Admissions to change at Thomas Jefferson High, and others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So people who think that TJ needs to have a different method of admitting students so that the student body is more diverse = Anti TJ? Gotcha.

Or, people appreciate TJ and what it offers and would like to see it include more people who are Black, Hispanic, and more Girls.

I like the idea of the lottery from Middle Schools. Everyone who is qualified, passes the exams and normal review process, is entered into the lottery. A certain number of spots are set aside for each Middle School. Names of qualified candidates are drawn from each Middle School pool. If a Middle School does not have enough qualified students who applied, those slots are placed into a general pool. Anyone who is not selected in their Middle School lottery is entered into the general pool lottery.

This way the kids are all qualified and we remove some of the pressure to pad a resume, which benefits kids from MS with more extra curricular activities or parents who can afford participation in different clubs. Qualification is based on the exams, essays, and letters of recommendation. Maybe more kids at Title 1 schools who are qualified will be more willing to apply because they know that the distribution of seats more evenly distributed.

It might also benefit everyone by decreasing the race to pad the resume for the Middle School kids at the better off Middle Schools. If you have the grades and the tests scores, you have a shot. You don't have to do 5 clubs. That reduced pressure would probably benefit the 11 and 12 year olds in Middle School.

TJ ends up with a more diverse student body and there is still a qualification process that insures that kids are STEM focused/interested and can handle the more rigorous course load.

I don't agree with a lottery - just provide the recipe for success in low income schools! My child took the TJ test a couple of years ago after they changed the format and scored in the 90s on both reading and science sections. Had As in advanced math classes and just scored over 700 on first SAT practice math section. But didn't score well on TJ math section. Many problems were unfamiliar. I think if s/he had been practicing Math Counts/AMC type problems s/he would have fared better. Why not take high performers at all middle schools and offer classes to practice these problems? It should be an in school class as many low income students may need to be home to receive younger siblings. It should, however, be available to all. Instead of doing this, my child was made available as a tutor to failing students during their study period. This class would have been a better use of time.

I shouldn't have to live in a certain neighborhood or run in certain social circles to know the recipe.

[Anonymous]

There is no need to reinvent the wheel here. There are plenty of ways to level the playing field while continuing to nurture rare talent - in fact, there are ways to ensure that TJ is serving the most talented rather than the best prepared.

To improve the pipeline:

* Get rid of external evaluations for AAP admissions. Parents should not be able to buy their way into the program on appeals with a privately-funded intelligence test.

* Invest in top talent at every middle school, including by funding Math Counts or whatever where needed.

To find talent outside a handful of feeder schools:

* Fill a certain number of seats with the "top" candidates from each sending middle school. Not the whole class, but some sub-section of the class will be the top 5 kids or whatever from each middle school in the TJ admissions zone.

To make the admissions process more fair

* Get rid of any at-home components of the application. No at-home essay, no parent statement, nothing.

* Lower the weight of extracurriculars, as they mainly demonstrate parent engagement, not student capacity or potential

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is simple: FCPS has no obligation to operate a magnet and should not be allowed to do so unless it has a student body representative of the county’s students.

That was true when TJ was majority white, and it is even more true today, when the school is less representative of the county’s population than at any time in its history.

School Board members who allow this to continue should be replaced, just as Ilryong Moon was last year.

So you want to get rid of the best high school in the country?

other than drain resources from elsewhere, what does having the best school in the country accomplish?

What does MIT accomplish?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So people who think that TJ needs to have a different method of admitting students so that the student body is more diverse = Anti TJ? Gotcha.

Or, people appreciate TJ and what it offers and would like to see it include more people who are Black, Hispanic, and more Girls.

I like the idea of the lottery from Middle Schools. Everyone who is qualified, passes the exams and normal review process, is entered into the lottery. A certain number of spots are set aside for each Middle School. Names of qualified candidates are drawn from each Middle School pool. If a Middle School does not have enough qualified students who applied, those slots are placed into a general pool. Anyone who is not selected in their Middle School lottery is entered into the general pool lottery.

This way the kids are all qualified and we remove some of the pressure to pad a resume, which benefits kids from MS with more extra curricular activities or parents who can afford participation in different clubs. Qualification is based on the exams, essays, and letters of recommendation. Maybe more kids at Title 1 schools who are qualified will be more willing to apply because they know that the distribution of seats more evenly distributed.

