Summer Swim Canceled

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just told my A meet summer swimming only 10 year old and she was sad but not surprised. I hope these tough conversations go well for others too. Kids are showing remarkable resilience in the face of sadness.

This is a weird response. What difference does it make if she's an A meet swimmer. Nobody cares.

The parent cares. A meet/ B meet hierarchy is important.

If her non year round swimmer goes to a meets, she’ll likely go every year bc of the type of team she has or the team’s age group makeup. The child also doesn’t swim year round. That means that it could easily not be that big of a deal to a child like this. A child who loves swimming, swims year round, would be at the top of his/her age group this year, loves summer swim friends, has a good shot at all stars, etc would be more upset. So saying that information about her kid tells the reader to take her kid’s reaction with a grain of salt.

I'm still not following. The PP seemed to go out of her way to bring up that her DD was an A swimmer like anyone on this board really cared. All we wanted was summer swim to take place...no one on this board cares about this one child who swims A meets. That's not why we're all here.

My year round team swimmer is not a fast swimmer but does it for the enjoyment and exercise. I feel bad for the kids whose parents push and make such a big deal out of winning and meets as it takes the fun out of it. Summer team is for fun. Most of the All starts and divisional kids aren't even participating on the summer teams except meets which should not be allowed. The teams use them for the wins and they use the teams for the meets. Its pretty sad. They should be required to practice at least 3 days a week if they want to go to meets and actually be a part of the team.

I think you are wrong about the elite swimmers not participating except for meets. They may not be at many practices, but mine are at every "dine out", they go to the B meets to support the team even if they are not swimming, they volunteer to help with the pre-team, they are at the banquet, and every Friday night spirit events!. And they usually come from the club practice to summer practice a couple of days a week just to see their friends. Swim practice doesn't work well with outliers in terms of speed. HS teams function the same way with the faster club swimmers doing their club practice. You can't run a practice that challenges three very fast kids unless you give them their own lane (and honesly, you'd probably complain if that was done at summer league practices)

Curious, . . . are you a stroke and turn official, a team rep, a referree, head timer, a starter, automation operator? Parents of non-year around swimmers can certainly do those jobs (and are often asked to), but in my experience they rarely do. They rely on the parents of yea-round swimmers, who draw on their knowledge of the sport, to make the summer league run smoothly. So if you want to do summer swimming without them, you'd need to be prepared to step it up in a mjor way.

We are year round swimmers. Why do you assume we aren't? People like you are exhausting. We let our kids enjoy swimming. You should try it. Yes, we are certified in several areas and my spouse does every A and B meet when they let us. We would love to be team rep or more involved but we have a team parent whose kids are no longer on the team refuse to let others help which is a huge issue on the team. We do as much as we are allowed and are at every meet, A and B and do anything ask, even last minute.

And, you proved the point, they should be made to do practices or they should not be allowed to compete. They aren't part of the team if they are not practicing with the team. You want your kids treated as more special. Our team gives lanes to the top A kids (low A kids don't get it) only so there are tons of kids in all the lanes and a few kids get the two A meet kid lanes.

P.S. your kids aren't actually helping at pre-team. Usually they are goofing off and hanging out together.

I’m glad you are involved. I find it strange that you resent some kids being on the team. Our team has many elite swimmers and many that aren’t. They all have fun together. It sounds like your pool has some issues, perhaps you should look into switching teams. We have two types of kids that don’t come to practices regularly (1) kids of working parents who might do their club practice early in the am and then go to camp and (2) 14 and ups who are swimming at a high level and will show up inconsistently, but they are also often the leaders and junior coaches. We are happy to have them all be a part of our community. It sounds like to me you are just a bit bitter your kid doesn’t get to swim at Divisionals.

One or both of us is at every practice and every meet. You make lots of assumptions. We've made it to divisional. My child who swims has multiple interests so divisionals is great but not a priority for that child vs. the other activity. If ours cannot come to day practices they go to night so there really is no excuse not to do practices when there are both day and night practices. We switch between day and night but go 5 days a week. Older kids take the bus, bike or walk or get rides. You sound pretty judgmental and I don't get parents like you but I do agree with you about our team.

Well, practice attendace is not required, so you should perhaps stop resenting kids who aren’t breaking any rules and just focus on whether you want to be a part of your team or not. If you are at practice every day, your child is likely a 10 and under (I certainly hope so anyway). Part of your assumptions just don’t make sense for older swimmers who are training elsewhere. The delta in abilities expands and the impact of including all of these kids at practice would just make practice less productive for summer swimmers who are using summer practice as their primary practice. Kids do specialize as they get older. It changes the way summer swimming fits into their lives but at our pool it’s a beloved part of the lives for kids who specialize at swimming and are college-bound swimmers and for those that just do it for fun. Our reps are ever-conscious to focus on the fun and inclusion not just the competition.

My child swims 5 days a week and takes private lessons in the winter and summer is 5 days plus a private lesson and sometimes swims other days as well.. Mine is very serious and younger. But, I'm not looking for a college scholarship and think as parents as long as we can afford to pay for college we will. That's the big difference. You are looking for a scholorship and only care about the competition as things like paying for college aren't your priority.

