Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this matter. Just because it's not currently considered child abuse and illegal doesn't mean that people can't think so and voice their opinions. It doesn't mean they have an obsession, no matter how often you repeat that accusation. It means that they see a common practice as problematic and say so. An anonymous board is a perfect medium to discuss this issue because it's obviously too private a matter to debate in person with anyone but close friends and family.

This is how cultural change happens, and it is already happening with regard to circumcision, as the declining rates over the last years have shown. You can keep raging against it, but nobody who looks at this discussion objectively is going to believe that the people arguing against circumcision are a bunch of crazies and perverts.

No fundamental misuderstanding here. You are welcome to think or feel whatever you want on the matter. I just don't have to care. Arguing with someone that they should care about your opinions is a touch crazy. Move on. Get over it. And if you can't, seek therapy. A good therapist will be able to tell you if its more than your actions that are crazy here.

Thing is, if you don't care so much, please stop posting on threads taht are purporting to ask anti-circ people why they care about this issue. Several anti-circ posters have responded as to why they care. You apparently don't care about their reasons. This suggests to me perhaps you should find a different thread to read that isn't expressly asking for those reasons.

+1. It's also quite significant that the two threads about circumcision that are going on here right now were started by circers who solicited the opinions of non-circers. I haven't seen such a thread started by someone opposing circumcision.

Nope, you just highjack threads that are not asking for pro or con opinions on circumcision but rather a process question about a specific hospital. No one asked for yor opinion there, now did they? Enjoy your high horse lady. When you look down, you'll see its on 3 feet tall and its dragging you through the mud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this matter. Just because it's not currently considered child abuse and illegal doesn't mean that people can't think so and voice their opinions. It doesn't mean they have an obsession, no matter how often you repeat that accusation. It means that they see a common practice as problematic and say so. An anonymous board is a perfect medium to discuss this issue because it's obviously too private a matter to debate in person with anyone but close friends and family.

This is how cultural change happens, and it is already happening with regard to circumcision, as the declining rates over the last years have shown. You can keep raging against it, but nobody who looks at this discussion objectively is going to believe that the people arguing against circumcision are a bunch of crazies and perverts.

No fundamental misuderstanding here. You are welcome to think or feel whatever you want on the matter. I just don't have to care. Arguing with someone that they should care about your opinions is a touch crazy. Move on. Get over it. And if you can't, seek therapy. A good therapist will be able to tell you if its more than your actions that are crazy here.

If you don't care, why on earth are you posting here?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this matter. Just because it's not currently considered child abuse and illegal doesn't mean that people can't think so and voice their opinions. It doesn't mean they have an obsession, no matter how often you repeat that accusation. It means that they see a common practice as problematic and say so. An anonymous board is a perfect medium to discuss this issue because it's obviously too private a matter to debate in person with anyone but close friends and family.

This is how cultural change happens, and it is already happening with regard to circumcision, as the declining rates over the last years have shown. You can keep raging against it, but nobody who looks at this discussion objectively is going to believe that the people arguing against circumcision are a bunch of crazies and perverts.

No fundamental misuderstanding here. You are welcome to think or feel whatever you want on the matter. I just don't have to care. Arguing with someone that they should care about your opinions is a touch crazy. Move on. Get over it. And if you can't, seek therapy. A good therapist will be able to tell you if its more than your actions that are crazy here.

Thing is, if you don't care so much, please stop posting on threads taht are purporting to ask anti-circ people why they care about this issue. Several anti-circ posters have responded as to why they care. You apparently don't care about their reasons. This suggests to me perhaps you should find a different thread to read that isn't expressly asking for those reasons.

+1. It's also quite significant that the two threads about circumcision that are going on here right now were started by circers who solicited the opinions of non-circers. I haven't seen such a thread started by someone opposing circumcision.

Nope, you just highjack threads that are not asking for pro or con opinions on circumcision but rather a process question about a specific hospital. No one asked for yor opinion there, now did they? Enjoy your high horse lady. When you look down, you'll see its on 3 feet tall and its dragging you through the mud.

No need to be nasty. There is a discussion. Not everyone embraces the "militate" theory of circ. Nor are they really swayed by the argument it is the "modern" thing to do/not do. But no matter how much mud you throw, you won't change people's minds. I do not see a title: for pro circ only. maybe you should start that thread.

[Anonymous]

^^ mulitlate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this matter. Just because it's not currently considered child abuse and illegal doesn't mean that people can't think so and voice their opinions. It doesn't mean they have an obsession, no matter how often you repeat that accusation. It means that they see a common practice as problematic and say so. An anonymous board is a perfect medium to discuss this issue because it's obviously too private a matter to debate in person with anyone but close friends and family.

This is how cultural change happens, and it is already happening with regard to circumcision, as the declining rates over the last years have shown. You can keep raging against it, but nobody who looks at this discussion objectively is going to believe that the people arguing against circumcision are a bunch of crazies and perverts.

