Summer Swim Canceled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster:

Practice isn’t required and swim is a fair sport because it is purely based on times. Your kid makes the best times, he makes the a meets, relays, divisionals, IMs, all stars. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t. It’s not about how much mom does, how much a coach likes you or you family donates. It’s purely about times. We really enjoy the social aspect of summer swim but some kids don’t. That doesn’t take away from the fact that if their kids are better swimmers, their kids should take the best spots away from mine. This is true regardless if mine work harder, attend more events, are better sports, etc. If theirs perform better at time trials or meets, theirs “win.”

Not sure why some of you feel differently. It’s uniform across all pools. It’s not a warm fuzzy feeling reason. It’s based on a solid reason.

Part of being on the team is practicing. Otherwise you aren't on the team and just doing it to win/meets and no that's not fair to the other kids who are participating on the team, showing up, etc. If they are practicing with their winter team, then they should stick with that and not take a spot on the summer team, especially on teams where other kids cannot get on the team as those kids are holding spots.

Those who make the team rules are the ones who decide these things. Why you think you are in a position to tell other families that they shouldn’t take a spot on a team isn’t clear. Kids “should do” what the coaches say it’s ok to do.

This. If a kid practice 5 days a week but goes to no social events, should he be on the team v someone who attends all social events? What about someone who wins everything but is really encouraging and a mentor to younger swimmers v someone who is present at practices but a bully and rude to others?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just told my A meet summer swimming only 10 year old and she was sad but not surprised. I hope these tough conversations go well for others too. Kids are showing remarkable resilience in the face of sadness.

This is a weird response. What difference does it make if she's an A meet swimmer. Nobody cares.

The parent cares. A meet/ B meet hierarchy is important.

If her non year round swimmer goes to a meets, she’ll likely go every year bc of the type of team she has or the team’s age group makeup. The child also doesn’t swim year round. That means that it could easily not be that big of a deal to a child like this. A child who loves swimming, swims year round, would be at the top of his/her age group this year, loves summer swim friends, has a good shot at all stars, etc would be more upset. So saying that information about her kid tells the reader to take her kid’s reaction with a grain of salt.

I'm still not following. The PP seemed to go out of her way to bring up that her DD was an A swimmer like anyone on this board really cared. All we wanted was summer swim to take place...no one on this board cares about this one child who swims A meets. That's not why we're all here.

My year round team swimmer is not a fast swimmer but does it for the enjoyment and exercise. I feel bad for the kids whose parents push and make such a big deal out of winning and meets as it takes the fun out of it. Summer team is for fun. Most of the All starts and divisional kids aren't even participating on the summer teams except meets which should not be allowed. The teams use them for the wins and they use the teams for the meets. Its pretty sad. They should be required to practice at least 3 days a week if they want to go to meets and actually be a part of the team.

I think you are wrong about the elite swimmers not participating except for meets. They may not be at many practices, but mine are at every "dine out", they go to the B meets to support the team even if they are not swimming, they volunteer to help with the pre-team, they are at the banquet, and every Friday night spirit events!. And they usually come from the club practice to summer practice a couple of days a week just to see their friends. Swim practice doesn't work well with outliers in terms of speed. HS teams function the same way with the faster club swimmers doing their club practice. You can't run a practice that challenges three very fast kids unless you give them their own lane (and honesly, you'd probably complain if that was done at summer league practices)

Curious, . . . are you a stroke and turn official, a team rep, a referree, head timer, a starter, automation operator? Parents of non-year around swimmers can certainly do those jobs (and are often asked to), but in my experience they rarely do. They rely on the parents of yea-round swimmers, who draw on their knowledge of the sport, to make the summer league run smoothly. So if you want to do summer swimming without them, you'd need to be prepared to step it up in a mjor way.

