“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled," Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alito’s legal reasoning should terrify conservatives. It basically would allow very strict gun regulation or bans, removal of rights for corporations to have standing, protecting donations as speech.

Except he says that this applies only to abortion - and we know that it of course does not, but it will be used to strip us of our rights while letting conservatives keep all the guns they want.

You don't need to be some fancy legal scholar to grasp that selectively applying this reasoning is bullcrap. If the reasoning is good enough to overturn roe it is good enough to overturn the others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a depressing thread. That a group of men (and one loony woman) have the right to take all American women's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion to end an unwanted pregnancy is horrifying. But here we are in 2022, and men are still calling the shots, controlling women.

Because women time and time again vote against their OWN interest. The interest of women.
Yeah, you have some who LOVE this ruling, but the majority don't. But I bet my bottom dollar that come november they will vote an R just like always and say it is becasue of taxes (though Rs want to raise middle class tax) or small business (yet Rs haven't done crap for small business) or education (Rs want to get rid of books that make moms have difficult convos with their kids) or some other BS story the Rs will push on them and they will vote to protect themselves from the 'big bad boogie man' that doesn't exist all the while letting the wolf into their homes and bedrooms without batting an eye.

This reminds me of a cartoon i love. It is an axe asking the forest to vote for him to be ruler because he is just like them, made of WOOD! He would never do anything to hurt them. He is just like them!!

Why should we still have to vote to fight for our human rights? The politicization of abortion is the problem. It should be standard healthcare. I’m a white woman and I have voted Democrat in every election of my life. What has it gotten me? What else can I do?

PP, I hear your frustration. I would flip your framing, you aren’t fighting for your rights, SCOTUS/GOP are TAKING AWAY our rights. Voting for Dems has stopped even more horrible bills passing. Think back on the Trump years. Do we really want to go back to that? And todays GOP are even more unhinged.

I know this is an unsatisfactory response. Believe me, I’m disappointed in Dem Congressional leadership. But then I see leaders like Malloy McMarrow and Katie Porter and I have hope.

The history of this country has been about everyone but property-owning white men needing to fight for their rights...though the rights of non-property owning white men were often granted as a way to further oppress Black men (as opposed to hard-won fights). Most of those fights have been extremely bloody. Read about the suffragettes.

Why should we have to fight for these things? Because that's how power works.

Well the whole point of the American democracy experiment is that literal fighting isn’t required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a depressing thread. That a group of men (and one loony woman) have the right to take all American women's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion to end an unwanted pregnancy is horrifying. But here we are in 2022, and men are still calling the shots, controlling women.

Because women time and time again vote against their OWN interest. The interest of women.
Yeah, you have some who LOVE this ruling, but the majority don't. But I bet my bottom dollar that come november they will vote an R just like always and say it is becasue of taxes (though Rs want to raise middle class tax) or small business (yet Rs haven't done crap for small business) or education (Rs want to get rid of books that make moms have difficult convos with their kids) or some other BS story the Rs will push on them and they will vote to protect themselves from the 'big bad boogie man' that doesn't exist all the while letting the wolf into their homes and bedrooms without batting an eye.

This reminds me of a cartoon i love. It is an axe asking the forest to vote for him to be ruler because he is just like them, made of WOOD! He would never do anything to hurt them. He is just like them!!

Why should we still have to vote to fight for our human rights? The politicization of abortion is the problem. It should be standard healthcare. I’m a white woman and I have voted Democrat in every election of my life. What has it gotten me? What else can I do?

This is where I am. WHAT.DO.I.DO???? I"m not rich. I donate to the orgs, the candidates. I vote. I share information?
Where has that gotten me when a bunch of white dudes, and a woman-hating woman, can just snap away 50 years of precedent that has been reaffirmed many times over. The original Roe opinion was penned by a NIXON appointee, FFS.

Why are my human rights up for a vote? Up for a discussion about whether I'm entitled to them? WHy am I now demoted to little more than the worth of my uterus?

Exactly. It’s surreal.

It's not surreal. Women have not been equal in this country ever. The surprising thing is that we are going backward, but I'm baffled that you all are expressing so much shock that our "human rights" are being suppressed. That's been true forever. This is just one more item in the grabbag of the dehumanization of women and minorities in this country.

I'm curious how many of the people who are just flabbergasted at the idea that you might have to vote, let alone do more than vote, to have your rights protected are not white. I don't feel like anyone who isn't white in this country has ever been under the delusion that their rights aren't up for debate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a depressing thread. That a group of men (and one loony woman) have the right to take all American women's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion to end an unwanted pregnancy is horrifying. But here we are in 2022, and men are still calling the shots, controlling women.

