Budgeting for Private School -- Convince my spouse

[Anonymous]

How much do you have in an emergency savings account right now? I would be a little nervous about the budget you laid out given our own recent bad luck in suddenly needing a new furnace, and some other emergency expenses. You don't have a ton of slack in your current monthly expenses.

That being said, our budget is similar to yours and we have 2 kids in a private school that we absolutely love but is our biggest expense. We are in the Whitman cluster and we still spend more than our mortgage on tuition, and we've agreed that we are both planning to work a few extra years to afford this luxury. It really is just a values decision, if you'd rather retire earlier or have more travel funds something has to give. Our family has agreed that our kids' tuition comes first but I certainly understand why other families make different decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we have a disagreement on whether we should continue private school, coming down to how to afford it and not have to sacrifice travel (which is very important to my spouse for both visiting family as well as exposing our kids to the world)

So the biggest concern is that we will have to reduce vacation travel and not be saving enough for college.

Here's our budget, and I'm posting it here because I want the Independent school perspective; money forum will surely tear this stuff apart. We have 3 kids, though they will only be in private school 2 at time because of the age difference; we will have college costs along with private school, but at that point loans would be an option. House is an old crummy house with an addition, which is nice enough but expensive because it is close in with "good" schools which we now realize are circling the drain.

We have considered moving, but house prices have gone up so much in places that we think would be better options and it just seems insurrmountable and we aren't even sure public schools are actually better there (we hear a lot of bad news about FCPS, MCPS, APS on this forum, so hard to tell what is truth) Kids are thriving at private, so we are reluctant to rock the boat.

Take home Income $20,040

House -$5,100
Extended Day -$300
Life Insurance -$200
Music Lessons -$456
Internet -$50
Mobile -$300
Private School -$5,667

----------------------------
Fixed Total -$12,139
----------------------------

Home Repair -$1,167
Streaming -$40
Groceries -$1,500
Camps -$500
Kids Activities -$167
Cleaner -$300
Cars -$200
Utils -$375
Med -$133
Shop Misc -$625

----------------------------
Discretionary Total -$5,007
----------------------------

Holidays -$250
Vacation -$667
Beach Week -$417

----------------------------
Travel Total -$1,333
----------------------------

----------------------------
Net Savings $1,561
----------------------------

You're going to pay far more in tuition payments than you would be in extra mortgage payments

+1 Theoretically, based on this budget, OP could spend up to 10.6k on mortgage payments (disclaimer: I am not advising this course of action). Bet you could get good public schools with that budget! And the mortgage won't increase 3-5%/year.

That would be on a cash flow basis yes, but that is signing up for a 30-year mortgage, and of course if housing prices fall we could be very vulnerable.

Our current home we purchased for $1.2M; so if we sell we think we could swing a $1.6M house. So suggest a top school district with move in ready 4-bedroom SFH for $1.6M with short commute to capital hill (we go in 3x week). And then we can discuss if that school district is actually performing -- we hear a lot of grief from all public school districts, and we how they are not really concerned about the high achieving students and kind of leave them to their own devices these days.

The point is you could go higher than $1.6 because you're currently throwing almost $6k/month at school. And it doesn't make much sense that a thirty year mortgage would unsettle you right after you stated you're planning to work until your 70s to make up for your low savings rate now. You can sell and downsize when your last kid goes to college and recapture some of that expense, but you can never get back the ~$70k/year you're spending on private schools.

Your comment about how good schools aren't actually good anyway tells me that you're not really open to a solution other than your preferred private school.

At current rates, a $1.7M would be $2k/month more which is about a wash for the total we spend on tuition for all 3 kids over the timespan we are considering.

It's only a wash if you think your $1.7 house would be worth $1.2 or less when your youngest kid graduates.

It very well could be. With WFH DC could become Detroit for all we know.

