Why don’t schools make you just through some hoops for redshirting?

[Anonymous]

Also for those saying it’s crazy to be annoyed, you likely are not impacted at all, Surely you can understand why it’s irritating to some people but not to you because it has zero impact on your child. People with kid spring birthdays who went on time or summer will notice it the most. I’m not anti red shirt but it is annoying to watch the older kids get some of the prime spots over your own kids for grade based activities. These are often my friends kids so I’m happy for them but it’s a fact my own kid is at a bit of a disadvantage when the competition is so much older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People really forget what it looks like to send a kid to kindergarten who isn't ready. You end up with child who continually disrupts the entire classroom and who ends up 100% miserable because they can't seem to meet expectations and view themselves as bad.

It really isn't good for the other students or teacher. Redshirting for maturity isn't the same as for a sports advantage.

I don’t even care if people do it for sports. Truly I do not care.

How old are your kids?
The only reason I care is because my kid is the youngest and it’s just annoying (not more, not less) but just annoying with grade based things for sports. Our dance studio is sorted by grade and the girl 15m older has gotten the lead every single year. I’m not anti redshirt, it’s just irritating because I see the advantage over my own kid who is as talented. I see that she is disappointed.

Why did you choose that dance studio? I have a dancer too who has attended at least three schools by now (she is a teen) and we have never seen it grouped by age after kindergarten. And auditions have nothing to do with grade - certain levels of class qualify for auditioning which has to do with years of study not age. If you feel your child isn’t benefiting from the studio, speak up with management or go somewhere else. For dance instruction this should be a complete non issue, and I say that as someone whose dancer is a May birthday and often the youngest in her grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People really forget what it looks like to send a kid to kindergarten who isn't ready. You end up with child who continually disrupts the entire classroom and who ends up 100% miserable because they can't seem to meet expectations and view themselves as bad.

It really isn't good for the other students or teacher. Redshirting for maturity isn't the same as for a sports advantage.

I don’t even care if people do it for sports. Truly I do not care.

How old are your kids?
The only reason I care is because my kid is the youngest and it’s just annoying (not more, not less) but just annoying with grade based things for sports. Our dance studio is sorted by grade and the girl 15m older has gotten the lead every single year. I’m not anti redshirt, it’s just irritating because I see the advantage over my own kid who is as talented. I see that she is disappointed.

Why did you choose that dance studio? I have a dancer too who has attended at least three schools by now (she is a teen) and we have never seen it grouped by age after kindergarten. And auditions have nothing to do with grade - certain levels of class qualify for auditioning which has to do with years of study not age. If you feel your child isn’t benefiting from the studio, speak up with management or go somewhere else. For dance instruction this should be a complete non issue, and I say that as someone whose dancer is a May birthday and often the youngest in her grade.

Our studio does it by age, not grade. My DD has a summer birthday but is not redshirted, so she often winds up the oldest in her cohort, especially for summer programming. It is an advantage. When she was younger the advantage was behavior-- she had more ability to focus. Now there is a skills advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also for those saying it’s crazy to be annoyed, you likely are not impacted at all, Surely you can understand why it’s irritating to some people but not to you because it has zero impact on your child. People with kid spring birthdays who went on time or summer will notice it the most. I’m not anti red shirt but it is annoying to watch the older kids get some of the prime spots over your own kids for grade based activities. These are often my friends kids so I’m happy for them but it’s a fact my own kid is at a bit of a disadvantage when the competition is so much older.

Two mid to late elementary kids, one with a spring birthday, and I just haven't seen that. DD with spring birthday (who went on time) does really well academically and does fine socially. There are a ton of spring and summer birthdays in her class. If any of them are a year older than she, which I don't know, then it isn't impacting her at all. DS with late fall birthday (who also went on time), ditto; and in his class, the kid who is most popular and gets the "prime spots" is a year younger than everyone else. He is a fall birthday a year later than the others with fall birthdays. Really nice kid, seems perfectly well adjusted socially, competitive physically, and clearly fine academically. (Of course, it is a public school and it's elementary so we are not talking travel sports or something. My kids wouldn't be doing that anyway regardless of age groupings as they have neither the talent nor the interest.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

She isn't getting an extra year of childhood, she's losing an extra year of being an adult. She will turn 18 regardless. And, that sounds like a bad idea at an outdoor-focused preschool vs. an academic one. We started our September kid at 4/5 and it's been good. When I ask them, they are glad we didn't hold them back. They don't remember preschool at all so the benefit was far smaller than you think. How do you think she'll feel when her true peers go off to college and she's still stuck for a year in high school. It may sound good now but when your kids get high school age, it's very different.

I guess you just have to realize that not all kids are okay to start kindergarten at age 4/5. We sent our first "on time" as a 4-turning-5 yo and she was constantly in trouble and ended up in the principal's office almost daily the entire first month of school. All of K and first she'd sob at bedtime every night about how much she hated school and how she was a bad kid and they didn't want her there. Then she'd sob again the next morning and we'd fight her to get out the door. Then she'd get in trouble again and again. Really, it wasn't "good." We made it through and she's okay now, with only occasional issues, but we're about to start middle school with her as the youngest and smallest kid in the grade and I'm holding my breath all over again.