Because women time and time again vote against their OWN interest. The interest of women.
Yeah, you have some who LOVE this ruling, but the majority don't. But I bet my bottom dollar that come november they will vote an R just like always and say it is becasue of taxes (though Rs want to raise middle class tax) or small business (yet Rs haven't done crap for small business) or education (Rs want to get rid of books that make moms have difficult convos with their kids) or some other BS story the Rs will push on them and they will vote to protect themselves from the 'big bad boogie man' that doesn't exist all the while letting the wolf into their homes and bedrooms without batting an eye.

This reminds me of a cartoon i love. It is an axe asking the forest to vote for him to be ruler because he is just like them, made of WOOD! He would never do anything to hurt them. He is just like them!!

Why should we still have to vote to fight for our human rights? The politicization of abortion is the problem. It should be standard healthcare. I’m a white woman and I have voted Democrat in every election of my life. What has it gotten me? What else can I do?

PP, I hear your frustration. I would flip your framing, you aren’t fighting for your rights, SCOTUS/GOP are TAKING AWAY our rights. Voting for Dems has stopped even more horrible bills passing. Think back on the Trump years. Do we really want to go back to that? And todays GOP are even more unhinged.

I know this is an unsatisfactory response. Believe me, I’m disappointed in Dem Congressional leadership. But then I see leaders like Malloy McMarrow and Katie Porter and I have hope.

The history of this country has been about everyone but property-owning white men needing to fight for their rights...though the rights of non-property owning white men were often granted as a way to further oppress Black men (as opposed to hard-won fights). Most of those fights have been extremely bloody. Read about the suffragettes.

Why should we have to fight for these things? Because that's how power works.

Well the whole point of the American democracy experiment is that literal fighting isn’t required.

You may think that's the point, but it's literally never been the reality. Alito's opinion is radical, and it's also pointing out the gaps in the text of the Constitution. Women are not explicitly protected in the Constitution. Even after the 14th Amendment was passed, do you know how many Black people were killed just for Black kids and college students to receive the same educational opportunities as white kids and how long it took?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a depressing thread. That a group of men (and one loony woman) have the right to take all American women's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion to end an unwanted pregnancy is horrifying. But here we are in 2022, and men are still calling the shots, controlling women.

Because women time and time again vote against their OWN interest. The interest of women.
Yeah, you have some who LOVE this ruling, but the majority don't. But I bet my bottom dollar that come november they will vote an R just like always and say it is becasue of taxes (though Rs want to raise middle class tax) or small business (yet Rs haven't done crap for small business) or education (Rs want to get rid of books that make moms have difficult convos with their kids) or some other BS story the Rs will push on them and they will vote to protect themselves from the 'big bad boogie man' that doesn't exist all the while letting the wolf into their homes and bedrooms without batting an eye.

This reminds me of a cartoon i love. It is an axe asking the forest to vote for him to be ruler because he is just like them, made of WOOD! He would never do anything to hurt them. He is just like them!!

Why should we still have to vote to fight for our human rights? The politicization of abortion is the problem. It should be standard healthcare. I’m a white woman and I have voted Democrat in every election of my life. What has it gotten me? What else can I do?

PP, I hear your frustration. I would flip your framing, you aren’t fighting for your rights, SCOTUS/GOP are TAKING AWAY our rights. Voting for Dems has stopped even more horrible bills passing. Think back on the Trump years. Do we really want to go back to that? And todays GOP are even more unhinged.

I know this is an unsatisfactory response. Believe me, I’m disappointed in Dem Congressional leadership. But then I see leaders like Malloy McMarrow and Katie Porter and I have hope.

The history of this country has been about everyone but property-owning white men needing to fight for their rights...though the rights of non-property owning white men were often granted as a way to further oppress Black men (as opposed to hard-won fights). Most of those fights have been extremely bloody. Read about the suffragettes.

Why should we have to fight for these things? Because that's how power works.

Well the whole point of the American democracy experiment is that literal fighting isn’t required.

The Civil War says hello.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to know what sort of surveillance and control will be implemented for this to happen

If ever there were two men who looked like they only wanted the babies to live long enough so they could eat them.

“If Roe is overturned, there’s already a criminal ban, there’s already an aiding and abetting ban, there’s already a ban on mailing medication abortion,” Sepper said. “In terms of law’s ability to change behavior, they’ve almost filled all the gaps — with the exception of criminalizing the pregnant person involved in an abortion.”