No fundamental misuderstanding here. You are welcome to think or feel whatever you want on the matter. I just don't have to care. Arguing with someone that they should care about your opinions is a touch crazy. Move on. Get over it. And if you can't, seek therapy. A good therapist will be able to tell you if its more than your actions that are crazy here.

Thing is, if you don't care so much, please stop posting on threads taht are purporting to ask anti-circ people why they care about this issue. Several anti-circ posters have responded as to why they care. You apparently don't care about their reasons. This suggests to me perhaps you should find a different thread to read that isn't expressly asking for those reasons.

+1. It's also quite significant that the two threads about circumcision that are going on here right now were started by circers who solicited the opinions of non-circers. I haven't seen such a thread started by someone opposing circumcision.

Nope, you just highjack threads that are not asking for pro or con opinions on circumcision but rather a process question about a specific hospital. No one asked for yor opinion there, now did they? Enjoy your high horse lady. When you look down, you'll see its on 3 feet tall and its dragging you through the mud.

Yes, such hijacks happen. That's because we actually do care about convincing others not to circumcise, because we think it is wrong to do so. Nothing crazy about that, and again, a function of this anonymous board - debating opinions on parenting issues. I also don't think the OPs of the two current circumcision threads are crazy, I just think they are defensive, which is a consequence of the cultural change that increasingly turns against circumcision.

And it is also significant that the true low-blow insults always come from the defensive circers.

[Anonymous]

Good thing you're here. Saving babies from their parents. Shall I hand you a medal and kiss your feet. I'm sure you've convinced someone you're right about something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good thing you're here. Saving babies from their parents. Shall I hand you a medal and kiss your feet. I'm sure you've convinced someone you're right about something.

When a practice is so ingrained in a culture, somebody has to make parents aware that it is problematic. If these discussions make just one person think a little bit more about what to do or not to do, it has been worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good thing you're here. Saving babies from their parents. Shall I hand you a medal and kiss your feet. I'm sure you've convinced someone you're right about something.

When a practice is so ingrained in a culture, somebody has to make parents aware that it is problematic. If these discussions make just one person think a little bit more about what to do or not to do, it has been worth it.

I beg you, take your case to the news, to the supreme court, to the white house. Put posters out on your lawn. Go door to door spreading the word. Help save these babies!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sheer defensiveness of the people who have chosen to circumcise here is obvious. I can see why it would be really frustrating to feel like you did something that is now being openly criticised and questioned, particularly if you thought you were doing the right thing. I think many people who circ generally just didn't figure out it was the wrong thing to do beforehand, and now are so invested in it being the right thing to do that they feel personally offended when someone else disputes that choice by not making it.

I can think of no other explanation of why they care so much about what someone else did or what someone else thinks.

Pot. Meet kettle. The non-circ mothers are the ones who get in a tizzy about this. No one else.

May I direct your attention to the OP, who started this shit slinging sesh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good thing you're here. Saving babies from their parents. Shall I hand you a medal and kiss your feet. I'm sure you've convinced someone you're right about something.

When a practice is so ingrained in a culture, somebody has to make parents aware that it is problematic. If these discussions make just one person think a little bit more about what to do or not to do, it has been worth it.

I beg you, take your case to the news, to the supreme court, to the white house. Put posters out on your lawn. Go door to door spreading the word. Help save these babies!

Why would I? I didn't say it was a cause I wanted to dedicate my life to. That doesn't mean I can't engage in discussions when they come up, and if these discussions raise awareness of the issues around circumcision, I see them as worthwhile. And even if they don't raise awareness, they are still interesting. That's all.

If these debates bother you, then why are you on this thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good thing you're here. Saving babies from their parents. Shall I hand you a medal and kiss your feet. I'm sure you've convinced someone you're right about something.

Thank you very much. I'm glad you appreciate my efforts.

[Anonymous]

Save the babies! Save the babies!
The mutilators and child abusers are all around us!
Save the babies! Save the babies!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do I care? I care because it is an inhumane practice to do this routinely to newborn boys.

Do I raise it with you? No. But if it comes up, I will not sugarcoat my dismay.

How do I know? Like others have said, when you've had kids you'll realize that at some point you see pretty much all your friends changing diapers in front of you or helping with potty training. Other times, people mention it.

What happens then? I will notice your son's stubby scarred penis and I will flinch. I will try not to do this noticeably for your sake because, what's done is done, and for all I know you may now be better informed and regret it (like my in-laws). But I will feel sympathy for your child, just as I would if you mistreated him in another way.

I will think less of you. I will wonder how you came to that decision, as an educated, smart woman, who I obviously share some values with or we wouldn't be friends. I will feel a little sorry for you too. Because you are either willfully ignorant and have followed what you perceive to be the fashion and had cosmetic surgery on your newborn boy, or you are delusional and have believed the very scant and disputed evidence on the topic without having done any full research into the cultural basis of this.

And then, I feel thankful that I wasn't railroaded into doing this, by a husband, by a doctor, by in-laws or by society. I feel thankful that my boys each have their whole penis and that neither of them will feel bad about this as they get older. I feel bad that at some point, be it 5 or 10, 15 or 20 years from now, when this waning practice is widely believed as archaic you will realize that you made the wrong decision, that you were on the wrong side of this issue and that you will regret it.

