DA vs ECNL vs everything else

[Anonymous]

Can someone explain the showcases-we are new to DA and this is for u13 (Spirit). We have the presentation but would love parent feedback. Do both parents go and does anyone send child alone if you have work commitments. Also how is missed school handled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I say 10,000, I mean what you are actually paying out the door.

If you drop 5,000 on dues, fees, etc. you better be ready to drop another 5,000 on airfare, travel, lodging, food, etc throughout the year. (These are just estimates give or take a grand or two)

As they get older, they can fly and lodge without you which will help lower the cost...a tad.

If your child plays ECNL or DA from U14-18, expect to pay at least 50 to 60,000.

High level soccer is not cost effective unless you get a full or partial scholarship. Better off investing the money.

And lets not forget about career ending injuries. (Knock on wood)

Point being, don't get involved in these leagues unless its your kids dream and or goal to play at the next level. its not worth it.

- DA Parent

The costs creep that high for top travel teams as well. I personally would not think its a waste of time or money if my daughter/son played at the highest level and didnt play in college.

I would.

Its a difference of opinion. I believe that my money pays for more than soccer. I get that part. It is part of my child's story. However, its not a free handout. The bank is not open. My kids work rate better match my financial commitment or else they can pick something that motivates them more. Which is fine by me.

Just like college. The bank is not open. The grades better be there or else they can pay for themselves. Which is fine by me as well. Heck, I encourage it.

Well of course. If im putting a high dollar amount into them playing on these top teams, I want to see them giving it their full effort. And they are. They look forward to practices, they look forward to the games and the tournaments and the camps. Its not all about being on the field but about the full on experience- and when they are at a higher skill level, there would be frustration playing at lower level teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is as close as my records get me to a one-year cost breakdown between kid A, on a non-DA/ECNL, high-level NCSL team with tournament play and also plays high school, and kid B on Spirit DA. Didn’t count gas or meals or cleats.

Kid A was approx 3600
Fees = 2300. same uniform as last year but add $400 every other year for kit update
Hotels & airfare = 1300

Kid B was approx 7400. For what it’s worth, my daughter turned down an ECNL offer and chose DA, but if the DA were a further drive, she would have gone to ECNL. From my research the costs are similar.
Fees = 5000, includes basic uniform. extra pieces extra. Spirit has said its fees will be 3000 v. 5000 this year, but I’m sure that means there will be additional add-ones for winter training and such.
Hotels and airfare and team-assessed costs for bus and other team-sponsored travel costs = 2700. Includes San Diego showcase in June.

I hope this is more helpful than the vitriol found on the last few pages. All any of us want for our kids is a good situation for them that is also affordable and convenient for our families. My 5 cents is that if the costs are not easily affordable and the schedule is detrimental to family time or stressful, then stick with your local option. Kid B is getting significantly better training and coaching and development for that additional money. SIGNIFICANTLY better. However, it’s nice to only pay the premium with one of our two soccer players. The other very good player in the family does not have the same ambitions, but is being pursued by both DI and DIII colleges, none that are top 40, and deletes all the emails because has no interest in playing in college other than club or pickup.

Costs

The costs for the 2018/19 Academy year are as follows:

