Savannah Guthrie’s mom is missing, suspect kidnapping

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stating the obvious, but if the backpack is “key” we’re in trouble.

This. It’s Walmart. Walmarts are everywhere. Without a receipt who knows what day it was purchased. Black Ozark backpacks were probably purchased everyday or every other day for years at the local Walmart.

It’s a tourist town. People hike.

It’s not a great clue to lead to a specific person.

Agree, it’s pretty much worthless. The dude was zipped up. Contained. Everything generic. I suspect he/she even wore a mask under the balaclava to disguise face structure and features. I agree about the aimless nature of the person once there, but they were prepared in dress.

I suspect someone paid them to do this.

The person was acting as if it was aimless but he knew exactly what he was doing and where the cameras where located. He wanted to appear haphazard and unprepared. I believe he was not the only person. He had to have a getaway driver.someone had to handle Nancy and someone else had to drive Who’s that person? What vehicle was the getaway vehicle?

The sheriff is cagey about who dropped Nancy off that night. At first, it was mentioned Annie dropped her off then it was suggested that Tommaso dropped her off. It’s possible the front door wasn’t even locked. Whoever dropped her off left the front door unlocked on purpose for the perp. They just didn’t disable the camera because they weren’t masked or concealed. That was the job of the perp

I never once heard it was Annie who dripped her off. I only heard Tommaso. Did you stop to think that they are avoiding saying his name because people like you are putting him and his family at risk?

His family was already at risk if it’s true that a kidnapper infatuated with Savannah Guthrie was targeting her family members in Arizona.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Well you ended your post saying that criminals always get busted doing the exact thing that you say a criminal would never do. So which is it?

I am not convinced that this was well-planned. I think he was desperate for money and this was a Hail Mary attempt to pay his debts. He might not have even known he was a future kidnapper when he purchased the backpack and other items.

Hello, not all perps get busted, but the ones that do, on true crime shows, are often busted by buying a shovel, an industrial-sized box of zip ties, and plastic tarps, on video. Any criminal with half a brain knows by now not to buy your supplies in a big box store (cameras). But that's okay...

This isn't that difficult. A family member did it. They want their inheritance now, or maybe the initial plan was ransom money, which = serious gravy, had she survived the ordeal. But this is an 84-year-old. So, she probably stroked out in the trunk or had a massive heart attack. If that happened at this point, the body needs to be found sooner rather than later, because the only play is the inheritance. A good clean transfer of money.

People are greedy; many families are weird about money. One person has it, and someone else doesn't. Little chance her money was being willed to Guthrie, or at least that was the perps' thinking, so while she may not have been rolling in dough, she had enough to make a difference to someone. I've seen families ripped apart over much less.

The perpetrator is a very close family member who was annoyed that an 84-year-old woman was soaking up resources and wasn't dropping dead quickly enough for their liking. She was old, very, very old, past her expiration date, so maybe she was getting to be an expensive resource sucking pain in the petard, which made her expendable, so she needed to go now.

Or maybe she ran off with the pool boy and didn't want her kids interfering or ruining her fun. That would be a great ending to the story!

A close family member would have had a more savvy way to get in the house rather than having a staring contest with the Nest camera (that they probably helped install) and then throwing a flower over it.
If it was the inheritance they were after, there are much easier and less risky ways to off someone than dragging them out of their home, hiding the body, and faking a ransom. All while capturing the nation’s attention. They could have snuck in the house and covered her face with a pillow. I don’t think Savannah Guthrie’s 84-year-old mom dying in her sleep would have gotten quite as many headlines. There certainly wouldn’t be a 180 page dcum thread. Maybe they would be able to examine her to see if she was suffocated, but I doubt they would suspect foul play and request that.

A close family member kidnapping her is unlikely because it would be difficult for them to hide their sudden wealth. So this would only be possible if it was a debt that Savannah or her mother would not help with. They probably would have previously asked though, so Savannah would know about the debt and suspect them.

I do hope you are right about the pool boy.

[Anonymous]

The internet sleuths are saying the photos released are not of the same night given the snow moon and other differences in the darkness of the images backgrounds. Apparently the image without the gun, with the darker background would have been 1/11-1/12 when the moon rose later at 2:13am on the 12th and on the night of the kidnapping there was a snow moon that was out at around th time stated 1am -3am and those images illuminate the homes in the background.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Well you ended your post saying that criminals always get busted doing the exact thing that you say a criminal would never do. So which is it?