Folks, this will not get any better until the mainstream media starts asking Republicans, repeatedly, if *a woman who gets an abortion* should be charged with murder. The fact they consistently let Republicans slide on this crucial point is completely mystifying to me. When Republicans have to repeatedly go on record saying they are comfortable with the death penalty for women who get abortions—including rape victims—then and only then will things change.

I know there are journalists in the forum. Why do you continue to carry water for GOP? Do your frigging job!

Because they’re stupid, bad at their jobs and enjoy power. That’s literally the only conclusion. The “mainstream” media has gotten dumber and more right wing, like there’s some sort of brain disease spreading amongst them that makes them incredibly lazy and unwilling to crawl up a rapepublican’s butt - but more than willing to talk about absolute nonsense for weeks if it’s bad for Democrats.

This will send us back to the 1800s. I don’t understand why more people aren’t alarmed.

This. We’ve been talking about this for days and still basic errors and lack of understanding regarding the significance of the potential holding in the major papers. And they’re obsessing over the protests (which I don’t support) instead of the fear that women are feeling.

Correct for my tone here because I’m terrible at conveying messages in the right tone and I do not mean this to be hostile in the least, but look at your bolded sentence and tell me that the finger wagging patriarchy doesn’t still live a little inside your head (as it does in almost everyone’s to some degree). These “justices” - and they’re not that anymore, are they? They’re Talibangelicals on a Christianist Sharia tribunal - are literally about to make women slaves. They have affirmed the right to harass women at clinics, they have affirmed the right for forced birthers to harass clinic employees at their homes and they know full well how much violence forced birthers have commit.

The people (women) bringing the noise to these wastrels’ homes are fighting the good fight and I applaud them.

Sorry, I don’t support picketing federal judges homes. Demonstrate somewhere else. This is how civil societies die. And it’s a distraction from the story.

Peaceful demonstrations?

If they are going to dive into the world of politics, they get demonstrations. They should have stuck to law.

It’s still illegal. There is still rule of law. One terrible opinion doesn’t change that. I’m not big on behavior that puts federal judges homes at risk.

It’s literally not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to know what sort of surveillance and control will be implemented for this to happen

If ever there were two men who looked like they only wanted the babies to live long enough so they could eat them.

“If Roe is overturned, there’s already a criminal ban, there’s already an aiding and abetting ban, there’s already a ban on mailing medication abortion,” Sepper said. “In terms of law’s ability to change behavior, they’ve almost filled all the gaps — with the exception of criminalizing the pregnant person involved in an abortion.”

Folks, this will not get any better until the mainstream media starts asking Republicans, repeatedly, if *a woman who gets an abortion* should be charged with murder. The fact they consistently let Republicans slide on this crucial point is completely mystifying to me. When Republicans have to repeatedly go on record saying they are comfortable with the death penalty for women who get abortions—including rape victims—then and only then will things change.

I know there are journalists in the forum. Why do you continue to carry water for GOP? Do your frigging job!

Because they’re stupid, bad at their jobs and enjoy power. That’s literally the only conclusion. The “mainstream” media has gotten dumber and more right wing, like there’s some sort of brain disease spreading amongst them that makes them incredibly lazy and unwilling to crawl up a rapepublican’s butt - but more than willing to talk about absolute nonsense for weeks if it’s bad for Democrats.

This will send us back to the 1800s. I don’t understand why more people aren’t alarmed.

This. We’ve been talking about this for days and still basic errors and lack of understanding regarding the significance of the potential holding in the major papers. And they’re obsessing over the protests (which I don’t support) instead of the fear that women are feeling.

Correct for my tone here because I’m terrible at conveying messages in the right tone and I do not mean this to be hostile in the least, but look at your bolded sentence and tell me that the finger wagging patriarchy doesn’t still live a little inside your head (as it does in almost everyone’s to some degree). These “justices” - and they’re not that anymore, are they? They’re Talibangelicals on a Christianist Sharia tribunal - are literally about to make women slaves. They have affirmed the right to harass women at clinics, they have affirmed the right for forced birthers to harass clinic employees at their homes and they know full well how much violence forced birthers have commit.

The people (women) bringing the noise to these wastrels’ homes are fighting the good fight and I applaud them.

Sorry, I don’t support picketing federal judges homes. Demonstrate somewhere else. This is how civil societies die. And it’s a distraction from the story.

Peaceful demonstrations?

If they are going to dive into the world of politics, they get demonstrations. They should have stuck to law.

It’s still illegal. There is still rule of law. One terrible opinion doesn’t change that. I’m not big on behavior that puts federal judges homes at risk.

It’s literally not.