Practice should be required to be part of the team.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. When your kids get older, you will learn that those kids (who you wrongly think are mine) whose parents are motivated by scholarships . . . they quit or are no longer standout swimmers by junior year in HS. Kids have to be self-motivated to become an elite swimmer beyond the age of 12. It’s an unforgiving, grueling sport. You can’t make a 16 year old go to swim practice and work hard. They set their alarm at 4:15, drive themselves, work their ass off, then go to school, then go back to the pool, then home for homework (repeat). Tthey only do that if they want to. We too saved for college and want our college-bound swimmer to pick the best college for her. That means it has the academic major she wants and she can swim and contribute to the team. That may be a division III school or Ivy League school where there is no scholarship money. BTW, she could go to UMD cheaper than any of the school’s she is considering to swim at because they are all OOS or private with partial scholarships only (if any after the COVID-19 damage to universities is accounted for).

Actually you can force kids to do it... I'm assuming you are one fo those parents that didn't save for college, could have saved and have plenty of money and are looking for any reason not to pay for college. I don't care if my child is on the elite team or not and I wouldn't want mine swimming in college as they are there for academics. My child is younger and we have enough saved for state school, room and board plus some for graduate school. Mine swim for fun. Yours swim to get college paid for. I feel bad for yours.

You clearly missed the point and have reading comprehension problems. You can take a kid to practice but you can't make them WORK HARD once they are there. You need to land your helicopter! And you're wrong about my savings too (college is saved, house and cars are all paid for in full and we live modestly but have plenty of cash).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for spoiling the thread people.

A thread seeking empathy about the parent/child aspect of this should probably have been put in a parenting/teen/elem school forum.

[Anonymous]

This post makes me so glad my kids don't swim anymore! I remember the vitriol of the summer parents v. the year round parents and once a person literally said to me "Well my daughter is really good at butterfly, but no one knows because of your kid" My kid wasn't even a butterflier, fwiw. I guess they stayed up nights wishing we'd move or something :/

It gets very dangerous to have that many kids in a pool who are so uneven in terms of speeds, for those who want the year rounders there. Also, you'll complain the first time they hit each other at full velocity and hurt a finger.

[Anonymous]

So, anyway. Swimming is fun. I hope they get to do it this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post makes me so glad my kids don't swim anymore! I remember the vitriol of the summer parents v. the year round parents and once a person literally said to me "Well my daughter is really good at butterfly, but no one knows because of your kid" My kid wasn't even a butterflier, fwiw. I guess they stayed up nights wishing we'd move or something :/

It gets very dangerous to have that many kids in a pool who are so uneven in terms of speeds, for those who want the year rounders there. Also, you'll complain the first time they hit each other at full velocity and hurt a finger.

Vitriol? Sounds like she was giving you a compliment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NVSL swim parent here. Any chance a team might want to run swim practices for maybe 4 weeks this summer. Give the swimmers an hour of lap swimming, friendly competition, relay games. Kid has to be mature enough to follow the rules. I could see maybe half of our usual 150 swimmers wanting to do this. So 8 and unders, 9 to 12, and teens practice separately. 6 lanes, say 25 kids at each practice. I would pay for that.

They could have more practices so they limit kids to 4-6 a lane instead of 10-12. They don't need the meets or can just do their own meets. Also, for us, set up the pool to do 50's for the older kids so kids are more spread out.

Current regulations from Northam restricts outdoor pools to 1 person/per lane

How does that work? Will you have to book a time slot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post makes me so glad my kids don't swim anymore! I remember the vitriol of the summer parents v. the year round parents and once a person literally said to me "Well my daughter is really good at butterfly, but no one knows because of your kid" My kid wasn't even a butterflier, fwiw. I guess they stayed up nights wishing we'd move or something :/

It gets very dangerous to have that many kids in a pool who are so uneven in terms of speeds, for those who want the year rounders there. Also, you'll complain the first time they hit each other at full velocity and hurt a finger.

Most pools divide up the kids per speed and skill so your post makes no sense saying its dangerous.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just told my A meet summer swimming only 10 year old and she was sad but not surprised. I hope these tough conversations go well for others too. Kids are showing remarkable resilience in the face of sadness.

This is a weird response. What difference does it make if she's an A meet swimmer. Nobody cares.

The parent cares. A meet/ B meet hierarchy is important.

If her non year round swimmer goes to a meets, she’ll likely go every year bc of the type of team she has or the team’s age group makeup. The child also doesn’t swim year round. That means that it could easily not be that big of a deal to a child like this. A child who loves swimming, swims year round, would be at the top of his/her age group this year, loves summer swim friends, has a good shot at all stars, etc would be more upset. So saying that information about her kid tells the reader to take her kid’s reaction with a grain of salt.

I'm still not following. The PP seemed to go out of her way to bring up that her DD was an A swimmer like anyone on this board really cared. All we wanted was summer swim to take place...no one on this board cares about this one child who swims A meets. That's not why we're all here.

My year round team swimmer is not a fast swimmer but does it for the enjoyment and exercise. I feel bad for the kids whose parents push and make such a big deal out of winning and meets as it takes the fun out of it. Summer team is for fun. Most of the All starts and divisional kids aren't even participating on the summer teams except meets which should not be allowed. The teams use them for the wins and they use the teams for the meets. Its pretty sad. They should be required to practice at least 3 days a week if they want to go to meets and actually be a part of the team.