We are year round swimmers. Why do you assume we aren't? People like you are exhausting. We let our kids enjoy swimming. You should try it. Yes, we are certified in several areas and my spouse does every A and B meet when they let us. We would love to be team rep or more involved but we have a team parent whose kids are no longer on the team refuse to let others help which is a huge issue on the team. We do as much as we are allowed and are at every meet, A and B and do anything ask, even last minute.

And, you proved the point, they should be made to do practices or they should not be allowed to compete. They aren't part of the team if they are not practicing with the team. You want your kids treated as more special. Our team gives lanes to the top A kids (low A kids don't get it) only so there are tons of kids in all the lanes and a few kids get the two A meet kid lanes.

P.S. your kids aren't actually helping at pre-team. Usually they are goofing off and hanging out together.

I’m glad you are involved. I find it strange that you resent some kids being on the team. Our team has many elite swimmers and many that aren’t. They all have fun together. It sounds like your pool has some issues, perhaps you should look into switching teams. We have two types of kids that don’t come to practices regularly (1) kids of working parents who might do their club practice early in the am and then go to camp and (2) 14 and ups who are swimming at a high level and will show up inconsistently, but they are also often the leaders and junior coaches. We are happy to have them all be a part of our community. It sounds like to me you are just a bit bitter your kid doesn’t get to swim at Divisionals.

One or both of us is at every practice and every meet. You make lots of assumptions. We've made it to divisional. My child who swims has multiple interests so divisionals is great but not a priority for that child vs. the other activity. If ours cannot come to day practices they go to night so there really is no excuse not to do practices when there are both day and night practices. We switch between day and night but go 5 days a week. Older kids take the bus, bike or walk or get rides. You sound pretty judgmental and I don't get parents like you but I do agree with you about our team.

Well, practice attendace is not required, so you should perhaps stop resenting kids who aren’t breaking any rules and just focus on whether you want to be a part of your team or not. If you are at practice every day, your child is likely a 10 and under (I certainly hope so anyway). Part of your assumptions just don’t make sense for older swimmers who are training elsewhere. The delta in abilities expands and the impact of including all of these kids at practice would just make practice less productive for summer swimmers who are using summer practice as their primary practice. Kids do specialize as they get older. It changes the way summer swimming fits into their lives but at our pool it’s a beloved part of the lives for kids who specialize at swimming and are college-bound swimmers and for those that just do it for fun. Our reps are ever-conscious to focus on the fun and inclusion not just the competition.

My child swims 5 days a week and takes private lessons in the winter and summer is 5 days plus a private lesson and sometimes swims other days as well.. Mine is very serious and younger. But, I'm not looking for a college scholarship and think as parents as long as we can afford to pay for college we will. That's the big difference. You are looking for a scholorship and only care about the competition as things like paying for college aren't your priority.

Practice should be required to be part of the team.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. When your kids get older, you will learn that those kids (who you wrongly think are mine) whose parents are motivated by scholarships . . . they quit or are no longer standout swimmers by junior year in HS. Kids have to be self-motivated to become an elite swimmer beyond the age of 12. It’s an unforgiving, grueling sport. You can’t make a 16 year old go to swim practice and work hard. They set their alarm at 4:15, drive themselves, work their ass off, then go to school, then go back to the pool, then home for homework (repeat). Tthey only do that if they want to. We too saved for college and want our college-bound swimmer to pick the best college for her. That means it has the academic major she wants and she can swim and contribute to the team. That may be a division III school or Ivy League school where there is no scholarship money. BTW, she could go to UMD cheaper than any of the school’s she is considering to swim at because they are all OOS or private with partial scholarships only (if any after the COVID-19 damage to universities is accounted for).

That’s all she able except how do you know that kids whose parents are scholarship motivated are necessarily not motivated themselves ? and all of them would “quit and longer standout swimmers in high school”?

