Do great students sometimes get shut out?

Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Ok, but students do get rejected from safeties who rejected 90%+.


I see this happening to my niece. Rejected at some true safety schools as part of yield protection. And she didn't show enough interest. So you need to be careful. My take is make sure some of your safeties are the big schools who care less about this.


Get over the yield protection thing. How many times do have to tell you that public schools (which generally includes high admission rate schools) DO NOT yield protect?


You are wrong, esp. in regards to OOS students. Michigan and Georgia Tech are two prime examples.


Your argument doesn't make sense. Why would either yield protect? Kids aren't exactly overqualified for either. This is nothing more than trying to justify a rejection.


How else do you explain how a lot of applicants from my kids' top tier private with SCEA admits to HYMPS are deferred, while their slightly-less qualified classmates are accepted EA to Michigan? The data on GT, I'll admit, are thin. The pattern at Michigan is clear though.



+1

Michigan 100% yield protects. They certify that they do! In CDS demonstrated interest field.

6 students with HYPSM admits were deferred at Michigan, including my child. We did not bother submitting LOCI and I dont think any of the others did as well, since Michigan is like 4th or 5th choice at this point.

Of course we did not know child would be lucky and the essays were of same quality as for T15 privates.



Then how on earth is anyone supposed to get into....well, let's not call it a safety, since Michigan is not, but how is anyone supposed to play it safe by applying to schools they're overqualified for?


For Michigan in particular, you have to convince the admissions officer that you were likely to attend in your essays. They cannot be an afterthought. You might actually spend more time on those essays then for higher ranked schools.


My advice, if you are still reading:
For any selective school's supplement:
if any other kid could write your supplement, you are doing it wrong, and haven't researched and tailored it to your facts and circumstances.

My DD, admitted to Michigan EA OOS, started working on the Mich supplement in June or July. Wrote many drafts. Finished it in early October. Applied in early Oct. And then continued to refine that shell or storyline for several other T20 Why Major/Why School supplements.
And at the end of the process, no other supp quite looked like the Michigan supp - it was well thought out, personalized, detailed, and unique. The brainstorming and research took a while. It's more than listing classes and professors (if they wanted that it would be a 150-200 word essay). Its more how you think about engaging with your academics at Michigan and being a Wolverine and what that means to you.


Colleges encourage this type of lying and then decry the lack of ethics among students.

What a shame!


Isn't this what you do for every college's supplement? What's the difference? Where's the lie?


Presumably the essays for schools the student actually wants to go to are honest.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but students do get rejected from safeties who rejected 90%+.


I see this happening to my niece. Rejected at some true safety schools as part of yield protection. And she didn't show enough interest. So you need to be careful. My take is make sure some of your safeties are the big schools who care less about this.


Get over the yield protection thing. How many times do have to tell you that public schools (which generally includes high admission rate schools) DO NOT yield protect?


You are wrong, esp. in regards to OOS students. Michigan and Georgia Tech are two prime examples.


Your argument doesn't make sense. Why would either yield protect? Kids aren't exactly overqualified for either. This is nothing more than trying to justify a rejection.


How else do you explain how a lot of applicants from my kids' top tier private with SCEA admits to HYMPS are deferred, while their slightly-less qualified classmates are accepted EA to Michigan? The data on GT, I'll admit, are thin. The pattern at Michigan is clear though.



+1

Michigan 100% yield protects. They certify that they do! In CDS demonstrated interest field.

6 students with HYPSM admits were deferred at Michigan, including my child. We did not bother submitting LOCI and I dont think any of the others did as well, since Michigan is like 4th or 5th choice at this point.

Of course we did not know child would be lucky and the essays were of same quality as for T15 privates.



Then how on earth is anyone supposed to get into....well, let's not call it a safety, since Michigan is not, but how is anyone supposed to play it safe by applying to schools they're overqualified for?


For Michigan in particular, you have to convince the admissions officer that you were likely to attend in your essays. They cannot be an afterthought. You might actually spend more time on those essays then for higher ranked schools.


My advice, if you are still reading:
For any selective school's supplement:
if any other kid could write your supplement, you are doing it wrong, and haven't researched and tailored it to your facts and circumstances.

My DD, admitted to Michigan EA OOS, started working on the Mich supplement in June or July. Wrote many drafts. Finished it in early October. Applied in early Oct. And then continued to refine that shell or storyline for several other T20 Why Major/Why School supplements.
And at the end of the process, no other supp quite looked like the Michigan supp - it was well thought out, personalized, detailed, and unique. The brainstorming and research took a while. It's more than listing classes and professors (if they wanted that it would be a 150-200 word essay). Its more how you think about engaging with your academics at Michigan and being a Wolverine and what that means to you.