It might also benefit everyone by decreasing the race to pad the resume for the Middle School kids at the better off Middle Schools. If you have the grades and the tests scores, you have a shot. You don't have to do 5 clubs. That reduced pressure would probably benefit the 11 and 12 year olds in Middle School.

TJ ends up with a more diverse student body and there is still a qualification process that insures that kids are STEM focused/interested and can handle the more rigorous course load.

Let's institute the same "Lottery System" for UVA and William and Mary.

[Anonymous]

This is just another variation of the “I’m taking all my marbles and leaving” argument advanced by those trying to maintain the status quo at TJ that has become an albatross for the county. There’s no proof that the county would lose any meaningful amount of revenue; one could just as easily make the opposite argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ is a crutch for FCPS to pretend it’s a great system. Pool the top test-takers in MoCo, Westchester, Nassau or Santa Clara County in a single HS and it would leave TJ in the dust.

Actually, TJ pools from Prince William, Loudoun, Arlington and Fairfax counties and Falls Church. Maybe Fauquier county as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is simple: FCPS has no obligation to operate a magnet and should not be allowed to do so unless it has a student body representative of the county’s students.

That was true when TJ was majority white, and it is even more true today, when the school is less representative of the county’s population than at any time in its history.

School Board members who allow this to continue should be replaced, just as Ilryong Moon was last year.

So you want to get rid of the best high school in the country?

other than drain resources from elsewhere, what does having the best school in the country accomplish?

We moved here because of it. Quite a few people from my community chose to live here as a result. This also attracts a highly educated/wealthier demographic which = higher property values and more tax revenue. This workforce is more desirable for employers and allows for business development.

There are a tremendous number of STEM jobs in the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is simple: FCPS has no obligation to operate a magnet and should not be allowed to do so unless it has a student body representative of the county’s students.

That was true when TJ was majority white, and it is even more true today, when the school is less representative of the county’s population than at any time in its history.

School Board members who allow this to continue should be replaced, just as Ilryong Moon was last year.

So you want to get rid of the best high school in the country?

other than drain resources from elsewhere, what does having the best school in the country accomplish?

We moved here because of it. Quite a few people from my community chose to live here as a result. This also attracts a highly educated/wealthier demographic which = higher property values and more tax revenue. This workforce is more desirable for employers and allows for business development.

There are a tremendous number of STEM jobs in the area.

I know plenty people (professionals) who moved here because of good schools and TJ as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So people who think that TJ needs to have a different method of admitting students so that the student body is more diverse = Anti TJ? Gotcha.

Or, people appreciate TJ and what it offers and would like to see it include more people who are Black, Hispanic, and more Girls.

I like the idea of the lottery from Middle Schools. Everyone who is qualified, passes the exams and normal review process, is entered into the lottery. A certain number of spots are set aside for each Middle School. Names of qualified candidates are drawn from each Middle School pool. If a Middle School does not have enough qualified students who applied, those slots are placed into a general pool. Anyone who is not selected in their Middle School lottery is entered into the general pool lottery.

This way the kids are all qualified and we remove some of the pressure to pad a resume, which benefits kids from MS with more extra curricular activities or parents who can afford participation in different clubs. Qualification is based on the exams, essays, and letters of recommendation. Maybe more kids at Title 1 schools who are qualified will be more willing to apply because they know that the distribution of seats more evenly distributed.

It might also benefit everyone by decreasing the race to pad the resume for the Middle School kids at the better off Middle Schools. If you have the grades and the tests scores, you have a shot. You don't have to do 5 clubs. That reduced pressure would probably benefit the 11 and 12 year olds in Middle School.

TJ ends up with a more diverse student body and there is still a qualification process that insures that kids are STEM focused/interested and can handle the more rigorous course load.

Let's institute the same "Lottery System" for UVA and William and Mary.

There is a world of difference between a 17-19 year old and an 11-12 year old. Kids in Middle School are in a very different place in terms of their needs then a High School senior and there is nothing wrong with a process that reflects that. And Colleges are a very different business then a Public High School.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One thing to keep in mind is all the tax revenue that we have as a country due to the people that move here for the top notch opportunity called TJ. If you remove the allure if TJ, we may lose a lot of eager residents, thus losing tax money. Is the opportunity of TJ bringing in more tax than the lack of it would lose? So is the appeal of RJ paying for its state of the art facility?

how much is that? Can you quantify it?

I don't know, but before you cry that TJ is taking up too much money that can be used to ease overcrowding, etc, think of how much tax revenue it brings in, and how much it spends. My guess is that it brings in more than it takes, but I could be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So people who think that TJ needs to have a different method of admitting students so that the student body is more diverse = Anti TJ? Gotcha.