Those things can certainly align, but the PP seemed to be talking about parents that "only care about scholarships and competition." Most parents aren't doing this, most are supporting their kids' interest. I do think the overbearing swim parents are more prevalent in the younger ages. A lot of this sorts itself out by 13-14, at which time kids have to take the lead and parents begin to realize this and check themselves a bit. The PP who is so worried about others just needs to do things her way and let it all shake out. Stop worrying about whether the kids beating your kid come to summer practice or not. My point is, if she's observing some very toxic parent/swimmer relationships, that too will sort itself out. I swam in college and observed similar pattern of burnout of kids who have overbearing swim parents then as during my DD's career. A lot of the fastest 10&Us do quit or ratchet back their swimming dreams. Most parents accept this as things change for their kids. I actually admire one family from our summer team whose parents "were the worst" when their kid was 8 because they were so clearly pushing a kid to break records and the kid had minimal interest. It was painful to watch. But now in HS, kid is swimming at a lower level than she once did and the parents have adjusted their outlook appropriately. Everyone is happy and content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NVSL swim parent here. Any chance a team might want to run swim practices for maybe 4 weeks this summer. Give the swimmers an hour of lap swimming, friendly competition, relay games. Kid has to be mature enough to follow the rules. I could see maybe half of our usual 150 swimmers wanting to do this. So 8 and unders, 9 to 12, and teens practice separately. 6 lanes, say 25 kids at each practice. I would pay for that.

They could have more practices so they limit kids to 4-6 a lane instead of 10-12. They don't need the meets or can just do their own meets. Also, for us, set up the pool to do 50's for the older kids so kids are more spread out.

I would not plan on that. Its very likely you have an insurance policy thru the league. That will not be covering unofficial meets in this case. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NVSL swim parent here. Any chance a team might want to run swim practices for maybe 4 weeks this summer. Give the swimmers an hour of lap swimming, friendly competition, relay games. Kid has to be mature enough to follow the rules. I could see maybe half of our usual 150 swimmers wanting to do this. So 8 and unders, 9 to 12, and teens practice separately. 6 lanes, say 25 kids at each practice. I would pay for that.

They could have more practices so they limit kids to 4-6 a lane instead of 10-12. They don't need the meets or can just do their own meets. Also, for us, set up the pool to do 50's for the older kids so kids are more spread out.

I would not plan on that. Its very likely you have an insurance policy thru the league. That will not be covering unofficial meets in this case. Good luck.

League insurance is tertiary. The club should have its own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NVSL swim parent here. Any chance a team might want to run swim practices for maybe 4 weeks this summer. Give the swimmers an hour of lap swimming, friendly competition, relay games. Kid has to be mature enough to follow the rules. I could see maybe half of our usual 150 swimmers wanting to do this. So 8 and unders, 9 to 12, and teens practice separately. 6 lanes, say 25 kids at each practice. I would pay for that.

They could have more practices so they limit kids to 4-6 a lane instead of 10-12. They don't need the meets or can just do their own meets. Also, for us, set up the pool to do 50's for the older kids so kids are more spread out.

I would not plan on that. Its very likely you have an insurance policy thru the league. That will not be covering unofficial meets in this case. Good luck.

What if more than half the team want to do it? What is more than half the age groups want to participate? Are there coaches there also? Teen coaches? What if you’re mid season and a coach becomes sick? Who is going to keep the kids the appropriate distance apart? Mature or not, this will be extremely difficult, esp for 11 and under.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just told my A meet summer swimming only 10 year old and she was sad but not surprised. I hope these tough conversations go well for others too. Kids are showing remarkable resilience in the face of sadness.

I hate NoVa parents - having to put the A meet part in the response. Such an ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suspect that this decision to cancel swim teams has been informed by whatever Northam &Co will be announcing tomorrow (Friday, 2pm) about a lot of different activities/businesses re: guidelines.

I'm sure the pool/swim people were involved in creating those guidelines and they must realize that they can't make it work under those terms.

Stay tuned for the big reveal -- Friday at 2!