Colleges encourage this type of lying and then decry the lack of ethics among students.

What a shame!


Isn't this what you do for every college's supplement? What's the difference? Where's the lie?


Presumably the essays for schools the student actually wants to go to are honest.


Who has multiple schools on the same level of "want to go here"? Below 1-2 top choices, everything else is "meh, could deal if I had to."
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but students do get rejected from safeties who rejected 90%+.


I see this happening to my niece. Rejected at some true safety schools as part of yield protection. And she didn't show enough interest. So you need to be careful. My take is make sure some of your safeties are the big schools who care less about this.


Get over the yield protection thing. How many times do have to tell you that public schools (which generally includes high admission rate schools) DO NOT yield protect?


You are wrong, esp. in regards to OOS students. Michigan and Georgia Tech are two prime examples.


Your argument doesn't make sense. Why would either yield protect? Kids aren't exactly overqualified for either. This is nothing more than trying to justify a rejection.


How else do you explain how a lot of applicants from my kids' top tier private with SCEA admits to HYMPS are deferred, while their slightly-less qualified classmates are accepted EA to Michigan? The data on GT, I'll admit, are thin. The pattern at Michigan is clear though.



+1

Michigan 100% yield protects. They certify that they do! In CDS demonstrated interest field.

6 students with HYPSM admits were deferred at Michigan, including my child. We did not bother submitting LOCI and I dont think any of the others did as well, since Michigan is like 4th or 5th choice at this point.

Of course we did not know child would be lucky and the essays were of same quality as for T15 privates.



Then how on earth is anyone supposed to get into....well, let's not call it a safety, since Michigan is not, but how is anyone supposed to play it safe by applying to schools they're overqualified for?


For Michigan in particular, you have to convince the admissions officer that you were likely to attend in your essays. They cannot be an afterthought. You might actually spend more time on those essays then for higher ranked schools.


My advice, if you are still reading:
For any selective school's supplement:
if any other kid could write your supplement, you are doing it wrong, and haven't researched and tailored it to your facts and circumstances.

My DD, admitted to Michigan EA OOS, started working on the Mich supplement in June or July. Wrote many drafts. Finished it in early October. Applied in early Oct. And then continued to refine that shell or storyline for several other T20 Why Major/Why School supplements.
And at the end of the process, no other supp quite looked like the Michigan supp - it was well thought out, personalized, detailed, and unique. The brainstorming and research took a while. It's more than listing classes and professors (if they wanted that it would be a 150-200 word essay). Its more how you think about engaging with your academics at Michigan and being a Wolverine and what that means to you.


Colleges encourage this type of lying and then decry the lack of ethics among students.

What a shame!


Isn't this what you do for every college's supplement? What's the difference? Where's the lie?


Presumably the essays for schools the student actually wants to go to are honest.


Who has multiple schools on the same level of "want to go here"? Below 1-2 top choices, everything else is "meh, could deal if I had to."


Our school makes kids rank the top 5 (private HS) and asks in 1-on-1 meetings in January.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but students do get rejected from safeties who rejected 90%+.


I see this happening to my niece. Rejected at some true safety schools as part of yield protection. And she didn't show enough interest. So you need to be careful. My take is make sure some of your safeties are the big schools who care less about this.


Get over the yield protection thing. How many times do have to tell you that public schools (which generally includes high admission rate schools) DO NOT yield protect?


You are wrong, esp. in regards to OOS students. Michigan and Georgia Tech are two prime examples.


Your argument doesn't make sense. Why would either yield protect? Kids aren't exactly overqualified for either. This is nothing more than trying to justify a rejection.


How else do you explain how a lot of applicants from my kids' top tier private with SCEA admits to HYMPS are deferred, while their slightly-less qualified classmates are accepted EA to Michigan? The data on GT, I'll admit, are thin. The pattern at Michigan is clear though.



+1

Michigan 100% yield protects. They certify that they do! In CDS demonstrated interest field.

6 students with HYPSM admits were deferred at Michigan, including my child. We did not bother submitting LOCI and I dont think any of the others did as well, since Michigan is like 4th or 5th choice at this point.

Of course we did not know child would be lucky and the essays were of same quality as for T15 privates.



Then how on earth is anyone supposed to get into....well, let's not call it a safety, since Michigan is not, but how is anyone supposed to play it safe by applying to schools they're overqualified for?


For Michigan in particular, you have to convince the admissions officer that you were likely to attend in your essays. They cannot be an afterthought. You might actually spend more time on those essays then for higher ranked schools.


