McLean to Explore Separating from FC & FCPS

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Im confused. Does McLean want to become a city just like Fairfax City, City of Falls Church, or just break off their own schools? Because this seems to be to be all about schools vs any other municipal services.

I guess my first question would be why you expect Fairfax County to just give you its school buildings/properties/other municipal buildings if you are going to secede from the county? These properties(Ie the land they are built on) are worth millions!

The county has no way to unlock that value without investing many millions more in school facilities elsewhere. That is why such facilities are often ceded to seceding jurisdictions - the county would actually be relieved of the obligations associated with their existing dedicated use. If you think it would be a bad deal for the county, you are acknowledging the county benefits by treating McLean as a cash cow without providing a reciprocal level of services.

Why would Fairfax County give the land away though? Regardless of whats housed there—schools or parks or a warehouse, its land the county owns. Why would it give this land to a seceding jurisdiction?

What purpose would it serve to retain ownership of the school buildings and land without the ability to tax the residents? Sounds like a tough piece of real estate to maintain without real estate taxes from McLean.

There would be a shitload of hard feelings over this. Why wouldnt Fairfax County just sell it to a developer. Why would they want to help the City of McLean?

I imagine a developer wouldnt touch this with a 10 foot pole. They probably would get exactly nowhere with the pissed off parents of students.

When have real eatate developers even shown a shred of caring about anything but their bottom line? How many SFHs could be built on the McLean HS land?

And where would the students living in those SFH go to school?

Not happening. Also doubtful that McLean would let anything be permitted there

Someone moving to the area 5 years from now isnt going to care about some random local political infighting that resulted in their house being built on the land where a school once stood, as long as their own kids get a good education at either a private or public school.

How many times are you going to repeat the same nonsense?

There is no scenario where the county is going to sell these schools to a developer. They will either need them for FCPS, or it will be a negotiated transfer to a new jurisdiction that assumes responsibility for educating most if not all of the students who attend them currently.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

+1

No one wants McLean schools to get more than other schools in FCPS. They want to be treated equally. I’m not sure you understand what goes on. FCPS regularly puts money into schools in poorer areas and then expects McLean schools to do without. For example, fields at poorer schools are regularly funded by FCPS. If McLean needs money for fields, they are required to fundraise for them. The county will not pay for them. That is just one example.

Citizens of mclean just want to be treated equally, not better than. But they are constantly being treated less than all others in the county because they assume the citizens will just fund it themselves.

But then FCPS is perfectly ready to take credit for the high test scores that come out of the underfunded schools. Even though it is the parents and students that actually are responsible for those phenomenal test scores.

Ummm... maybe the teachers helped also. But they don't live in McLean, I guess.

Sorry - I don't disagree that the teachers help. But McLean is not provided with better teachers than the rest of the county. You can't say that the teachers at McLean/Langley are so much better than the teachers at South Lakes can you? So much so that it makes the difference in all the test scores?

It is generally easier to recruit and retain teachers at McLean/Langley than at many other schools because the teachers don't have to work as hard or deal with as many disciplinary issues, but the flip-side is that the area is expensive and teachers may prefer positions closer to where they live.

If McLean City ran its own schools, it likely could pay higher salaries than FCPS or offer smaller class sizes, both advantages to teachers.

Is this what Fairfax City and McLean currently do?

Fairfax City owns all the school buildings in that jurisdiction, and they contract with FCPS to operate them. I don't believe teachers at Fairfax, Lanier, Providence or Daniels Run get paid more than other FCPS teachers.

Falls Church City owns and operates all the school buildings in that jurisdiction (and one school that is physically located in Fairfax County); on average, teachers get paid $3000 more than in FCPS and classes are smaller.

McLean would not try to self-incorporate unless it planned to follow the FCC model. A primary driver is the dissatisfaction with FCPS.

McLean City would probably have at least twice the population of Fairfax City and about four times the population of Falls Church City, by the way. And it wouldn't be a city within the county, like Fairfax City; rather its boundaries would be north of Fairfax County.