There are two things that are incredibly ironic about this post.

The first is that you obviously must take very special care not to befriend anyone Jewish or Muslim - on an off-chance that you might change their son's diaper.

The second is that the centerpiece of your post is all about your feelings, and you describe them as if they matter, as if they make a difference for anything. They don't. They aren't actually a proof of anything. In fact, as you stand there, immersed in your thoughts and feelings, nothing really happens. Who cares what you feel? Who cares what you think?

It is a beautiful example of complete self centered thinking.

You're both nuts. Do you understand how a thread here works? Let me spell it out for you. The OP (that is the original poster) asks a question. In this case it was "Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?" Then people answer that question. Obviously you've gone off topic but the post above was a direct response to that question. Glad I've cleared that up for you.

No. The person quoted above started by saying "Why do I care? I care because it is an inhumane practice to do this routinely to newborn boys." That would have been an answer to the question. The topic starter didn't ask, "How does it make you feel to see an circumcised baby penis?", now did she?

But then the respondent proceeded to include four or five paragraphs describing not WHY she cares, but HOW she cares, and how it makes her feel. Well, that's not WHY, is it? The reason it's funny is because it makes her sound as if she believes her feel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do I care? I care because it is an inhumane practice to do this routinely to newborn boys.

Do I raise it with you? No. But if it comes up, I will not sugarcoat my dismay.

How do I know? Like others have said, when you've had kids you'll realize that at some point you see pretty much all your friends changing diapers in front of you or helping with potty training. Other times, people mention it.

What happens then? I will notice your son's stubby scarred penis and I will flinch. I will try not to do this noticeably for your sake because, what's done is done, and for all I know you may now be better informed and regret it (like my in-laws). But I will feel sympathy for your child, just as I would if you mistreated him in another way.

I will think less of you. I will wonder how you came to that decision, as an educated, smart woman, who I obviously share some values with or we wouldn't be friends. I will feel a little sorry for you too. Because you are either willfully ignorant and have followed what you perceive to be the fashion and had cosmetic surgery on your newborn boy, or you are delusional and have believed the very scant and disputed evidence on the topic without having done any full research into the cultural basis of this.

And then, I feel thankful that I wasn't railroaded into doing this, by a husband, by a doctor, by in-laws or by society. I feel thankful that my boys each have their whole penis and that neither of them will feel bad about this as they get older. I feel bad that at some point, be it 5 or 10, 15 or 20 years from now, when this waning practice is widely believed as archaic you will realize that you made the wrong decision, that you were on the wrong side of this issue and that you will regret it.

There are two things that are incredibly ironic about this post.

The first is that you obviously must take very special care not to befriend anyone Jewish or Muslim - on an off-chance that you might change their son's diaper.

The second is that the centerpiece of your post is all about your feelings, and you describe them as if they matter, as if they make a difference for anything. They don't. They aren't actually a proof of anything. In fact, as you stand there, immersed in your thoughts and feelings, nothing really happens. Who cares what you feel? Who cares what you think?

It is a beautiful example of complete self centered thinking.

You're both nuts. Do you understand how a thread here works? Let me spell it out for you. The OP (that is the original poster) asks a question. In this case it was "Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?" Then people answer that question. Obviously you've gone off topic but the post above was a direct response to that question. Glad I've cleared that up for you.

No. The person quoted above started by saying "Why do I care? I care because it is an inhumane practice to do this routinely to newborn boys." That would have been an answer to the question. The topic starter didn't ask, "How does it make you feel to see an circumcised baby penis?", now did she?

But then the respondent proceeded to include four or five paragraphs describing not WHY she cares, but HOW she cares, and how it makes her feel. Well, that's not WHY, is it? The reason it's funny is because it makes her sound as if she believes her feel

If that's really the best you can do, you've got to admit defeat! If you had any understanding of how a thread works here you'd see that the other points are in response to previous posts. You're either pretty dense or you are just scrabbling for something to argue about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sheer defensiveness of the people who have chosen to circumcise here is obvious. I can see why it would be really frustrating to feel like you did something that is now being openly criticised and questioned, particularly if you thought you were doing the right thing. I think many people who circ generally just didn't figure out it was the wrong thing to do beforehand, and now are so invested in it being the right thing to do that they feel personally offended when someone else disputes that choice by not making it.

I can think of no other explanation of why they care so much about what someone else did or what someone else thinks.

Pot. Meet kettle. The non-circ mothers are the ones who get in a tizzy about this. No one else.

May I direct your attention to the OP, who started this shit slinging sesh?

Listen. I am not defensive at all about our decision to circ. And I put people who have opinions about it in the same group I put non-vaxers. But it is really perplexing that someone else has such an interest/opinion in my child's genitalia. It really skeeves me out. Why care so much about what someone else does? People who cry mulilation and abuse are just whackadoodles, and it is unsettling that these people care so much about my child's private areas.