Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an older child. I have never participated in changing the diapers of nor potty training the children of people I was not related to. When changing my child, I did it to give my child the privacy they deserved and I never looked at another naked child on purpose. Who are all these perverted people looking at other people's children and looking long enough to form an opinion on their genitalia? I think less of those people.

That's fine, for you. But there are many people, myself included, who participate in some kind of baby-sitting swap that may at some point involving changing the diaper of someone else's child. I have changed the diapers of boy children that are not mine in that context, and yes, I have noticed if they are circumcised or not, in the same way I've noticed any other physical characteristic about that child. I'm not going out of my way to stare at the genitalia of someone else's child, but what you're saying is that in that situation, you would think less of me for changing a diaper? Should I allow my friend's son to sit in a poopy diaper until they get back from date night just so that you won't think less of me?

No one questions your participation in babysitting swaps. What people question is your assertion that "most" women have changed other baby boys' diapers and have thus noticed whether they were or were not circumcised. Several posters have already told you that while they have children, they've never changed another baby's diaper or looked at their genitals long enough to notice. So don't make it sound like it's a common experience. It isn't. I have a 2-year old and I've never changed anyone else's diaper. I thus remain blissfully unaware of my friends' son's foreskin status.

Oh, but it is. Your experience is the uncommon one. Maybe you have a secluded lifestyle, not many friends. But most moms who are in moms' groups, have moms friends, have babysat, know can't do these things and not see other babies' having diapers changed.
NP, BTW.

Yes, you belong to a special "friendly" group that gropes around in little boys diapers to check their circ status. Disgusting.

NP here. You don't have any good arguments, and so you keep trying to cast your opponent as a pervert. THAT is disgusting.

[Anonymous]

There is no arguing with a crazy mind. Especially when it is about their son's penis. And everyone else's son, too. Let me check on that...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no arguing with a crazy mind. Especially when it is about their son's penis. And everyone else's son, too. Let me check on that...

Again, another attempt to discredit your opponent, this time by calling them crazy. More proof that you don't have any real arguments in your favor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do I care? I care because it is an inhumane practice to do this routinely to newborn boys.

Do I raise it with you? No. But if it comes up, I will not sugarcoat my dismay.

How do I know? Like others have said, when you've had kids you'll realize that at some point you see pretty much all your friends changing diapers in front of you or helping with potty training. Other times, people mention it.

What happens then? I will notice your son's stubby scarred penis and I will flinch. I will try not to do this noticeably for your sake because, what's done is done, and for all I know you may now be better informed and regret it (like my in-laws). But I will feel sympathy for your child, just as I would if you mistreated him in another way.

I will think less of you. I will wonder how you came to that decision, as an educated, smart woman, who I obviously share some values with or we wouldn't be friends. I will feel a little sorry for you too. Because you are either willfully ignorant and have followed what you perceive to be the fashion and had cosmetic surgery on your newborn boy, or you are delusional and have believed the very scant and disputed evidence on the topic without having done any full research into the cultural basis of this.

And then, I feel thankful that I wasn't railroaded into doing this, by a husband, by a doctor, by in-laws or by society. I feel thankful that my boys each have their whole penis and that neither of them will feel bad about this as they get older. I feel bad that at some point, be it 5 or 10, 15 or 20 years from now, when this waning practice is widely believed as archaic you will realize that you made the wrong decision, that you were on the wrong side of this issue and that you will regret it.

There are two things that are incredibly ironic about this post.

The first is that you obviously must take very special care not to befriend anyone Jewish or Muslim - on an off-chance that you might change their son's diaper.

The second is that the centerpiece of your post is all about your feelings, and you describe them as if they matter, as if they make a difference for anything. They don't. They aren't actually a proof of anything. In fact, as you stand there, immersed in your thoughts and feelings, nothing really happens. Who cares what you feel? Who cares what you think?

It is a beautiful example of complete self centered thinking.