I am not convinced that this was well-planned. I think he was desperate for money and this was a Hail Mary attempt to pay his debts. He might not have even known he was a future kidnapper when he purchased the backpack and other items.

Hello, not all perps get busted, but the ones that do, on true crime shows, are often busted by buying a shovel, an industrial-sized box of zip ties, and plastic tarps, on video. Any criminal with half a brain knows by now not to buy your supplies in a big box store (cameras). But that's okay...

This isn't that difficult. A family member did it. They want their inheritance now, or maybe the initial plan was ransom money, which = serious gravy, had she survived the ordeal. But this is an 84-year-old. So, she probably stroked out in the trunk or had a massive heart attack. If that happened at this point, the body needs to be found sooner rather than later, because the only play is the inheritance. A good clean transfer of money.

People are greedy; many families are weird about money. One person has it, and someone else doesn't. Little chance her money was being willed to Guthrie, or at least that was the perps' thinking, so while she may not have been rolling in dough, she had enough to make a difference to someone. I've seen families ripped apart over much less.

The perpetrator is a very close family member who was annoyed that an 84-year-old woman was soaking up resources and wasn't dropping dead quickly enough for their liking. She was old, very, very old, past her expiration date, so maybe she was getting to be an expensive resource sucking pain in the petard, which made her expendable, so she needed to go now.

Or maybe she ran off with the pool boy and didn't want her kids interfering or ruining her fun. That would be a great ending to the story!

A close family member would have had a more savvy way to get in the house rather than having a staring contest with the Nest camera (that they probably helped install) and then throwing a flower over it.
If it was the inheritance they were after, there are much easier and less risky ways to off someone than dragging them out of their home, hiding the body, and faking a ransom. All while capturing the nation’s attention. They could have snuck in the house and covered her face with a pillow. I don’t think Savannah Guthrie’s 84-year-old mom dying in her sleep would have gotten quite as many headlines. There certainly wouldn’t be a 180 page dcum thread. Maybe they would be able to examine her to see if she was suffocated, but I doubt they would suspect foul play and request that.

A close family member kidnapping her is unlikely because it would be difficult for them to hide their sudden wealth. So this would only be possible if it was a debt that Savannah or her mother would not help with. They probably would have previously asked though, so Savannah would know about the debt and suspect them.

I do hope you are right about the pool boy.

There’s apparently so few elderly kidnappings that the statistics are not even tracked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Walmart, Home Depot, and all those other places still have you on camera shoplifting.

Yeah but not if this was planned a year ago or even months ago. Footage is often taped over and there’s no proof this person was even local.

Loss prevention departments will retain this footage and track shoplifters. But I doubt it was shoplifted here. You know the saying - don't commit a crime while you're committing a crime.

If the shoplifter looked black or dark and of Latino origin, or just dark, you might be onto something, but no theft loss department is following the movements of a white guy or even a light-complexioned Asian person in the local Walmart. Everyone knows they can rob a store blind and get away with it. Profiling has its limitations. Which is why their first suspect was a Latino man with brown skin?

This lady is white, and she was most likely done in by a family member, another white person... what's up with the FBI? I thought they had the best profilers on staff. It's the obvious person, the kooky relative, not the random brown person who happened to have been in the neighborhood, but this is Trump's FBI, so of course it had to be the brown Latino guy. That would have been a great counter to their bad press, and all the bad feels generated by the ICE toxic crackdown on the hardworking, head-down, Latino Minnesotans and their bunny-hatted toddlers.

Shoplifting while white, 99.9% of the time, you get away with it.

Give me a break. Everyone gets away with shoplifting now. Especially if you are't white. People just walk right out knowing there won't be any resistance from the employees because they don't want a confrontation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Walmart, Home Depot, and all those other places still have you on camera shoplifting.

Yeah but not if this was planned a year ago or even months ago. Footage is often taped over and there’s no proof this person was even local.

Loss prevention departments will retain this footage and track shoplifters. But I doubt it was shoplifted here. You know the saying - don't commit a crime while you're committing a crime.

If the shoplifter looked black or dark and of Latino origin, or just dark, you might be onto something, but no theft loss department is following the movements of a white guy or even a light-complexioned Asian person in the local Walmart. Everyone knows they can rob a store blind and get away with it. Profiling has its limitations. Which is why their first suspect was a Latino man with brown skin?