I think you are wrong about the elite swimmers not participating except for meets. They may not be at many practices, but mine are at every "dine out", they go to the B meets to support the team even if they are not swimming, they volunteer to help with the pre-team, they are at the banquet, and every Friday night spirit events!. And they usually come from the club practice to summer practice a couple of days a week just to see their friends. Swim practice doesn't work well with outliers in terms of speed. HS teams function the same way with the faster club swimmers doing their club practice. You can't run a practice that challenges three very fast kids unless you give them their own lane (and honesly, you'd probably complain if that was done at summer league practices)

Curious, . . . are you a stroke and turn official, a team rep, a referree, head timer, a starter, automation operator? Parents of non-year around swimmers can certainly do those jobs (and are often asked to), but in my experience they rarely do. They rely on the parents of yea-round swimmers, who draw on their knowledge of the sport, to make the summer league run smoothly. So if you want to do summer swimming without them, you'd need to be prepared to step it up in a mjor way.

We are year round swimmers. Why do you assume we aren't? People like you are exhausting. We let our kids enjoy swimming. You should try it. Yes, we are certified in several areas and my spouse does every A and B meet when they let us. We would love to be team rep or more involved but we have a team parent whose kids are no longer on the team refuse to let others help which is a huge issue on the team. We do as much as we are allowed and are at every meet, A and B and do anything ask, even last minute.

And, you proved the point, they should be made to do practices or they should not be allowed to compete. They aren't part of the team if they are not practicing with the team. You want your kids treated as more special. Our team gives lanes to the top A kids (low A kids don't get it) only so there are tons of kids in all the lanes and a few kids get the two A meet kid lanes.

P.S. your kids aren't actually helping at pre-team. Usually they are goofing off and hanging out together.

I’m glad you are involved. I find it strange that you resent some kids being on the team. Our team has many elite swimmers and many that aren’t. They all have fun together. It sounds like your pool has some issues, perhaps you should look into switching teams. We have two types of kids that don’t come to practices regularly (1) kids of working parents who might do their club practice early in the am and then go to camp and (2) 14 and ups who are swimming at a high level and will show up inconsistently, but they are also often the leaders and junior coaches. We are happy to have them all be a part of our community. It sounds like to me you are just a bit bitter your kid doesn’t get to swim at Divisionals.

One or both of us is at every practice and every meet. You make lots of assumptions. We've made it to divisional. My child who swims has multiple interests so divisionals is great but not a priority for that child vs. the other activity. If ours cannot come to day practices they go to night so there really is no excuse not to do practices when there are both day and night practices. We switch between day and night but go 5 days a week. Older kids take the bus, bike or walk or get rides. You sound pretty judgmental and I don't get parents like you but I do agree with you about our team.

Well, practice attendace is not required, so you should perhaps stop resenting kids who aren’t breaking any rules and just focus on whether you want to be a part of your team or not. If you are at practice every day, your child is likely a 10 and under (I certainly hope so anyway). Part of your assumptions just don’t make sense for older swimmers who are training elsewhere. The delta in abilities expands and the impact of including all of these kids at practice would just make practice less productive for summer swimmers who are using summer practice as their primary practice. Kids do specialize as they get older. It changes the way summer swimming fits into their lives but at our pool it’s a beloved part of the lives for kids who specialize at swimming and are college-bound swimmers and for those that just do it for fun. Our reps are ever-conscious to focus on the fun and inclusion not just the competition.

My child swims 5 days a week and takes private lessons in the winter and summer is 5 days plus a private lesson and sometimes swims other days as well.. Mine is very serious and younger. But, I'm not looking for a college scholarship and think as parents as long as we can afford to pay for college we will. That's the big difference. You are looking for a scholorship and only care about the competition as things like paying for college aren't your priority.

Practice should be required to be part of the team.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. When your kids get older, you will learn that those kids (who you wrongly think are mine) whose parents are motivated by scholarships . . . they quit or are no longer standout swimmers by junior year in HS. Kids have to be self-motivated to become an elite swimmer beyond the age of 12. It’s an unforgiving, grueling sport. You can’t make a 16 year old go to swim practice and work hard. They set their alarm at 4:15, drive themselves, work their ass off, then go to school, then go back to the pool, then home for homework (repeat). Tthey only do that if they want to. We too saved for college and want our college-bound swimmer to pick the best college for her. That means it has the academic major she wants and she can swim and contribute to the team. That may be a division III school or Ivy League school where there is no scholarship money. BTW, she could go to UMD cheaper than any of the school’s she is considering to swim at because they are all OOS or private with partial scholarships only (if any after the COVID-19 damage to universities is accounted for).

Actually you can force kids to do it... I'm assuming you are one fo those parents that didn't save for college, could have saved and have plenty of money and are looking for any reason not to pay for college. I don't care if my child is on the elite team or not and I wouldn't want mine swimming in college as they are there for academics. My child is younger and we have enough saved for state school, room and board plus some for graduate school. Mine swim for fun. Yours swim to get college paid for. I feel bad for yours.

You clearly missed the point and have reading comprehension problems. You can take a kid to practice but you can't make them WORK HARD once they are there. You need to land your helicopter! And you're wrong about my savings too (college is saved, house and cars are all paid for in full and we live modestly but have plenty of cash).