No it is. You can’t picket the home of a federal judge. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1507

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a depressing thread. That a group of men (and one loony woman) have the right to take all American women's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion to end an unwanted pregnancy is horrifying. But here we are in 2022, and men are still calling the shots, controlling women.

Because women time and time again vote against their OWN interest. The interest of women.
Yeah, you have some who LOVE this ruling, but the majority don't. But I bet my bottom dollar that come november they will vote an R just like always and say it is becasue of taxes (though Rs want to raise middle class tax) or small business (yet Rs haven't done crap for small business) or education (Rs want to get rid of books that make moms have difficult convos with their kids) or some other BS story the Rs will push on them and they will vote to protect themselves from the 'big bad boogie man' that doesn't exist all the while letting the wolf into their homes and bedrooms without batting an eye.

This reminds me of a cartoon i love. It is an axe asking the forest to vote for him to be ruler because he is just like them, made of WOOD! He would never do anything to hurt them. He is just like them!!

Why should we still have to vote to fight for our human rights? The politicization of abortion is the problem. It should be standard healthcare. I’m a white woman and I have voted Democrat in every election of my life. What has it gotten me? What else can I do?

PP, I hear your frustration. I would flip your framing, you aren’t fighting for your rights, SCOTUS/GOP are TAKING AWAY our rights. Voting for Dems has stopped even more horrible bills passing. Think back on the Trump years. Do we really want to go back to that? And todays GOP are even more unhinged.

I know this is an unsatisfactory response. Believe me, I’m disappointed in Dem Congressional leadership. But then I see leaders like Malloy McMarrow and Katie Porter and I have hope.

The history of this country has been about everyone but property-owning white men needing to fight for their rights...though the rights of non-property owning white men were often granted as a way to further oppress Black men (as opposed to hard-won fights). Most of those fights have been extremely bloody. Read about the suffragettes.

Why should we have to fight for these things? Because that's how power works.

Well the whole point of the American democracy experiment is that literal fighting isn’t required.

The Civil War says hello.

Obviously. But are we saying that the experiment is over or is at another such failure point? I don’t think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to know what sort of surveillance and control will be implemented for this to happen

If ever there were two men who looked like they only wanted the babies to live long enough so they could eat them.

“If Roe is overturned, there’s already a criminal ban, there’s already an aiding and abetting ban, there’s already a ban on mailing medication abortion,” Sepper said. “In terms of law’s ability to change behavior, they’ve almost filled all the gaps — with the exception of criminalizing the pregnant person involved in an abortion.”

Folks, this will not get any better until the mainstream media starts asking Republicans, repeatedly, if *a woman who gets an abortion* should be charged with murder. The fact they consistently let Republicans slide on this crucial point is completely mystifying to me. When Republicans have to repeatedly go on record saying they are comfortable with the death penalty for women who get abortions—including rape victims—then and only then will things change.

I know there are journalists in the forum. Why do you continue to carry water for GOP? Do your frigging job!

Because they’re stupid, bad at their jobs and enjoy power. That’s literally the only conclusion. The “mainstream” media has gotten dumber and more right wing, like there’s some sort of brain disease spreading amongst them that makes them incredibly lazy and unwilling to crawl up a rapepublican’s butt - but more than willing to talk about absolute nonsense for weeks if it’s bad for Democrats.

This will send us back to the 1800s. I don’t understand why more people aren’t alarmed.

This. We’ve been talking about this for days and still basic errors and lack of understanding regarding the significance of the potential holding in the major papers. And they’re obsessing over the protests (which I don’t support) instead of the fear that women are feeling.

Correct for my tone here because I’m terrible at conveying messages in the right tone and I do not mean this to be hostile in the least, but look at your bolded sentence and tell me that the finger wagging patriarchy doesn’t still live a little inside your head (as it does in almost everyone’s to some degree). These “justices” - and they’re not that anymore, are they? They’re Talibangelicals on a Christianist Sharia tribunal - are literally about to make women slaves. They have affirmed the right to harass women at clinics, they have affirmed the right for forced birthers to harass clinic employees at their homes and they know full well how much violence forced birthers have commit.

The people (women) bringing the noise to these wastrels’ homes are fighting the good fight and I applaud them.

Sorry, I don’t support picketing federal judges homes. Demonstrate somewhere else. This is how civil societies die. And it’s a distraction from the story.

Our civil society is already dead. It was dying but Trump was the kill shot.

Some of us are trying to save it. Again you are the problem—this stupid debate is a distraction from the real and urgent fear that women are feeling.