This lady is white, and she was most likely done in by a family member, another white person... what's up with the FBI? I thought they had the best profilers on staff. It's the obvious person, the kooky relative, not the random brown person who happened to have been in the neighborhood, but this is Trump's FBI, so of course it had to be the brown Latino guy. That would have been a great counter to their bad press, and all the bad feels generated by the ICE toxic crackdown on the hardworking, head-down, Latino Minnesotans and their bunny-hatted toddlers.

Shoplifting while white, 99.9% of the time, you get away with it.

Poor whites definitely get arrested often. You must not live in an area with a lot of poor white families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought this thread would find this tweet interesting - a successful and retired suspect sketcher sketched out what she believes the suspect looks like. I don’t know how to post images of tweets here but the link is below.

Kind of looks like a Latino tom welling (smallville actor) to me.

https://x.com/ginamilan_/status/2022351188117815395?s=46&t=uGDvux_Rehy8V5Lh240zFA

Interesting—thanks for posting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Walmart, Home Depot, and all those other places still have you on camera shoplifting.

Yeah but not if this was planned a year ago or even months ago. Footage is often taped over and there’s no proof this person was even local.

Loss prevention departments will hang on to this footage and track shoplifters. But I doubt it was shoplifted here. You know the saying - don't commit a crime while you're committing a crime.

Quick Google shows 4,600-4,800 Walmarts in the States. It seems impossible to track one black backpack down across all those stores. I mean, eBay and Poshmark both sell the same model. Poshmark has one up right now.

There’s only about 4 Walmarts in the Tucson area that would sell stuff like backpacks I think. I assume they’ve already pulled those records if they are marginally competent. Hopefully Walmart didn’t make them get a subpoena.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Well you ended your post saying that criminals always get busted doing the exact thing that you say a criminal would never do. So which is it?

I am not convinced that this was well-planned. I think he was desperate for money and this was a Hail Mary attempt to pay his debts. He might not have even known he was a future kidnapper when he purchased the backpack and other items.

Hello, not all perps get busted, but the ones that do, on true crime shows, are often busted by buying a shovel, an industrial-sized box of zip ties, and plastic tarps, on video. Any criminal with half a brain knows by now not to buy your supplies in a big box store (cameras). But that's okay...

This isn't that difficult. A family member did it. They want their inheritance now, or maybe the initial plan was ransom money, which = serious gravy, had she survived the ordeal. But this is an 84-year-old. So, she probably stroked out in the trunk or had a massive heart attack. If that happened at this point, the body needs to be found sooner rather than later, because the only play is the inheritance. A good clean transfer of money.

People are greedy; many families are weird about money. One person has it, and someone else doesn't. Little chance her money was being willed to Guthrie, or at least that was the perps' thinking, so while she may not have been rolling in dough, she had enough to make a difference to someone. I've seen families ripped apart over much less.

The perpetrator is a very close family member who was annoyed that an 84-year-old woman was soaking up resources and wasn't dropping dead quickly enough for their liking. She was old, very, very old, past her expiration date, so maybe she was getting to be an expensive resource sucking pain in the petard, which made her expendable, so she needed to go now.

Or maybe she ran off with the pool boy and didn't want her kids interfering or ruining her fun. That would be a great ending to the story!

84 is not that old. Do you know how many people there are in Pima county over 100? A lot. they used to have an annual party. But then the group got too big and the county didn’t want to pay for it anymore. My mom in Tucson has a neighbor that just turned 100 and lives independently with her little dog. She had a big party and the whole neighborhood went.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Walmart, Home Depot, and all those other places still have you on camera shoplifting.

Yeah but not if this was planned a year ago or even months ago. Footage is often taped over and there’s no proof this person was even local.

Loss prevention departments will hang on to this footage and track shoplifters. But I doubt it was shoplifted here. You know the saying - don't commit a crime while you're committing a crime.

Quick Google shows 4,600-4,800 Walmarts in the States. It seems impossible to track one black backpack down across all those stores. I mean, eBay and Poshmark both sell the same model. Poshmark has one up right now.

*Sigh*
Does the guy look like much of a traveler to you? He was clearly perplexed by the sight of a ring doorbell. He does not appear to get out much.

Yes, it is possible that he purchased it in Vermont. Or on poshmark. But it is highly likely that he purchased it in his own town. Or he purchased it online and had it delivered to an address in or near Tucson.

What does looking like much of a traveler mean? The guy could be any man in America. Hikers in the Shenandoah, Bank employees in DC, ransoms in the airport. Nothing about the image we’ve seen says he isn’t a traveler.

