Jen Hatmaker

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a huge fan girl, and only learned about her back in April or so. Guess what, I have three teenagers and I SOOOO related with her virtual schooling posts from last spring. It was a cluster F and my teens were exactly like hers. My 2020 Senior would have also tried to skip out on the graduation ceremony. Instead his was canceled entirely and we had a five minute graduation in our back yard.

Maybe you have really young kids, but I found her very relatable in the six months since I've read her posts.

Mom of teen and tween here. Yes the last 6 months have been hard, but I still push to teach my kids to be respectful. It's bad enough she condones disrespect, but she celebrates it and makes it charming. She is teaching them the rules don't apply to them. And...on her coattails they might not. She may be able to employ them down the line. However, they got plenty of followers on her coattails and then suddenly were upset when it became intrusive as the parents marriage fell apart. In adulthood if their own way of supporting themselves is social media that won't fly. In the real world of jobs, you have to suck it up even when you are bored or annoyed and mommy isn't going to be able to put a cute spin about every job you get fired from due to a tude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this kind of "confessing" is a pretty well known defense mechanism and think it can be very reinforcing. I admit my embarrassing behavior and put it out there publicly for you, I mock myself. In doing so I look self aware, i am in on the joke and shaping the story, and I can indulge my wish that by doing so, by mocking myself, you will judge me less harshly. I am also funny and charming, so you may find me endearing, we can maybe bond around it, etc. And I can feel less crappy about what I did and maybe even not think about it because your support gave me a little dopamine hit and I feel better. I am ok...Underneath it, there was often guilt and shame, but it got projected and i got my goodies from someone else to feel better. It's a very common, human thing to do.

I don't think it contributes to thinking more deeply or learning though, that's the problem. It has a, "oh well....this is how we are" quality that does not really allow for a whole lot of change, because you are not really thinking about why you might do that, if you want to change it, etc. It seems emotionally lazy. That's my issue with that kind of post.

I think you’re right — but what happens in her “confessions” is that her fan girls fall all over themselves to normalize, accept and defend toxic or harmful behavior.

She gained a lot of viral fame for writing her missives about the end of school year and basically refusing to hold herself or children accountable for assignments, permission slips, etc. While her writing style can be humorous, I saw teachers comment that end of year is hard for everyone and losing parent support sucks for them — and her followers bullied those women into silence.

Same when she made the bizarre post about her son’s graduation. He got up in the middle of the ceremony and walked out and she thought it was funny and “so him” and when people said it felt disrespectful it was quickly shut up.

This is just middle age Mean Girls with #blessed yeti cups.

Great line and spot on. I have a few of these in my neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this kind of "confessing" is a pretty well known defense mechanism and think it can be very reinforcing. I admit my embarrassing behavior and put it out there publicly for you, I mock myself. In doing so I look self aware, i am in on the joke and shaping the story, and I can indulge my wish that by doing so, by mocking myself, you will judge me less harshly. I am also funny and charming, so you may find me endearing, we can maybe bond around it, etc. And I can feel less crappy about what I did and maybe even not think about it because your support gave me a little dopamine hit and I feel better. I am ok...Underneath it, there was often guilt and shame, but it got projected and i got my goodies from someone else to feel better. It's a very common, human thing to do.

I don't think it contributes to thinking more deeply or learning though, that's the problem. It has a, "oh well....this is how we are" quality that does not really allow for a whole lot of change, because you are not really thinking about why you might do that, if you want to change it, etc. It seems emotionally lazy. That's my issue with that kind of post.

I think you’re right — but what happens in her “confessions” is that her fan girls fall all over themselves to normalize, accept and defend toxic or harmful behavior.

She gained a lot of viral fame for writing her missives about the end of school year and basically refusing to hold herself or children accountable for assignments, permission slips, etc. While her writing style can be humorous, I saw teachers comment that end of year is hard for everyone and losing parent support sucks for them — and her followers bullied those women into silence.

Same when she made the bizarre post about her son’s graduation. He got up in the middle of the ceremony and walked out and she thought it was funny and “so him” and when people said it felt disrespectful it was quickly shut up.

This is just middle age Mean Girls with #blessed yeti cups.

Great line and spot on. I have a few of these in my neighborhood.

