Think twice before hiring an advocate…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

Where do you think special education services take place? Usually not in general education settings. Yes, there are push-in options, but pull-outs are still more common. Pulling out of gen ed to provide special education is more restrictive than not doing so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jaw dropped. IDEA clearly states that it is against the law to label a child with an educational disability unless they have a significant impairment or need. That means below grade level or SIGNIFICANTLY behind peers. IDEA and every IEP also states law for Least Restrictive Environment. A child cannot be taken from the general education setting into a special education setting (group or individual) unless the nature and severity of the disability warrants. This is the law. This is what all special education teachers must follow.

Your comments are so over the top ridiculous. I cannot believe there are parents who actually have these expectations of the school system. Or even think that there are professionals to staff this! Or who would do it!

Here is what you sound like: Why doesn't everyone with a cold get a stay in the hospital overnight? They should just hire more nurses. Just find the nurses! Its not my problem if there aren't enough nurses. Everybody should get their own room too- no sharing. And Nobody's insurances rates should go up. The hospitals just need to manage their funds better. Don't let them try to tell you you don't have a life threatening illness. They are wrong. You knw better than the doctors because is is your body, and the doctors don't know anything. They probably aren't even real doctors and don't have their official training in X program. it is your RIGHT to stay in the hospital overnight if you have a cold. You better get an attorney when you talk to your doctor because the doctor will just try to tell you that a cold can be treated at home with over the counter medicine and rest. They do not have your best interest at heart. They do not know what they are talking about. Every doctor I have ever met at every school in FCPS is terrible! You wouldn't believe the things that the doctors have told me! Let's get a class action lawsuit with OCR and make them reimburse us for how terrible they treat us! We have COLDS!! That is how ridiculous you sound.

Do you realize how absurd you are being? Parents should get an advocate or attorney because of behavior like this at schools and the refusal to support our kids.

not to mention the complete misunderstanding of the law

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jaw dropped. IDEA clearly states that it is against the law to label a child with an educational disability unless they have a significant impairment or need. That means below grade level or SIGNIFICANTLY behind peers.

Ok I'll bite, please show us where the law says this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so a student with dyslexia that has average scores in some areas but other areas is years below, for example reading level as measured at the school is a lexile level 4-5 grades below their current grade level. Are they worthy of instruction according to your expertise views? Or do we just graduate kids from high school with an elementary school reading level? Is a parent asking for too much with that?

Yes! If they are 4-5 grades below level on certain reading skills - they are not who I am referring to as "almost average." Almost average means.... almost average. Not years below.

Oh ok, bc that child was denied an iep last week but I’m sure the administrator, special Ed department are all in it for the right reasons🙄. They don’t see an educational impact of that reading level, do you see why parents get upset?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a special education teacher (I also have a child with an IEP, so I have personal skin in the game). We just got the news that two of our fellow teachers have quit following a prolonged battle with a family and their advocate. This family required at least four IEP meetings to get to an IEP they’d be willing to sign- insulting and demoralizing two excellent teachers in the process who hadn’t even WORKED with the child yet.

Mostly I’m just asking you to assume good will. Stop coming into meetings assuming we want to screw your child’s life up and deny them FAPE. This was a particularly egregious case for me because it’s a child whose academics are so close to grade level!! And we were offering the child a good supportive plan to help them get there.
We are doing the best we can to serve ALL students with needs and come Monday my caseload is about 5 students higher. You don’t need to hire an advocate before you even meet with the team once. We aren’t out to deny your kid what they need to succeed academically.

Meaning your team came in prepared to give them the bare minimum because you've got more pressing issues on your case load.

Or maybe because they have X number of other students, and the reality is that they can't meet all of the needs some classrooms have.

I can see both sides. If giving one child more than the bare minimum means neglecting or not provided mandated services to three other students, which should they do? In many schools now, there are not enough special educators to provide more than the minimum to students. Many school districts have tried hiring more special education specialists, but even with incentives, there aren't enough people applying for the positions. If they only have enough staff to provide the bare minimum to all students, what does PP expect them to do? They are required by law to provide education for these students, so they have to ensure that everyone gets the bare minimum. If they have addtional staff or time, they can do more than the minimum, but in many school systems, that just isn't possible. There are only so many things that teachers can do when they don't have sufficient staffing or resources.

When, in your own job, you have been assigned too much work to complete, what do you do? You raise it to your leadership to identify how leadership wants you to handle it and to identify what your priorities are. If your leadership does not provide relief, you are in a unionized job and you want to stay in that job or feel committed to your clients/customers/students, what do you do? You bring it up with your union - must like nurses' unions are doing across the country. Why aren't the teachers' unions addressing this issue in addition to school administrations?

Have you not seen all the Washington Post articles about MCPS ignoring teachers complaints about sexual harassment. MCPS does not listen to teachers. And the union has limited power because it is not allowed by law to call a strike. MCPS routinely ignores many of the union demands. You are living in La La land my friend

Oh, Sweetie, I come from a long line of UAW and UMW members. Striking is hardly the only tool in the toolbox. A union is only as strong as its members. If you can't strike, you can always 'work to rule'. Hire a few GenZ social media content creators part time.

