Barnard is Barnard, not Columbia!!!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was a Columbia undergrad and took 1 class at Barnard because it fit into my schedule better. I was in a study group with some of my classmates from Columbia, five in total in a class of 80. I found the class to be inferior to the ones I had taken at Columbia. After the mid-term exam, the professor spent a lot of time explaining to the class what a thesis statement was and why they needed to be clear in our writing. At Columbia, no one had ever explained that in any of my classes, this would have been considered a pre-requisite to college work. And when the professor described the distribution of the curve in grading, he said there were 6 As given in the class. I got an A, and the rest of my study group said they did too. Unless my study-group mates were lying, we were at the top of that class without much effort (easy A).

One class. That's hardly a comprehensive cross-section of what is on offer there, is it?

Sure-but compare the stats of an admitted Barnard student to that of an admitted Columbia student. It’s a lot lower. Not to say that there aren’t smart people at Barnard but like the “one class” referred to above on average the Columbia student will be stronger than the Barnard student

More Columbia self-reported numbers. Hmmmm.

Did the Columbia math professor accuse Columbia of misstating/inflating the stats of admitted students? I didn’t see anything in the news about that so unless you have evidence, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I am sure an intrepid reporter is looking into it

So you’re just making stuff up in the meantime?

Seems like skepticism is justified.

If you’re determined to make things up you can. But at good colleges, they teach you to look at evidence.

You are right. I will go check the evidence in Columbia's common data set online.

Average SAT scores 2019-2020

But if you’re determined to believe that Columbia’s higher SAT scores are made up, then sure the schools are equivalent-send your daughter go Barnard and I hope she thrives there
Columbia Reading and Writing 720-770, Math 740-800
Barnard Reading and Writing 680-748, Math 670-770
2019–20

Does that include Columbia University's School of General Studies? Just curious.

Does Harvard include Harvard Extension? Just curious.

Bad faith comparison.

Why? Columbia U General Studies and Harvard Extension are both targeted to older non-traditional students who have been in the workforce. Both are cash cows for the university with different admissions standards than Columbia College and Harvard College

[Anonymous]

Only point 6 is really interesting but this para

9. Barnard is very strong with regards to the humanities and social sciences, but it's STEM departments are seriously lacking (and I say this as a STEM student). Barnard’s STEM departments have less course offerings, less professors, smaller budgets, etc. As a physics major, barnard’s physics department only has introductory physics classes, and all the higher level courses needed for my degree are only offered at Columbia. Up until recently Barnard didn’t even have its own computer science department, and Barnard CS majors still take the vast majority of their classes at Columbia.

It is "fewer" not "less"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a Barnard student:

1. Barnard students only get Barnard emails accounts and Columbia email aliases. The Columbia alias acts only as a forwarding address to forward to your Barnard email. Barnard students don’t actually have Columbia emails you can log into and send emails from. We used to, and Columbia students literally rallied to have them taken away from us (wtf). This means that when I send an email to a professor of a Columbia class I’m taking, my email address is marked as foreign because it’s from outside the Columbia domain. Professors get the same message when they email me. It’s a small thing but it’s alienating. Also, because we aren’t in the Columbia email domain if you type a Columbia student’s name in the “to” part of the email it doesn’t autocomplete their email address.

2. An extension of the previous point, Barnard students have Barnard google accounts, not Columbia google accounts. What this means is that when a Columbia google account makes for instance a google doc and shares it to everyone within the organization, Barnard students can’t access it. We have to click on the link and request access to the document, and then the owner of the document has to go in their email, see the request, and grant it. I’ve had professors share google docs with the class that I don’t have access to, it is extremely alienating. Same thing happens when classmates share notes, petitions, etc, I have to request access. I hate it.

3. Housing is another issue. When a Columbia student visits another Columbia student’s dorm, all they have to do is swipe their ID at the main desk and then they can go in. This is the same for when a Barnard student visits another Barnard dorm. But when a Barnard student wants to visit a friend with a Columbia dorm, they have to be signed in by the Columbia student as a guest. The same thing applies for when a Columbia student is visiting a Barnard dorm. Again, this feels very alienating because we are being treated different from the other Columbia students. Once I had a Professor host office hours in the lounge of a Columbia dorm, which meant that I couldn’t go to the office hours without finding someone to sign me into the building! Also, in student group chats I’ll regularly see people talking about movie nights in the Columbia dorms that I can’t easily go to without having to awkwardly ask someone to sign me in as a guest.

