Think twice before hiring an advocate…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jaw dropped. IDEA clearly states that it is against the law to label a child with an educational disability unless they have a significant impairment or need. That means below grade level or SIGNIFICANTLY behind peers. IDEA and every IEP also states law for Least Restrictive Environment. A child cannot be taken from the general education setting into a special education setting (group or individual) unless the nature and severity of the disability warrants. This is the law. This is what all special education teachers must follow.

Your comments are so over the top ridiculous. I cannot believe there are parents who actually have these expectations of the school system. Or even think that there are professionals to staff this! Or who would do it!

Here is what you sound like: Why doesn't everyone with a cold get a stay in the hospital overnight? They should just hire more nurses. Just find the nurses! Its not my problem if there aren't enough nurses. Everybody should get their own room too- no sharing. And Nobody's insurances rates should go up. The hospitals just need to manage their funds better. Don't let them try to tell you you don't have a life threatening illness. They are wrong. You knw better than the doctors because is is your body, and the doctors don't know anything. They probably aren't even real doctors and don't have their official training in X program. it is your RIGHT to stay in the hospital overnight if you have a cold. You better get an attorney when you talk to your doctor because the doctor will just try to tell you that a cold can be treated at home with over the counter medicine and rest. They do not have your best interest at heart. They do not know what they are talking about. Every doctor I have ever met at every school in FCPS is terrible! You wouldn't believe the things that the doctors have told me! Let's get a class action lawsuit with OCR and make them reimburse us for how terrible they treat us! We have COLDS!! That is how ridiculous you sound.

This exactly. So many posts in this thread talk about how students who are "almost average" need special education - and legally, they don't. This doesn't mean "almost average" just for academics - but a student whose biggest need is being just below average for any skill (academic, attention, social-emotional) does not meet IDEA criteria.

[Anonymous]

I agree. A student with dyslexia who is performing "almost average" does not have a disability that prevents them from accessing the gen ed curriculum. Full stop. This doesn't mean parents shouldn't supplement with tutors etc., but they do not need special ed. I've said this earlier in the thread and I'll say it again: special ed is not there to help students with disabilities who are doing okay to reach their fullest potential. It's there to help students with significant impairments access the gen ed curriculum and/or achieve alternate curriculum goals. Do I agree that this is right? Doesn't matter - it's the law. If you don't like this then advocate to change IDEA (it's time for a revision, anyway). But don't attach the schools and teachers who are following current law.

[Anonymous]

Ok so a student with dyslexia that has average scores in some areas but other areas is years below, for example reading level as measured at the school is a lexile level 4-5 grades below their current grade level. Are they worthy of instruction according to your expertise views? Or do we just graduate kids from high school with an elementary school reading level? Is a parent asking for too much with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree. A student with dyslexia who is performing "almost average" does not have a disability that prevents them from accessing the gen ed curriculum. Full stop. This doesn't mean parents shouldn't supplement with tutors etc., but they do not need special ed. I've said this earlier in the thread and I'll say it again: special ed is not there to help students with disabilities who are doing okay to reach their fullest potential. It's there to help students with significant impairments access the gen ed curriculum and/or achieve alternate curriculum goals. Do I agree that this is right? Doesn't matter - it's the law. If you don't like this then advocate to change IDEA (it's time for a revision, anyway). But don't attach the schools and teachers who are following current law.

They absolutely need an iep and school support. They have a significant disability. Most parents cannot afford special tutoring. Please find a different profession. All kids struggling deserve everything we as adults can do to help them be successful. What kid of person would deny a child reading support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so a student with dyslexia that has average scores in some areas but other areas is years below, for example reading level as measured at the school is a lexile level 4-5 grades below their current grade level. Are they worthy of instruction according to your expertise views? Or do we just graduate kids from high school with an elementary school reading level? Is a parent asking for too much with that?

If they struggle with reading it only gets worse in high school. This is one reason why kids act out. They cannot function well in any classes without strong reading skills. So, they act out to distract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jaw dropped. IDEA clearly states that it is against the law to label a child with an educational disability unless they have a significant impairment or need. That means below grade level or SIGNIFICANTLY behind peers. IDEA and every IEP also states law for Least Restrictive Environment. A child cannot be taken from the general education setting into a special education setting (group or individual) unless the nature and severity of the disability warrants. This is the law. This is what all special education teachers must follow.

Your comments are so over the top ridiculous. I cannot believe there are parents who actually have these expectations of the school system. Or even think that there are professionals to staff this! Or who would do it!