YES! The absolute worst is when "religious" people do this. It's like they think if they praise Jesus to others they can be mean girlz and it's God approved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a huge fan girl, and only learned about her back in April or so. Guess what, I have three teenagers and I SOOOO related with her virtual schooling posts from last spring. It was a cluster F and my teens were exactly like hers. My 2020 Senior would have also tried to skip out on the graduation ceremony. Instead his was canceled entirely and we had a five minute graduation in our back yard.

Maybe you have really young kids, but I found her very relatable in the six months since I've read her posts.

Mom of teen and tween here. Yes the last 6 months have been hard, but I still push to teach my kids to be respectful. It's bad enough she condones disrespect, but she celebrates it and makes it charming. She is teaching them the rules don't apply to them. And...on her coattails they might not. She may be able to employ them down the line. However, they got plenty of followers on her coattails and then suddenly were upset when it became intrusive as the parents marriage fell apart. In adulthood if their own way of supporting themselves is social media that won't fly. In the real world of jobs, you have to suck it up even when you are bored or annoyed and mommy isn't going to be able to put a cute spin about every job you get fired from due to a tude.

The charmingly disrespectful teenager trope only seems to work if you are white and upper-middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a huge fan girl, and only learned about her back in April or so. Guess what, I have three teenagers and I SOOOO related with her virtual schooling posts from last spring. It was a cluster F and my teens were exactly like hers. My 2020 Senior would have also tried to skip out on the graduation ceremony. Instead his was canceled entirely and we had a five minute graduation in our back yard.

Maybe you have really young kids, but I found her very relatable in the six months since I've read her posts.

Mom of teen and tween here. Yes the last 6 months have been hard, but I still push to teach my kids to be respectful. It's bad enough she condones disrespect, but she celebrates it and makes it charming. She is teaching them the rules don't apply to them. And...on her coattails they might not. She may be able to employ them down the line. However, they got plenty of followers on her coattails and then suddenly were upset when it became intrusive as the parents marriage fell apart. In adulthood if their own way of supporting themselves is social media that won't fly. In the real world of jobs, you have to suck it up even when you are bored or annoyed and mommy isn't going to be able to put a cute spin about every job you get fired from due to a tude.

The charmingly disrespectful teenager trope only seems to work if you are white and upper-middle class.

True...she sounds immature and impulsive actually, which she seemed to find charming in her son. It's so interesting to reflect on how she was given the benefit of the doubt regarding a very quick filing of divorce (he must have done something really "bad") but you know what? She also might be something of an impulsive hot head. But wrapped in a lot of charm

[Anonymous]

I think she has histrionic features, meaning attention seeking, lacking in depth and prone to valuing emotionality over thinking. She's a dramatic person and dramatic writer, which can be very appealing on the wider stage. I get why people like it at first.

[Anonymous]

The board game comment was odd. But most narcissists I know like to deliver hidden messages that they can't be called out on. "What? I was just talking about being competitive playing board games. You're crazy if you think that was a veiled threat!" But posting a picture of yourself with all of your kids around you, talking about how competitive you are and showing how snarly you can be when you're in the middle of a divorce. I took it as a threat to Brandon hatmaker that she can be competitive about the kids and she can win.

I'm also guessing that he's struggling with addiction but that he aked for the divorce. And the urgency in filing was because she wanted to make sure she filed first so that it would look outwardly like it was her decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The board game comment was odd. But most narcissists I know like to deliver hidden messages that they can't be called out on. "What? I was just talking about being competitive playing board games. You're crazy if you think that was a veiled threat!" But posting a picture of yourself with all of your kids around you, talking about how competitive you are and showing how snarly you can be when you're in the middle of a divorce. I took it as a threat to Brandon hatmaker that she can be competitive about the kids and she can win.

+1

[Anonymous]

I'm going to totally do some projecting of my own issues here. My mother is very charming and impulsive and as Jen would say :"spicy" and "too much." She totally finds cutesy ways to portray her alarming behavior. She had me convinced all my parent's marital drama was dad's faulty and I bought into it for years. (They stayed married.) When I was on her good side it was glorious, but as I became more of a daddy's girl she made my life hell. The woman everyone loooooves outside was such a tyrant to me I still dream of divorcing her. I feel enough connection to be there for her in old age in some capacity, but i do think she is toxic to my health if I get too close. It's all the more difficult because people love her so much, if I ever shared my truth, they wouldn't believe me and she would spin it so I am the bad guy.