4. Meal plans are another thing. Columbia and Barnard meal plans are different. Columbia students can use meal swipes at Barnard dining halls and Barnard students can use their meal swipes at Columbia dining halls. In other words, meal swipes are universal. However, dining points are NOT. And here’s my gripe with this. Columbia main campus has 6 cafes around campus (that only take Columbia dining points). Barnard only has 2 cafes (which only take Barnard points). If a Columbia student and a Barnard student each have the same amount of dining points, but the Columbia student has 6 places to spend them and Barnard students only have 2, that doesn’t really feel fair/equal. If I’m hanging out with CC/SEAS friends and we all go to a Columbia cafe to eat, they can all use their student ID to pay with points, and I have to take out cash or a credit card. Not to mention that Columbia’s cafes are much higher quality and have much more options than Barnard’s. Barnard’s cafes are tiny little coffee shops with some pastries. Columbia’s cafes have bubble tea, soft serve ice cream, make your own sub sandwich, etc. Additionally, Columbia meal plans come with these things called flex points which Barnard meal plans don’t have. These flex points can be spent at local grocery stores and hardware shops and the like, it seems very convenient because I already shop at those stores at lot, but I can’t use my student ID to pay like a Columbia student can. Overall it feels like Barnard students get the short end of the stick with regards to dining, when we pay the same price for our Barnard meal plans.

5. Work opportunities. Columbia has a website where Columbia alumni can post job opportunities for other Columbia students to browse. Barnard has a similar website where Barnard alumnae post job opportunities for Barnard students to browse. Barnard students cannot access the Columbia website, and Columbia students cannot access the Barnard website. Since Columbia’s alumni network is so much larger than Barnard’s, it follows that the Columbia website is just going to have a lot more opportunities listed. What this means is that if a Barnard student wants access to those job opportunities, you have to ask a Columbia friend to log into the website and let you browse it on their account. It just feels alienating, like we don’t get access to the same resources that Columbia students do.

6. STEM classes. Here’s the bottom line. The general student body views Columbia STEM classes as being more rigorous and therefore of a higher quality than Barnard STEM classes. A Barnard biology major is allowed to take the Columbia biology sequence instead of the Barnard biology sequence and have it still count towards their degree requirements. BUT a Columbia biology major CANNOT take the Barnard biology sequence instead of the Columbia biology sequence, it will not fulfill their Columbia biology degree requirements. This incongruity has an implication: that the Barnard classes are easier or of a lower quality; that while Barnard students can choose to substitute the “easier” Barnard classes with the harder Columbia classes, a Columbia student can’t take an “easier” Barnard class in lieu of the harder Columbia class. This degree requirement incongruity implies a certain inferiority to Barnard. Now whether or not the STEM classes at Barnard are actually worse is debatable, but the Columbia administration definitely views them that way regardless.

7. Student health insurance plans are different for Barnard and Columbia students. Columbia’s student health insurance is better than Barnard’s in my opinion. Since Columbia has so much more money, they can provide insurance plans better than what Barnard is able to afford.

8. Columbia has a volunteer ambulance squad run by students that responds to medical emergencies on campus for no cost. Since the squad is volunteer based, no students get paid for their service on it. HOWEVER, Columbia students on the squad with financial aid packages have their “student contribution” amount reduced because as a volunteer they will have less time to work. This results in their grant amount being increased. The same is not true for Barnard students, since Barnard doesn’t have the budget to do that. Plenty of Barnard students are still on the squad, but don’t get increased financial aid because of it.

9. Barnard is very strong with regards to the humanities and social sciences, but it's STEM departments are seriously lacking (and I say this as a STEM student). Barnard’s STEM departments have less course offerings, less professors, smaller budgets, etc. As a physics major, barnard’s physics department only has introductory physics classes, and all the higher level courses needed for my degree are only offered at Columbia. Up until recently Barnard didn’t even have its own computer science department, and Barnard CS majors still take the vast majority of their classes at Columbia.

Thank you for taking the time to post.
It sounds like Barnard is offering a small SLAC experience with the added advantage of taking courses at Columbia and being in NYC.
I’m sure Barnard has several advantages as well that you did not have the time to list - more cohesive and supportive student body, smaller classes, easier to get to know your professors, easier to get into clubs, etc. Overall, not a bad deal.

