Do great students sometimes get shut out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shut out of top, but fallback was UT-Austin in state auto admit. They were good only bc they had a strong safety.

person 1 - 1600 SAT, rank 1 out of 600+, rejected all ivies, lots of AP, stanford, michigan, duke, chicago, northwestern, varsity sport

person 2 - 1580 SAT, top 5%, lots of AP, varsity sport, rejected UVA, UNC, Duke.

Have a good safety!

Should have mentioned - both were rejected everywhere but their safety

same for my high stats magnet kid. It was rough.

I always told my high stat magnet kid - be a MIT worthy kid who goes to UMD. And that's what happened. Did he apply to MIT? Heck, yes!! Harvard? Never. UMD - Absolutely!! Was it rough? Not at all. The money that UMD gave him and the money he saved by not going to MIT helped him to invest in the stock market. He is already ahead.

Asking out of genuine curiosity, not snark - why did he apply to MIT if he already knew he wouldn’t go? In our family’s case, we didn’t let DC apply anywhere we weren’t prepared to pay full freight for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s about the difference between a competitive candidate and a compelling candidate.

I just heard Duke’s AO speak about this on a recent podcast. Super helpful.

Agree.
People think high stats gets you in. Look at what ppl are posting. Stats are irrelevant after a certain point. It does not get you “in”. Just gets your app read.

Lower (but still baseline) stats can get you in, if you are otherwise “compelling” (defined as geo diversity; major (way more relevant than people think); identity hooks; what you do inside and outside the classroom (evidenced by LOR and national awards); and most importantly, whether the school needs more of that type of person this year).

You want to be the type of student who fits into a specific bucket.

Apply widely bc you don’t know what buckets each school needs that year.

This feels like a "Game of Luck."

Luck and games. Private school kids play the game better. At least the hundreds of thousands of dollars they spent on tuition will let them overspend for college too.

You can play the same game too. Learn the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shut out of top, but fallback was UT-Austin in state auto admit. They were good only bc they had a strong safety.

person 1 - 1600 SAT, rank 1 out of 600+, rejected all ivies, lots of AP, stanford, michigan, duke, chicago, northwestern, varsity sport

person 2 - 1580 SAT, top 5%, lots of AP, varsity sport, rejected UVA, UNC, Duke.

Have a good safety!

Should have mentioned - both were rejected everywhere but their safety

same for my high stats magnet kid. It was rough.

I always told my high stat magnet kid - be a MIT worthy kid who goes to UMD. And that's what happened. Did he apply to MIT? Heck, yes!! Harvard? Never. UMD - Absolutely!! Was it rough? Not at all. The money that UMD gave him and the money he saved by not going to MIT helped him to invest in the stock market. He is already ahead.

Asking out of genuine curiosity, not snark - why did he apply to MIT if he already knew he wouldn’t go? In our family’s case, we didn’t let DC apply anywhere we weren’t prepared to pay full freight for.

Just to see if they can get in. My kid did the same thing for a few schools. Applied to a few schools that were an academic match but maybe didn’t love the area but applied anyways and got in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s about the difference between a competitive candidate and a compelling candidate.

I just heard Duke’s AO speak about this on a recent podcast. Super helpful.

Agree.
People think high stats gets you in. Look at what ppl are posting. Stats are irrelevant after a certain point. It does not get you “in”. Just gets your app read.

Lower (but still baseline) stats can get you in, if you are otherwise “compelling” (defined as geo diversity; major (way more relevant than people think); identity hooks; what you do inside and outside the classroom (evidenced by LOR and national awards); and most importantly, whether the school needs more of that type of person this year).

You want to be the type of student who fits into a specific bucket.

Apply widely bc you don’t know what buckets each school needs that year.

This feels like a "Game of Luck."

Luck and games. Private school kids play the game better. At least the hundreds of thousands of dollars they spent on tuition will let them overspend for college too.

My kids went to private K-8, then got into a better public magnet high school that is superior in academics in our area. The magnet had a good relationship with top schools, but there is no college advising or help along the way. We voraciously researched and learned the “game” as best we could and it paid off. Youngest after a move ended up as a day student at a boarding school. The college advising started early (we missed all that), lots of help finding opportunities to fill holes, and top notch LOR’s. They strictly limited applications too. I do not however think they offered any insight we didn’t already have or could find online.

My takeaway from our experience is that the schools relationship with the colleges was the biggest factor, the rest could be learned or mostly overcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s about the difference between a competitive candidate and a compelling candidate.

I just heard Duke’s AO speak about this on a recent podcast. Super helpful.

Agree.
People think high stats gets you in. Look at what ppl are posting. Stats are irrelevant after a certain point. It does not get you “in”. Just gets your app read.

Lower (but still baseline) stats can get you in, if you are otherwise “compelling” (defined as geo diversity; major (way more relevant than people think); identity hooks; what you do inside and outside the classroom (evidenced by LOR and national awards); and most importantly, whether the school needs more of that type of person this year).

You want to be the type of student who fits into a specific bucket.

Apply widely bc you don’t know what buckets each school needs that year.

This feels like a "Game of Luck."

Luck and games. Private school kids play the game better. At least the hundreds of thousands of dollars they spent on tuition will let them overspend for college too.

