DA vs ECNL vs everything else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does it really matter which league (DA vs ECNL) the player is in when it comes to recruiting? Players have to make the effort to contact coaches, tell them schedules, send videos, etc. If this is the case why does it matter which league you are in? Both are top leagues so the coach evaluating is looking at how the player plays, makes decisions, deals with pressure and opportunity, etc.

Coaches are not knocking on your door unless you make the National team right?

You're right, for the most part it starts with the player. But scout attendance can be a factor...the process is much easier if the scout has budget for, and is planning to attend where your showcase is being held. Right now it does not matter GDA or ECNL in this regard, the question is in 3-4 years will this league still be drawing scouts? My belief is that it still won't matter for most players but at some point if a league starts to water down, it may become more difficult for depth players to be seen by the schools they are interested in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does it really matter which league (DA vs ECNL) the player is in when it comes to recruiting? Players have to make the effort to contact coaches, tell them schedules, send videos, etc. If this is the case why does it matter which league you are in? Both are top leagues so the coach evaluating is looking at how the player plays, makes decisions, deals with pressure and opportunity, etc.

Coaches are not knocking on your door unless you make the National team right?

The ability to play at a certain speed is a big factor. Playing DA or ECNL is a proving ground. If shows that a player is ready to move to the next level. There is a historical track record there. College coaches know the DA or ECNL coaches which helps facilitate recruitment.

A lot of people don't understand the importance of SPEED OF PLAY. Everything at the higher level league is bigger, faster, stronger.

And college only gets tougher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it really matter which league (DA vs ECNL) the player is in when it comes to recruiting? Players have to make the effort to contact coaches, tell them schedules, send videos, etc. If this is the case why does it matter which league you are in? Both are top leagues so the coach evaluating is looking at how the player plays, makes decisions, deals with pressure and opportunity, etc.

Coaches are not knocking on your door unless you make the National team right?

You're right, for the most part it starts with the player. But scout attendance can be a factor...the process is much easier if the scout has budget for, and is planning to attend where your showcase is being held. Right now it does not matter GDA or ECNL in this regard, the question is in 3-4 years will this league still be drawing scouts? My belief is that it still won't matter for most players but at some point if a league starts to water down, it may become more difficult for depth players to be seen by the schools they are interested in.

One of the things people always leave out on the "what's a better league for recruiting" question is what it is the scouts are actually looking for. The tangibles are the same. Is the kid athletic and adequately skilled. And also does the kid really want to play for my team and attend my school as a top 5 choice overall. Does the kid show leadership and maturity in the recruiting process. Are they proactive. Does mom and dad stay out of it (they SHOULD). With all those boxes checked having nothing to do with the league. But THEN your kid is competing against other kids who all qualify for all the above too, but there are only so many spots. Or the coach has specific positive or negative experience with the club coaches pushing their players or coaches developing players. In all of those intangibles, the league can mean everything. Competition level. Training habits. Quality of coaching. Sports science education. Soccer IQ development. Positional experience. Experience training and playing with better players. Tactical setup experience. Number of meaningful games. Injury history and risk of future injuries (re: playing high school, playing too many games, not in a club that pays attention to concussions and sports science).

A lot of college coaches actually value a majority of all the above that doesn't align with what most experts agree make good players at the professional level. So there's one of the big rubs. You can play for a powerhouse club that plays a powerhouse direct physical style and get recruiting to a D1 school and play 4 years as a starter... And never get drafted or actually be that good of a player overall at 22 than you were at 16. Clubs and colleges that use words like "crops" when talking about players are the ones that treat player like cattle. "It" is not about the player, but only about their own reputation and career with zero care in the world if the player ever kicks another ball after they graduate college.

If you look at how the two leagues are managed and their motivations, it should be very clear which one cares if your kid kicks a ball outside of the college game one day. The resources and rules in the DA are almost totally focused on that exact thing.

The super short answer to your recruiting question is there will never be less recruiting opportunity in the DA than ECNL. And the cool part is all schools, every pro team, and the entire youth national team network will be willing to look at kids in the DA, but some schools, few pro teams, and almost no youth national team scouts will seriously look at kids in ECNL in the very near future.

[Anonymous]

College coaches sure look at a lot of crap just to stop developing your player and make their team play long ball to get results

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College coaches sure look at a lot of crap just to stop developing your player and make their team play long ball to get results

and one more for good measure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I say 10,000, I mean what you are actually paying out the door.