It’s not a debate. It’s free speech. The Supreme Court has said it’s acceptable for others, and what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. And I was trying to be polite in pointing the fact that you are in some ways beholden to patriarchal ideas about appropriate behavior - they’re not being loud, annoying, harassing their children, trespassing, threatening violence, the neighbors welcome it - and you’re calling me “the problem.”

“The problem” is that the patriarchy is so deep in peoples’ bones and so unexamined that men and women vote for the complete decimation of women’s rights without a second thought to what it actually means. They literally spare no thoughts about liberty for women.

For the PP who is against the protests - remind me why it's ok to protest outside of abortion clinics, but not justices' houses? I'm having a hard time seeing how they support the one but not the other. Lordy it had better not be some argument rooted in privacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a depressing thread. That a group of men (and one loony woman) have the right to take all American women's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion to end an unwanted pregnancy is horrifying. But here we are in 2022, and men are still calling the shots, controlling women.

Because women time and time again vote against their OWN interest. The interest of women.
Yeah, you have some who LOVE this ruling, but the majority don't. But I bet my bottom dollar that come november they will vote an R just like always and say it is becasue of taxes (though Rs want to raise middle class tax) or small business (yet Rs haven't done crap for small business) or education (Rs want to get rid of books that make moms have difficult convos with their kids) or some other BS story the Rs will push on them and they will vote to protect themselves from the 'big bad boogie man' that doesn't exist all the while letting the wolf into their homes and bedrooms without batting an eye.

This reminds me of a cartoon i love. It is an axe asking the forest to vote for him to be ruler because he is just like them, made of WOOD! He would never do anything to hurt them. He is just like them!!

Why should we still have to vote to fight for our human rights? The politicization of abortion is the problem. It should be standard healthcare. I’m a white woman and I have voted Democrat in every election of my life. What has it gotten me? What else can I do?

PP, I hear your frustration. I would flip your framing, you aren’t fighting for your rights, SCOTUS/GOP are TAKING AWAY our rights. Voting for Dems has stopped even more horrible bills passing. Think back on the Trump years. Do we really want to go back to that? And todays GOP are even more unhinged.

I know this is an unsatisfactory response. Believe me, I’m disappointed in Dem Congressional leadership. But then I see leaders like Malloy McMarrow and Katie Porter and I have hope.

The history of this country has been about everyone but property-owning white men needing to fight for their rights...though the rights of non-property owning white men were often granted as a way to further oppress Black men (as opposed to hard-won fights). Most of those fights have been extremely bloody. Read about the suffragettes.

Why should we have to fight for these things? Because that's how power works.

Well the whole point of the American democracy experiment is that literal fighting isn’t required.

The Civil War says hello.

Obviously. But are we saying that the experiment is over or is at another such failure point? I don’t think so.

Suffragettes experienced violence. Civil rights leaders experienced violence. Undocumented immigrants experience violence. Muslim Americans experience violence. Do you seriously htink the Civil War was the last time people had to "literally" fight to be treated as human?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to know what sort of surveillance and control will be implemented for this to happen

If ever there were two men who looked like they only wanted the babies to live long enough so they could eat them.

“If Roe is overturned, there’s already a criminal ban, there’s already an aiding and abetting ban, there’s already a ban on mailing medication abortion,” Sepper said. “In terms of law’s ability to change behavior, they’ve almost filled all the gaps — with the exception of criminalizing the pregnant person involved in an abortion.”

Folks, this will not get any better until the mainstream media starts asking Republicans, repeatedly, if *a woman who gets an abortion* should be charged with murder. The fact they consistently let Republicans slide on this crucial point is completely mystifying to me. When Republicans have to repeatedly go on record saying they are comfortable with the death penalty for women who get abortions—including rape victims—then and only then will things change.

I know there are journalists in the forum. Why do you continue to carry water for GOP? Do your frigging job!

Because they’re stupid, bad at their jobs and enjoy power. That’s literally the only conclusion. The “mainstream” media has gotten dumber and more right wing, like there’s some sort of brain disease spreading amongst them that makes them incredibly lazy and unwilling to crawl up a rapepublican’s butt - but more than willing to talk about absolute nonsense for weeks if it’s bad for Democrats.

This will send us back to the 1800s. I don’t understand why more people aren’t alarmed.

This. We’ve been talking about this for days and still basic errors and lack of understanding regarding the significance of the potential holding in the major papers. And they’re obsessing over the protests (which I don’t support) instead of the fear that women are feeling.