I know several kids who are forced to do it. The parents threaten and take away electronics and other stuff. We heard a kid threatened at divisions that he'd lose his iPad for a few weeks if he lost. Thankfully the group own. I don't have a helicopter. My child is swimming out of choice and we have college paid for. I don't want mine swimming in college as it takes too much time vs. other interests. Its never going to be a life long career.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just told my A meet summer swimming only 10 year old and she was sad but not surprised. I hope these tough conversations go well for others too. Kids are showing remarkable resilience in the face of sadness.

This is a weird response. What difference does it make if she's an A meet swimmer. Nobody cares.

The parent cares. A meet/ B meet hierarchy is important.

If her non year round swimmer goes to a meets, she’ll likely go every year bc of the type of team she has or the team’s age group makeup. The child also doesn’t swim year round. That means that it could easily not be that big of a deal to a child like this. A child who loves swimming, swims year round, would be at the top of his/her age group this year, loves summer swim friends, has a good shot at all stars, etc would be more upset. So saying that information about her kid tells the reader to take her kid’s reaction with a grain of salt.

I'm still not following. The PP seemed to go out of her way to bring up that her DD was an A swimmer like anyone on this board really cared. All we wanted was summer swim to take place...no one on this board cares about this one child who swims A meets. That's not why we're all here.

My year round team swimmer is not a fast swimmer but does it for the enjoyment and exercise. I feel bad for the kids whose parents push and make such a big deal out of winning and meets as it takes the fun out of it. Summer team is for fun. Most of the All starts and divisional kids aren't even participating on the summer teams except meets which should not be allowed. The teams use them for the wins and they use the teams for the meets. Its pretty sad. They should be required to practice at least 3 days a week if they want to go to meets and actually be a part of the team.

I think you are wrong about the elite swimmers not participating except for meets. They may not be at many practices, but mine are at every "dine out", they go to the B meets to support the team even if they are not swimming, they volunteer to help with the pre-team, they are at the banquet, and every Friday night spirit events!. And they usually come from the club practice to summer practice a couple of days a week just to see their friends. Swim practice doesn't work well with outliers in terms of speed. HS teams function the same way with the faster club swimmers doing their club practice. You can't run a practice that challenges three very fast kids unless you give them their own lane (and honesly, you'd probably complain if that was done at summer league practices)

Curious, . . . are you a stroke and turn official, a team rep, a referree, head timer, a starter, automation operator? Parents of non-year around swimmers can certainly do those jobs (and are often asked to), but in my experience they rarely do. They rely on the parents of yea-round swimmers, who draw on their knowledge of the sport, to make the summer league run smoothly. So if you want to do summer swimming without them, you'd need to be prepared to step it up in a mjor way.

We are year round swimmers. Why do you assume we aren't? People like you are exhausting. We let our kids enjoy swimming. You should try it. Yes, we are certified in several areas and my spouse does every A and B meet when they let us. We would love to be team rep or more involved but we have a team parent whose kids are no longer on the team refuse to let others help which is a huge issue on the team. We do as much as we are allowed and are at every meet, A and B and do anything ask, even last minute.

And, you proved the point, they should be made to do practices or they should not be allowed to compete. They aren't part of the team if they are not practicing with the team. You want your kids treated as more special. Our team gives lanes to the top A kids (low A kids don't get it) only so there are tons of kids in all the lanes and a few kids get the two A meet kid lanes.

P.S. your kids aren't actually helping at pre-team. Usually they are goofing off and hanging out together.

I’m glad you are involved. I find it strange that you resent some kids being on the team. Our team has many elite swimmers and many that aren’t. They all have fun together. It sounds like your pool has some issues, perhaps you should look into switching teams. We have two types of kids that don’t come to practices regularly (1) kids of working parents who might do their club practice early in the am and then go to camp and (2) 14 and ups who are swimming at a high level and will show up inconsistently, but they are also often the leaders and junior coaches. We are happy to have them all be a part of our community. It sounds like to me you are just a bit bitter your kid doesn’t get to swim at Divisionals.

One or both of us is at every practice and every meet. You make lots of assumptions. We've made it to divisional. My child who swims has multiple interests so divisionals is great but not a priority for that child vs. the other activity. If ours cannot come to day practices they go to night so there really is no excuse not to do practices when there are both day and night practices. We switch between day and night but go 5 days a week. Older kids take the bus, bike or walk or get rides. You sound pretty judgmental and I don't get parents like you but I do agree with you about our team.

Well, practice attendace is not required, so you should perhaps stop resenting kids who aren’t breaking any rules and just focus on whether you want to be a part of your team or not. If you are at practice every day, your child is likely a 10 and under (I certainly hope so anyway). Part of your assumptions just don’t make sense for older swimmers who are training elsewhere. The delta in abilities expands and the impact of including all of these kids at practice would just make practice less productive for summer swimmers who are using summer practice as their primary practice. Kids do specialize as they get older. It changes the way summer swimming fits into their lives but at our pool it’s a beloved part of the lives for kids who specialize at swimming and are college-bound swimmers and for those that just do it for fun. Our reps are ever-conscious to focus on the fun and inclusion not just the competition.

My child swims 5 days a week and takes private lessons in the winter and summer is 5 days plus a private lesson and sometimes swims other days as well.. Mine is very serious and younger. But, I'm not looking for a college scholarship and think as parents as long as we can afford to pay for college we will. That's the big difference. You are looking for a scholorship and only care about the competition as things like paying for college aren't your priority.

