McLean to Explore Separating from FC & FCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

Apart from the shooting, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Langley got got a renovation, now other schools in the county are- should McLean jump in line?

It's been pointed out repeatedly that McLean also needs additional permanent capacity, and that other schools that were built after McLean, were not otherwise due for renovations, and are less overcrowded were allocated millions for additions, while t McLean will be a second-hand modular. If responding to immediate needs is "jumping in line," you should have a much bigger issue with the largesse other schools like Justice and West Potomac are receiving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is predictably what happens when "equity" becomes the primary focus of a school system or county government.

The equity advocates are very clear. "Equity" is about taking all steps possible to produce equal outcomes; "equality" is about similar levels of resource allocation and equal opportunities.

People thought "equity" sounded reasonable, so they supported candidates who endorsed One Fairfax and the "equity" agenda. Now they're seeing that officials will deliberately allocate fewer resources to places like McLean because that might elevate equality over equity, whereas spending more on low-income areas and less in higher-income areas is consistent with an "equity" focus.

This was readily accepted when it wasn't so explicitly stated. Folks in McLean (and Vienna, Burke, Fairfax Station, and similar areas) tacitly agreed that some schools would get more funding, have smaller classes, receive additional teacher's aides, etc. It seemed appropriately designed to give an extra boost to higher-needs students.

But now it's all spelled out explicitly, people are expected to accept it as a matter of faith or else, and the short-changing of higher-income areas isn't treated like a necessary evil, but something that's a moral imperative. As it turns out, people still care about their own kids, and they don't like what they are seeing. Whether McLean can pull off separating from FC remains to be seen, but it's another canary in the coal mine that people weren't quite as "all-in" on the equity bandwagon as some of their recent votes may have suggested.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

Apart from the shooting, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

DP. I don't understand it either. "McLean HS is being held back by mean and bloated FCPS!!!" Umm, how?

Come back when your school is the international poster child for under-investment and lousy facilities.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/27/virginia-teachers-strike-amazon-tax-breaks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

Apart from the shooting, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Langley got got a renovation, now other schools in the county are- should McLean jump in line?

FCPS has not dealt with the over crowding at McLean. There was suppose to be a decision a few years ago about boundary change. They keep kicking the can down the road adding more trailers now a modular. Most of the athletic field are gone, there is no other space to put these outdoor learning facilities but they need more to fit the kids…… Or they need to change the boundaries or build a bigger HS. My understanding is even in 2 years with all the additional trailers/modular, there will not be enough space.

[Anonymous]

As an immigrant, I could never understand why there was such a disparity in education quality across the U.S. I couldn't understand why poor black areas had such worse schools compared to more affluent (and usually white) areas. But this thread has been an eye-opener. I understand this much better now. It seems the more affluent folks want their money to benefit only them and their families. They don't see the benefit to society of elevating everyone and giving a good education to all children, regardless of their socioeconomic status. Don't people want the US to succeed long-term? How does keeping poor people less educated benefit a country in the long-run?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

Apart from the shooting, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Langley got got a renovation, now other schools in the county are- should McLean jump in line?

FCPS has not dealt with the over crowding at McLean. There was suppose to be a decision a few years ago about boundary change. They keep kicking the can down the road adding more trailers now a modular. Most of the athletic field are gone, there is no other space to put these outdoor learning facilities but they need more to fit the kids…… Or they need to change the boundaries or build a bigger HS. My understanding is even in 2 years with all the additional trailers/modular, there will not be enough space.

they'll probably get a westpo type expansion because redistricting kids away from McLean to anywhere other than Langley would go over as well politically are districting kids from westpo to MVHS.

[Anonymous]

The whole point is that people in McLean don't want to argue any longer with the FCPS boosters who think Langley and McLean must have it great because of US News ratings based on SOL scores from years ago. They want to pursue the creation of a separate city. FWIW, the folks in the MCA taking the lead on this for now primarily live in the Langley HS area, not the McLean HS area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

Apart from the shooting, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

DP. I don't understand it either. "McLean HS is being held back by mean and bloated FCPS!!!" Umm, how?

Come back when your school is the international poster child for under-investment and lousy facilities.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/27/virginia-teachers-strike-amazon-tax-breaks

...That didn't show being "short-changed".

But it does show the level where McLean and MCA are operating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

Apart from the shooting, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Langley got got a renovation, now other schools in the county are- should McLean jump in line?

FCPS has not dealt with the over crowding at McLean. There was suppose to be a decision a few years ago about boundary change. They keep kicking the can down the road adding more trailers now a modular. Most of the athletic field are gone, there is no other space to put these outdoor learning facilities but they need more to fit the kids…… Or they need to change the boundaries or build a bigger HS. My understanding is even in 2 years with all the additional trailers/modular, there will not be enough space.