Here is what you sound like: Why doesn't everyone with a cold get a stay in the hospital overnight? They should just hire more nurses. Just find the nurses! Its not my problem if there aren't enough nurses. Everybody should get their own room too- no sharing. And Nobody's insurances rates should go up. The hospitals just need to manage their funds better. Don't let them try to tell you you don't have a life threatening illness. They are wrong. You knw better than the doctors because is is your body, and the doctors don't know anything. They probably aren't even real doctors and don't have their official training in X program. it is your RIGHT to stay in the hospital overnight if you have a cold. You better get an attorney when you talk to your doctor because the doctor will just try to tell you that a cold can be treated at home with over the counter medicine and rest. They do not have your best interest at heart. They do not know what they are talking about. Every doctor I have ever met at every school in FCPS is terrible! You wouldn't believe the things that the doctors have told me! Let's get a class action lawsuit with OCR and make them reimburse us for how terrible they treat us! We have COLDS!! That is how ridiculous you sound.

This exactly. So many posts in this thread talk about how students who are "almost average" need special education - and legally, they don't. This doesn't mean "almost average" just for academics - but a student whose biggest need is being just below average for any skill (academic, attention, social-emotional) does not meet IDEA criteria.

My kid was above average in academics but could not string a full sentence together. So, you think they don’t deserve support? Then who does?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jaw dropped. IDEA clearly states that it is against the law to label a child with an educational disability unless they have a significant impairment or need. That means below grade level or SIGNIFICANTLY behind peers. IDEA and every IEP also states law for Least Restrictive Environment. A child cannot be taken from the general education setting into a special education setting (group or individual) unless the nature and severity of the disability warrants. This is the law. This is what all special education teachers must follow.

Your comments are so over the top ridiculous. I cannot believe there are parents who actually have these expectations of the school system. Or even think that there are professionals to staff this! Or who would do it!

Here is what you sound like: Why doesn't everyone with a cold get a stay in the hospital overnight? They should just hire more nurses. Just find the nurses! Its not my problem if there aren't enough nurses. Everybody should get their own room too- no sharing. And Nobody's insurances rates should go up. The hospitals just need to manage their funds better. Don't let them try to tell you you don't have a life threatening illness. They are wrong. You knw better than the doctors because is is your body, and the doctors don't know anything. They probably aren't even real doctors and don't have their official training in X program. it is your RIGHT to stay in the hospital overnight if you have a cold. You better get an attorney when you talk to your doctor because the doctor will just try to tell you that a cold can be treated at home with over the counter medicine and rest. They do not have your best interest at heart. They do not know what they are talking about. Every doctor I have ever met at every school in FCPS is terrible! You wouldn't believe the things that the doctors have told me! Let's get a class action lawsuit with OCR and make them reimburse us for how terrible they treat us! We have COLDS!! That is how ridiculous you sound.

PP, could please cite to IDEA statute or regulation for your proposition that the law requires a child to be below grade level or significantly behind peers?

[Anonymous]

I don't think teachers or parents should be "attacking" each other. Parents are going to advocate for their children, that's just reality. It is a legal process and therefore it is likely to be adversarial at some point.

But the real problem is that we have a health care and education system that is not sufficiently resourced to support children with developmental delays and disabilities. We are fighting with each other for scraps.

In order to give my child her best chance in life I need to pay out of pocket for therapy to a provider that does not take insurance and that Medicaid will not reimburse for. There are no in-network providers who are able to provide evidence-based treatment for her condition. I am lucky that we have access to private insurance with out of network benefits, but it honestly breaks my heart to hear about children that don't get treatment for a severely impairing, treatable condition simply because it is too expensive. From a cold-hearted economic perspective it is an incredible waste of human capital to fail to provide better resources for these children. I know very little about dyslexia but it seems to me that schools should be providing instruction that can help these children meet their full potential. Resources are needed both inside and outside school systems.

At the same time, I admit sometimes I shake my head at parents that are able but unwilling to pay for private services for their children. I am genuinely glad they are getting services from the school system, but I don't think they fully understand that these services are limited in scope and they should invest early in private services for their children to give them the best chance in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jaw dropped. IDEA clearly states that it is against the law to label a child with an educational disability unless they have a significant impairment or need. That means below grade level or SIGNIFICANTLY behind peers. IDEA and every IEP also states law for Least Restrictive Environment. A child cannot be taken from the general education setting into a special education setting (group or individual) unless the nature and severity of the disability warrants. This is the law. This is what all special education teachers must follow.

Your comments are so over the top ridiculous. I cannot believe there are parents who actually have these expectations of the school system. Or even think that there are professionals to staff this! Or who would do it!

Here is what you sound like: Why doesn't everyone with a cold get a stay in the hospital overnight? They should just hire more nurses. Just find the nurses! Its not my problem if there aren't enough nurses. Everybody should get their own room too- no sharing. And Nobody's insurances rates should go up. The hospitals just need to manage their funds better. Don't let them try to tell you you don't have a life threatening illness. They are wrong. You knw better than the doctors because is is your body, and the doctors don't know anything. They probably aren't even real doctors and don't have their official training in X program. it is your RIGHT to stay in the hospital overnight if you have a cold. You better get an attorney when you talk to your doctor because the doctor will just try to tell you that a cold can be treated at home with over the counter medicine and rest. They do not have your best interest at heart. They do not know what they are talking about. Every doctor I have ever met at every school in FCPS is terrible! You wouldn't believe the things that the doctors have told me! Let's get a class action lawsuit with OCR and make them reimburse us for how terrible they treat us! We have COLDS!! That is how ridiculous you sound.