Very true - he is allowing pools to open but not for social/play only for straight laps and one person per lap limits (perhaps families can share a lane for an hour?) But that precludes swim teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NVSL swim parent here. Any chance a team might want to run swim practices for maybe 4 weeks this summer. Give the swimmers an hour of lap swimming, friendly competition, relay games. Kid has to be mature enough to follow the rules. I could see maybe half of our usual 150 swimmers wanting to do this. So 8 and unders, 9 to 12, and teens practice separately. 6 lanes, say 25 kids at each practice. I would pay for that.

They could have more practices so they limit kids to 4-6 a lane instead of 10-12. They don't need the meets or can just do their own meets. Also, for us, set up the pool to do 50's for the older kids so kids are more spread out.

Current regulations from Northam restricts outdoor pools to 1 person/per lane

[Anonymous]

So now NOVA won’t be in phase 1 until at least May 29. If we can’t have crowds of 50 until phase 2, the NOVA schedule would put us at mid June or later before we can go to the pool for fun and not just lap swimming?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So now NOVA won’t be in phase 1 until at least May 29. If we can’t have crowds of 50 until phase 2, the NOVA schedule would put us at mid June or later before we can go to the pool for fun and not just lap swimming?

Wishful thinking. How could phase one be 2 weeks? Possible but seems very unlikely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster:

Practice isn’t required and swim is a fair sport because it is purely based on times. Your kid makes the best times, he makes the a meets, relays, divisionals, IMs, all stars. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t. It’s not about how much mom does, how much a coach likes you or you family donates. It’s purely about times. We really enjoy the social aspect of summer swim but some kids don’t. That doesn’t take away from the fact that if their kids are better swimmers, their kids should take the best spots away from mine. This is true regardless if mine work harder, attend more events, are better sports, etc. If theirs perform better at time trials or meets, theirs “win.”

Not sure why some of you feel differently. It’s uniform across all pools. It’s not a warm fuzzy feeling reason. It’s based on a solid reason.

Part of being on the team is practicing. Otherwise you aren't on the team and just doing it to win/meets and no that's not fair to the other kids who are participating on the team, showing up, etc. If they are practicing with their winter team, then they should stick with that and not take a spot on the summer team, especially on teams where other kids cannot get on the team as those kids are holding spots.

Those who make the team rules are the ones who decide these things. Why you think you are in a position to tell other families that they shouldn’t take a spot on a team isn’t clear. Kids “should do” what the coaches say it’s ok to do.

This. If a kid practice 5 days a week but goes to no social events, should he be on the team v someone who attends all social events? What about someone who wins everything but is really encouraging and a mentor to younger swimmers v someone who is present at practices but a bully and rude to others?

Winning should not be everything and those kids shouldn't get treated differently as they win. Summer team is supposed to be fun and inclusive. If kids are not going to practice, they should not be on the team. Most of those teens aren't mentoring younger swimmers and most go to the meets to socialize and not cheer on. Those older teen parents aren't the practices or meets and aren't seeing what is going on. It would be great if the older teens babysat the younger kids while the parents volunteered but they don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just told my A meet summer swimming only 10 year old and she was sad but not surprised. I hope these tough conversations go well for others too. Kids are showing remarkable resilience in the face of sadness.

I hate NoVa parents - having to put the A meet part in the response. Such an ass.

If its a small team, all kids or almost all kids swim both A and B meets so that doesn't mean anything except if your on a team with 200 kids OR there are few kids in that age group, which happens too.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just told my A meet summer swimming only 10 year old and she was sad but not surprised. I hope these tough conversations go well for others too. Kids are showing remarkable resilience in the face of sadness.

This is a weird response. What difference does it make if she's an A meet swimmer. Nobody cares.

The parent cares. A meet/ B meet hierarchy is important.

If her non year round swimmer goes to a meets, she’ll likely go every year bc of the type of team she has or the team’s age group makeup. The child also doesn’t swim year round. That means that it could easily not be that big of a deal to a child like this. A child who loves swimming, swims year round, would be at the top of his/her age group this year, loves summer swim friends, has a good shot at all stars, etc would be more upset. So saying that information about her kid tells the reader to take her kid’s reaction with a grain of salt.