The solution is obviously to continue to invest all the money elsewhere, and let this school run down further so that people just avoid it. There are some signs that is already occurring, but it would be premature to declare victory until it's lost hundreds more kids and is completely mediocre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

Apart from the shooting, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

DP. I don't understand it either. "McLean HS is being held back by mean and bloated FCPS!!!" Umm, how?

Come back when your school is the international poster child for under-investment and lousy facilities.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/27/virginia-teachers-strike-amazon-tax-breaks

...That didn't show being "short-changed".

But it does show the level where McLean and MCA are operating.

Do tell. And make sure to post pictures of all the trailers at your school as you're pontificating.

[Anonymous]

Y’all are thinking in partial equilibrium. If more affluent areas pursue this and leave less affluent areas on their own you could wind up with a situation like St Louis (where the city is independent of county), with massive inequality and crime, and that will affect you regardless of city borders. In St Louis many people are trying to re-merge the city and county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

+1

No one wants McLean schools to get more than other schools in FCPS. They want to be treated equally. I’m not sure you understand what goes on. FCPS regularly puts money into schools in poorer areas and then expects McLean schools to do without. For example, fields at poorer schools are regularly funded by FCPS. If McLean needs money for fields, they are required to fundraise for them. The county will not pay for them. That is just one example.

Citizens of mclean just want to be treated equally, not better than. But they are constantly being treated less than all others in the county because they assume the citizens will just fund it themselves.

But then FCPS is perfectly ready to take credit for the high test scores that come out of the underfunded schools. Even though it is the parents and students that actually are responsible for those phenomenal test scores.

Ummm... maybe the teachers helped also. But they don't live in McLean, I guess.

Sorry - I don't disagree that the teachers help. But McLean is not provided with better teachers than the rest of the county. You can't say that the teachers at McLean/Langley are so much better than the teachers at South Lakes can you? So much so that it makes the difference in all the test scores?

It is generally easier to recruit and retain teachers at McLean/Langley than at many other schools because the teachers don't have to work as hard or deal with as many disciplinary issues, but the flip-side is that the area is expensive and teachers may prefer positions closer to where they live.

If McLean City ran its own schools, it likely could pay higher salaries than FCPS or offer smaller class sizes, both advantages to teachers.

You have no way of knowing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

+1

No one wants McLean schools to get more than other schools in FCPS. They want to be treated equally. I’m not sure you understand what goes on. FCPS regularly puts money into schools in poorer areas and then expects McLean schools to do without. For example, fields at poorer schools are regularly funded by FCPS. If McLean needs money for fields, they are required to fundraise for them. The county will not pay for them. That is just one example.

Citizens of mclean just want to be treated equally, not better than. But they are constantly being treated less than all others in the county because they assume the citizens will just fund it themselves.

But then FCPS is perfectly ready to take credit for the high test scores that come out of the underfunded schools. Even though it is the parents and students that actually are responsible for those phenomenal test scores.

Ummm... maybe the teachers helped also. But they don't live in McLean, I guess.

Sorry - I don't disagree that the teachers help. But McLean is not provided with better teachers than the rest of the county. You can't say that the teachers at McLean/Langley are so much better than the teachers at South Lakes can you? So much so that it makes the difference in all the test scores?

It is generally easier to recruit and retain teachers at McLean/Langley than at many other schools because the teachers don't have to work as hard or deal with as many disciplinary issues, but the flip-side is that the area is expensive and teachers may prefer positions closer to where they live.

If McLean City ran its own schools, it likely could pay higher salaries than FCPS or offer smaller class sizes, both advantages to teachers.

You have no way of knowing this.

+1

Plus, would you want to deal with those parents? You could not pay me enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant, I could never understand why there was such a disparity in education quality across the U.S. I couldn't understand why poor black areas had such worse schools compared to more affluent (and usually white) areas. But this thread has been an eye-opener. I understand this much better now. It seems the more affluent folks want their money to benefit only them and their families. They don't see the benefit to society of elevating everyone and giving a good education to all children, regardless of their socioeconomic status. Don't people want the US to succeed long-term? How does keeping poor people less educated benefit a country in the long-run?

Now you are realizing that the U.S. is just like everywhere else, and not that different than 3rd world countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant, I could never understand why there was such a disparity in education quality across the U.S. I couldn't understand why poor black areas had such worse schools compared to more affluent (and usually white) areas. But this thread has been an eye-opener. I understand this much better now. It seems the more affluent folks want their money to benefit only them and their families. They don't see the benefit to society of elevating everyone and giving a good education to all children, regardless of their socioeconomic status. Don't people want the US to succeed long-term? How does keeping poor people less educated benefit a country in the long-run?

I am an immigrant as well and I live in McLean. Nobody here opposes other schools benefiting from a healthy tax base, what we have accepted is that “others” will be benefited at our expense while our kids sit in trailers. No, thanks!