Practice should be required to be part of the team.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. When your kids get older, you will learn that those kids (who you wrongly think are mine) whose parents are motivated by scholarships . . . they quit or are no longer standout swimmers by junior year in HS. Kids have to be self-motivated to become an elite swimmer beyond the age of 12. It’s an unforgiving, grueling sport. You can’t make a 16 year old go to swim practice and work hard. They set their alarm at 4:15, drive themselves, work their ass off, then go to school, then go back to the pool, then home for homework (repeat). Tthey only do that if they want to. We too saved for college and want our college-bound swimmer to pick the best college for her. That means it has the academic major she wants and she can swim and contribute to the team. That may be a division III school or Ivy League school where there is no scholarship money. BTW, she could go to UMD cheaper than any of the school’s she is considering to swim at because they are all OOS or private with partial scholarships only (if any after the COVID-19 damage to universities is accounted for).

Actually you can force kids to do it... I'm assuming you are one fo those parents that didn't save for college, could have saved and have plenty of money and are looking for any reason not to pay for college. I don't care if my child is on the elite team or not and I wouldn't want mine swimming in college as they are there for academics. My child is younger and we have enough saved for state school, room and board plus some for graduate school. Mine swim for fun. Yours swim to get college paid for. I feel bad for yours.

You clearly missed the point and have reading comprehension problems. You can take a kid to practice but you can't make them WORK HARD once they are there. You need to land your helicopter! And you're wrong about my savings too (college is saved, house and cars are all paid for in full and we live modestly but have plenty of cash).

I know several kids who are forced to do it. The parents threaten and take away electronics and other stuff. We heard a kid threatened at divisions that he'd lose his iPad for a few weeks if he lost. Thankfully the group own. I don't have a helicopter. My child is swimming out of choice and we have college paid for. I don't want mine swimming in college as it takes too much time vs. other interests. Its never going to be a life long career.

That is a strange way of thinking about things. Many activities that young people do are not related to their eventual career. Swimming in college taught me so many things: discipline, time management, pushing through pain in a way I had never done in high school (I swam more yardage in high school, but in college we did way more in the weight room which totally broke my body down), and just general mental toughness. I learned to keep working hard even if it didn't lead to success in the short term, and how to handle others around me having success with grace even when I was not. I am drawing on those reserves during this current situation. I am also in better physical shape for life, because since then I have just had to try to maintain some of my cardiovascular fitness and muscle mass vs. starting from scratch. If you child doesn't want to swim in college, that's fine. But if they do and you are trying to hold them back from doing it, you are a terrible parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post makes me so glad my kids don't swim anymore! I remember the vitriol of the summer parents v. the year round parents and once a person literally said to me "Well my daughter is really good at butterfly, but no one knows because of your kid" My kid wasn't even a butterflier, fwiw. I guess they stayed up nights wishing we'd move or something :/

It gets very dangerous to have that many kids in a pool who are so uneven in terms of speeds, for those who want the year rounders there. Also, you'll complain the first time they hit each other at full velocity and hurt a finger.

Most pools divide up the kids per speed and skill so your post makes no sense saying its dangerous.

I have worried about this (smashed fingers) both in summer and club swimming. Some kids want to be lane leader, even if it means leaving before 5 seconds have passed since the prior swimmer departed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just told my A meet summer swimming only 10 year old and she was sad but not surprised. I hope these tough conversations go well for others too. Kids are showing remarkable resilience in the face of sadness.

This is a weird response. What difference does it make if she's an A meet swimmer. Nobody cares.

The parent cares. A meet/ B meet hierarchy is important.

If her non year round swimmer goes to a meets, she’ll likely go every year bc of the type of team she has or the team’s age group makeup. The child also doesn’t swim year round. That means that it could easily not be that big of a deal to a child like this. A child who loves swimming, swims year round, would be at the top of his/her age group this year, loves summer swim friends, has a good shot at all stars, etc would be more upset. So saying that information about her kid tells the reader to take her kid’s reaction with a grain of salt.

I'm still not following. The PP seemed to go out of her way to bring up that her DD was an A swimmer like anyone on this board really cared. All we wanted was summer swim to take place...no one on this board cares about this one child who swims A meets. That's not why we're all here.

My year round team swimmer is not a fast swimmer but does it for the enjoyment and exercise. I feel bad for the kids whose parents push and make such a big deal out of winning and meets as it takes the fun out of it. Summer team is for fun. Most of the All starts and divisional kids aren't even participating on the summer teams except meets which should not be allowed. The teams use them for the wins and they use the teams for the meets. Its pretty sad. They should be required to practice at least 3 days a week if they want to go to meets and actually be a part of the team.

I think you are wrong about the elite swimmers not participating except for meets. They may not be at many practices, but mine are at every "dine out", they go to the B meets to support the team even if they are not swimming, they volunteer to help with the pre-team, they are at the banquet, and every Friday night spirit events!. And they usually come from the club practice to summer practice a couple of days a week just to see their friends. Swim practice doesn't work well with outliers in terms of speed. HS teams function the same way with the faster club swimmers doing their club practice. You can't run a practice that challenges three very fast kids unless you give them their own lane (and honesly, you'd probably complain if that was done at summer league practices)

Curious, . . . are you a stroke and turn official, a team rep, a referree, head timer, a starter, automation operator? Parents of non-year around swimmers can certainly do those jobs (and are often asked to), but in my experience they rarely do. They rely on the parents of yea-round swimmers, who draw on their knowledge of the sport, to make the summer league run smoothly. So if you want to do summer swimming without them, you'd need to be prepared to step it up in a mjor way.