If you drop 5,000 on dues, fees, etc. you better be ready to drop another 5,000 on airfare, travel, lodging, food, etc throughout the year. (These are just estimates give or take a grand or two)

As they get older, they can fly and lodge without you which will help lower the cost...a tad.

If your child plays ECNL or DA from U14-18, expect to pay at least 50 to 60,000.

High level soccer is not cost effective unless you get a full or partial scholarship. Better off investing the money.

And lets not forget about career ending injuries. (Knock on wood)

Point being, don't get involved in these leagues unless its your kids dream and or goal to play at the next level. its not worth it.

- DA Parent

The costs creep that high for top travel teams as well. I personally would not think its a waste of time or money if my daughter/son played at the highest level and didnt play in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I say 10,000, I mean what you are actually paying out the door.

If you drop 5,000 on dues, fees, etc. you better be ready to drop another 5,000 on airfare, travel, lodging, food, etc throughout the year. (These are just estimates give or take a grand or two)

As they get older, they can fly and lodge without you which will help lower the cost...a tad.

If your child plays ECNL or DA from U14-18, expect to pay at least 50 to 60,000.

High level soccer is not cost effective unless you get a full or partial scholarship. Better off investing the money.

And lets not forget about career ending injuries. (Knock on wood)

Point being, don't get involved in these leagues unless its your kids dream and or goal to play at the next level. its not worth it.

- DA Parent

The costs creep that high for top travel teams as well. I personally would not think its a waste of time or money if my daughter/son played at the highest level and didnt play in college.

I would.

Its a difference of opinion. I believe that my money pays for more than soccer. I get that part. It is part of my child's story. However, its not a free handout. The bank is not open. My kids work rate better match my financial commitment or else they can pick something that motivates them more. Which is fine by me.

Just like college. The bank is not open. The grades better be there or else they can pay for themselves. Which is fine by me as well. Heck, I encourage it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it really matter which league (DA vs ECNL) the player is in when it comes to recruiting? Players have to make the effort to contact coaches, tell them schedules, send videos, etc. If this is the case why does it matter which league you are in? Both are top leagues so the coach evaluating is looking at how the player plays, makes decisions, deals with pressure and opportunity, etc.

Coaches are not knocking on your door unless you make the National team right?

You're right, for the most part it starts with the player. But scout attendance can be a factor...the process is much easier if the scout has budget for, and is planning to attend where your showcase is being held. Right now it does not matter GDA or ECNL in this regard, the question is in 3-4 years will this league still be drawing scouts? My belief is that it still won't matter for most players but at some point if a league starts to water down, it may become more difficult for depth players to be seen by the schools they are interested in.

One of the things people always leave out on the "what's a better league for recruiting" question is what it is the scouts are actually looking for. The tangibles are the same. Is the kid athletic and adequately skilled. And also does the kid really want to play for my team and attend my school as a top 5 choice overall. Does the kid show leadership and maturity in the recruiting process. Are they proactive. Does mom and dad stay out of it (they SHOULD). With all those boxes checked having nothing to do with the league. But THEN your kid is competing against other kids who all qualify for all the above too, but there are only so many spots. Or the coach has specific positive or negative experience with the club coaches pushing their players or coaches developing players. In all of those intangibles, the league can mean everything. Competition level. Training habits. Quality of coaching. Sports science education. Soccer IQ development. Positional experience. Experience training and playing with better players. Tactical setup experience. Number of meaningful games. Injury history and risk of future injuries (re: playing high school, playing too many games, not in a club that pays attention to concussions and sports science).

A lot of college coaches actually value a majority of all the above that doesn't align with what most experts agree make good players at the professional level. So there's one of the big rubs. You can play for a powerhouse club that plays a powerhouse direct physical style and get recruiting to a D1 school and play 4 years as a starter... And never get drafted or actually be that good of a player overall at 22 than you were at 16. Clubs and colleges that use words like "crops" when talking about players are the ones that treat player like cattle. "It" is not about the player, but only about their own reputation and career with zero care in the world if the player ever kicks another ball after they graduate college.

If you look at how the two leagues are managed and their motivations, it should be very clear which one cares if your kid kicks a ball outside of the college game one day. The resources and rules in the DA are almost totally focused on that exact thing.