[Anonymous]

Or maybe FCPS will finally follow through to appease y’all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

+1

No one wants McLean schools to get more than other schools in FCPS. They want to be treated equally. I’m not sure you understand what goes on. FCPS regularly puts money into schools in poorer areas and then expects McLean schools to do without. For example, fields at poorer schools are regularly funded by FCPS. If McLean needs money for fields, they are required to fundraise for them. The county will not pay for them. That is just one example.

Citizens of mclean just want to be treated equally, not better than. But they are constantly being treated less than all others in the county because they assume the citizens will just fund it themselves.

But then FCPS is perfectly ready to take credit for the high test scores that come out of the underfunded schools. Even though it is the parents and students that actually are responsible for those phenomenal test scores.

Ummm... maybe the teachers helped also. But they don't live in McLean, I guess.

Sorry - I don't disagree that the teachers help. But McLean is not provided with better teachers than the rest of the county. You can't say that the teachers at McLean/Langley are so much better than the teachers at South Lakes can you? So much so that it makes the difference in all the test scores?

It is generally easier to recruit and retain teachers at McLean/Langley than at many other schools because the teachers don't have to work as hard or deal with as many disciplinary issues, but the flip-side is that the area is expensive and teachers may prefer positions closer to where they live.

If McLean City ran its own schools, it likely could pay higher salaries than FCPS or offer smaller class sizes, both advantages to teachers.

Is this what Fairfax City and McLean currently do?

Fairfax City owns all the school buildings in that jurisdiction, and they contract with FCPS to operate them. I don't believe teachers at Fairfax, Lanier, Providence or Daniels Run get paid more than other FCPS teachers.

Falls Church City owns and operates all the school buildings in that jurisdiction (and one school that is physically located in Fairfax County); on average, teachers get paid $3000 more than in FCPS and classes are smaller.

McLean would not try to self-incorporate unless it planned to follow the FCC model. A primary driver is the dissatisfaction with FCPS.

McLean City would probably have at least twice the population of Fairfax City and about four times the population of Falls Church City, by the way. And it wouldn't be a city within the county, like Fairfax City; rather its boundaries would be north of Fairfax County.

The more I hear about this, the more it starts to make sense.

[Anonymous]

What would the boundaries be? How much of McLean would be commercial vs residential? Fairfax County wouldnt want to give up the commercial tax base of Tysons (for instance) but McLean would greatly benefit from the same commercial tax base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im confused. Does McLean want to become a city just like Fairfax City, City of Falls Church, or just break off their own schools? Because this seems to be to be all about schools vs any other municipal services.

I guess my first question would be why you expect Fairfax County to just give you its school buildings/properties/other municipal buildings if you are going to secede from the county? These properties(Ie the land they are built on) are worth millions!

The county has no way to unlock that value without investing many millions more in school facilities elsewhere. That is why such facilities are often ceded to seceding jurisdictions - the county would actually be relieved of the obligations associated with their existing dedicated use. If you think it would be a bad deal for the county, you are acknowledging the county benefits by treating McLean as a cash cow without providing a reciprocal level of services.

Why would Fairfax County give the land away though? Regardless of whats housed there—schools or parks or a warehouse, its land the county owns. Why would it give this land to a seceding jurisdiction?

What purpose would it serve to retain ownership of the school buildings and land without the ability to tax the residents? Sounds like a tough piece of real estate to maintain without real estate taxes from McLean.

There would be a shitload of hard feelings over this. Why wouldnt Fairfax County just sell it to a developer. Why would they want to help the City of McLean?

I imagine a developer wouldnt touch this with a 10 foot pole. They probably would get exactly nowhere with the pissed off parents of students.

When have real eatate developers even shown a shred of caring about anything but their bottom line? How many SFHs could be built on the McLean HS land?

How many times are you going to repeat the same nonsense?

There is no scenario where the county is going to sell these schools to a developer. They will either need them for FCPS, or it will be a negotiated transfer to a new jurisdiction that assumes responsibility for educating most if not all of the students who attend them currently.

Why do you think this negotiated transfer is going to be so awesome and peaceful? Fairfax County isnt just going to give up McLean because the MCA wants them to.

Never said it would be; however, at some point, the county might want to put an end to what would become an increasingly public airing of the reasons why McLean-area residents are so fed up with the county.

