Negotiations: Why is Ukraine President saying there could be a 3rd world war?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should simply send in a special ops force or drone, etc. to kill Putin. Cut the head off of the snake. Kill the other oligarchs if necessary. Then take over their government, implement a western style government hold democratic elections, then get out. Potentially, break up their country first between European high population regions and large natural resource areas. Maybe even create the first UN run neutral lands with shared natural resource allocations.

Then systematically do this to all countries run by despots and dictators such as NK, Venezuela, sub-Saharan African countries, Iran, Syria, etc. until western-style governments driven by the people are installed throughout the world. We can all them compete on business and productivity and innovation and not based on a handful of uber-powerful sociopaths or religious zealots. How about that?

We should definitely try to kill Putin. And I’m sure the US is quietly looking at just that. But he has a reputation on for being paranoid and has ridiculous security. It may not be possible.

We should take a long, hard look at Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan before we head into a nation building spree. It costs so much in terms of money and lives and never ends well for us. Russia is huge, has nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and shows no signs of wanting a US puppet regime.

There’s an executive order forbidding the US from assassinating foreign leaders.

The cool thing about executive orders is the executive can rescind them. We pulled Sadat out of his hidey hole and hung him. We can certainly give Ukraine the drone to do the deed, give them the intelligence and logistical support they need, or have a classified suspension of the EO. What exactly is the recourse after Putin’s dead? Russia sues us citing the EO?

Sadam not Sadat. Plus, the US did not hang him. He was turned over to the Iraqi government who tried him for crimes against humanity he committed in Iraq in the 1980s. He was found guilty, appealed and his judgment was confirmed by the Iraqi Supreme Court.

For the US to kill a foreign leader who did not directly order an attack on the US or US persons would be a violation of an EO that enjoyed bipartisan presidential support - Ford, Carter and Reagan - and was initially promulgated in response to Congressional hearings on the history of US foreign leader assassination attempts (which never panned out the way the US thought it would). Yes, we have killed other foreigners (and even at least one American outside the US), in the War on Terror, but those were individuals who had a finding against them that they were responsible for an attack on US persons or were imminently planning such an attack.

Reasonable people can disagree whether the findings were sufficient or a wise policy choice, but those killings are not at all like just killing Putin because of what he’s doing in Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should simply send in a special ops force or drone, etc. to kill Putin. Cut the head off of the snake. Kill the other oligarchs if necessary. Then take over their government, implement a western style government hold democratic elections, then get out. Potentially, break up their country first between European high population regions and large natural resource areas. Maybe even create the first UN run neutral lands with shared natural resource allocations.

Then systematically do this to all countries run by despots and dictators such as NK, Venezuela, sub-Saharan African countries, Iran, Syria, etc. until western-style governments driven by the people are installed throughout the world. We can all them compete on business and productivity and innovation and not based on a handful of uber-powerful sociopaths or religious zealots. How about that?

We should definitely try to kill Putin. And I’m sure the US is quietly looking at just that. But he has a reputation on for being paranoid and has ridiculous security. It may not be possible.

We should take a long, hard look at Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan before we head into a nation building spree. It costs so much in terms of money and lives and never ends well for us. Russia is huge, has nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and shows no signs of wanting a US puppet regime.

There’s an executive order forbidding the US from assassinating foreign leaders.

The cool thing about executive orders is the executive can rescind them. We pulled Sadat out of his hidey hole and hung him. We can certainly give Ukraine the drone to do the deed, give them the intelligence and logistical support they need, or have a classified suspension of the EO. What exactly is the recourse after Putin’s dead? Russia sues us citing the EO?

Let me think . . . his replacement nuking us? That's what I'd fear. I don't think this is like Wizard of Oz, wicked witch dies and everyone runs into the streets singing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should simply send in a special ops force or drone, etc. to kill Putin. Cut the head off of the snake. Kill the other oligarchs if necessary. Then take over their government, implement a western style government hold democratic elections, then get out. Potentially, break up their country first between European high population regions and large natural resource areas. Maybe even create the first UN run neutral lands with shared natural resource allocations.