[Anonymous]

WOW Harvard one seems little lesser degree but more sneaky

It says it gives you a BA in Liberal Arts degree, then says
you can pursue a field of study (similar to a major) and/or up to two minors

English, Biology, Business administration and management, Literature, Computer science, Economics, Religion, Environmental studies, Government, mathematics, History, International relations, Psychology

Do they have seperate classes? How many of these students?

For Columbia its 30% of the undergrad, and says that GS studetns take many of the same classes as the regular students.

WTF is wrong with these so called elite schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a Columbia undergrad and took 1 class at Barnard because it fit into my schedule better. I was in a study group with some of my classmates from Columbia, five in total in a class of 80. I found the class to be inferior to the ones I had taken at Columbia. After the mid-term exam, the professor spent a lot of time explaining to the class what a thesis statement was and why they needed to be clear in our writing. At Columbia, no one had ever explained that in any of my classes, this would have been considered a pre-requisite to college work. And when the professor described the distribution of the curve in grading, he said there were 6 As given in the class. I got an A, and the rest of my study group said they did too. Unless my study-group mates were lying, we were at the top of that class without much effort (easy A).

One class. That's hardly a comprehensive cross-section of what is on offer there, is it?

Sure-but compare the stats of an admitted Barnard student to that of an admitted Columbia student. It’s a lot lower. Not to say that there aren’t smart people at Barnard but like the “one class” referred to above on average the Columbia student will be stronger than the Barnard student

More Columbia self-reported numbers. Hmmmm.

Did the Columbia math professor accuse Columbia of misstating/inflating the stats of admitted students? I didn’t see anything in the news about that so unless you have evidence, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I am sure an intrepid reporter is looking into it

So you’re just making stuff up in the meantime?

Seems like skepticism is justified.

If you’re determined to make things up you can. But at good colleges, they teach you to look at evidence.

You are right. I will go check the evidence in Columbia's common data set online.

Average SAT scores 2019-2020

But if you’re determined to believe that Columbia’s higher SAT scores are made up, then sure the schools are equivalent-send your daughter go Barnard and I hope she thrives there
Columbia Reading and Writing 720-770, Math 740-800
Barnard Reading and Writing 680-748, Math 670-770 a 750 and 770
2019–20

As a longtime SAT tutor of over 20 years (and mom to a recent Columbia grad), I can tell you the difference between a 748 (or 750 rounded) on the verbal section is 1 question per section. The difference between 770 and 800 in math is 2-3 questions across 2 sections. This difference is statistically insignificant, according to the SAT’s own acknowledged margin of error. Plus, the difference could be attributable to some other factor; for example, we know that women score lower on the SAT than men despite having higher grades in college. This indicates that the SAT is somehow biased against women since it doesn’t accurately measure what it purports to measure - which students will be successful in college. (https://msmagazine.com/2018/02/15/highest-performing-women-still-scoring-lower-men-sat/) Since Barnard admits all women, because of this biased gender gap in the SAT, one would expect Barnard SAT scores to be lower than Columbia, which admits both men and women.

If you think the difference between average scores on the SAT between Barnard and Columbia is an accurate predictor of a difference in intellectual rigor between the two, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WOW Harvard one seems little lesser degree but more sneaky

It says it gives you a BA in Liberal Arts degree, then says
you can pursue a field of study (similar to a major) and/or up to two minors

English, Biology, Business administration and management, Literature, Computer science, Economics, Religion, Environmental studies, Government, mathematics, History, International relations, Psychology

Do they have seperate classes? How many of these students?

For Columbia its 30% of the undergrad, and says that GS studetns take many of the same classes as the regular students.

WTF is wrong with these so called elite schools

Caltech offers bootcamps. They hawk their cash cow as a certificate or a degree from "Caltech".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW Harvard one seems little lesser degree but more sneaky

It says it gives you a BA in Liberal Arts degree, then says
you can pursue a field of study (similar to a major) and/or up to two minors

English, Biology, Business administration and management, Literature, Computer science, Economics, Religion, Environmental studies, Government, mathematics, History, International relations, Psychology

Do they have seperate classes? How many of these students?