Or, people appreciate TJ and what it offers and would like to see it include more people who are Black, Hispanic, and more Girls.

I like the idea of the lottery from Middle Schools. Everyone who is qualified, passes the exams and normal review process, is entered into the lottery. A certain number of spots are set aside for each Middle School. Names of qualified candidates are drawn from each Middle School pool. If a Middle School does not have enough qualified students who applied, those slots are placed into a general pool. Anyone who is not selected in their Middle School lottery is entered into the general pool lottery.

This way the kids are all qualified and we remove some of the pressure to pad a resume, which benefits kids from MS with more extra curricular activities or parents who can afford participation in different clubs. Qualification is based on the exams, essays, and letters of recommendation. Maybe more kids at Title 1 schools who are qualified will be more willing to apply because they know that the distribution of seats more evenly distributed.

It might also benefit everyone by decreasing the race to pad the resume for the Middle School kids at the better off Middle Schools. If you have the grades and the tests scores, you have a shot. You don't have to do 5 clubs. That reduced pressure would probably benefit the 11 and 12 year olds in Middle School.

TJ ends up with a more diverse student body and there is still a qualification process that insures that kids are STEM focused/interested and can handle the more rigorous course load.

Let's institute the same "Lottery System" for UVA and William and Mary.

There is a world of difference between a 17-19 year old and an 11-12 year old. Kids in Middle School are in a very different place in terms of their needs then a High School senior and there is nothing wrong with a process that reflects that. And Colleges are a very different business then a Public High School.

The lottery system already exists

there is a baseline and if you are special (legacy, URM, certain geographic region, special talent, i'm sure I'm missing some you get the picture) you can get in as long as you meet the baseline above folks with "higher scores"

everyone knows this is how it works. Colleges never just take the people with the best scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is simple: FCPS has no obligation to operate a magnet and should not be allowed to do so unless it has a student body representative of the county’s students.

That was true when TJ was majority white, and it is even more true today, when the school is less representative of the county’s population than at any time in its history.

School Board members who allow this to continue should be replaced, just as Ilryong Moon was last year.

So you want to get rid of the best high school in the country?

other than drain resources from elsewhere, what does having the best school in the country accomplish?

What does MIT accomplish?

MIT is arguably the best higher ed school in the country. If you are outside of the DC area, TJ does not compare to some of the truly best high schools in the country (not the best counties, the best schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is simple: FCPS has no obligation to operate a magnet and should not be allowed to do so unless it has a student body representative of the county’s students.

That was true when TJ was majority white, and it is even more true today, when the school is less representative of the county’s population than at any time in its history.

School Board members who allow this to continue should be replaced, just as Ilryong Moon was last year.

So you want to get rid of the best high school in the country?

other than drain resources from elsewhere, what does having the best school in the country accomplish?

What does MIT accomplish?

MIT is arguably the best higher ed school in the country. If you are outside of the DC area, TJ does not compare to some of the truly best high schools in the country (not the best counties, the best schools).

Also, MIT is private, not on tax payers dime, so thank you for raising that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and again I say so what. If mostly early generation asians think accelerating math prep is the ticket to life success go for it

do we stop or complain about white parents from pushing athletics and then complain about the diversity of high school sports teams? nope

and the biggest point is there this giant pool of black and hispanic kids/famililes clamoring for TJ and upset that they aren't going..... ???? answer nope

so once again we have people in search of a problem when there is none.

and side note TJ already pours tons of time and resources into tutoring/mentoring/math prepping across the county with special focus in traditionally URM areas

It is the woke white folks whose children neither made it into TJ nor have athletic talent, and who have slaveowner guilt, who want to tear down the only thing that is still good about fcps. Where is the NAACP or La Raza in all of this? You need to ask yourself why it is whitey who is leading the charge and not the "affected" parties.

I believe the NAACP is involved.

As it should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is simple: FCPS has no obligation to operate a magnet and should not be allowed to do so unless it has a student body representative of the county’s students.

That was true when TJ was majority white, and it is even more true today, when the school is less representative of the county’s population than at any time in its history.

School Board members who allow this to continue should be replaced, just as Ilryong Moon was last year.

So you want to get rid of the best high school in the country?

other than drain resources from elsewhere, what does having the best school in the country accomplish?

Any high school can be the best in the country when you test out the poors.

+1

Nailed it.