Then systematically do this to all countries run by despots and dictators such as NK, Venezuela, sub-Saharan African countries, Iran, Syria, etc. until western-style governments driven by the people are installed throughout the world. We can all them compete on business and productivity and innovation and not based on a handful of uber-powerful sociopaths or religious zealots. How about that?

Lol you tried it in Iraq and got what to show for it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should simply send in a special ops force or drone, etc. to kill Putin. Cut the head off of the snake. Kill the other oligarchs if necessary. Then take over their government, implement a western style government hold democratic elections, then get out. Potentially, break up their country first between European high population regions and large natural resource areas. Maybe even create the first UN run neutral lands with shared natural resource allocations.

Then systematically do this to all countries run by despots and dictators such as NK, Venezuela, sub-Saharan African countries, Iran, Syria, etc. until western-style governments driven by the people are installed throughout the world. We can all them compete on business and productivity and innovation and not based on a handful of uber-powerful sociopaths or religious zealots. How about that?

Lol you tried it in Iraq and got what to show for it?

Dp- who is “you”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should simply send in a special ops force or drone, etc. to kill Putin. Cut the head off of the snake. Kill the other oligarchs if necessary. Then take over their government, implement a western style government hold democratic elections, then get out. Potentially, break up their country first between European high population regions and large natural resource areas. Maybe even create the first UN run neutral lands with shared natural resource allocations.

Then systematically do this to all countries run by despots and dictators such as NK, Venezuela, sub-Saharan African countries, Iran, Syria, etc. until western-style governments driven by the people are installed throughout the world. We can all them compete on business and productivity and innovation and not based on a handful of uber-powerful sociopaths or religious zealots. How about that?

Lol you tried it in Iraq and got what to show for it?

Dp- who is “you”?

You trigger happy armchair warriors you.

[Anonymous]

Zelensky is, unfortunately, correct. Putin will keep escalating in such cruel and brutal ways that Europe will have no choice but to intervene. Putin hates the West and has been agitating for the past ten years, even as Western leaders humored him. He will go ballistic now that he is persona non grata.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because he’s worried Putin will be emboldened to attack a NATO country, in which case we would have no choice but to get involved.

This is the saddest thing I have read. So we literally would not be able to get out of going to war? Is there any slim chance, loophole, etc?

Sure. NATO could just allow itself to be attacked and not respond and hope that Putin didn’t attack again.

You think that would be a good idea?

I don’t.

DP. I don’t think Putin wants or plans to attack NATO counties.
Not yet, at least.
I think the best way to avoid WW3 is to stop sending weapons to Ukraine (I know it sounds heartless but unfortunately I don’t see a way to win for the Ukraine, it’s only delaying the inevitable).
I hope I am wrong though.

You are wrong. If the west (and not just the US but Poland, Lithuania, etc.) didn’t want to supply weapons to Ukraine, Putin could physically occupy Ukraine but he could never subjugate it. He has already stated that Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, etc. also belong back in the Russian Federation. Something like 75-85% of Russians are OK with Putin invading Poland. That would surely be WW3.

Zelensky also knows that without air defense, i.e. a way to protect Putin from simply broadly shelling Ukrainian cities, the Russian offensive will continue as long as Putin has bombs. The Ukrainians might be able to fight Russia to a standstill on the ground and even push them back, but Putin can still bomb Ukraine from Russian soil. As Putin loses on the ground, he is more and more likely to strike to draw NATO in - in fact, he will have to do this because otherwise he will not only lose the war but he will lose his grip on power and maybe even his head or his freedom. Putin does not care if all of Russia suffers as long as he can maintain power and he has only been able to do that by provoking NATO so that Russians patriotically rush to Putin’s side in fighting the aggressor.

If he strikes first at NATO, it will be at weapon supplies inside NATO countries or at NATO troops that have been re-positioned closer to the border after the Ukraine invasion in order to protect eastern flank NATO countries. He will argue these pose a threat to Russia even though they have never. een used on Russian soil.

What Zelensky means by a failure to properly arm and defend Ukraine ensures WW3.