Correct for my tone here because I’m terrible at conveying messages in the right tone and I do not mean this to be hostile in the least, but look at your bolded sentence and tell me that the finger wagging patriarchy doesn’t still live a little inside your head (as it does in almost everyone’s to some degree). These “justices” - and they’re not that anymore, are they? They’re Talibangelicals on a Christianist Sharia tribunal - are literally about to make women slaves. They have affirmed the right to harass women at clinics, they have affirmed the right for forced birthers to harass clinic employees at their homes and they know full well how much violence forced birthers have commit.

The people (women) bringing the noise to these wastrels’ homes are fighting the good fight and I applaud them.

Sorry, I don’t support picketing federal judges homes. Demonstrate somewhere else. This is how civil societies die. And it’s a distraction from the story.

Our civil society is already dead. It was dying but Trump was the kill shot.

Some of us are trying to save it. Again you are the problem—this stupid debate is a distraction from the real and urgent fear that women are feeling.

It’s not a debate. It’s free speech. The Supreme Court has said it’s acceptable for others, and what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. And I was trying to be polite in pointing the fact that you are in some ways beholden to patriarchal ideas about appropriate behavior - they’re not being loud, annoying, harassing their children, trespassing, threatening violence, the neighbors welcome it - and you’re calling me “the problem.”

“The problem” is that the patriarchy is so deep in peoples’ bones and so unexamined that men and women vote for the complete decimation of women’s rights without a second thought to what it actually means. They literally spare no thoughts about liberty for women.

For the PP who is against the protests - remind me why it's ok to protest outside of abortion clinics, but not justices' houses? I'm having a hard time seeing how they support the one but not the other. Lordy it had better not be some argument rooted in privacy.

Well for one? It’s illegal. Secondly it’s about preventing judges from being killed in their homes because they make unpopular decisions. It happens unfortunately too often. I think protesting outside of healthcare clinics is disgusting and should be illegal too… it interferes with people’s ability to get healthcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a depressing thread. That a group of men (and one loony woman) have the right to take all American women's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion to end an unwanted pregnancy is horrifying. But here we are in 2022, and men are still calling the shots, controlling women.

Because women time and time again vote against their OWN interest. The interest of women.
Yeah, you have some who LOVE this ruling, but the majority don't. But I bet my bottom dollar that come november they will vote an R just like always and say it is becasue of taxes (though Rs want to raise middle class tax) or small business (yet Rs haven't done crap for small business) or education (Rs want to get rid of books that make moms have difficult convos with their kids) or some other BS story the Rs will push on them and they will vote to protect themselves from the 'big bad boogie man' that doesn't exist all the while letting the wolf into their homes and bedrooms without batting an eye.

This reminds me of a cartoon i love. It is an axe asking the forest to vote for him to be ruler because he is just like them, made of WOOD! He would never do anything to hurt them. He is just like them!!

Why should we still have to vote to fight for our human rights? The politicization of abortion is the problem. It should be standard healthcare. I’m a white woman and I have voted Democrat in every election of my life. What has it gotten me? What else can I do?

PP, I hear your frustration. I would flip your framing, you aren’t fighting for your rights, SCOTUS/GOP are TAKING AWAY our rights. Voting for Dems has stopped even more horrible bills passing. Think back on the Trump years. Do we really want to go back to that? And todays GOP are even more unhinged.

I know this is an unsatisfactory response. Believe me, I’m disappointed in Dem Congressional leadership. But then I see leaders like Malloy McMarrow and Katie Porter and I have hope.

The history of this country has been about everyone but property-owning white men needing to fight for their rights...though the rights of non-property owning white men were often granted as a way to further oppress Black men (as opposed to hard-won fights). Most of those fights have been extremely bloody. Read about the suffragettes.

Why should we have to fight for these things? Because that's how power works.

Well the whole point of the American democracy experiment is that literal fighting isn’t required.

The Civil War says hello.

Obviously. But are we saying that the experiment is over or is at another such failure point? I don’t think so.

Suffragettes experienced violence. Civil rights leaders experienced violence. Undocumented immigrants experience violence. Muslim Americans experience violence. Do you seriously htink the Civil War was the last time people had to "literally" fight to be treated as human?

Are you suggesting this needs to get violent?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'd like to know what sort of surveillance and control will be implemented for this to happen

If ever there were two men who looked like they only wanted the babies to live long enough so they could eat them.

“If Roe is overturned, there’s already a criminal ban, there’s already an aiding and abetting ban, there’s already a ban on mailing medication abortion,” Sepper said. “In terms of law’s ability to change behavior, they’ve almost filled all the gaps — with the exception of criminalizing the pregnant person involved in an abortion.”