We are year round swimmers. Why do you assume we aren't? People like you are exhausting. We let our kids enjoy swimming. You should try it. Yes, we are certified in several areas and my spouse does every A and B meet when they let us. We would love to be team rep or more involved but we have a team parent whose kids are no longer on the team refuse to let others help which is a huge issue on the team. We do as much as we are allowed and are at every meet, A and B and do anything ask, even last minute.

And, you proved the point, they should be made to do practices or they should not be allowed to compete. They aren't part of the team if they are not practicing with the team. You want your kids treated as more special. Our team gives lanes to the top A kids (low A kids don't get it) only so there are tons of kids in all the lanes and a few kids get the two A meet kid lanes.

P.S. your kids aren't actually helping at pre-team. Usually they are goofing off and hanging out together.

I’m glad you are involved. I find it strange that you resent some kids being on the team. Our team has many elite swimmers and many that aren’t. They all have fun together. It sounds like your pool has some issues, perhaps you should look into switching teams. We have two types of kids that don’t come to practices regularly (1) kids of working parents who might do their club practice early in the am and then go to camp and (2) 14 and ups who are swimming at a high level and will show up inconsistently, but they are also often the leaders and junior coaches. We are happy to have them all be a part of our community. It sounds like to me you are just a bit bitter your kid doesn’t get to swim at Divisionals.

One or both of us is at every practice and every meet. You make lots of assumptions. We've made it to divisional. My child who swims has multiple interests so divisionals is great but not a priority for that child vs. the other activity. If ours cannot come to day practices they go to night so there really is no excuse not to do practices when there are both day and night practices. We switch between day and night but go 5 days a week. Older kids take the bus, bike or walk or get rides. You sound pretty judgmental and I don't get parents like you but I do agree with you about our team.

Well, practice attendace is not required, so you should perhaps stop resenting kids who aren’t breaking any rules and just focus on whether you want to be a part of your team or not. If you are at practice every day, your child is likely a 10 and under (I certainly hope so anyway). Part of your assumptions just don’t make sense for older swimmers who are training elsewhere. The delta in abilities expands and the impact of including all of these kids at practice would just make practice less productive for summer swimmers who are using summer practice as their primary practice. Kids do specialize as they get older. It changes the way summer swimming fits into their lives but at our pool it’s a beloved part of the lives for kids who specialize at swimming and are college-bound swimmers and for those that just do it for fun. Our reps are ever-conscious to focus on the fun and inclusion not just the competition.

My child swims 5 days a week and takes private lessons in the winter and summer is 5 days plus a private lesson and sometimes swims other days as well.. Mine is very serious and younger. But, I'm not looking for a college scholarship and think as parents as long as we can afford to pay for college we will. That's the big difference. You are looking for a scholorship and only care about the competition as things like paying for college aren't your priority.

Practice should be required to be part of the team.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. When your kids get older, you will learn that those kids (who you wrongly think are mine) whose parents are motivated by scholarships . . . they quit or are no longer standout swimmers by junior year in HS. Kids have to be self-motivated to become an elite swimmer beyond the age of 12. It’s an unforgiving, grueling sport. You can’t make a 16 year old go to swim practice and work hard. They set their alarm at 4:15, drive themselves, work their ass off, then go to school, then go back to the pool, then home for homework (repeat). Tthey only do that if they want to. We too saved for college and want our college-bound swimmer to pick the best college for her. That means it has the academic major she wants and she can swim and contribute to the team. That may be a division III school or Ivy League school where there is no scholarship money. BTW, she could go to UMD cheaper than any of the school’s she is considering to swim at because they are all OOS or private with partial scholarships only (if any after the COVID-19 damage to universities is accounted for).

Actually you can force kids to do it... I'm assuming you are one fo those parents that didn't save for college, could have saved and have plenty of money and are looking for any reason not to pay for college. I don't care if my child is on the elite team or not and I wouldn't want mine swimming in college as they are there for academics. My child is younger and we have enough saved for state school, room and board plus some for graduate school. Mine swim for fun. Yours swim to get college paid for. I feel bad for yours.

You clearly missed the point and have reading comprehension problems. You can take a kid to practice but you can't make them WORK HARD once they are there. You need to land your helicopter! And you're wrong about my savings too (college is saved, house and cars are all paid for in full and we live modestly but have plenty of cash).

I know several kids who are forced to do it. The parents threaten and take away electronics and other stuff. We heard a kid threatened at divisions that he'd lose his iPad for a few weeks if he lost. Thankfully the group own. I don't have a helicopter. My child is swimming out of choice and we have college paid for. I don't want mine swimming in college as it takes too much time vs. other interests. Its never going to be a life long career.

That is a strange way of thinking about things. Many activities that young people do are not related to their eventual career. Swimming in college taught me so many things: discipline, time management, pushing through pain in a way I had never done in high school (I swam more yardage in high school, but in college we did way more in the weight room which totally broke my body down), and just general mental toughness. I learned to keep working hard even if it didn't lead to success in the short term, and how to handle others around me having success with grace even when I was not. I am drawing on those reserves during this current situation. I am also in better physical shape for life, because since then I have just had to try to maintain some of my cardiovascular fitness and muscle mass vs. starting from scratch. If you child doesn't want to swim in college, that's fine. But if they do and you are trying to hold them back from doing it, you are a terrible parent.