You're both nuts. Do you understand how a thread here works? Let me spell it out for you. The OP (that is the original poster) asks a question. In this case it was "Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?" Then people answer that question. Obviously you've gone off topic but the post above was a direct response to that question. Glad I've cleared that up for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an older child. I have never participated in changing the diapers of nor potty training the children of people I was not related to. When changing my child, I did it to give my child the privacy they deserved and I never looked at another naked child on purpose. Who are all these perverted people looking at other people's children and looking long enough to form an opinion on their genitalia? I think less of those people.

That's fine, for you. But there are many people, myself included, who participate in some kind of baby-sitting swap that may at some point involving changing the diaper of someone else's child. I have changed the diapers of boy children that are not mine in that context, and yes, I have noticed if they are circumcised or not, in the same way I've noticed any other physical characteristic about that child. I'm not going out of my way to stare at the genitalia of someone else's child, but what you're saying is that in that situation, you would think less of me for changing a diaper? Should I allow my friend's son to sit in a poopy diaper until they get back from date night just so that you won't think less of me?

No one questions your participation in babysitting swaps. What people question is your assertion that "most" women have changed other baby boys' diapers and have thus noticed whether they were or were not circumcised. Several posters have already told you that while they have children, they've never changed another baby's diaper or looked at their genitals long enough to notice. So don't make it sound like it's a common experience. It isn't. I have a 2-year old and I've never changed anyone else's diaper. I thus remain blissfully unaware of my friends' son's foreskin status.

Oh, but it is. Your experience is the uncommon one. Maybe you have a secluded lifestyle, not many friends. But most moms who are in moms' groups, have moms friends, have babysat, know can't do these things and not see other babies' having diapers changed.
NP, BTW.

Yes, you belong to a special "friendly" group that gropes around in little boys diapers to check their circ status. Disgusting.

NP here. You don't have any good arguments, and so you keep trying to cast your opponent as a pervert. THAT is disgusting.

Agree. Also suggest that those people who claim that there is something aesthetically wrong with a natural penis are the ones with the perversion. Why else would they be so hung up about how it looks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh, I know my words, but since you don't, here's a definition. (And yes, mutilator is a noun, not an adjective. Yeesh!)

World English Dictionary
mutilate (?mju?t??le?t)

— vb
1. to deprive of a limb, essential part, etc; maim; dismember
2. to mar, expurgate, or damage (a text, book, etc)

[C16: from Latin mutil?re to cut off; related to mutilus maimed]

muti'lation

— n

'mutilative

— adj

'mutilator

— n



Clearly this is a loaded term that doesn't remotely describe circumcision, a simple medical procedure practiced for tens of thousands of years before the drama mamas got involved.

There you go, helped you out by highlighting the relevant parts. You're welcome.

[Anonymous]

The sheer defensiveness of the people who have chosen to circumcise here is obvious. I can see why it would be really frustrating to feel like you did something that is now being openly criticised and questioned, particularly if you thought you were doing the right thing. I think many people who circ generally just didn't figure out it was the wrong thing to do beforehand, and now are so invested in it being the right thing to do that they feel personally offended when someone else disputes that choice by not making it.

I can think of no other explanation of why they care so much about what someone else did or what someone else thinks.

[Anonymous]

Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sheer defensiveness of the people who have chosen to circumcise here is obvious. I can see why it would be really frustrating to feel like you did something that is now being openly criticised and questioned, particularly if you thought you were doing the right thing. I think many people who circ generally just didn't figure out it was the wrong thing to do beforehand, and now are so invested in it being the right thing to do that they feel personally offended when someone else disputes that choice by not making it.

I can think of no other explanation of why they care so much about what someone else did or what someone else thinks.

Pot. Meet kettle. The non-circ mothers are the ones who get in a tizzy about this. No one else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this matter. Just because it's not currently considered child abuse and illegal doesn't mean that people can't think so and voice their opinions. It doesn't mean they have an obsession, no matter how often you repeat that accusation. It means that they see a common practice as problematic and say so. An anonymous board is a perfect medium to discuss this issue because it's obviously too private a matter to debate in person with anyone but close friends and family.