I'm still not following. The PP seemed to go out of her way to bring up that her DD was an A swimmer like anyone on this board really cared. All we wanted was summer swim to take place...no one on this board cares about this one child who swims A meets. That's not why we're all here.

My year round team swimmer is not a fast swimmer but does it for the enjoyment and exercise. I feel bad for the kids whose parents push and make such a big deal out of winning and meets as it takes the fun out of it. Summer team is for fun. Most of the All starts and divisional kids aren't even participating on the summer teams except meets which should not be allowed. The teams use them for the wins and they use the teams for the meets. Its pretty sad. They should be required to practice at least 3 days a week if they want to go to meets and actually be a part of the team.

I think you are wrong about the elite swimmers not participating except for meets. They may not be at many practices, but mine are at every "dine out", they go to the B meets to support the team even if they are not swimming, they volunteer to help with the pre-team, they are at the banquet, and every Friday night spirit events!. And they usually come from the club practice to summer practice a couple of days a week just to see their friends. Swim practice doesn't work well with outliers in terms of speed. HS teams function the same way with the faster club swimmers doing their club practice. You can't run a practice that challenges three very fast kids unless you give them their own lane (and honesly, you'd probably complain if that was done at summer league practices)

Curious, . . . are you a stroke and turn official, a team rep, a referree, head timer, a starter, automation operator? Parents of non-year around swimmers can certainly do those jobs (and are often asked to), but in my experience they rarely do. They rely on the parents of yea-round swimmers, who draw on their knowledge of the sport, to make the summer league run smoothly. So if you want to do summer swimming without them, you'd need to be prepared to step it up in a mjor way.

We are year round swimmers. Why do you assume we aren't? People like you are exhausting. We let our kids enjoy swimming. You should try it. Yes, we are certified in several areas and my spouse does every A and B meet when they let us. We would love to be team rep or more involved but we have a team parent whose kids are no longer on the team refuse to let others help which is a huge issue on the team. We do as much as we are allowed and are at every meet, A and B and do anything ask, even last minute.

And, you proved the point, they should be made to do practices or they should not be allowed to compete. They aren't part of the team if they are not practicing with the team. You want your kids treated as more special. Our team gives lanes to the top A kids (low A kids don't get it) only so there are tons of kids in all the lanes and a few kids get the two A meet kid lanes.

P.S. your kids aren't actually helping at pre-team. Usually they are goofing off and hanging out together.

I’m glad you are involved. I find it strange that you resent some kids being on the team. Our team has many elite swimmers and many that aren’t. They all have fun together. It sounds like your pool has some issues, perhaps you should look into switching teams. We have two types of kids that don’t come to practices regularly (1) kids of working parents who might do their club practice early in the am and then go to camp and (2) 14 and ups who are swimming at a high level and will show up inconsistently, but they are also often the leaders and junior coaches. We are happy to have them all be a part of our community. It sounds like to me you are just a bit bitter your kid doesn’t get to swim at Divisionals.

One or both of us is at every practice and every meet. You make lots of assumptions. We've made it to divisional. My child who swims has multiple interests so divisionals is great but not a priority for that child vs. the other activity. If ours cannot come to day practices they go to night so there really is no excuse not to do practices when there are both day and night practices. We switch between day and night but go 5 days a week. Older kids take the bus, bike or walk or get rides. You sound pretty judgmental and I don't get parents like you but I do agree with you about our team.

Well, practice attendace is not required, so you should perhaps stop resenting kids who aren’t breaking any rules and just focus on whether you want to be a part of your team or not. If you are at practice every day, your child is likely a 10 and under (I certainly hope so anyway). Part of your assumptions just don’t make sense for older swimmers who are training elsewhere. The delta in abilities expands and the impact of including all of these kids at practice would just make practice less productive for summer swimmers who are using summer practice as their primary practice. Kids do specialize as they get older. It changes the way summer swimming fits into their lives but at our pool it’s a beloved part of the lives for kids who specialize at swimming and are college-bound swimmers and for those that just do it for fun. Our reps are ever-conscious to focus on the fun and inclusion not just the competition.