By “wrong” I meant I hope there’s a chance that Ukraine wins.
If it signed the Russian memorandum the bombing would stop. Yes Ukrainian leadership would have to go to exile, there would be resistance on the ground, but at least no physical danger to NATO counties. Putin is already weakened by the war. It will take a while for him to go to war and hopefully he would never get to it at all.
I know it sounds cynical but by arming Ukraine NATO puts itself in harm’s way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Zelensky is, unfortunately, correct. Putin will keep escalating in such cruel and brutal ways that Europe will have no choice but to intervene. Putin hates the West and has been agitating for the past ten years, even as Western leaders humored him. He will go ballistic now that he is persona non grata.

I don’t wish him to win of course but if he had his victory he would be calm for a few years at least. And then something could happen… something that would change it all.
He is shelling Ukraine because he didn’t get his 3 day victory. The harder they resist the more atrocities he will commit. It’s the sad truth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zelensky is, unfortunately, correct. Putin will keep escalating in such cruel and brutal ways that Europe will have no choice but to intervene. Putin hates the West and has been agitating for the past ten years, even as Western leaders humored him. He will go ballistic now that he is persona non grata.

I don’t wish him to win of course but if he had his victory he would be calm for a few years at least. And then something could happen… something that would change it all.
He is shelling Ukraine because he didn’t get his 3 day victory. The harder they resist the more atrocities he will commit. It’s the sad truth

If you would only stop talking I wouldn’t have to keep beating you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because he’s worried Putin will be emboldened to attack a NATO country, in which case we would have no choice but to get involved.

This is the saddest thing I have read. So we literally would not be able to get out of going to war? Is there any slim chance, loophole, etc?

Sure. NATO could just allow itself to be attacked and not respond and hope that Putin didn’t attack again.

You think that would be a good idea?

I don’t.

DP. I don’t think Putin wants or plans to attack NATO counties.
Not yet, at least.
I think the best way to avoid WW3 is to stop sending weapons to Ukraine (I know it sounds heartless but unfortunately I don’t see a way to win for the Ukraine, it’s only delaying the inevitable).
I hope I am wrong though.

How to tell me you understand nothing about Putin or geopolitics without telling me you understand nothing about Putin or about geopolitics.

[Anonymous]

It will not be Putin that causes WWIII. It will be eager Murican voters that Biden will feel he needs to placate with another war.
The U.S. has no business in Ukraine or in Russia, ( on the surface, meaning us, regular small people have no business in Russia)we are a self-sufficient country if we want to be. But, war is profit, and Murican industrialists who rule our country love profit.
They will kill all of Russians, Ukrainians, and Americans for a buck more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because he’s worried Putin will be emboldened to attack a NATO country, in which case we would have no choice but to get involved.

This is the saddest thing I have read. So we literally would not be able to get out of going to war? Is there any slim chance, loophole, etc?

Sure. NATO could just allow itself to be attacked and not respond and hope that Putin didn’t attack again.

You think that would be a good idea?

I don’t.

DP. I don’t think Putin wants or plans to attack NATO counties.
Not yet, at least.
I think the best way to avoid WW3 is to stop sending weapons to Ukraine (I know it sounds heartless but unfortunately I don’t see a way to win for the Ukraine, it’s only delaying the inevitable).
I hope I am wrong though.

How to tell me you understand nothing about Putin or geopolitics without telling me you understand nothing about Putin or about geopolitics.

But, you told me so much with your wise, snappy, sarcastic, witty and insane comment? I am so shamed being told off by you... who are so knowledgable about Putin and know everything cause, cause, cause you told me that I know nothing while you said so much....nothing. Warmongering, sad, pathetic POS!

[Anonymous]

“If Zelensky would just roll over and give Putin what he wants, Ukraine would only have to give up actual democracy and a solid economic future tied to Europe. I know it sucks, but I would feel safer here in the United States.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“If Zelensky would just roll over and give Putin what he wants, Ukraine would only have to give up actual democracy and a solid economic future tied to Europe. I know it sucks, but I would feel safer here in the United States.”

This is incorrect. It puts Putin and his nukes at the border of multiple NATO countries. And it gives him control of a country with vast natural resources and control of the Black Sea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“If Zelensky would just roll over and give Putin what he wants, Ukraine would only have to give up actual democracy and a solid economic future tied to Europe. I know it sucks, but I would feel safer here in the United States.”

No one has said nor suggested that, but the dream of a NFZ and serious escalation not by Putin is just a dream.