This is why I give Brandon the benefit of the doubt the person who used to have something like "champion of the underdog" on his IG. I am loyal, kind, humble and just don't have the kind of charisma to win people over the way mom does, but that does not make me the bad guy. If alcoholism were in my genes I probably would have developed a problem coping with her. I certainly had eating issues in the past-both extremes and other struggles before I set and enforced major boundaries with my mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this kind of "confessing" is a pretty well known defense mechanism and think it can be very reinforcing. I admit my embarrassing behavior and put it out there publicly for you, I mock myself. In doing so I look self aware, i am in on the joke and shaping the story, and I can indulge my wish that by doing so, by mocking myself, you will judge me less harshly. I am also funny and charming, so you may find me endearing, we can maybe bond around it, etc. And I can feel less crappy about what I did and maybe even not think about it because your support gave me a little dopamine hit and I feel better. I am ok...Underneath it, there was often guilt and shame, but it got projected and i got my goodies from someone else to feel better. It's a very common, human thing to do.

I don't think it contributes to thinking more deeply or learning though, that's the problem. It has a, "oh well....this is how we are" quality that does not really allow for a whole lot of change, because you are not really thinking about why you might do that, if you want to change it, etc. It seems emotionally lazy. That's my issue with that kind of post.

I think you’re right — but what happens in her “confessions” is that her fan girls fall all over themselves to normalize, accept and defend toxic or harmful behavior.

She gained a lot of viral fame for writing her missives about the end of school year and basically refusing to hold herself or children accountable for assignments, permission slips, etc. While her writing style can be humorous, I saw teachers comment that end of year is hard for everyone and losing parent support sucks for them — and her followers bullied those women into silence.

Same when she made the bizarre post about her son’s graduation. He got up in the middle of the ceremony and walked out and she thought it was funny and “so him” and when people said it felt disrespectful it was quickly shut up.

This is just middle age Mean Girls with #blessed yeti cups.

Great line and spot on. I have a few of these in my neighborhood.

+1

That line was amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to totally do some projecting of my own issues here. My mother is very charming and impulsive and as Jen would say :"spicy" and "too much." She totally finds cutesy ways to portray her alarming behavior. She had me convinced all my parent's marital drama was dad's faulty and I bought into it for years. (They stayed married.) When I was on her good side it was glorious, but as I became more of a daddy's girl she made my life hell. The woman everyone loooooves outside was such a tyrant to me I still dream of divorcing her. I feel enough connection to be there for her in old age in some capacity, but i do think she is toxic to my health if I get too close. It's all the more difficult because people love her so much, if I ever shared my truth, they wouldn't believe me and she would spin it so I am the bad guy.

This is why I give Brandon the benefit of the doubt the person who used to have something like "champion of the underdog" on his IG. I am loyal, kind, humble and just don't have the kind of charisma to win people over the way mom does, but that does not make me the bad guy. If alcoholism were in my genes I probably would have developed a problem coping with her. I certainly had eating issues in the past-both extremes and other struggles before I set and enforced major boundaries with my mother.

Feel for you, and let me just say that narcissistic and borderline dynamics are very well known in the larger culture now so some people in your circle (probably younger ones) will get it and get you. Many more people are psychologically sophisticated and will get it. I wish that for you, even one person can help.

[Anonymous]

Older personality disordered mothers (and fathers) got away with a lot of sh#t, that's for sure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The board game comment was odd. But most narcissists I know like to deliver hidden messages that they can't be called out on. "What? I was just talking about being competitive playing board games. You're crazy if you think that was a veiled threat!" But posting a picture of yourself with all of your kids around you, talking about how competitive you are and showing how snarly you can be when you're in the middle of a divorce. I took it as a threat to Brandon hatmaker that she can be competitive about the kids and she can win.

I'm also guessing that he's struggling with addiction but that he aked for the divorce. And the urgency in filing was because she wanted to make sure she filed first so that it would look outwardly like it was her decision.

I think it is exactly that. She has all the children. She has all the followers. She has all the spicy charm.

Who know what finally pushed them over the edge -- but if the man is struggling with addiction the goading, alienation of children and threats aren't making his recovery very easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Older personality disordered mothers (and fathers) got away with a lot of sh#t, that's for sure

She's not that old. Maybe 45? I mean to have three adult kids, and two in high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Older personality disordered mothers (and fathers) got away with a lot of sh#t, that's for sure

She's not that old. Maybe 45? I mean to have three adult kids, and two in high school

Oh i was referring to the poster's older mother, who she said had all the charisma and charm, so it ws hard for people to believe the poster could have had such a tormented time with her disordered mother.