you all can determine what it acutally says? It might be fine and you are worrying for nothing. Any good trusts and estates attorney would have recommended to them certain provisions for access to the money. Most recommend not having full access until 30, 35 or 40 depending on the attorney. They should have appointed one or more trustees who will likely be your DH and siblings or other relatives or an attorney/accountant who are conservative by nature. Hopefully if you see what the trust documents actually say, you will feel better and if they are something crazy like they get millions outright at 18 your DH can work with them to get some better structure in place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All these people says bc it’s fine - you would handle over millions to your 18yo if you had it to spare? Versus waiting until they were older?

Waiting til they are older is preferable, but it doesn’t sound like that’s on the table here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you but it their money and their choice. There is nothing you can do. You can talk to your children and see if they will agree to a plan that they do not get money until they are 25.

Who would agree to that?

I trusted my parents so I absolutely would have done whatever they directed me to do. Especially if I had a million dollars dropped in my lap. Quite honestly, I would have told them to manage it and asked them to control it. I wouldn't have wanted to be that dumb kid who blew millions and I would have taken their advice. Which would have been: go to college, grad school, get a job. This will pay for that.