Commitment / GAP Fee – $500
Due at the time of offer acceptance in order to hold the player’s roster spot. Includes – U.S. Soccer registration fees and spring/summer training prior to start of official DA training in August. This training includes at least two sessions where the players will get to watch pro training, eat lunch with the players, then train themselves at the Maryland SoccerPlex. Players that join after summer training programs, but before August 1 will still be responsible to pay this fee. Players joining after August 1, if any such rosters spots exist, will pay $250.
Club Dues – $3000
This will can be paid in-full, in 2 payments, or on an 8-month payment plan (8-month plan will include a $200 finance charge). Payments can be made at any time, but must begin no later than July 15. The payment plan can start as early as June 1, but no later than August 1. The Club Dues covers all official DA seasonal expenses for training and games as well as equipment, trainers, video, coaches, and administration.
Winter Fee – Not to Exceed $750*
As the fall competitive season progresses, the club’s technical staff will determine what level of winter programming is needed to prepare the teams for the 2nd half of the DA season on March 1. This could include futsal, strength & conditioning, outdoor training, or all the above. *The exact invoice amount will be determined and communicated no later than November 1, 2018, but will not be more than $750. Payment plans will also be offered.
Player Uniforms and Gear – $350
New for this season, the players will wear the same NIKE uniforms as our NWSL professional team, as well as a full set of training gear, pants, pull-over, training tops and shorts, socks, a rain jacket, and a backpack. This invoice will be issued on June 1, or as players sign up following June 1. Players will receive their practice gear before the first summer session, but the will not receive their uniforms until this bill is paid in full.
Travel Costs – TBD
Players will be invoiced well in advance for club-organized travel events that involve bus, air, hotels, and/or group meals. This will include costs incurred for coaching staff to attend these same events averaged across all attending players. If we do any non-DA events that require an entry fee, those will also be included in the travel invoice for that event. Invoices must be satisfied prior to departure for an event. Any difference between the invoiced amount, and the actual costs of the trip will be applied to the next invoice. At the end of the season, any credit balance in this “Travel Fund” can either be carried over to the following season or refunded. If a player does not use team arranged air, that must be communicated in advance. However, all players who participate in an event will be responsible for bus, hotel, meal, and coaches’ travel as those costs cannot be avoided on a per-player basis even if that player does not use the bus, stay in a team hotel, or eat with the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the showcases-we are new to DA and this is for u13 (Spirit). We have the presentation but would love parent feedback. Do both parents go and does anyone send child alone if you have work commitments. Also how is missed school handled?

Same as any "showcase"- its up to you whether parents travel with them. Missed school- up to you whether you want to be honest with the school or not to get excused/unexcused absences
What are you initial thoughts on Cabral?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the showcases-we are new to DA and this is for u13 (Spirit). We have the presentation but would love parent feedback. Do both parents go and does anyone send child alone if you have work commitments. Also how is missed school handled?

For the FL showcase and NY games not many parents attended. The teams all traveled together on plane/bus and roomed together. A few parents go, but you barely see your DD because they are kept busy with team activities. All players are expected to bring homework along and they have mandatory study hall each day at the hotel. A lot more parents seem to be attending San Diego and making a family vacation out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you look at how the two leagues are managed and their motivations, it should be very clear which one cares if your kid kicks a ball outside of the college game one day. The resources and rules in the DA are almost totally focused on that exact thing.

The super short answer to your recruiting question is there will never be less recruiting opportunity in the DA than ECNL. And the cool part is all schools, every pro team, and the entire youth national team network will be willing to look at kids in the DA, but some schools, few pro teams, and almost no youth national team scouts will seriously look at kids in ECNL in the very near future.

Geez, you were doing well until the last two paragraphs where you fell into the GDA kool-aid well. I get GDA, I think it's a great program with a few major flaws. ECNL is far from perfect as well. But the thing I really hate about it is the blind nitwittery that people exhibit when they join a DA program. They simply stop being objective.

Is your responce not also kool aid and one sided? What specifically do you disagree with? How many actual US Soccer technical staff members and scouts or D1 coaches have you spent 100s of hours around discussing what they value, what type of players they are seeking, and the general view of what’s broken in the US and what needs to change? Any time around the professional game up close? Men or women? Any coaching licenses? Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

-OP

Above are your last two paragraphs that I referenced in my earlier post. You say "If you look at how the two leagues are managed and their motivations, it should be very clear which one cares if your kid kicks a ball outside of the college game one day. The resources and rules in the DA are almost totally focused on that exact thing."