You dont think it would just sound like a bunch of rich people complaining?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would the boundaries be? How much of McLean would be commercial vs residential? Fairfax County wouldnt want to give up the commercial tax base of Tysons (for instance) but McLean would greatly benefit from the same commercial tax base.

Go look at the MCA page - they have a map with their boundary on it. I imagine they may include the Great Falls area west of what they show.

This isn't actually happening at this point - it is just all talk. No one has come up with any details. It likely will ALWAYS be just talk.

But it sure would be nice...

[Anonymous]

Reposting the article from the initial post...

https://www.tysonsreporter.com/2020/12/02/mclean-citizens-association-puts-city-of-mclean-on-agenda/

No real action here, just talk, though they specifically cite the overcrowding at McLean HS. Interestingly, some of the very few comments specifically say they would not want to take over the schools - they are more interested in zoning.

You McLean parents interested in pushing this need to get involved in MCA .

[Anonymous]

If you are in support of this, please join the MCA. The only way this will actually happen is if people push for it. There is clearly a lot of support in the McLean community.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

[Anonymous]

This is predictably what happens when "equity" becomes the primary focus of a school system or county government.

The equity advocates are very clear. "Equity" is about taking all steps possible to produce equal outcomes; "equality" is about similar levels of resource allocation and equal opportunities.

People thought "equity" sounded reasonable, so they supported candidates who endorsed One Fairfax and the "equity" agenda. Now they're seeing that officials will deliberately allocate fewer resources to places like McLean because that might elevate equality over equity, whereas spending more on low-income areas and less in higher-income areas is consistent with an "equity" focus.

This was readily accepted when it wasn't so explicitly stated. Folks in McLean (and Vienna, Burke, Fairfax Station, and similar areas) tacitly agreed that some schools would get more funding, have smaller classes, receive additional teacher's aides, etc. It seemed appropriately designed to give an extra boost to higher-needs students.

But now it's all spelled out explicitly, people are expected to accept it as a matter of faith or else, and the short-changing of higher-income areas isn't treated like a necessary evil, but something that's a moral imperative. As it turns out, people still care about their own kids, and they don't like what they are seeing. Whether McLean can pull off separating from FC remains to be seen, but it's another canary in the coal mine that people weren't quite as "all-in" on the equity bandwagon as some of their recent votes may have suggested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

Apart from the shooting, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is predictably what happens when "equity" becomes the primary focus of a school system or county government.

The equity advocates are very clear. "Equity" is about taking all steps possible to produce equal outcomes; "equality" is about similar levels of resource allocation and equal opportunities.

People thought "equity" sounded reasonable, so they supported candidates who endorsed One Fairfax and the "equity" agenda. Now they're seeing that officials will deliberately allocate fewer resources to places like McLean because that might elevate equality over equity, whereas spending more on low-income areas and less in higher-income areas is consistent with an "equity" focus.

This was readily accepted when it wasn't so explicitly stated. Folks in McLean (and Vienna, Burke, Fairfax Station, and similar areas) tacitly agreed that some schools would get more funding, have smaller classes, receive additional teacher's aides, etc. It seemed appropriately designed to give an extra boost to higher-needs students.

But now it's all spelled out explicitly, people are expected to accept it as a matter of faith or else, and the short-changing of higher-income areas isn't treated like a necessary evil, but something that's a moral imperative. As it turns out, people still care about their own kids, and they don't like what they are seeing. Whether McLean can pull off separating from FC remains to be seen, but it's another canary in the coal mine that people weren't quite as "all-in" on the equity bandwagon as some of their recent votes may have suggested.

This is half of it. The other half is that the other candidates were nutters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

Apart from the shooting, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Langley got got a renovation, now other schools in the county are- should McLean jump in line?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

The top schools in Va (after TJ) are Langley and Mclean HS. Langley got a beautiful renovation done recently. Apart from the over-crowding issue at Mclean HS, how exactly are these schools being "short-changed"?

Apart from the shooting, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

DP. I don't understand it either. "McLean HS is being held back by mean and bloated FCPS!!!" Umm, how?