The super short answer to your recruiting question is there will never be less recruiting opportunity in the DA than ECNL. And the cool part is all schools, every pro team, and the entire youth national team network will be willing to look at kids in the DA, but some schools, few pro teams, and almost no youth national team scouts will seriously look at kids in ECNL in the very near future.

Geez, you were doing well until the last two paragraphs where you fell into the GDA kool-aid well. I get GDA, I think it's a great program with a few major flaws. ECNL is far from perfect as well. But the thing I really hate about it is the blind nitwittery that people exhibit when they join a DA program. They simply stop being objective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it really matter which league (DA vs ECNL) the player is in when it comes to recruiting? Players have to make the effort to contact coaches, tell them schedules, send videos, etc. If this is the case why does it matter which league you are in? Both are top leagues so the coach evaluating is looking at how the player plays, makes decisions, deals with pressure and opportunity, etc.

Coaches are not knocking on your door unless you make the National team right?

You're right, for the most part it starts with the player. But scout attendance can be a factor...the process is much easier if the scout has budget for, and is planning to attend where your showcase is being held. Right now it does not matter GDA or ECNL in this regard, the question is in 3-4 years will this league still be drawing scouts? My belief is that it still won't matter for most players but at some point if a league starts to water down, it may become more difficult for depth players to be seen by the schools they are interested in.

One of the things people always leave out on the "what's a better league for recruiting" question is what it is the scouts are actually looking for. The tangibles are the same. Is the kid athletic and adequately skilled. And also does the kid really want to play for my team and attend my school as a top 5 choice overall. Does the kid show leadership and maturity in the recruiting process. Are they proactive. Does mom and dad stay out of it (they SHOULD). With all those boxes checked having nothing to do with the league. But THEN your kid is competing against other kids who all qualify for all the above too, but there are only so many spots. Or the coach has specific positive or negative experience with the club coaches pushing their players or coaches developing players. In all of those intangibles, the league can mean everything. Competition level. Training habits. Quality of coaching. Sports science education. Soccer IQ development. Positional experience. Experience training and playing with better players. Tactical setup experience. Number of meaningful games. Injury history and risk of future injuries (re: playing high school, playing too many games, not in a club that pays attention to concussions and sports science).

A lot of college coaches actually value a majority of all the above that doesn't align with what most experts agree make good players at the professional level. So there's one of the big rubs. You can play for a powerhouse club that plays a powerhouse direct physical style and get recruiting to a D1 school and play 4 years as a starter... And never get drafted or actually be that good of a player overall at 22 than you were at 16. Clubs and colleges that use words like "crops" when talking about players are the ones that treat player like cattle. "It" is not about the player, but only about their own reputation and career with zero care in the world if the player ever kicks another ball after they graduate college.

If you look at how the two leagues are managed and their motivations, it should be very clear which one cares if your kid kicks a ball outside of the college game one day. The resources and rules in the DA are almost totally focused on that exact thing.

The super short answer to your recruiting question is there will never be less recruiting opportunity in the DA than ECNL. And the cool part is all schools, every pro team, and the entire youth national team network will be willing to look at kids in the DA, but some schools, few pro teams, and almost no youth national team scouts will seriously look at kids in ECNL in the very near future.

Geez, you were doing well until the last two paragraphs where you fell into the GDA kool-aid well. I get GDA, I think it's a great program with a few major flaws. ECNL is far from perfect as well. But the thing I really hate about it is the blind nitwittery that people exhibit when they join a DA program. They simply stop being objective.

No the OP but can you expand upon wht the Kool-Aid is and the nitwitterey in the post was? AND can you also explain why it is both Kool-Aid and nitwitterey?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it really matter which league (DA vs ECNL) the player is in when it comes to recruiting? Players have to make the effort to contact coaches, tell them schedules, send videos, etc. If this is the case why does it matter which league you are in? Both are top leagues so the coach evaluating is looking at how the player plays, makes decisions, deals with pressure and opportunity, etc.

Coaches are not knocking on your door unless you make the National team right?

You're right, for the most part it starts with the player. But scout attendance can be a factor...the process is much easier if the scout has budget for, and is planning to attend where your showcase is being held. Right now it does not matter GDA or ECNL in this regard, the question is in 3-4 years will this league still be drawing scouts? My belief is that it still won't matter for most players but at some point if a league starts to water down, it may become more difficult for depth players to be seen by the schools they are interested in.