You were not specific on what aspects of GDA make it clear that it is aimed at NT or professional levels, so I can only infer that you mean things like the substitution rules which happen to align better with FIFA rules. You appear to assume that just because GDA's sub rules are more FIFA like, that it prepares players for high level play without regard for the debate. That particular rule is counterproductive because it prevents clubs from developing depth on their bench. Similarly, many other GDA policies and rules, do not prepare players better for NT or professional duty.

Your last paragraph... I assure you that national team scouts will leave no stone unturned to find the next NT players wherever they may be. If they are in GDA, they will find them. If they are in ECNL, they will find them. If they are in EDP, they will find them. If they are playing in high school even, they will find them. College scouts, pro scouts, NT scouts will all go wherever the talent is.

You could very likely argue these points (and many others likely), but arguing them specifically was not my point. My point was that many GDA supporters fall into the "GDA kool-aid well" and once they do, they stop thinking about the merit of other alternatives. And what's worse, they seem to want to denigrate the alternatives. That.... is what is wrong with USSF and the DA.... it's the arrogance that prevents them from making it truly great.



My main point on DA being more focused on players opportunities beyond college is related to the day to day focus of the full time staff of the league. Do you realize how much money USSF is spending on this and how many full time people do nothing but focus on the GDA (and BDA)? Do you realize how many scouts are paid by USSF to keep an eye on the games (and they even come to trainings)? Do you realize most National Training Centers are almost all DA (and will continue to lean in that direction)? Do you realize most NWSL clubs were given GDAs with almost no actual youth programs already in place, and that those clubs have professional team staff involved with their DA and top players actually get to train regularly with the professional teams? These professionals at USSF and the NWSL clubs are focused on identifying and then developing players that they believe have a chance to play professionally and internationally. ECNL staff is who again? A couple admins and then their club directors all coaching 3-5 teams themselves and running around the country trying to figure out how to keep the league relevant... And they are ALL MEN, many of whom never played pro or internationally, but rather have risen to their positions on their youth coaching success winning State Cups in the 90s. US Club Soccer invest resources, but their focused on the same thing, keeping the league relevant for their members. They float ID programs, and certainly top players will get opportunities. But to my first point, GDA is all about the goal of finding the 1% of the 1% of the 1% so the USA keeps winning World Cups. ECNL is just a big strong league that was formed and continues to operate because regional USYS leagues of yesterday were totally the wild west. You can argue over the qualifications of this person or that, but USSF is invested in the GDA with a vision well beyond college. In fact, they'd love nothing more than seeing 10 Mallory Pugh's per year skipping college altogether and going pro. If they're doing that well, the other 99% in the league get to come along for the ride and will be better prepared if they get opportunities through more traditional routes. To your point about playing time. That's a youth soccer business argument, not one about actually preparing players. Back to the 1% rule, GDA is not trying to be all things to all. It's trying to ID and prepare the absolute best players to be ready when they get a chance to play for the national teams. The realities of the business model make them change the sub rules this season, but if it were up to USSF it would be 90 minutes and 3 subs no re-entry even at U15. It is how the entire world plays, and kids and coaches in the US literally have no idea how to manage 90 minute games.

About the recruiting. I never said truly special players wouldn't be found. But you better believe as soon as they are, they'll be pushed to a GDA club. The goal is to ID and THEN develop. No top 12 year old will be ID'd as a potential U15 youth nt call up and then told by USSF "yeah, keep playing NCSL and high school for your club with only 1 good team and where you're the best player on that team." College coaches will also push players more to play in the right environment once they commit so they come in ready to play from day 1.

Hope this helps. Not saying don't do ECNL or NCSL. Just saying if your DD dreams and has talent that could potentially put her in the 1% one day, then other than her long term career will be better served in an organization with her long term future in their mission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the showcases-we are new to DA and this is for u13 (Spirit). We have the presentation but would love parent feedback. Do both parents go and does anyone send child alone if you have work commitments. Also how is missed school handled?

There are no U13 DA showcase brackets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Drum roll please.