My advice, if you are still reading:
For any selective school's supplement:
if any other kid could write your supplement, you are doing it wrong, and haven't researched and tailored it to your facts and circumstances.

My DD, admitted to Michigan EA OOS, started working on the Mich supplement in June or July. Wrote many drafts. Finished it in early October. Applied in early Oct. And then continued to refine that shell or storyline for several other T20 Why Major/Why School supplements.
And at the end of the process, no other supp quite looked like the Michigan supp - it was well thought out, personalized, detailed, and unique. The brainstorming and research took a while. It's more than listing classes and professors (if they wanted that it would be a 150-200 word essay). Its more how you think about engaging with your academics at Michigan and being a Wolverine and what that means to you.


Colleges encourage this type of lying and then decry the lack of ethics among students.

What a shame!


Isn't this what you do for every college's supplement? What's the difference? Where's the lie?


Presumably the essays for schools the student actually wants to go to are honest.


Who has multiple schools on the same level of "want to go here"? Below 1-2 top choices, everything else is "meh, could deal if I had to."


Our school makes kids rank the top 5 (private HS) and asks in 1-on-1 meetings in January.


Yes, but I bet 3-5 (maybe even 2-5) are basically the same. Even for top privates where it's Ivy or bust, one school floats to the top and the rest are backups.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but students do get rejected from safeties who rejected 90%+.


I see this happening to my niece. Rejected at some true safety schools as part of yield protection. And she didn't show enough interest. So you need to be careful. My take is make sure some of your safeties are the big schools who care less about this.


Get over the yield protection thing. How many times do have to tell you that public schools (which generally includes high admission rate schools) DO NOT yield protect?


You are wrong, esp. in regards to OOS students. Michigan and Georgia Tech are two prime examples.


Your argument doesn't make sense. Why would either yield protect? Kids aren't exactly overqualified for either. This is nothing more than trying to justify a rejection.


How else do you explain how a lot of applicants from my kids' top tier private with SCEA admits to HYMPS are deferred, while their slightly-less qualified classmates are accepted EA to Michigan? The data on GT, I'll admit, are thin. The pattern at Michigan is clear though.



+1

Michigan 100% yield protects. They certify that they do! In CDS demonstrated interest field.

6 students with HYPSM admits were deferred at Michigan, including my child. We did not bother submitting LOCI and I dont think any of the others did as well, since Michigan is like 4th or 5th choice at this point.

Of course we did not know child would be lucky and the essays were of same quality as for T15 privates.



Then how on earth is anyone supposed to get into....well, let's not call it a safety, since Michigan is not, but how is anyone supposed to play it safe by applying to schools they're overqualified for?


For Michigan in particular, you have to convince the admissions officer that you were likely to attend in your essays. They cannot be an afterthought. You might actually spend more time on those essays then for higher ranked schools.


My advice, if you are still reading:
For any selective school's supplement:
if any other kid could write your supplement, you are doing it wrong, and haven't researched and tailored it to your facts and circumstances.

My DD, admitted to Michigan EA OOS, started working on the Mich supplement in June or July. Wrote many drafts. Finished it in early October. Applied in early Oct. And then continued to refine that shell or storyline for several other T20 Why Major/Why School supplements.
And at the end of the process, no other supp quite looked like the Michigan supp - it was well thought out, personalized, detailed, and unique. The brainstorming and research took a while. It's more than listing classes and professors (if they wanted that it would be a 150-200 word essay). Its more how you think about engaging with your academics at Michigan and being a Wolverine and what that means to you.


Colleges encourage this type of lying and then decry the lack of ethics among students.

What a shame!


Isn't this what you do for every college's supplement? What's the difference? Where's the lie?


Presumably the essays for schools the student actually wants to go to are honest.


Who has multiple schools on the same level of "want to go here"? Below 1-2 top choices, everything else is "meh, could deal if I had to."


Our school makes kids rank the top 5 (private HS) and asks in 1-on-1 meetings in January.


Yes, but I bet 3-5 (maybe even 2-5) are basically the same. Even for top privates where it's Ivy or bust, one school floats to the top and the rest are backups.


Sure. But kid applied to 20+ schools so the top 5 materially standout. At least 10-12 are true reaches.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but students do get rejected from safeties who rejected 90%+.


I see this happening to my niece. Rejected at some true safety schools as part of yield protection. And she didn't show enough interest. So you need to be careful. My take is make sure some of your safeties are the big schools who care less about this.


Get over the yield protection thing. How many times do have to tell you that public schools (which generally includes high admission rate schools) DO NOT yield protect?


You are wrong, esp. in regards to OOS students. Michigan and Georgia Tech are two prime examples.