One of the things people always leave out on the "what's a better league for recruiting" question is what it is the scouts are actually looking for. The tangibles are the same. Is the kid athletic and adequately skilled. And also does the kid really want to play for my team and attend my school as a top 5 choice overall. Does the kid show leadership and maturity in the recruiting process. Are they proactive. Does mom and dad stay out of it (they SHOULD). With all those boxes checked having nothing to do with the league. But THEN your kid is competing against other kids who all qualify for all the above too, but there are only so many spots. Or the coach has specific positive or negative experience with the club coaches pushing their players or coaches developing players. In all of those intangibles, the league can mean everything. Competition level. Training habits. Quality of coaching. Sports science education. Soccer IQ development. Positional experience. Experience training and playing with better players. Tactical setup experience. Number of meaningful games. Injury history and risk of future injuries (re: playing high school, playing too many games, not in a club that pays attention to concussions and sports science).

A lot of college coaches actually value a majority of all the above that doesn't align with what most experts agree make good players at the professional level. So there's one of the big rubs. You can play for a powerhouse club that plays a powerhouse direct physical style and get recruiting to a D1 school and play 4 years as a starter... And never get drafted or actually be that good of a player overall at 22 than you were at 16. Clubs and colleges that use words like "crops" when talking about players are the ones that treat player like cattle. "It" is not about the player, but only about their own reputation and career with zero care in the world if the player ever kicks another ball after they graduate college.

If you look at how the two leagues are managed and their motivations, it should be very clear which one cares if your kid kicks a ball outside of the college game one day. The resources and rules in the DA are almost totally focused on that exact thing.

The super short answer to your recruiting question is there will never be less recruiting opportunity in the DA than ECNL. And the cool part is all schools, every pro team, and the entire youth national team network will be willing to look at kids in the DA, but some schools, few pro teams, and almost no youth national team scouts will seriously look at kids in ECNL in the very near future.

Geez, you were doing well until the last two paragraphs where you fell into the GDA kool-aid well. I get GDA, I think it's a great program with a few major flaws. ECNL is far from perfect as well. But the thing I really hate about it is the blind nitwittery that people exhibit when they join a DA program. They simply stop being objective.

Is your responce not also kool aid and one sided? What specifically do you disagree with? How many actual US Soccer technical staff members and scouts or D1 coaches have you spent 100s of hours around discussing what they value, what type of players they are seeking, and the general view of what’s broken in the US and what needs to change? Any time around the professional game up close? Men or women? Any coaching licenses? Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

-OP

[Anonymous]

This is as close as my records get me to a one-year cost breakdown between kid A, on a non-DA/ECNL, high-level NCSL team with tournament play and also plays high school, and kid B on Spirit DA. Didn’t count gas or meals or cleats.

Kid A was approx 3600
Fees = 2300. same uniform as last year but add $400 every other year for kit update
Hotels & airfare = 1300

Kid B was approx 7400. For what it’s worth, my daughter turned down an ECNL offer and chose DA, but if the DA were a further drive, she would have gone to ECNL. From my research the costs are similar.
Fees = 5000, includes basic uniform. extra pieces extra. Spirit has said its fees will be 3000 v. 5000 this year, but I’m sure that means there will be additional add-ones for winter training and such.
Hotels and airfare and team-assessed costs for bus and other team-sponsored travel costs = 2700. Includes San Diego showcase in June.

I hope this is more helpful than the vitriol found on the last few pages. All any of us want for our kids is a good situation for them that is also affordable and convenient for our families. My 5 cents is that if the costs are not easily affordable and the schedule is detrimental to family time or stressful, then stick with your local option. Kid B is getting significantly better training and coaching and development for that additional money. SIGNIFICANTLY better. However, it’s nice to only pay the premium with one of our two soccer players. The other very good player in the family does not have the same ambitions, but is being pursued by both DI and DIII colleges, none that are top 40, and deletes all the emails because has no interest in playing in college other than club or pickup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you look at how the two leagues are managed and their motivations, it should be very clear which one cares if your kid kicks a ball outside of the college game one day. The resources and rules in the DA are almost totally focused on that exact thing.