Your kids swim because you enjoy it and push it. I am a very good parent but my child has other interests that they will continue and it’s not realistic to do both.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This post makes me so glad my kids don't swim anymore! I remember the vitriol of the summer parents v. the year round parents and once a person literally said to me "Well my daughter is really good at butterfly, but no one knows because of your kid" My kid wasn't even a butterflier, fwiw. I guess they stayed up nights wishing we'd move or something :/

It gets very dangerous to have that many kids in a pool who are so uneven in terms of speeds, for those who want the year rounders there. Also, you'll complain the first time they hit each other at full velocity and hurt a finger.

Most pools divide up the kids per speed and skill so your post makes no sense saying its dangerous.

I have worried about this (smashed fingers) both in summer and club swimming. Some kids want to be lane leader, even if it means leaving before 5 seconds have passed since the prior swimmer departed.

I’ve never seen smashed fingers. I have seen injuries from accidents and kids hitting each other as they are close and fighting over who goes first. Those are valid concerns of keeping the kids at a distance. We have 70+ kids at each practice and a few coaches. It’s a huge issue especially with bad coaches.

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Anonymous wrote:Just told my A meet summer swimming only 10 year old and she was sad but not surprised. I hope these tough conversations go well for others too. Kids are showing remarkable resilience in the face of sadness.

This is a weird response. What difference does it make if she's an A meet swimmer. Nobody cares.

The parent cares. A meet/ B meet hierarchy is important.

If her non year round swimmer goes to a meets, she’ll likely go every year bc of the type of team she has or the team’s age group makeup. The child also doesn’t swim year round. That means that it could easily not be that big of a deal to a child like this. A child who loves swimming, swims year round, would be at the top of his/her age group this year, loves summer swim friends, has a good shot at all stars, etc would be more upset. So saying that information about her kid tells the reader to take her kid’s reaction with a grain of salt.

I'm still not following. The PP seemed to go out of her way to bring up that her DD was an A swimmer like anyone on this board really cared. All we wanted was summer swim to take place...no one on this board cares about this one child who swims A meets. That's not why we're all here.

My year round team swimmer is not a fast swimmer but does it for the enjoyment and exercise. I feel bad for the kids whose parents push and make such a big deal out of winning and meets as it takes the fun out of it. Summer team is for fun. Most of the All starts and divisional kids aren't even participating on the summer teams except meets which should not be allowed. The teams use them for the wins and they use the teams for the meets. Its pretty sad. They should be required to practice at least 3 days a week if they want to go to meets and actually be a part of the team.

I think you are wrong about the elite swimmers not participating except for meets. They may not be at many practices, but mine are at every "dine out", they go to the B meets to support the team even if they are not swimming, they volunteer to help with the pre-team, they are at the banquet, and every Friday night spirit events!. And they usually come from the club practice to summer practice a couple of days a week just to see their friends. Swim practice doesn't work well with outliers in terms of speed. HS teams function the same way with the faster club swimmers doing their club practice. You can't run a practice that challenges three very fast kids unless you give them their own lane (and honesly, you'd probably complain if that was done at summer league practices)

Curious, . . . are you a stroke and turn official, a team rep, a referree, head timer, a starter, automation operator? Parents of non-year around swimmers can certainly do those jobs (and are often asked to), but in my experience they rarely do. They rely on the parents of yea-round swimmers, who draw on their knowledge of the sport, to make the summer league run smoothly. So if you want to do summer swimming without them, you'd need to be prepared to step it up in a mjor way.

We are year round swimmers. Why do you assume we aren't? People like you are exhausting. We let our kids enjoy swimming. You should try it. Yes, we are certified in several areas and my spouse does every A and B meet when they let us. We would love to be team rep or more involved but we have a team parent whose kids are no longer on the team refuse to let others help which is a huge issue on the team. We do as much as we are allowed and are at every meet, A and B and do anything ask, even last minute.

And, you proved the point, they should be made to do practices or they should not be allowed to compete. They aren't part of the team if they are not practicing with the team. You want your kids treated as more special. Our team gives lanes to the top A kids (low A kids don't get it) only so there are tons of kids in all the lanes and a few kids get the two A meet kid lanes.

P.S. your kids aren't actually helping at pre-team. Usually they are goofing off and hanging out together.

I’m glad you are involved. I find it strange that you resent some kids being on the team. Our team has many elite swimmers and many that aren’t. They all have fun together. It sounds like your pool has some issues, perhaps you should look into switching teams. We have two types of kids that don’t come to practices regularly (1) kids of working parents who might do their club practice early in the am and then go to camp and (2) 14 and ups who are swimming at a high level and will show up inconsistently, but they are also often the leaders and junior coaches. We are happy to have them all be a part of our community. It sounds like to me you are just a bit bitter your kid doesn’t get to swim at Divisionals.

One or both of us is at every practice and every meet. You make lots of assumptions. We've made it to divisional. My child who swims has multiple interests so divisionals is great but not a priority for that child vs. the other activity. If ours cannot come to day practices they go to night so there really is no excuse not to do practices when there are both day and night practices. We switch between day and night but go 5 days a week. Older kids take the bus, bike or walk or get rides. You sound pretty judgmental and I don't get parents like you but I do agree with you about our team.