IT'S NOT JUST THE TRAINING. IT'S THE LEVEL OF COMPETETION.

I still don't understand why folks believe that ECNL or GDA are any different than other competitive leagues. I have followed Pipeline and other MD/VA clubs and they consistantly beat their ECNL counterparts on the girls side. So yes, competition is a big part of it but even in ECNL/DA, the teams below the top five are below that level of the top non-ECNL/DA team and these teams are in competitive leagues themselves where the top five teams are strong and thr remaining are less competitive. I agree that by their very nature, ECNL/DA teams attract some of the best players but that does not mean that these teams are the best or get the best training or play against the best teams. If you are in the top brackets at the tip showcases, you are guaranteed the top competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drum roll please.

IT'S NOT JUST THE TRAINING. IT'S THE LEVEL OF COMPETETION.

I still don't understand why folks believe that ECNL or GDA are any different than other competitive leagues. I have followed Pipeline and other MD/VA clubs and they consistantly beat their ECNL counterparts on the girls side. So yes, competition is a big part of it but even in ECNL/DA, the teams below the top five are below that level of the top non-ECNL/DA team and these teams are in competitive leagues themselves where the top five teams are strong and thr remaining are less competitive. I agree that by their very nature, ECNL/DA teams attract some of the best players but that does not mean that these teams are the best or get the best training or play against the best teams. If you are in the top brackets at the tip showcases, you are guaranteed the top competition.

How hard is it to understand that results do not matter at any ages below U17? Period. Plenty of winning teams that cannot play a lick of soccer exist. That approach doesn't make better soccer players in the long run. And unless you care about collecting trophies, why does it matter how many games you win at 12-14 years old. You want competitive games and training environment as part of development but judging development on just who wins what games? That is what is wrong with youth soccer in this area and around our country.

Sure there are exceptions, and maybe Pipeline is one of them, but if they are winning games by playing kickball - here's talking to you Arlington - then those players will develop much more slowly than those learning the game properly. Arguing otherwise, is ignorant of reality. If you are a top player with high level aspirations, why screw around and hope to find one of the exceptions in EDP or NCSL or CCL or whatever, go to the environment that will foster the development to reach that potential. At this moment in time, around DC Metro, the best development environment exists more at GDA at 04 and younger and a close call between GDA and ECNL at older ages than that. The GDA trains 10 months of the year and 4 times a week. Does Pipeline do that? If they do, kudos to them. Richmond United does that and the development of their players shows.

Obviously, the coach/trainer and the construct of the team matter as well but over time, if not already, the better coaches and the better players will generally end up at the GDA unless or until a better option comes along. ECNL as almost every club structures it, with 3 trainings a week and a 5 to 6 month season just isn't enough anymore adding to that the watering-down of the league in this area with too many teams. I can't imagine anyone saying with a straight face that GDA is second tier to ECNL or any other league - not today and not in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drum roll please.

IT'S NOT JUST THE TRAINING. IT'S THE LEVEL OF COMPETETION.

I still don't understand why folks believe that ECNL or GDA are any different than other competitive leagues. I have followed Pipeline and other MD/VA clubs and they consistantly beat their ECNL counterparts on the girls side. So yes, competition is a big part of it but even in ECNL/DA, the teams below the top five are below that level of the top non-ECNL/DA team and these teams are in competitive leagues themselves where the top five teams are strong and thr remaining are less competitive. I agree that by their very nature, ECNL/DA teams attract some of the best players but that does not mean that these teams are the best or get the best training or play against the best teams. If you are in the top brackets at the tip showcases, you are guaranteed the top competition.

I guess what I don't understand is if Pipeline is doing it for your kid then why do you care about DA or ECNL? Just do what works for your kid. Don't look to a forum for your validation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drum roll please.

IT'S NOT JUST THE TRAINING. IT'S THE LEVEL OF COMPETETION.