(She attended a quality preschool program for two years before K, so she should have been prepared for K. She doesn't have special needs. She was just being a 4 yo and there is a reason that every 4 yos doesn't to kindergarten -- they just don't have the maturity to handle it yet.)

My DD is smart as can be and at the top of her class academically, so she's probably be bored a grade below (and is why we sent her on time), but she'd be a better fit in the lower grade socially, physically and emotionally. If we'd started her with the grade below, I think she would have fit right in with those peers. Having gone "on time" her experience is more akin to a kid who was skipped ahead a grade and spends much of their childhood feeling socially behind and emotionally stressed by expectations that she can't ever seem to meet.

I'll just add that I know two other families with end of August/September birthday girls who wish they'd redshirted. Their kids are seriously struggling and not ready for middle school. One is going to pay for private middle school just to hold her daughter back. The other is s continuing, but the girl is increasingly ostracized socially. So out of 4 families who chose to send our late August kids on time, as of end of 5th grade, 2.5 out of 4 wish they'd redshirted.

And, that is a small sampling as I know plenty of kids who went with those birthdays and are doing just fine. These kids would struggle regardless of grade and something more is going on and they need support, not held back. For the girl who is having social issues, maybe the school is the problem, not the grade.

You have no basis to say that the kids would struggle the same amount regardless of their grade. That pure conjecture with no basis in reality. Especially when you know the kids and know that one of their biggest issues is maturity and that they track younger in both interests and abilities.

This. The idea that the prior poster thinks she knows better for another kid than their parents— who are fully compliant with the existing rules— is why we don’t need more input from the anti-redshirt brigade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also for those saying it’s crazy to be annoyed, you likely are not impacted at all, Surely you can understand why it’s irritating to some people but not to you because it has zero impact on your child. People with kid spring birthdays who went on time or summer will notice it the most. I’m not anti red shirt but it is annoying to watch the older kids get some of the prime spots over your own kids for grade based activities. These are often my friends kids so I’m happy for them but it’s a fact my own kid is at a bit of a disadvantage when the competition is so much older.

If this annoys you I have a feeling a talented kid who always got the prime spots even if they were younger would annoy you too. When you can’t attribute it to age why are you going to think your kid isn’t getting the prime spots and what are you going to do to address it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also for those saying it’s crazy to be annoyed, you likely are not impacted at all, Surely you can understand why it’s irritating to some people but not to you because it has zero impact on your child. People with kid spring birthdays who went on time or summer will notice it the most. I’m not anti red shirt but it is annoying to watch the older kids get some of the prime spots over your own kids for grade based activities. These are often my friends kids so I’m happy for them but it’s a fact my own kid is at a bit of a disadvantage when the competition is so much older.

My oldest is in 8th grade. I don’t even know what “prime spots for grade based activities” you could be referring to. 5-7th graders routinely are finalists (or win in one case) in our district’s spelling bee over the 8th graders. AMC math 8 puts an age limit of 14.5 for contestants..

I really can’t think how a red shirted child significantly impacts yours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People really forget what it looks like to send a kid to kindergarten who isn't ready. You end up with child who continually disrupts the entire classroom and who ends up 100% miserable because they can't seem to meet expectations and view themselves as bad.

It really isn't good for the other students or teacher. Redshirting for maturity isn't the same as for a sports advantage.

I have zero problem with redshirting for maturity. But I agree with OP that outside of a certain age window (say within 3 months of the cutoff, which would cover all summer birthday for a Sep 1 cutoff), a redshirting decision should require some kind of assessment or evidence of delays. Because some people will say they are redshirting for maturity, but they aren't. If you are redshirting a January birthday, and there is no clear evidence that it's necessary, I just assume it's because you are trying to work an advantage.

Bracing to be called a "crazed anti-redshirter" even though I literally just expressed support for redshirting in 3, 2, 1...

NP. Your position is pretty much the most reasonable one on this thread!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

She isn't getting an extra year of childhood, she's losing an extra year of being an adult. She will turn 18 regardless. And, that sounds like a bad idea at an outdoor-focused preschool vs. an academic one. We started our September kid at 4/5 and it's been good. When I ask them, they are glad we didn't hold them back. They don't remember preschool at all so the benefit was far smaller than you think. How do you think she'll feel when her true peers go off to college and she's still stuck for a year in high school. It may sound good now but when your kids get high school age, it's very different.

I guess you just have to realize that not all kids are okay to start kindergarten at age 4/5. We sent our first "on time" as a 4-turning-5 yo and she was constantly in trouble and ended up in the principal's office almost daily the entire first month of school. All of K and first she'd sob at bedtime every night about how much she hated school and how she was a bad kid and they didn't want her there. Then she'd sob again the next morning and we'd fight her to get out the door. Then she'd get in trouble again and again. Really, it wasn't "good." We made it through and she's okay now, with only occasional issues, but we're about to start middle school with her as the youngest and smallest kid in the grade and I'm holding my breath all over again.