Folks, this will not get any better until the mainstream media starts asking Republicans, repeatedly, if *a woman who gets an abortion* should be charged with murder. The fact they consistently let Republicans slide on this crucial point is completely mystifying to me. When Republicans have to repeatedly go on record saying they are comfortable with the death penalty for women who get abortions—including rape victims—then and only then will things change.

I know there are journalists in the forum. Why do you continue to carry water for GOP? Do your frigging job!

Because they’re stupid, bad at their jobs and enjoy power. That’s literally the only conclusion. The “mainstream” media has gotten dumber and more right wing, like there’s some sort of brain disease spreading amongst them that makes them incredibly lazy and unwilling to crawl up a rapepublican’s butt - but more than willing to talk about absolute nonsense for weeks if it’s bad for Democrats.

This will send us back to the 1800s. I don’t understand why more people aren’t alarmed.

This. We’ve been talking about this for days and still basic errors and lack of understanding regarding the significance of the potential holding in the major papers. And they’re obsessing over the protests (which I don’t support) instead of the fear that women are feeling.

Correct for my tone here because I’m terrible at conveying messages in the right tone and I do not mean this to be hostile in the least, but look at your bolded sentence and tell me that the finger wagging patriarchy doesn’t still live a little inside your head (as it does in almost everyone’s to some degree). These “justices” - and they’re not that anymore, are they? They’re Talibangelicals on a Christianist Sharia tribunal - are literally about to make women slaves. They have affirmed the right to harass women at clinics, they have affirmed the right for forced birthers to harass clinic employees at their homes and they know full well how much violence forced birthers have commit.

The people (women) bringing the noise to these wastrels’ homes are fighting the good fight and I applaud them.

Sorry, I don’t support picketing federal judges homes. Demonstrate somewhere else. This is how civil societies die. And it’s a distraction from the story.

Our civil society is already dead. It was dying but Trump was the kill shot.

Some of us are trying to save it. Again you are the problem—this stupid debate is a distraction from the real and urgent fear that women are feeling.

It’s not a debate. It’s free speech. The Supreme Court has said it’s acceptable for others, and what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. And I was trying to be polite in pointing the fact that you are in some ways beholden to patriarchal ideas about appropriate behavior - they’re not being loud, annoying, harassing their children, trespassing, threatening violence, the neighbors welcome it - and you’re calling me “the problem.”

“The problem” is that the patriarchy is so deep in peoples’ bones and so unexamined that men and women vote for the complete decimation of women’s rights without a second thought to what it actually means. They literally spare no thoughts about liberty for women.

For the PP who is against the protests - remind me why it's ok to protest outside of abortion clinics, but not justices' houses? I'm having a hard time seeing how they support the one but not the other. Lordy it had better not be some argument rooted in privacy.

Not PP. But in functioning democracies governed by the rule of law, it's common to provide special protection to judges and law enforcement officers so that they can interpret and enforce the law fairly and without fear of reprisal. It's a pretty important cornerstone of democracy. It's also why it's important to pay judges and law enforcement well, so they aren't subject to bribes.

It's difficult however, to know what to think in the US. SCOTUS's behavior over the past couple of years with the shadow docket etc has indicated that they've given up all pretense of being a legitimate, non-partisan body. Same with Gorsuch accepting a nomination for a seat that was held open in violation of longstanding norms, Kavanaugh's behavior during his hearing, and Barrett accepting a confirmation process that was explicitly political. All three of these people had some agency in deciding to go along with over-partisan politics in getting confirmed to SCOTUS. They've willingly participated in activities that de-legitimize SCOTUS. So they are complicit in the de-legitimizing of SCOTUS's authority and decision-making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to know what sort of surveillance and control will be implemented for this to happen

If ever there were two men who looked like they only wanted the babies to live long enough so they could eat them.

“If Roe is overturned, there’s already a criminal ban, there’s already an aiding and abetting ban, there’s already a ban on mailing medication abortion,” Sepper said. “In terms of law’s ability to change behavior, they’ve almost filled all the gaps — with the exception of criminalizing the pregnant person involved in an abortion.”

Folks, this will not get any better until the mainstream media starts asking Republicans, repeatedly, if *a woman who gets an abortion* should be charged with murder. The fact they consistently let Republicans slide on this crucial point is completely mystifying to me. When Republicans have to repeatedly go on record saying they are comfortable with the death penalty for women who get abortions—including rape victims—then and only then will things change.

I know there are journalists in the forum. Why do you continue to carry water for GOP? Do your frigging job!