The super short answer to your recruiting question is there will never be less recruiting opportunity in the DA than ECNL. And the cool part is all schools, every pro team, and the entire youth national team network will be willing to look at kids in the DA, but some schools, few pro teams, and almost no youth national team scouts will seriously look at kids in ECNL in the very near future.

Geez, you were doing well until the last two paragraphs where you fell into the GDA kool-aid well. I get GDA, I think it's a great program with a few major flaws. ECNL is far from perfect as well. But the thing I really hate about it is the blind nitwittery that people exhibit when they join a DA program. They simply stop being objective.

Is your responce not also kool aid and one sided? What specifically do you disagree with? How many actual US Soccer technical staff members and scouts or D1 coaches have you spent 100s of hours around discussing what they value, what type of players they are seeking, and the general view of what’s broken in the US and what needs to change? Any time around the professional game up close? Men or women? Any coaching licenses? Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

-OP

Above are your last two paragraphs that I referenced in my earlier post. You say "If you look at how the two leagues are managed and their motivations, it should be very clear which one cares if your kid kicks a ball outside of the college game one day. The resources and rules in the DA are almost totally focused on that exact thing."

You were not specific on what aspects of GDA make it clear that it is aimed at NT or professional levels, so I can only infer that you mean things like the substitution rules which happen to align better with FIFA rules. You appear to assume that just because GDA's sub rules are more FIFA like, that it prepares players for high level play without regard for the debate. That particular rule is counterproductive because it prevents clubs from developing depth on their bench. Similarly, many other GDA policies and rules, do not prepare players better for NT or professional duty.

Your last paragraph... I assure you that national team scouts will leave no stone unturned to find the next NT players wherever they may be. If they are in GDA, they will find them. If they are in ECNL, they will find them. If they are in EDP, they will find them. If they are playing in high school even, they will find them. College scouts, pro scouts, NT scouts will all go wherever the talent is.

You could very likely argue these points (and many others likely), but arguing them specifically was not my point. My point was that many GDA supporters fall into the "GDA kool-aid well" and once they do, they stop thinking about the merit of other alternatives. And what's worse, they seem to want to denigrate the alternatives. That.... is what is wrong with USSF and the DA.... it's the arrogance that prevents them from making it truly great.

[Anonymous]

The GDA hasn't even been around a year. You already have an assessment of the parents?

Tell me. What's your assessment of ECNL parents?

How about you? Tell us about you.

We would all like to know so we can tamper our arrogance and render onto Ceaser what is Ceasers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is as close as my records get me to a one-year cost breakdown between kid A, on a non-DA/ECNL, high-level NCSL team with tournament play and also plays high school, and kid B on Spirit DA. Didn’t count gas or meals or cleats.

Kid A was approx 3600
Fees = 2300. same uniform as last year but add $400 every other year for kit update
Hotels & airfare = 1300

Kid B was approx 7400. For what it’s worth, my daughter turned down an ECNL offer and chose DA, but if the DA were a further drive, she would have gone to ECNL. From my research the costs are similar.
Fees = 5000, includes basic uniform. extra pieces extra. Spirit has said its fees will be 3000 v. 5000 this year, but I’m sure that means there will be additional add-ones for winter training and such.
Hotels and airfare and team-assessed costs for bus and other team-sponsored travel costs = 2700. Includes San Diego showcase in June.

I hope this is more helpful than the vitriol found on the last few pages. All any of us want for our kids is a good situation for them that is also affordable and convenient for our families. My 5 cents is that if the costs are not easily affordable and the schedule is detrimental to family time or stressful, then stick with your local option. Kid B is getting significantly better training and coaching and development for that additional money. SIGNIFICANTLY better. However, it’s nice to only pay the premium with one of our two soccer players. The other very good player in the family does not have the same ambitions, but is being pursued by both DI and DIII colleges, none that are top 40, and deletes all the emails because has no interest in playing in college other than club or pickup.

I appreciate your insights. I am still not sold that ECNL/GDA provide the best training. There are players coming outside of those programs that are just as good if not better than those in DA/ECNL. Tell me that Pipeline's U13 girls team is not getting great coaching when the MD Spirit TD is their coach.

[Anonymous]

Drum roll please.

IT'S NOT JUST THE TRAINING. IT'S THE LEVEL OF COMPETETION.