Please tell me this isn't OP. How can you simultaneously take the position that you absolutely must have a home with a quick convenient commute to downtown, but also no one will live in DC in 10 years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
With 3 children and that budget, you're not wealthy enough for private school, college and retirement. Please no college loans - they will burden your for decades. In-state total cost for college is at least 30K a year now, but these prices have always risen faster than inflation, so you might be paying outrageous sums in the future!

Go to your "good" public school and be attentive parents and invest your savings. You will need them.

Which public schools aren't a train wreck now? We hate to move and be in same pickle but with a higher mortgage and longer commute...

And my spouse is opposed to moving as well, for what its worth -- because we moved HERE for the good schools. We keep moving/making decisions too late to have good outcomes. We should have moved to some "top" rather than "good" school district back when we were young, but we thought kids would be fine wherever they went, and then middle school happened and all the smart kids left our district and our kids spent their day napping in class while teachers re-teach the same thing over and over. Hence our exodus to private school unexpectedly, and now fumbling what the right choice would be.

[Anonymous]

As for schools, there is no perfect school, but unless you are in TN or AL, your public school is going to be just fine if your kids are reasonably studious and you stay engaged as a parent. My kid did private preK-8 and is now at a MCPS magnet and doing wonderfully. Thinking about college and maybe law school. She has some terrific teachers and a solid group of friends. She is actually happier at her public, though that may have more to do with her age (adolescence/middle school is rough!) She has opportunities at her public she would not have at private and has developed good connections with a few of her teachers. Yes, she has some dud teachers, but she did at private school as well. Your kids' success depends mostly on you, not the school they go to. Having money helps...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we have a disagreement on whether we should continue private school, coming down to how to afford it and not have to sacrifice travel (which is very important to my spouse for both visiting family as well as exposing our kids to the world)

So the biggest concern is that we will have to reduce vacation travel and not be saving enough for college.

Here's our budget, and I'm posting it here because I want the Independent school perspective; money forum will surely tear this stuff apart. We have 3 kids, though they will only be in private school 2 at time because of the age difference; we will have college costs along with private school, but at that point loans would be an option. House is an old crummy house with an addition, which is nice enough but expensive because it is close in with "good" schools which we now realize are circling the drain.

We have considered moving, but house prices have gone up so much in places that we think would be better options and it just seems insurrmountable and we aren't even sure public schools are actually better there (we hear a lot of bad news about FCPS, MCPS, APS on this forum, so hard to tell what is truth) Kids are thriving at private, so we are reluctant to rock the boat.

Take home Income $20,040

House -$5,100
Extended Day -$300
Life Insurance -$200
Music Lessons -$456
Internet -$50
Mobile -$300
Private School -$5,667

----------------------------
Fixed Total -$12,139
----------------------------

Home Repair -$1,167
Streaming -$40
Groceries -$1,500
Camps -$500
Kids Activities -$167
Cleaner -$300
Cars -$200
Utils -$375
Med -$133
Shop Misc -$625

----------------------------
Discretionary Total -$5,007
----------------------------

Holidays -$250
Vacation -$667
Beach Week -$417

----------------------------
Travel Total -$1,333
----------------------------

----------------------------
Net Savings $1,561
----------------------------

You're going to pay far more in tuition payments than you would be in extra mortgage payments

+1 Theoretically, based on this budget, OP could spend up to 10.6k on mortgage payments (disclaimer: I am not advising this course of action). Bet you could get good public schools with that budget! And the mortgage won't increase 3-5%/year.

That would be on a cash flow basis yes, but that is signing up for a 30-year mortgage, and of course if housing prices fall we could be very vulnerable.

Our current home we purchased for $1.2M; so if we sell we think we could swing a $1.6M house. So suggest a top school district with move in ready 4-bedroom SFH for $1.6M with short commute to capital hill (we go in 3x week). And then we can discuss if that school district is actually performing -- we hear a lot of grief from all public school districts, and we how they are not really concerned about the high achieving students and kind of leave them to their own devices these days.