I still don't understand why folks believe that ECNL or GDA are any different than other competitive leagues. I have followed Pipeline and other MD/VA clubs and they consistantly beat their ECNL counterparts on the girls side. So yes, competition is a big part of it but even in ECNL/DA, the teams below the top five are below that level of the top non-ECNL/DA team and these teams are in competitive leagues themselves where the top five teams are strong and thr remaining are less competitive. I agree that by their very nature, ECNL/DA teams attract some of the best players but that does not mean that these teams are the best or get the best training or play against the best teams. If you are in the top brackets at the tip showcases, you are guaranteed the top competition.

I guess what I don't understand is if Pipeline is doing it for your kid then why do you care about DA or ECNL? Just do what works for your kid. Don't look to a forum for your validation.

I agree with you. Player development (or not) happens at the club level. For the most part, the same coaches that were at GDA clubs prior to last year are the same guys and very little has changed. It's not like they magically became training savants. If you are happy that you are getting quality training at pipeline and development is occurring, there is no reason to panic because you are not partaking the flavor of the month.

[Anonymous]

Just don't get it.

If Pipeline beats Bethesda at u9-13 it does not mean Pipeline beats Bethesda ECNL in the future.

ECNL and DA consolidates talent from all over. They become entirely different teams.

It's a "has-been" way of thinking.

[Anonymous]

PP here. We are on the same page. My only point is that talent, solid training and competition is not exclusive to ECNL/GDA. There are clubs like Pipeline around the nation that produce well-trained teams that compete in the top divisions of the most competitive leagues and showcases. Granted, if you are a top player at Pipeline and you can managed the costs and logistics associated with GDA, then go for it. If not, you are not missing much that you can't fox on your own. If you are a star, UNC and the USWNT will find you whether you are at WS or Pipeline or some club in North Dakota.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. We are on the same page. My only point is that talent, solid training and competition is not exclusive to ECNL/GDA. There are clubs like Pipeline around the nation that produce well-trained teams that compete in the top divisions of the most competitive leagues and showcases. Granted, if you are a top player at Pipeline and you can managed the costs and logistics associated with GDA, then go for it. If not, you are not missing much that you can't fox on your own. If you are a star, UNC and the USWNT will find you whether you are at WS or Pipeline or some club in North Dakota.

So again, why are you here seeking validation? IF your kid is a Star you have the luxury of doing as you please. Most kids in DA, ECNL and yes even Pipeline are not Stars but they are good players with ambitions of playing in college. The platform that ECNL and DA provides is overall better college coach exposure than just Jeff Cup, Disney alone.

But don't make a future decision for a kid based on the absolute best results of a Pipeline team that might be several years older than your kids age group. Sometimes lightning strikes but it doesn't mean it will strike twice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. We are on the same page. My only point is that talent, solid training and competition is not exclusive to ECNL/GDA. There are clubs like Pipeline around the nation that produce well-trained teams that compete in the top divisions of the most competitive leagues and showcases. Granted, if you are a top player at Pipeline and you can managed the costs and logistics associated with GDA, then go for it. If not, you are not missing much that you can't fox on your own. If you are a star, UNC and the USWNT will find you whether you are at WS or Pipeline or some club in North Dakota.

So again, why are you here seeking validation? IF your kid is a Star you have the luxury of doing as you please. Most kids in DA, ECNL and yes even Pipeline are not Stars but they are good players with ambitions of playing in college. The platform that ECNL and DA provides is overall better college coach exposure than just Jeff Cup, Disney alone.

But don't make a future decision for a kid based on the absolute best results of a Pipeline team that might be several years older than your kids age group. Sometimes lightning strikes but it doesn't mean it will strike twice.

For me it is a little more complex than that. If you kid is a star at age 12 then I think the decision making process is different than if the kid is a star at 16. At 12, you want to be in the best development environment regardless of what league. At 16, other factors come into play such as exposure. i don't agree that at 16 you can be playing in CCL or EDP and expect to be noticed unless you get very lucky.