Because they’re stupid, bad at their jobs and enjoy power. That’s literally the only conclusion. The “mainstream” media has gotten dumber and more right wing, like there’s some sort of brain disease spreading amongst them that makes them incredibly lazy and unwilling to crawl up a rapepublican’s butt - but more than willing to talk about absolute nonsense for weeks if it’s bad for Democrats.

This will send us back to the 1800s. I don’t understand why more people aren’t alarmed.

This. We’ve been talking about this for days and still basic errors and lack of understanding regarding the significance of the potential holding in the major papers. And they’re obsessing over the protests (which I don’t support) instead of the fear that women are feeling.

Correct for my tone here because I’m terrible at conveying messages in the right tone and I do not mean this to be hostile in the least, but look at your bolded sentence and tell me that the finger wagging patriarchy doesn’t still live a little inside your head (as it does in almost everyone’s to some degree). These “justices” - and they’re not that anymore, are they? They’re Talibangelicals on a Christianist Sharia tribunal - are literally about to make women slaves. They have affirmed the right to harass women at clinics, they have affirmed the right for forced birthers to harass clinic employees at their homes and they know full well how much violence forced birthers have commit.

The people (women) bringing the noise to these wastrels’ homes are fighting the good fight and I applaud them.

Sorry, I don’t support picketing federal judges homes. Demonstrate somewhere else. This is how civil societies die. And it’s a distraction from the story.

Peaceful demonstrations?

If they are going to dive into the world of politics, they get demonstrations. They should have stuck to law.

It’s still illegal. There is still rule of law. One terrible opinion doesn’t change that. I’m not big on behavior that puts federal judges homes at risk.

It’s literally not.

No it is. You can’t picket the home of a federal judge. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1507

That law also says you can't do it "in or near a building housing a court of the United States" yet people are protesting at SCOTUS every day. You seem to be missing the key element in that law: it has to be "with the intent of influencing any judge, juror, witness, or court officer, in the discharge of his duty." That's not what a protester is doing, so it is not illegal. But if you think so, then every protester at SCOTUS should also be charged.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is such a depressing thread. That a group of men (and one loony woman) have the right to take all American women's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion to end an unwanted pregnancy is horrifying. But here we are in 2022, and men are still calling the shots, controlling women.

Because women time and time again vote against their OWN interest. The interest of women.
Yeah, you have some who LOVE this ruling, but the majority don't. But I bet my bottom dollar that come november they will vote an R just like always and say it is becasue of taxes (though Rs want to raise middle class tax) or small business (yet Rs haven't done crap for small business) or education (Rs want to get rid of books that make moms have difficult convos with their kids) or some other BS story the Rs will push on them and they will vote to protect themselves from the 'big bad boogie man' that doesn't exist all the while letting the wolf into their homes and bedrooms without batting an eye.

This reminds me of a cartoon i love. It is an axe asking the forest to vote for him to be ruler because he is just like them, made of WOOD! He would never do anything to hurt them. He is just like them!!

Why should we still have to vote to fight for our human rights? The politicization of abortion is the problem. It should be standard healthcare. I’m a white woman and I have voted Democrat in every election of my life. What has it gotten me? What else can I do?

PP, I hear your frustration. I would flip your framing, you aren’t fighting for your rights, SCOTUS/GOP are TAKING AWAY our rights. Voting for Dems has stopped even more horrible bills passing. Think back on the Trump years. Do we really want to go back to that? And todays GOP are even more unhinged.

I know this is an unsatisfactory response. Believe me, I’m disappointed in Dem Congressional leadership. But then I see leaders like Malloy McMarrow and Katie Porter and I have hope.

The history of this country has been about everyone but property-owning white men needing to fight for their rights...though the rights of non-property owning white men were often granted as a way to further oppress Black men (as opposed to hard-won fights). Most of those fights have been extremely bloody. Read about the suffragettes.

Why should we have to fight for these things? Because that's how power works.

Well the whole point of the American democracy experiment is that literal fighting isn’t required.

The Civil War says hello.

Obviously. But are we saying that the experiment is over or is at another such failure point? I don’t think so.

Suffragettes experienced violence. Civil rights leaders experienced violence. Undocumented immigrants experience violence. Muslim Americans experience violence. Do you seriously htink the Civil War was the last time people had to "literally" fight to be treated as human?

Are you suggesting this needs to get violent?

I'm responding to a PP who seems to think that no one should literally have to fight for their rights in the US and that the last time anyone did was the Civil War. In reality, the history of the US since our founding has been everyone but white men fighting, often literally, for recognition of their rights by the US government.

People are surprised that they should even have to vote to protect their rights, let alone do more than just vote. It takes an incredibly selective and naive understanding of American history to think that this is surprising.