Well, practice attendace is not required, so you should perhaps stop resenting kids who aren’t breaking any rules and just focus on whether you want to be a part of your team or not. If you are at practice every day, your child is likely a 10 and under (I certainly hope so anyway). Part of your assumptions just don’t make sense for older swimmers who are training elsewhere. The delta in abilities expands and the impact of including all of these kids at practice would just make practice less productive for summer swimmers who are using summer practice as their primary practice. Kids do specialize as they get older. It changes the way summer swimming fits into their lives but at our pool it’s a beloved part of the lives for kids who specialize at swimming and are college-bound swimmers and for those that just do it for fun. Our reps are ever-conscious to focus on the fun and inclusion not just the competition.

My child swims 5 days a week and takes private lessons in the winter and summer is 5 days plus a private lesson and sometimes swims other days as well.. Mine is very serious and younger. But, I'm not looking for a college scholarship and think as parents as long as we can afford to pay for college we will. That's the big difference. You are looking for a scholorship and only care about the competition as things like paying for college aren't your priority.

Practice should be required to be part of the team.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. When your kids get older, you will learn that those kids (who you wrongly think are mine) whose parents are motivated by scholarships . . . they quit or are no longer standout swimmers by junior year in HS. Kids have to be self-motivated to become an elite swimmer beyond the age of 12. It’s an unforgiving, grueling sport. You can’t make a 16 year old go to swim practice and work hard. They set their alarm at 4:15, drive themselves, work their ass off, then go to school, then go back to the pool, then home for homework (repeat). Tthey only do that if they want to. We too saved for college and want our college-bound swimmer to pick the best college for her. That means it has the academic major she wants and she can swim and contribute to the team. That may be a division III school or Ivy League school where there is no scholarship money. BTW, she could go to UMD cheaper than any of the school’s she is considering to swim at because they are all OOS or private with partial scholarships only (if any after the COVID-19 damage to universities is accounted for).

Actually you can force kids to do it... I'm assuming you are one fo those parents that didn't save for college, could have saved and have plenty of money and are looking for any reason not to pay for college. I don't care if my child is on the elite team or not and I wouldn't want mine swimming in college as they are there for academics. My child is younger and we have enough saved for state school, room and board plus some for graduate school. Mine swim for fun. Yours swim to get college paid for. I feel bad for yours.

You clearly missed the point and have reading comprehension problems. You can take a kid to practice but you can't make them WORK HARD once they are there. You need to land your helicopter! And you're wrong about my savings too (college is saved, house and cars are all paid for in full and we live modestly but have plenty of cash).

I know several kids who are forced to do it. The parents threaten and take away electronics and other stuff. We heard a kid threatened at divisions that he'd lose his iPad for a few weeks if he lost. Thankfully the group own. I don't have a helicopter. My child is swimming out of choice and we have college paid for. I don't want mine swimming in college as it takes too much time vs. other interests. Its never going to be a life long career.

That is a strange way of thinking about things. Many activities that young people do are not related to their eventual career. Swimming in college taught me so many things: discipline, time management, pushing through pain in a way I had never done in high school (I swam more yardage in high school, but in college we did way more in the weight room which totally broke my body down), and just general mental toughness. I learned to keep working hard even if it didn't lead to success in the short term, and how to handle others around me having success with grace even when I was not. I am drawing on those reserves during this current situation. I am also in better physical shape for life, because since then I have just had to try to maintain some of my cardiovascular fitness and muscle mass vs. starting from scratch. If you child doesn't want to swim in college, that's fine. But if they do and you are trying to hold them back from doing it, you are a terrible parent.

Your kids swim because you enjoy it and push it. I am a very good parent but my child has other interests that they will continue and it’s not realistic to do both.

I'm not the poster you were responding to before (should have said that). My kids aren't old enough to swim yet. My oldest was going to do his first year on the swim team this summer which obviously isn't happening. I have no expectation that he will enjoy it as much as I did. I have mixed feelings about being a "swim parent" due to the early mornings and time commitment but will support him if that's what interests him. If your child is swimming because they like it and you tell them they have to stop simply because "it's not realistic", that is bad parenting. If it's an issue of not having time to do everything, then tell them to pick one or two things and let swimming be one of them if that's what they choose.Your job as a parent is to support your child's interests whatever they may be. Pushing them toward one path or another based on your perception of what would be better for their career is wrong.

[Anonymous]

The example of a kid being threatened with losing their IPad illustrates how little you know about teens swimming at a high level That kind of motivation will not motivate you to work hard for a 2:00 practice 6 days a week, which scholarship-bound HS swimmers have to do. If it's not your kids thing, that is fine. But, there is value in it for others and it's often not about the money. Please put a calendar item on your calendar to revisit this posts in 6 years. I'm pretty sure you will laugh at yourself and your understanding of parenting teens. If a kid being too motivated at their sport such that it annoys the summer swim team parents is your biggest concern, you will have done a pretty good job. And BTW part of the value of summer swim team is the opportunity to socialize with your peers and with kids of other ages. The teens socializing with each other is not a bad thing. Believe it or not, the entire team does not revolve around your 10 year old.

[Anonymous]

What is happening with MCSL? Are they making a decision this week? Given Hogan’s latest (or lack of) guidance, do they even think a season is possible at this point?