My child swims 5 days a week and takes private lessons in the winter and summer is 5 days plus a private lesson and sometimes swims other days as well.. Mine is very serious and younger. But, I'm not looking for a college scholarship and think as parents as long as we can afford to pay for college we will. That's the big difference. You are looking for a scholorship and only care about the competition as things like paying for college aren't your priority.

Practice should be required to be part of the team.

You’re making a lot of assumptions. When your kids get older, you will learn that those kids (who you wrongly think are mine) whose parents are motivated by scholarships . . . they quit or are no longer standout swimmers by junior year in HS. Kids have to be self-motivated to become an elite swimmer beyond the age of 12. It’s an unforgiving, grueling sport. You can’t make a 16 year old go to swim practice and work hard. They set their alarm at 4:15, drive themselves, work their ass off, then go to school, then go back to the pool, then home for homework (repeat). Tthey only do that if they want to. We too saved for college and want our college-bound swimmer to pick the best college for her. That means it has the academic major she wants and she can swim and contribute to the team. That may be a division III school or Ivy League school where there is no scholarship money. BTW, she could go to UMD cheaper than any of the school’s she is considering to swim at because they are all OOS or private with partial scholarships only (if any after the COVID-19 damage to universities is accounted for).

Actually you can force kids to do it... I'm assuming you are one fo those parents that didn't save for college, could have saved and have plenty of money and are looking for any reason not to pay for college. I don't care if my child is on the elite team or not and I wouldn't want mine swimming in college as they are there for academics. My child is younger and we have enough saved for state school, room and board plus some for graduate school. Mine swim for fun. Yours swim to get college paid for. I feel bad for yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster:

Practice isn’t required and swim is a fair sport because it is purely based on times. Your kid makes the best times, he makes the a meets, relays, divisionals, IMs, all stars. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t. It’s not about how much mom does, how much a coach likes you or you family donates. It’s purely about times. We really enjoy the social aspect of summer swim but some kids don’t. That doesn’t take away from the fact that if their kids are better swimmers, their kids should take the best spots away from mine. This is true regardless if mine work harder, attend more events, are better sports, etc. If theirs perform better at time trials or meets, theirs “win.”

Not sure why some of you feel differently. It’s uniform across all pools. It’s not a warm fuzzy feeling reason. It’s based on a solid reason.

Part of being on the team is practicing. Otherwise you aren't on the team and just doing it to win/meets and no that's not fair to the other kids who are participating on the team, showing up, etc. If they are practicing with their winter team, then they should stick with that and not take a spot on the summer team, especially on teams where other kids cannot get on the team as those kids are holding spots.

Those who make the team rules are the ones who decide these things. Why you think you are in a position to tell other families that they shouldn’t take a spot on a team isn’t clear. Kids “should do” what the coaches say it’s ok to do.

This. If a kid practice 5 days a week but goes to no social events, should he be on the team v someone who attends all social events? What about someone who wins everything but is really encouraging and a mentor to younger swimmers v someone who is present at practices but a bully and rude to others?

Winning should not be everything and those kids shouldn't get treated differently as they win. Summer team is supposed to be fun and inclusive. If kids are not going to practice, they should not be on the team. Most of those teens aren't mentoring younger swimmers and most go to the meets to socialize and not cheer on. Those older teen parents aren't the practices or meets and aren't seeing what is going on. It would be great if the older teens babysat the younger kids while the parents volunteered but they don't.

They are not being treated differently. Practice is not required for anyone. Go on vacation for a week, no problem you are still part of the team. Sleep away camp for a week during the season, no problem. Teens have a work conflict, no problem still in the team. Don’t want to swim when it’s cold and rainy, no problem. . . Still on the team. You need to chill and let people do it their way.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for spoiling the thread people.