Your argument doesn't make sense. Why would either yield protect? Kids aren't exactly overqualified for either. This is nothing more than trying to justify a rejection.


How else do you explain how a lot of applicants from my kids' top tier private with SCEA admits to HYMPS are deferred, while their slightly-less qualified classmates are accepted EA to Michigan? The data on GT, I'll admit, are thin. The pattern at Michigan is clear though.



+1

Michigan 100% yield protects. They certify that they do! In CDS demonstrated interest field.

6 students with HYPSM admits were deferred at Michigan, including my child. We did not bother submitting LOCI and I dont think any of the others did as well, since Michigan is like 4th or 5th choice at this point.

Of course we did not know child would be lucky and the essays were of same quality as for T15 privates.



Then how on earth is anyone supposed to get into....well, let's not call it a safety, since Michigan is not, but how is anyone supposed to play it safe by applying to schools they're overqualified for?


For Michigan in particular, you have to convince the admissions officer that you were likely to attend in your essays. They cannot be an afterthought. You might actually spend more time on those essays then for higher ranked schools.


My advice, if you are still reading:
For any selective school's supplement:
if any other kid could write your supplement, you are doing it wrong, and haven't researched and tailored it to your facts and circumstances.

My DD, admitted to Michigan EA OOS, started working on the Mich supplement in June or July. Wrote many drafts. Finished it in early October. Applied in early Oct. And then continued to refine that shell or storyline for several other T20 Why Major/Why School supplements.
And at the end of the process, no other supp quite looked like the Michigan supp - it was well thought out, personalized, detailed, and unique. The brainstorming and research took a while. It's more than listing classes and professors (if they wanted that it would be a 150-200 word essay). Its more how you think about engaging with your academics at Michigan and being a Wolverine and what that means to you.


Colleges encourage this type of lying and then decry the lack of ethics among students.

What a shame!


Isn't this what you do for every college's supplement? What's the difference? Where's the lie?


Presumably the essays for schools the student actually wants to go to are honest.


Who has multiple schools on the same level of "want to go here"? Below 1-2 top choices, everything else is "meh, could deal if I had to."


Our school makes kids rank the top 5 (private HS) and asks in 1-on-1 meetings in January.


Yes, but I bet 3-5 (maybe even 2-5) are basically the same. Even for top privates where it's Ivy or bust, one school floats to the top and the rest are backups.


Sure. But kid applied to 20+ schools so the top 5 materially standout. At least 10-12 are true reaches.


Applying to 20+ schools is not normal. And even if they apply to say, Yale and Harvard, odds are they REALLY want one and would be disappeared in a single admit to the other.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but students do get rejected from safeties who rejected 90%+.


I see this happening to my niece. Rejected at some true safety schools as part of yield protection. And she didn't show enough interest. So you need to be careful. My take is make sure some of your safeties are the big schools who care less about this.


Get over the yield protection thing. How many times do have to tell you that public schools (which generally includes high admission rate schools) DO NOT yield protect?


You are wrong, esp. in regards to OOS students. Michigan and Georgia Tech are two prime examples.


Your argument doesn't make sense. Why would either yield protect? Kids aren't exactly overqualified for either. This is nothing more than trying to justify a rejection.


How else do you explain how a lot of applicants from my kids' top tier private with SCEA admits to HYMPS are deferred, while their slightly-less qualified classmates are accepted EA to Michigan? The data on GT, I'll admit, are thin. The pattern at Michigan is clear though.



+1

Michigan 100% yield protects. They certify that they do! In CDS demonstrated interest field.

6 students with HYPSM admits were deferred at Michigan, including my child. We did not bother submitting LOCI and I dont think any of the others did as well, since Michigan is like 4th or 5th choice at this point.

Of course we did not know child would be lucky and the essays were of same quality as for T15 privates.



Then how on earth is anyone supposed to get into....well, let's not call it a safety, since Michigan is not, but how is anyone supposed to play it safe by applying to schools they're overqualified for?


For Michigan in particular, you have to convince the admissions officer that you were likely to attend in your essays. They cannot be an afterthought. You might actually spend more time on those essays then for higher ranked schools.


My advice, if you are still reading:
For any selective school's supplement:
if any other kid could write your supplement, you are doing it wrong, and haven't researched and tailored it to your facts and circumstances.

My DD, admitted to Michigan EA OOS, started working on the Mich supplement in June or July. Wrote many drafts. Finished it in early October. Applied in early Oct. And then continued to refine that shell or storyline for several other T20 Why Major/Why School supplements.
And at the end of the process, no other supp quite looked like the Michigan supp - it was well thought out, personalized, detailed, and unique. The brainstorming and research took a while. It's more than listing classes and professors (if they wanted that it would be a 150-200 word essay). Its more how you think about engaging with your academics at Michigan and being a Wolverine and what that means to you.