If the union isn't working, vote in new leadership rather than blame parents for doing right by their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree. A student with dyslexia who is performing "almost average" does not have a disability that prevents them from accessing the gen ed curriculum. Full stop. This doesn't mean parents shouldn't supplement with tutors etc., but they do not need special ed. I've said this earlier in the thread and I'll say it again: special ed is not there to help students with disabilities who are doing okay to reach their fullest potential. It's there to help students with significant impairments access the gen ed curriculum and/or achieve alternate curriculum goals. Do I agree that this is right? Doesn't matter - it's the law. If you don't like this then advocate to change IDEA (it's time for a revision, anyway). But don't attach the schools and teachers who are following current law.

It's fortunate for us that your warped opinion isn't supported by the courts. You're also the only one who thinks parents seek "full potential" for their kids. We are looking for a leveled playing field. If, but for their disability, my DC could achieve at the same level as other students, the school must provide specialized instruction. That, in no way, is the same as realizing 'full potential".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. A student with dyslexia who is performing "almost average" does not have a disability that prevents them from accessing the gen ed curriculum. Full stop. This doesn't mean parents shouldn't supplement with tutors etc., but they do not need special ed. I've said this earlier in the thread and I'll say it again: special ed is not there to help students with disabilities who are doing okay to reach their fullest potential. It's there to help students with significant impairments access the gen ed curriculum and/or achieve alternate curriculum goals. Do I agree that this is right? Doesn't matter - it's the law. If you don't like this then advocate to change IDEA (it's time for a revision, anyway). But don't attach the schools and teachers who are following current law.

It's fortunate for us that your warped opinion isn't supported by the courts. You're also the only one who thinks parents seek "full potential" for their kids. We are looking for a leveled playing field. If, but for their disability, my DC could achieve at the same level as other students, the school must provide specialized instruction. That, in no way, is the same as realizing 'full potential".

^^ PP here. Meant to add that I went thru this with FCPS who chose to provide those services rather than allow my state complaint to continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. A student with dyslexia who is performing "almost average" does not have a disability that prevents them from accessing the gen ed curriculum. Full stop. This doesn't mean parents shouldn't supplement with tutors etc., but they do not need special ed. I've said this earlier in the thread and I'll say it again: special ed is not there to help students with disabilities who are doing okay to reach their fullest potential. It's there to help students with significant impairments access the gen ed curriculum and/or achieve alternate curriculum goals. Do I agree that this is right? Doesn't matter - it's the law. If you don't like this then advocate to change IDEA (it's time for a revision, anyway). But don't attach the schools and teachers who are following current law.

It's fortunate for us that your warped opinion isn't supported by the courts. You're also the only one who thinks parents seek "full potential" for their kids. We are looking for a leveled playing field. If, but for their disability, my DC could achieve at the same level as other students, the school must provide specialized instruction. That, in no way, is the same as realizing 'full potential".

What part of IDEA says special education is for students who do not have an educational disability?
What part of IDEA says its for "level playing field?

To the other poster about court- just because you "win" with an advocate or complaint up the chain, does not mean you are "right." It typically means it is easier to give in than to continue a battle. Get over yourself! Your child is not more important than all the other children in FCPS who deserve FAPE.

[Anonymous]

Why is this thread so long and trolly-feeling? Ugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is this thread so long and trolly-feeling? Ugh.

It always gets trolly when the teacher haters jump on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this thread so long and trolly-feeling? Ugh.

It always gets trolly when the teacher haters jump on.

This teacher needs to quit and find a new profession.

[Anonymous]

In the late 1970's there were about 7.5% of students in special education, in the 1980's and 90's around 10 percent of students were in special education. Now it is up to 15%.

Some states are even higher. NY and Penn both have 20% of students in special ed, Conn. has 17%, DC has 16%, Virgina 14% while CA has 13% and TX has 12%.

As the numbers rise and the paperwork vastly increases, it is going to be harder and harder to find special education teachers. I don't think IDEA was meant to serve 20% of students. Will this increase more 30%, 40%?

[Anonymous]

Op here!
This was not a child denied an IEP. This was a child found eligible and given proposed goals in an area where they are approximately a grade level below average. The parent/advocate honed in on their iq score being in the high average range and decided they also need goals in a different area, where they were performing average but not meeting “their potential”. So the fight was about how many hours and whether they also need hours in an area they are currently successful in.

I’ve been part of several conversations like this so I don’t think this is particularly identifying information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: This is reaching qanon levels of misinformation. The Endrew F case set precedent that every child should have the chance to meet objectives that reasonably challenge them, not de minimus progress.

Amen -- a DCUM poster that knows the law!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a special education teacher (I also have a child with an IEP, so I have personal skin in the game). We just got the news that two of our fellow teachers have quit following a prolonged battle with a family and their advocate. This family required at least four IEP meetings to get to an IEP they’d be willing to sign- insulting and demoralizing two excellent teachers in the process who hadn’t even WORKED with the child yet.

Mostly I’m just asking you to assume good will. Stop coming into meetings assuming we want to screw your child’s life up and deny them FAPE. This was a particularly egregious case for me because it’s a child whose academics are so close to grade level!! And we were offering the child a good supportive plan to help them get there.
We are doing the best we can to serve ALL students with needs and come Monday my caseload is about 5 students higher. You don’t need to hire an advocate before you even meet with the team once. We aren’t out to deny your kid what they need to succeed academically.

So first of all my child's burden on the iep team consists of them sending bs progress reports that we all know are fiction once a year and a 20 minute phone call once a year so the burden of caseload is rich!
Second, if the child deserves a "good supportive plan" to begin with. Why would you be contentious about sealing that plan into writing? Certainly the Best interest you have in mind Is not the child 's