For Columbia its 30% of the undergrad, and says that GS studetns take many of the same classes as the regular students.

WTF is wrong with these so called elite schools

Caltech offers bootcamps. They hawk their cash cow as a certificate or a degree from "Caltech".

Bootcamps and certificates are a different animal, so understandable, but BA degree in CS Econ Bio English Math Histoy Psychology, etc.
WTF

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW Harvard one seems little lesser degree but more sneaky

It says it gives you a BA in Liberal Arts degree, then says
you can pursue a field of study (similar to a major) and/or up to two minors

English, Biology, Business administration and management, Literature, Computer science, Economics, Religion, Environmental studies, Government, mathematics, History, International relations, Psychology

Do they have seperate classes? How many of these students?

For Columbia its 30% of the undergrad, and says that GS studetns take many of the same classes as the regular students.

WTF is wrong with these so called elite schools

Caltech offers bootcamps. They hawk their cash cow as a certificate or a degree from "Caltech".

Bootcamps and certificates are a different animal, so understandable, but BA degree in CS Econ Bio English Math Histoy Psychology, etc.
WTF

https://youtu.be/WNV-znbRPa0


Harvard sells extension as Harvard Univ. At least those who attend believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a Columbia undergrad and took 1 class at Barnard because it fit into my schedule better. I was in a study group with some of my classmates from Columbia, five in total in a class of 80. I found the class to be inferior to the ones I had taken at Columbia. After the mid-term exam, the professor spent a lot of time explaining to the class what a thesis statement was and why they needed to be clear in our writing. At Columbia, no one had ever explained that in any of my classes, this would have been considered a pre-requisite to college work. And when the professor described the distribution of the curve in grading, he said there were 6 As given in the class. I got an A, and the rest of my study group said they did too. Unless my study-group mates were lying, we were at the top of that class without much effort (easy A).

One class. That's hardly a comprehensive cross-section of what is on offer there, is it?

Sure-but compare the stats of an admitted Barnard student to that of an admitted Columbia student. It’s a lot lower. Not to say that there aren’t smart people at Barnard but like the “one class” referred to above on average the Columbia student will be stronger than the Barnard student

More Columbia self-reported numbers. Hmmmm.

The SAT is not biased against women. It is simply that men are encouraged from a young age to be bolder than women. Sadly. The world is biased against women but the SAT is just an example of where that plays out.

Did the Columbia math professor accuse Columbia of misstating/inflating the stats of admitted students? I didn’t see anything in the news about that so unless you have evidence, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I am sure an intrepid reporter is looking into it

So you’re just making stuff up in the meantime?

Seems like skepticism is justified.

If you’re determined to make things up you can. But at good colleges, they teach you to look at evidence.

You are right. I will go check the evidence in Columbia's common data set online.

Average SAT scores 2019-2020

But if you’re determined to believe that Columbia’s higher SAT scores are made up, then sure the schools are equivalent-send your daughter go Barnard and I hope she thrives there
Columbia Reading and Writing 720-770, Math 740-800
Barnard Reading and Writing 680-748, Math 670-770 a 750 and 770
2019–20

As a longtime SAT tutor of over 20 years (and mom to a recent Columbia grad), I can tell you the difference between a 748 (or 750 rounded) on the verbal section is 1 question per section. The difference between 770 and 800 in math is 2-3 questions across 2 sections. This difference is statistically insignificant, according to the SAT’s own acknowledged margin of error. Plus, the difference could be attributable to some other factor; for example, we know that women score lower on the SAT than men despite having higher grades in college. This indicates that the SAT is somehow biased against women since it doesn’t accurately measure what it purports to measure - which students will be successful in college. (https://msmagazine.com/2018/02/15/highest-performing-women-still-scoring-lower-men-sat/) Since Barnard admits all women, because of this biased gender gap in the SAT, one would expect Barnard SAT scores to be lower than Columbia, which admits both men and women.

If you think the difference between average scores on the SAT between Barnard and Columbia is an accurate predictor of a difference in intellectual rigor between the two, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WOW Harvard one seems little lesser degree but more sneaky

It says it gives you a BA in Liberal Arts degree, then says
you can pursue a field of study (similar to a major) and/or up to two minors

English, Biology, Business administration and management, Literature, Computer science, Economics, Religion, Environmental studies, Government, mathematics, History, International relations, Psychology

Do they have seperate classes? How many of these students?