To me, he seems cognitively impaired. No one who isn’t would try to cover a camera with some ripped up flowers. I do not think this is a sophisticated well travelled person (unless maybe he was high as a kite which I guess can look similar to a cognitive impairment).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The internet sleuths are saying the photos released are not of the same night given the snow moon and other differences in the darkness of the images backgrounds. Apparently the image without the gun, with the darker background would have been 1/11-1/12 when the moon rose later at 2:13am on the 12th and on the night of the kidnapping there was a snow moon that was out at around th time stated 1am -3am and those images illuminate the homes in the background.

Where can I read this theory elsewhere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Walmart, Home Depot, and all those other places still have you on camera shoplifting.

Yeah but not if this was planned a year ago or even months ago. Footage is often taped over and there’s no proof this person was even local.

Loss prevention departments will hang on to this footage and track shoplifters. But I doubt it was shoplifted here. You know the saying - don't commit a crime while you're committing a crime.

Quick Google shows 4,600-4,800 Walmarts in the States. It seems impossible to track one black backpack down across all those stores. I mean, eBay and Poshmark both sell the same model. Poshmark has one up right now.

*Sigh*
Does the guy look like much of a traveler to you? He was clearly perplexed by the sight of a ring doorbell. He does not appear to get out much.

Yes, it is possible that he purchased it in Vermont. Or on poshmark. But it is highly likely that he purchased it in his own town. Or he purchased it online and had it delivered to an address in or near Tucson.

What does looking like much of a traveler mean? The guy could be any man in America. Hikers in the Shenandoah, Bank employees in DC, ransoms in the airport. Nothing about the image we’ve seen says he isn’t a traveler.

Well he seems utterly clueless in the video. He could barely find his way around a porch, let alone an airport.

Also, the assumption is that he does not have a lot of expendable income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Well you ended your post saying that criminals always get busted doing the exact thing that you say a criminal would never do. So which is it?

I am not convinced that this was well-planned. I think he was desperate for money and this was a Hail Mary attempt to pay his debts. He might not have even known he was a future kidnapper when he purchased the backpack and other items.

Hello, not all perps get busted, but the ones that do, on true crime shows, are often busted by buying a shovel, an industrial-sized box of zip ties, and plastic tarps, on video. Any criminal with half a brain knows by now not to buy your supplies in a big box store (cameras). But that's okay...

This isn't that difficult. A family member did it. They want their inheritance now, or maybe the initial plan was ransom money, which = serious gravy, had she survived the ordeal. But this is an 84-year-old. So, she probably stroked out in the trunk or had a massive heart attack. If that happened at this point, the body needs to be found sooner rather than later, because the only play is the inheritance. A good clean transfer of money.

People are greedy; many families are weird about money. One person has it, and someone else doesn't. Little chance her money was being willed to Guthrie, or at least that was the perps' thinking, so while she may not have been rolling in dough, she had enough to make a difference to someone. I've seen families ripped apart over much less.

The perpetrator is a very close family member who was annoyed that an 84-year-old woman was soaking up resources and wasn't dropping dead quickly enough for their liking. She was old, very, very old, past her expiration date, so maybe she was getting to be an expensive resource sucking pain in the petard, which made her expendable, so she needed to go now.

Or maybe she ran off with the pool boy and didn't want her kids interfering or ruining her fun. That would be a great ending to the story!

84 is not that old. Do you know how many people there are in Pima county over 100? A lot. they used to have an annual party. But then the group got too big and the county didn’t want to pay for it anymore. My mom in Tucson has a neighbor that just turned 100 and lives independently with her little dog. She had a big party and the whole neighborhood went.

That is not typical for 80+ years old women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Well you ended your post saying that criminals always get busted doing the exact thing that you say a criminal would never do. So which is it?

I am not convinced that this was well-planned. I think he was desperate for money and this was a Hail Mary attempt to pay his debts. He might not have even known he was a future kidnapper when he purchased the backpack and other items.

Hello, not all perps get busted, but the ones that do, on true crime shows, are often busted by buying a shovel, an industrial-sized box of zip ties, and plastic tarps, on video. Any criminal with half a brain knows by now not to buy your supplies in a big box store (cameras). But that's okay...

This isn't that difficult. A family member did it. They want their inheritance now, or maybe the initial plan was ransom money, which = serious gravy, had she survived the ordeal. But this is an 84-year-old. So, she probably stroked out in the trunk or had a massive heart attack. If that happened at this point, the body needs to be found sooner rather than later, because the only play is the inheritance. A good clean transfer of money.