(She attended a quality preschool program for two years before K, so she should have been prepared for K. She doesn't have special needs. She was just being a 4 yo and there is a reason that every 4 yos doesn't to kindergarten -- they just don't have the maturity to handle it yet.)

My DD is smart as can be and at the top of her class academically, so she's probably be bored a grade below (and is why we sent her on time), but she'd be a better fit in the lower grade socially, physically and emotionally. If we'd started her with the grade below, I think she would have fit right in with those peers. Having gone "on time" her experience is more akin to a kid who was skipped ahead a grade and spends much of their childhood feeling socially behind and emotionally stressed by expectations that she can't ever seem to meet.

I'll just add that I know two other families with end of August/September birthday girls who wish they'd redshirted. Their kids are seriously struggling and not ready for middle school. One is going to pay for private middle school just to hold her daughter back. The other is s continuing, but the girl is increasingly ostracized socially. So out of 4 families who chose to send our late August kids on time, as of end of 5th grade, 2.5 out of 4 wish they'd redshirted.

And, that is a small sampling as I know plenty of kids who went with those birthdays and are doing just fine. These kids would struggle regardless of grade and something more is going on and they need support, not held back. For the girl who is having social issues, maybe the school is the problem, not the grade.

+1. That PP knows two who wish they’d been redshirted and we know many who are doing fine in the grade they are supposed to be in and a few who are doing great above the grade they are supposed to be in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People really forget what it looks like to send a kid to kindergarten who isn't ready. You end up with child who continually disrupts the entire classroom and who ends up 100% miserable because they can't seem to meet expectations and view themselves as bad.

It really isn't good for the other students or teacher. Redshirting for maturity isn't the same as for a sports advantage.

I have zero problem with redshirting for maturity. But I agree with OP that outside of a certain age window (say within 3 months of the cutoff, which would cover all summer birthday for a Sep 1 cutoff), a redshirting decision should require some kind of assessment or evidence of delays. Because some people will say they are redshirting for maturity, but they aren't. If you are redshirting a January birthday, and there is no clear evidence that it's necessary, I just assume it's because you are trying to work an advantage.

Bracing to be called a "crazed anti-redshirter" even though I literally just expressed support for redshirting in 3, 2, 1...

NP. Your position is pretty much the most reasonable one on this thread!

It's the literal premise of the thread, but some posters freak out at any implication that ANY form of redshirting might cause problems for the rest of the cohort. It's baffling to me. Some flexibility in cutoffs is good because kids mature at different ages and some kids absolutely have delays or special needs that can be addressed by a later start. But the idea that ALL redshirting is fine and that it doesn't matter at all if there is a 2 year age range in a grade is so weird to me. If that's your attitude, why have cut offs at all? The whole point is to create a somewhat cohesive band of kids who are largely in the same place intellectually, socially, and emotionally.

[Anonymous]

Easy to redshirt. Fast forward. Harder when it's a 19 year old man still in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Easy to redshirt. Fast forward. Harder when it's a 19 year old man still in high school.

You don’t know how to do math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also for those saying it’s crazy to be annoyed, you likely are not impacted at all, Surely you can understand why it’s irritating to some people but not to you because it has zero impact on your child. People with kid spring birthdays who went on time or summer will notice it the most. I’m not anti red shirt but it is annoying to watch the older kids get some of the prime spots over your own kids for grade based activities. These are often my friends kids so I’m happy for them but it’s a fact my own kid is at a bit of a disadvantage when the competition is so much older.

It really is not a fair practice at all. My son is a late June birthday and really struggled more than he should have because of how many boys more than a year older than him really got all the opportunities. And this practice is not standard elsewhere. Only in this area that attracts all the nerdy wannabes and will do anything to give their kids a leg up. My son is at a very competitive university now and has many friends in his year who are even younger than him. Mostly from the Northeast and New England.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Easy to redshirt. Fast forward. Harder when it's a 19 year old man still in high school.

You don’t know how to do math.

DP. I definitely had some kids in my senior class that turned 19 before we graduated. They had February or March birthdays, and I don’t think they were “redshirted”, but were held back a grade at some point (this was the 80’s).

Now, redshirted kids born in the summer will turn 19 between HS and college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also for those saying it’s crazy to be annoyed, you likely are not impacted at all, Surely you can understand why it’s irritating to some people but not to you because it has zero impact on your child. People with kid spring birthdays who went on time or summer will notice it the most. I’m not anti red shirt but it is annoying to watch the older kids get some of the prime spots over your own kids for grade based activities. These are often my friends kids so I’m happy for them but it’s a fact my own kid is at a bit of a disadvantage when the competition is so much older.

It really is not a fair practice at all. My son is a late June birthday and really struggled more than he should have because of how many boys more than a year older than him really got all the opportunities. And this practice is not standard elsewhere. Only in this area that attracts all the nerdy wannabes and will do anything to give their kids a leg up. My son is at a very competitive university now and has many friends in his year who are even younger than him. Mostly from the Northeast and New England.

If your kid is going to be either youngest or oldest in their class, what would you pick?