PP, could please cite to IDEA statute or regulation for your proposition that the law requires a child to be below grade level or significantly behind peers?

Search the Basis for Committee Decision (eligibility criteria) for any educational disability. Search the Least Restrictive Environment Statements on any IEP. The guidelines from IDEA are there.

[Anonymous]

More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jaw dropped. IDEA clearly states that it is against the law to label a child with an educational disability unless they have a significant impairment or need. That means below grade level or SIGNIFICANTLY behind peers. IDEA and every IEP also states law for Least Restrictive Environment. A child cannot be taken from the general education setting into a special education setting (group or individual) unless the nature and severity of the disability warrants. This is the law. This is what all special education teachers must follow.

Your comments are so over the top ridiculous. I cannot believe there are parents who actually have these expectations of the school system. Or even think that there are professionals to staff this! Or who would do it!

Here is what you sound like: Why doesn't everyone with a cold get a stay in the hospital overnight? They should just hire more nurses. Just find the nurses! Its not my problem if there aren't enough nurses. Everybody should get their own room too- no sharing. And Nobody's insurances rates should go up. The hospitals just need to manage their funds better. Don't let them try to tell you you don't have a life threatening illness. They are wrong. You knw better than the doctors because is is your body, and the doctors don't know anything. They probably aren't even real doctors and don't have their official training in X program. it is your RIGHT to stay in the hospital overnight if you have a cold. You better get an attorney when you talk to your doctor because the doctor will just try to tell you that a cold can be treated at home with over the counter medicine and rest. They do not have your best interest at heart. They do not know what they are talking about. Every doctor I have ever met at every school in FCPS is terrible! You wouldn't believe the things that the doctors have told me! Let's get a class action lawsuit with OCR and make them reimburse us for how terrible they treat us! We have COLDS!! That is how ridiculous you sound.

This exactly. So many posts in this thread talk about how students who are "almost average" need special education - and legally, they don't. This doesn't mean "almost average" just for academics - but a student whose biggest need is being just below average for any skill (academic, attention, social-emotional) does not meet IDEA criteria.

My kid was above average in academics but could not string a full sentence together. So, you think they don’t deserve support? Then who does?

Did you read my post? I said a "student whose biggest need is being just below average for any skill (academic, attention, social-emotional)." If your child cannot string a full sentence together, it sounds like he is well below average for communication skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. A student with dyslexia who is performing "almost average" does not have a disability that prevents them from accessing the gen ed curriculum. Full stop. This doesn't mean parents shouldn't supplement with tutors etc., but they do not need special ed. I've said this earlier in the thread and I'll say it again: special ed is not there to help students with disabilities who are doing okay to reach their fullest potential. It's there to help students with significant impairments access the gen ed curriculum and/or achieve alternate curriculum goals. Do I agree that this is right? Doesn't matter - it's the law. If you don't like this then advocate to change IDEA (it's time for a revision, anyway). But don't attach the schools and teachers who are following current law.

They absolutely need an iep and school support. They have a significant disability. Most parents cannot afford special tutoring. Please find a different profession. All kids struggling deserve everything we as adults can do to help them be successful. What kid of person would deny a child reading support.

Actually, if their dyslexia is "almost average," they by definition do not have a "significant disability." They have a mild disability. That is a good thing, actually. I'm sure the parent with the kid with profound dyslexia would trade their IEP for being "almost average." Most (if not all) elementary schools offer reading intervention to students who are "almost average" that is not part of special education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so a student with dyslexia that has average scores in some areas but other areas is years below, for example reading level as measured at the school is a lexile level 4-5 grades below their current grade level. Are they worthy of instruction according to your expertise views? Or do we just graduate kids from high school with an elementary school reading level? Is a parent asking for too much with that?

Yes! If they are 4-5 grades below level on certain reading skills - they are not who I am referring to as "almost average." Almost average means.... almost average. Not years below.

[Anonymous]

As I'm reading through these posts I'm wondering if much of the debate on this thread is from a misunderstanding. Parents who insist their child has a significant disability, but also is "almost average" (in the words others are using). Maybe these parents are somehow in denial of their children's needs at the same time they are advocating for them. Because no - if your child is years below grade level, cannot communicate verbally at the level expected, etc., they are not "almost average" and are not who this thread is about. It seems that parents on this thread are taking every post from school professionals and assuming its about their child, when it might not fit.