My kids went to private K-8, then got into a better public magnet high school that is superior in academics in our area. The magnet had a good relationship with top schools, but there is no college advising or help along the way. We voraciously researched and learned the “game” as best we could and it paid off. Youngest after a move ended up as a day student at a boarding school. The college advising started early (we missed all that), lots of help finding opportunities to fill holes, and top notch LOR’s. They strictly limited applications too. I do not however think they offered any insight we didn’t already have or could find online.

My takeaway from our experience is that the schools relationship with the colleges was the biggest factor, the rest could be learned or mostly overcome.

Agree with this wholeheartedly.

[Anonymous]

Shut out of what? Kids with strong applications will get plenty of honors college and merit offers at both safeties and targets. That is the only logical choice for most families given the price of T20 schools. The ROI of 90k a year cannot be good. If you must have the prestige of a T20, play the ED game because that is how these colleges fill their ranks with full pay kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shut out of what? Kids with strong applications will get plenty of honors college and merit offers at both safeties and targets. That is the only logical choice for most families given the price of T20 schools. The ROI of 90k a year cannot be good. If you must have the prestige of a T20, play the ED game because that is how these colleges fill their ranks with full pay kids.

Most of us are full pay of we are gunning for T20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has an EA acceptance to his top choice in hand, so this is pretty much anxiety and idle curiosity speaking. Since admissions can be holistic and somewhat capricious, what happens when a solid student (say, 4+ GPA and 1400+ SAT with great EC's) is shut out from everywhere they applied, even targets and safeties? I'm guessing this happens with a lot of safeties that have more of an 80% admit rate than higher. Do you know anyone this has happened to?

If the student applies to several TRUE safeties (versus what they think should be safeties), then no, they won't get shut out.

sure, but who the hell knows what a safety is when Tennessee just had a 27% acceptance rate? I know sooo many kids who were rejected and deferred EA to UT when that ABSOLUTELY should have been a safety.

UT’s quick rise in popularity and selectivity isn’t a secret. It has been well documented. If you were surprised by it this year you haven’t been paying attention. You’re like my elderly mom who thinks that my kid should be UT Austin (my sibling’s safety) or UCLA (my safety) because they used to be easy admits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has an EA acceptance to his top choice in hand, so this is pretty much anxiety and idle curiosity speaking. Since admissions can be holistic and somewhat capricious, what happens when a solid student (say, 4+ GPA and 1400+ SAT with great EC's) is shut out from everywhere they applied, even targets and safeties? I'm guessing this happens with a lot of safeties that have more of an 80% admit rate than higher. Do you know anyone this has happened to?

If the student applies to several TRUE safeties (versus what they think should be safeties), then no, they won't get shut out.

sure, but who the hell knows what a safety is when Tennessee just had a 27% acceptance rate? I know sooo many kids who were rejected and deferred EA to UT when that ABSOLUTELY should have been a safety.

UT’s quick rise in popularity and selectivity isn’t a secret. It has been well documented. If you were surprised by it this year you haven’t been paying attention. You’re like my elderly mom who thinks that my kid should be UT Austin (my sibling’s safety) or UCLA (my safety) because they used to be easy admits.

SEC schools have become very unpredictable. UGA is no longer a safety for anyone except the very top, T-10 level kids. The other SEC schools are moving in the same direction.

[Anonymous]

It’s a different world. Tufts was my safety.

[Anonymous]

I know many kids who didn't want a true safety. There's an opportunity cost. As my son's friend told me, "if I go into a store and they dont have the jeans I want, I don't just take the cheapest ones and live with it."

I went from believing in true safety to believing in a list of colleges you'll be happy attending.

I know many kids who had no safeties (our high school doesn't stress safeties - although they make clear that you should have a plan) and three were shut out. One did au pair in France for a year, applied again and got into Dartmouth. One worked full time for an anti-poverty/food distribution NFP, applied again and got into Mendoza. One went to Hunter (nyc cuny) and transferred into Vandy.

it's not a bomb. there's no fuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a different world. Tufts was my safety.

Wash U was mine. It’s something many of us parents who attended selective schools have learned or are learning to accept. It’s a different world and we’re doing our kids a disservice if we feed them outdated expectations based on how things used to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shut out of top, but fallback was UT-Austin in state auto admit. They were good only bc they had a strong safety.

person 1 - 1600 SAT, rank 1 out of 600+, rejected all ivies, lots of AP, stanford, michigan, duke, chicago, northwestern, varsity sport

person 2 - 1580 SAT, top 5%, lots of AP, varsity sport, rejected UVA, UNC, Duke.

Have a good safety!

Should have mentioned - both were rejected everywhere but their safety

same for my high stats magnet kid. It was rough.

I always told my high stat magnet kid - be a MIT worthy kid who goes to UMD. And that's what happened. Did he apply to MIT? Heck, yes!! Harvard? Never. UMD - Absolutely!! Was it rough? Not at all. The money that UMD gave him and the money he saved by not going to MIT helped him to invest in the stock market. He is already ahead.

We're seeing more and more of those types there. And further, we're seeing a lot of actual MIT (along w/Stanford, Berkeley and a few others) undergrad alums choosing to do their grad work at UMD. Pretty cool.

[Anonymous]

I've never heard of a high stats kid who got shut out of targets and safeties, maybe one or two but really they had no issues there (or the parent considered something a safety that should not be considered a safety)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a different world. Tufts was my safety.

You're the reason they invented yield protection