For Columbia its 30% of the undergrad, and says that GS studetns take many of the same classes as the regular students.

WTF is wrong with these so called elite schools

Good luck with that comparison.

Harvard Extension gives graduates a BA in extension studies from Harvard Extension School. That’s specifically meant to keep HES grads from posing as College grads.

Columbia, OTOH, gives Barnard and CGS graduates a BA from Columbia University, same as Columbia College grads get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW Harvard one seems little lesser degree but more sneaky

It says it gives you a BA in Liberal Arts degree, then says
you can pursue a field of study (similar to a major) and/or up to two minors

English, Biology, Business administration and management, Literature, Computer science, Economics, Religion, Environmental studies, Government, mathematics, History, International relations, Psychology

Do they have seperate classes? How many of these students?

For Columbia its 30% of the undergrad, and says that GS studetns take many of the same classes as the regular students.

WTF is wrong with these so called elite schools

Good luck with that comparison.

Harvard Extension gives graduates a BA in extension studies from Harvard Extension School. That’s specifically meant to keep HES grads from posing as College grads.

Columbia, OTOH, gives Barnard and CGS graduates a BA from Columbia University, same as Columbia College grads get.

So don’t go to Columbia or don’t apply if you don’t want to. What is the point of bringing this up again and again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW Harvard one seems little lesser degree but more sneaky

It says it gives you a BA in Liberal Arts degree, then says
you can pursue a field of study (similar to a major) and/or up to two minors

English, Biology, Business administration and management, Literature, Computer science, Economics, Religion, Environmental studies, Government, mathematics, History, International relations, Psychology

Do they have seperate classes? How many of these students?

For Columbia its 30% of the undergrad, and says that GS studetns take many of the same classes as the regular students.

WTF is wrong with these so called elite schools

Good luck with that comparison.


Harvard Extension gives graduates a BA in extension studies from Harvard Extension School. That’s specifically meant to keep HES grads from posing as College grads.

Columbia, OTOH, gives Barnard and CGS graduates a BA from Columbia University, same as Columbia College grads get.

On the resume:

Harvard Extension -> Harvard Extension School, Harvard University
Columbia GS -> Columbia General Studies, Columbia University
Barnard -> Barnard College, Affiliate of Columbia University

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW Harvard one seems little lesser degree but more sneaky

It says it gives you a BA in Liberal Arts degree, then says
you can pursue a field of study (similar to a major) and/or up to two minors

English, Biology, Business administration and management, Literature, Computer science, Economics, Religion, Environmental studies, Government, mathematics, History, International relations, Psychology

Do they have seperate classes? How many of these students?

For Columbia its 30% of the undergrad, and says that GS studetns take many of the same classes as the regular students.

WTF is wrong with these so called elite schools

Good luck with that comparison.

Harvard Extension gives graduates a BA in extension studies from Harvard Extension School. That’s specifically meant to keep HES grads from posing as College grads.

Columbia, OTOH, gives Barnard and CGS graduates a BA from Columbia University, same as Columbia College grads get.

Columbia GS is clearly identified as such in their diploma. Their FA is extremely poor as it was originally designed for fully-funded veterans after WW2.

[Anonymous]

Harvard extension explicitly states you can’t say you graduated from Harvard university on your resume. It must say extension school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW Harvard one seems little lesser degree but more sneaky

It says it gives you a BA in Liberal Arts degree, then says
you can pursue a field of study (similar to a major) and/or up to two minors

English, Biology, Business administration and management, Literature, Computer science, Economics, Religion, Environmental studies, Government, mathematics, History, International relations, Psychology

Do they have seperate classes? How many of these students?

For Columbia its 30% of the undergrad, and says that GS studetns take many of the same classes as the regular students.

WTF is wrong with these so called elite schools

Good luck with that comparison.

Harvard Extension gives graduates a BA in extension studies from Harvard Extension School. That’s specifically meant to keep HES grads from posing as College grads.

Columbia, OTOH, gives Barnard and CGS graduates a BA from Columbia University, same as Columbia College grads get.

So don’t go to Columbia or don’t apply if you don’t want to. What is the point of bringing this up again and again?

PP, you keep trying to compare Columbia to Harvard and Columbia's SGS with Harvard Extension School. People are telling you the comparison doesn't hold water.