Colleges encourage this type of lying and then decry the lack of ethics among students.

What a shame!


Isn't this what you do for every college's supplement? What's the difference? Where's the lie?


Presumably the essays for schools the student actually wants to go to are honest.


Who has multiple schools on the same level of "want to go here"? Below 1-2 top choices, everything else is "meh, could deal if I had to."


Our school makes kids rank the top 5 (private HS) and asks in 1-on-1 meetings in January.


Yes, but I bet 3-5 (maybe even 2-5) are basically the same. Even for top privates where it's Ivy or bust, one school floats to the top and the rest are backups.


Sure. But kid applied to 20+ schools so the top 5 materially standout. At least 10-12 are true reaches.


Applying to 20+ schools is not normal. And even if they apply to say, Yale and Harvard, odds are they REALLY want one and would be disappeared in a single admit to the other.


So what?
Anonymous
Mine did, had 3.94 ugpa, 1580, good ECs and leadership. Rejected at upenn Econ, and UVA. Got into Stern...her similarly situated friends are all at T20.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Mine did, had 3.94 ugpa, 1580, good ECs and leadership. Rejected at upenn Econ, and UVA. Got into Stern...her similarly situated friends are all at T20.


I hope your student is happy! It may have felt disappointing, but it is hardly a failure to attend the top school at #30 NYU
Anonymous
How is stern being shut out???
Anonymous
I don’t want to sound mean but what you describe is a good student, not great. Great students get shut out all day long which is why a good student should assume that will be their fate. Being shut out is a factor of where you are applying so the lesson is - don’t assume your strong student will get into their top 10- for all sorts of reasons ranging from rich alumni and athletes to social engineering and dei goals which we can see from NYU is alive and well. Apply to enough school that you are assured entry to at least one. That’s reality now.
Anonymous
Don't be so worry about undergrad school. My great student did not get into Ivy but got into CMU, Rice. But choose to go to UMich. Disappointed (no ivy) but turn out to be great. If the student is good, she/he will succeed anywhere. Undergrad is so random and need a lot of luck. For grad school, this student got into phD at Stanford. It is easier to get into phD then in undergrad if you are a good student.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Don't be so worry about undergrad school. My great student did not get into Ivy but got into CMU, Rice. But choose to go to UMich. Disappointed (no ivy) but turn out to be great. If the student is good, she/he will succeed anywhere. Undergrad is so random and need a lot of luck. For grad school, this student got into phD at Stanford. It is easier to get into phD then in undergrad if you are a good student.


What a great story. Thank you!!! We all need to hear more of these.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Don't be so worry about undergrad school. My great student did not get into Ivy but got into CMU, Rice. But choose to go to UMich. Disappointed (no ivy) but turn out to be great. If the student is good, she/he will succeed anywhere. Undergrad is so random and need a lot of luck. For grad school, this student got into phD at Stanford. It is easier to get into phD then in undergrad if you are a good student.


LOL you think it's settling or "shut out" to get into UMich and Rice
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, but students do get rejected from safeties who rejected 90%+.


I see this happening to my niece. Rejected at some true safety schools as part of yield protection. And she didn't show enough interest. So you need to be careful. My take is make sure some of your safeties are the big schools who care less about this.


Get over the yield protection thing. How many times do have to tell you that public schools (which generally includes high admission rate schools) DO NOT yield protect?


You are wrong, esp. in regards to OOS students. Michigan and Georgia Tech are two prime examples.


Your argument doesn't make sense. Why would either yield protect? Kids aren't exactly overqualified for either. This is nothing more than trying to justify a rejection.


How else do you explain how a lot of applicants from my kids' top tier private with SCEA admits to HYMPS are deferred, while their slightly-less qualified classmates are accepted EA to Michigan? The data on GT, I'll admit, are thin. The pattern at Michigan is clear though.



Because it doesn't make sense to begin with. So what if a student admitted to Michigan chooses HYPSM? They decline Michigan and someone else takes their place. Yield does not suffer.

(full disclosure, I'm the OP of this thread)


Your understanding of yield is wrong. That is not how yield is calculated.


Ok, yeah, I get it now. But as long as they're filling a freshman class, and they always do, who cares who declines?


The schools care if lots of students decline their offers of admission 1) because low yield makes it hard to plan / hard to decide how many to accept/ hard to budget, and 2) high yield signifies that the school is very in demand. I think it's even one of the measures used to determine credit worthiness, so there are financial implications to low yield.
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