People are greedy; many families are weird about money. One person has it, and someone else doesn't. Little chance her money was being willed to Guthrie, or at least that was the perps' thinking, so while she may not have been rolling in dough, she had enough to make a difference to someone. I've seen families ripped apart over much less.

The perpetrator is a very close family member who was annoyed that an 84-year-old woman was soaking up resources and wasn't dropping dead quickly enough for their liking. She was old, very, very old, past her expiration date, so maybe she was getting to be an expensive resource sucking pain in the petard, which made her expendable, so she needed to go now.

Or maybe she ran off with the pool boy and didn't want her kids interfering or ruining her fun. That would be a great ending to the story!

84 is not that old. Do you know how many people there are in Pima county over 100? A lot. they used to have an annual party. But then the group got too big and the county didn’t want to pay for it anymore. My mom in Tucson has a neighbor that just turned 100 and lives independently with her little dog. She had a big party and the whole neighborhood went.

That is not typical for 80+ years old women.

I live in a neighborhood with a lot of seniors over 80 in their own homes. There are also families with young children.
Some of the 80+ year old seniors are working jobs. One guy replaced his roof with his son.

Please don't be ageist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems very bleak at this point. They have hardly any forensic evidence. No clues that we are aware of. All we have is that video. And a random glove far from the crime scene. It’s been 12 days. Everyone makes fun of the kidnapper for looking like an amateur, well, he seems to have done the job and not left a trace. I am so sorry this has happened and my heart goes to the Guthrie family. I will say the FBI, led by Kash Patel, is probably a disaster and bungled it.

I have seen a couple of interviews with experts this morning, and they actually seem hopeful. The backpack is key. They believe the suspect is from Tucson, so he probably purchased it locally. They will look at everyone who purchased it and pull driver’s license info to eliminate everyone who does not fit the height and facial features. This will narrow it down a lot. Sure, there is a chance that he borrowed it, stole it, or purchased second-hand. But it seems less likely. Even if he purchased with cash, they can pull surveillance video. Somebody will recognize him from the video. I am convinced that they are already closing in.

The cops sure seem to be operating from the 1800s. Who doesn’t shop online nowadays? Good god, they’re really hoping Walmart will solve this crime?

How are they sure the backpack is brand new?

Well they aren’t shopping online with cash. So they will have credit card info for purchases made online and shipped to Tucson.

Apparently it is the latest version of the backpack so they know it was purchased fairly recently.

Also, me. I don’t like to buy everything online. I am no Olympic athlete, but I do have the energy to walk into the Wal-Mart down the road. For something like a backpack, I would prefer to check out the size, quality, storage compartments in person.

My money is on the backpack being a dead end.

If I'm going to commit a crime. I'm shoplifting everything I can fit into my overcoat, and a backpack fits that criteria. Heck, I might even be so bold as to rip the tags off the backpack and fill it with the other pilfered items I need, hello horse tranquilizers, zip ties, duct tape.

No way I'm going through the Walmart check out line, who knows how long they hang onto the recording, but no doubt that data is going to a datacenter, where it gets compiled and crushed and tied to a list of every other purchase I've made, along with my image and my purchase details, how I paid, what day I visited, what websites I like to visit, etc. Too much money in data these days to just throw it all away. Those cameras aren't about security; they are about data mining.

Any criminal who watches any true life crime shows the perp always gets busted by the footage from Home Depot cameras where they are recorded buying, some combination of 10 feet of rope, 2 boxes of zip ties, acid, lye, woodchipper, plastic gloves, masks, respirators, industrial garbage bags, a case of plastic tarps, cement, cement mixer, duct tape, and a big old ax and bleach, lots and lots of bleach.

Walmart, Home Depot, and all those other places still have you on camera shoplifting.

Yeah but not if this was planned a year ago or even months ago. Footage is often taped over and there’s no proof this person was even local.

Loss prevention departments will hang on to this footage and track shoplifters. But I doubt it was shoplifted here. You know the saying - don't commit a crime while you're committing a crime.

Quick Google shows 4,600-4,800 Walmarts in the States. It seems impossible to track one black backpack down across all those stores. I mean, eBay and Poshmark both sell the same model. Poshmark has one up right now.

There’s only about 4 Walmarts in the Tucson area that would sell stuff like backpacks I think. I assume they’ve already pulled those records if they are marginally competent. Hopefully Walmart didn’t make them get a subpoena.

A lot of people already have backpacks. They don't need a special new one to pull off a crime purchased right before it happens. It's a needle in a haystack.