The point is you could go higher than $1.6 because you're currently throwing almost $6k/month at school. And it doesn't make much sense that a thirty year mortgage would unsettle you right after you stated you're planning to work until your 70s to make up for your low savings rate now. You can sell and downsize when your last kid goes to college and recapture some of that expense, but you can never get back the ~$70k/year you're spending on private schools.

Your comment about how good schools aren't actually good anyway tells me that you're not really open to a solution other than your preferred private school.

At current rates, a $1.7M would be $2k/month more which is about a wash for the total we spend on tuition for all 3 kids over the timespan we are considering.

It's only a wash if you think your $1.7 house would be worth $1.2 or less when your youngest kid graduates.

It very well could be. With WFH DC could become Detroit for all we know.

Please tell me this isn't OP. How can you simultaneously take the position that you absolutely must have a home with a quick convenient commute to downtown, but also no one will live in DC in 10 years?

Haha, my industry is just really slow to change, so I know I'll be commuting downtown, even as everyone else moves to Florida to WFH - OP

[Anonymous]

what schools are your kids attending for $5600 for two kids?

We have a similar total income and we spend about $4300/month for one high school tuition at a top school. It's doable but is about our max. It makes zero financial sense but at this point (two years in) it's a done deal. I'm honestly not sure I would do it over again. The education is fabulous (so much better than our subpar public was) but honestly, does one's high school education have to be the best and most challenging and well-rounded as possible? NO. On one hand I think "there is nothing better to spend money on than education?" and on the other I'm like "this is complete insanity and was a giant mistake".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As for schools, there is no perfect school, but unless you are in TN or AL, your public school is going to be just fine if your kids are reasonably studious and you stay engaged as a parent. My kid did private preK-8 and is now at a MCPS magnet and doing wonderfully. Thinking about college and maybe law school. She has some terrific teachers and a solid group of friends. She is actually happier at her public, though that may have more to do with her age (adolescence/middle school is rough!) She has opportunities at her public she would not have at private and has developed good connections with a few of her teachers. Yes, she has some dud teachers, but she did at private school as well. Your kids' success depends mostly on you, not the school they go to. Having money helps...

Yes, we think a magnet school would be good, but how do you ensure you will get into one? Our current school doesn't differentiate really until 11th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what schools are your kids attending for $5600 for two kids?

We have a similar total income and we spend about $4300/month for one high school tuition at a top school. It's doable but is about our max. It makes zero financial sense but at this point (two years in) it's a done deal. I'm honestly not sure I would do it over again. The education is fabulous (so much better than our subpar public was) but honestly, does one's high school education have to be the best and most challenging and well-rounded as possible? NO. On one hand I think "there is nothing better to spend money on than education?" and on the other I'm like "this is complete insanity and was a giant mistake".

I went to an elite school from a crappy high school, and was a miserable experience that rocked by confidence and really hindered my career since I was behind in college the entire time while my classmates were basically coasting since high school had laid strong foundation.

I see our current high school just not caring about the 'A' students, and in fact again most of my child's cohort of gifted students has left the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for schools, there is no perfect school, but unless you are in TN or AL, your public school is going to be just fine if your kids are reasonably studious and you stay engaged as a parent. My kid did private preK-8 and is now at a MCPS magnet and doing wonderfully. Thinking about college and maybe law school. She has some terrific teachers and a solid group of friends. She is actually happier at her public, though that may have more to do with her age (adolescence/middle school is rough!) She has opportunities at her public she would not have at private and has developed good connections with a few of her teachers. Yes, she has some dud teachers, but she did at private school as well. Your kids' success depends mostly on you, not the school they go to. Having money helps...

Yes, we think a magnet school would be good, but how do you ensure you will get into one? Our current school doesn't differentiate really until 11th grade.

There are good options in a lot of schools now, even without one of the more prestigious magnets. Many MCPS schools now have local IB programs, there's the Poolesville ecology and sci/math programs that are far away, but take a bunch of kids and bus them. Plus you can apply to the magnet and if DC doesn't get it, stick with private. You have choices. Maybe agree to stick with private through 8th and re-evaluate. Kids don't need extreme rigor to be successful. They need engaged parents and safe schools. Talk to your kids. Read with them. Heck, my we read a Greek tragedy with our DD during COVID year because she needed the support to understand the book. Education is not a race. We all end up in the grave. You have to enjoy the journey. And if that's with private school, great! You can make it work with sacrifices. And if you think you'd enjoy travel and fun camps more, switch to public. There are no truly bad outcomes here from what I see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what schools are your kids attending for $5600 for two kids?

We have a similar total income and we spend about $4300/month for one high school tuition at a top school. It's doable but is about our max. It makes zero financial sense but at this point (two years in) it's a done deal. I'm honestly not sure I would do it over again. The education is fabulous (so much better than our subpar public was) but honestly, does one's high school education have to be the best and most challenging and well-rounded as possible? NO. On one hand I think "there is nothing better to spend money on than education?" and on the other I'm like "this is complete insanity and was a giant mistake".

I went to an elite school from a crappy high school, and was a miserable experience that rocked by confidence and really hindered my career since I was behind in college the entire time while my classmates were basically coasting since high school had laid strong foundation.

I see our current high school just not caring about the 'A' students, and in fact again most of my child's cohort of gifted students has left the system.

I don't disagree that the focus is currently on closing the achievement gap, but teachers like to teach the engaged, smart kids. There are plenty of these kids in your public school. AP classes are abundant in most of the area and many kids start with 1 in 9th grade. This sounds like fear-mongering. Most parents can't afford private schools and there aren't enough spots for everyone to go to them anyway. I attended DC's spring musical and holy cow! those are some smart kids and talented musicians. Teachers go the extra mile for those kids and that's never going to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what schools are your kids attending for $5600 for two kids?

We have a similar total income and we spend about $4300/month for one high school tuition at a top school. It's doable but is about our max. It makes zero financial sense but at this point (two years in) it's a done deal. I'm honestly not sure I would do it over again. The education is fabulous (so much better than our subpar public was) but honestly, does one's high school education have to be the best and most challenging and well-rounded as possible? NO. On one hand I think "there is nothing better to spend money on than education?" and on the other I'm like "this is complete insanity and was a giant mistake".

I went to an elite school from a crappy high school, and was a miserable experience that rocked by confidence and really hindered my career since I was behind in college the entire time while my classmates were basically coasting since high school had laid strong foundation.

I see our current high school just not caring about the 'A' students, and in fact again most of my child's cohort of gifted students has left the system.

I'm the poster you're replying to and ironically I also went to a crappy high school and hit a good college woefully underprepared. I got a C in my first semester of chemistry while all my classmates from good high schools coasted to As. I learned how to study within a few months and caught up but my pre-med dreams were effectively over
with that C.
That said, there is a WIDE gap between 1)horrible high school that teaches nothing (like mine) and 2)Big3 in DC which routinely graduates kids who find the classes at the top universities to be easy in comparison to high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are some houses for sale in the Longfellow MS draw area that are less that 1.6 for a 4 bedroom. I thought my DS's gifted education at Longfellow was excellent (especially in Math). It's not that far from Capital Hill especially if your DH and you are commuting together (can take 66 for free).

I looked at those houses, and every one is on a busy road or backs to a freeway or are a teardown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for schools, there is no perfect school, but unless you are in TN or AL, your public school is going to be just fine if your kids are reasonably studious and you stay engaged as a parent. My kid did private preK-8 and is now at a MCPS magnet and doing wonderfully. Thinking about college and maybe law school. She has some terrific teachers and a solid group of friends. She is actually happier at her public, though that may have more to do with her age (adolescence/middle school is rough!) She has opportunities at her public she would not have at private and has developed good connections with a few of her teachers. Yes, she has some dud teachers, but she did at private school as well. Your kids' success depends mostly on you, not the school they go to. Having money helps...

Yes, we think a magnet school would be good, but how do you ensure you will get into one? Our current school doesn't differentiate really until 11th grade.

There are good options in a lot of schools now, even without one of the more prestigious magnets. Many MCPS schools now have local IB programs, there's the Poolesville ecology and sci/math programs that are far away, but take a bunch of kids and bus them. Plus you can apply to the magnet and if DC doesn't get it, stick with private. You have choices. Maybe agree to stick with private through 8th and re-evaluate. Kids don't need extreme rigor to be successful. They need engaged parents and safe schools. Talk to your kids. Read with them. Heck, my we read a Greek tragedy with our DD during COVID year because she needed the support to understand the book. Education is not a race. We all end up in the grave. You have to enjoy the journey. And if that's with private school, great! You can make it work with sacrifices. And if you think you'd enjoy travel and fun camps more, switch to public. There are no truly bad outcomes here from what I see.

We don't live in MCPS so I assume we can't apply until we move there first? Our district does not have magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what schools are your kids attending for $5600 for two kids?

We have a similar total income and we spend about $4300/month for one high school tuition at a top school. It's doable but is about our max. It makes zero financial sense but at this point (two years in) it's a done deal. I'm honestly not sure I would do it over again. The education is fabulous (so much better than our subpar public was) but honestly, does one's high school education have to be the best and most challenging and well-rounded as possible? NO. On one hand I think "there is nothing better to spend money on than education?" and on the other I'm like "this is complete insanity and was a giant mistake".

I went to an elite school from a crappy high school, and was a miserable experience that rocked by confidence and really hindered my career since I was behind in college the entire time while my classmates were basically coasting since high school had laid strong foundation.

I see our current high school just not caring about the 'A' students, and in fact again most of my child's cohort of gifted students has left the system.

I don't disagree that the focus is currently on closing the achievement gap, but teachers like to teach the engaged, smart kids. There are plenty of these kids in your public school. AP classes are abundant in most of the area and many kids start with 1 in 9th grade. This sounds like fear-mongering. Most parents can't afford private schools and there aren't enough spots for everyone to go to them anyway. I attended DC's spring musical and holy cow! those are some smart kids and talented musicians. Teachers go the extra mile for those kids and that's never going to change.

Our local high school only has 1 AP class per grade until 11th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what schools are your kids attending for $5600 for two kids?

We have a similar total income and we spend about $4300/month for one high school tuition at a top school. It's doable but is about our max. It makes zero financial sense but at this point (two years in) it's a done deal. I'm honestly not sure I would do it over again. The education is fabulous (so much better than our subpar public was) but honestly, does one's high school education have to be the best and most challenging and well-rounded as possible? NO. On one hand I think "there is nothing better to spend money on than education?" and on the other I'm like "this is complete insanity and was a giant mistake".

I went to an elite school from a crappy high school, and was a miserable experience that rocked by confidence and really hindered my career since I was behind in college the entire time while my classmates were basically coasting since high school had laid strong foundation.

I see our current high school just not caring about the 'A' students, and in fact again most of my child's cohort of gifted students has left the system.

I'm the poster you're replying to and ironically I also went to a crappy high school and hit a good college woefully underprepared. I got a C in my first semester of chemistry while all my classmates from good high schools coasted to As. I learned how to study within a few months and caught up but my pre-med dreams were effectively over
with that C.
That said, there is a WIDE gap between 1)horrible high school that teaches nothing (like mine) and 2)Big3 in DC which routinely graduates kids who find the classes at the top universities to be easy in comparison to high school.

I'm so sorry, that is truly tragic. I think you are forgetting how much more competitive college is now than when we went; GenX/Xenials had it easier because there were fewer of us!

Sure I agree there is a spectrum, I just don't know how to find those excellent local high schools since every school district is being unsettled by pandemic and politics.