This is how cultural change happens, and it is already happening with regard to circumcision, as the declining rates over the last years have shown. You can keep raging against it, but nobody who looks at this discussion objectively is going to believe that the people arguing against circumcision are a bunch of crazies and perverts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this matter. Just because it's not currently considered child abuse and illegal doesn't mean that people can't think so and voice their opinions. It doesn't mean they have an obsession, no matter how often you repeat that accusation. It means that they see a common practice as problematic and say so. An anonymous board is a perfect medium to discuss this issue because it's obviously too private a matter to debate in person with anyone but close friends and family.

This is how cultural change happens, and it is already happening with regard to circumcision, as the declining rates over the last years have shown. You can keep raging against it, but nobody who looks at this discussion objectively is going to believe that the people arguing against circumcision are a bunch of crazies and perverts.

+1.

And, most importantly, it's "y'all." Fake Southerners are the worst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this matter. Just because it's not currently considered child abuse and illegal doesn't mean that people can't think so and voice their opinions. It doesn't mean they have an obsession, no matter how often you repeat that accusation. It means that they see a common practice as problematic and say so. An anonymous board is a perfect medium to discuss this issue because it's obviously too private a matter to debate in person with anyone but close friends and family.

This is how cultural change happens, and it is already happening with regard to circumcision, as the declining rates over the last years have shown. You can keep raging against it, but nobody who looks at this discussion objectively is going to believe that the people arguing against circumcision are a bunch of crazies and perverts.

No fundamental misuderstanding here. You are welcome to think or feel whatever you want on the matter. I just don't have to care. Arguing with someone that they should care about your opinions is a touch crazy. Move on. Get over it. And if you can't, seek therapy. A good therapist will be able to tell you if its more than your actions that are crazy here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this matter. Just because it's not currently considered child abuse and illegal doesn't mean that people can't think so and voice their opinions. It doesn't mean they have an obsession, no matter how often you repeat that accusation. It means that they see a common practice as problematic and say so. An anonymous board is a perfect medium to discuss this issue because it's obviously too private a matter to debate in person with anyone but close friends and family.

This is how cultural change happens, and it is already happening with regard to circumcision, as the declining rates over the last years have shown. You can keep raging against it, but nobody who looks at this discussion objectively is going to believe that the people arguing against circumcision are a bunch of crazies and perverts.

No fundamental misuderstanding here. You are welcome to think or feel whatever you want on the matter. I just don't have to care. Arguing with someone that they should care about your opinions is a touch crazy. Move on. Get over it. And if you can't, seek therapy. A good therapist will be able to tell you if its more than your actions that are crazy here.

Thing is, if you don't care so much, please stop posting on threads taht are purporting to ask anti-circ people why they care about this issue. Several anti-circ posters have responded as to why they care. You apparently don't care about their reasons. This suggests to me perhaps you should find a different thread to read that isn't expressly asking for those reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this matter. Just because it's not currently considered child abuse and illegal doesn't mean that people can't think so and voice their opinions. It doesn't mean they have an obsession, no matter how often you repeat that accusation. It means that they see a common practice as problematic and say so. An anonymous board is a perfect medium to discuss this issue because it's obviously too private a matter to debate in person with anyone but close friends and family.

This is how cultural change happens, and it is already happening with regard to circumcision, as the declining rates over the last years have shown. You can keep raging against it, but nobody who looks at this discussion objectively is going to believe that the people arguing against circumcision are a bunch of crazies and perverts.

No fundamental misuderstanding here. You are welcome to think or feel whatever you want on the matter. I just don't have to care. Arguing with someone that they should care about your opinions is a touch crazy. Move on. Get over it. And if you can't, seek therapy. A good therapist will be able to tell you if its more than your actions that are crazy here.

Hmmm... Then maybe everyone who spends any time on DCUM, including you, should seek therapy, because that's what we do here all day long - debate different viewpoints, make arguments for our position. But I assume in reality you know that. You just continue to try slapping the insanity label on those who disagree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is not illegal. Its not child abuse or mutilation or child protective services would take little boys away from their parents for doing it. If you think or feel otherwise, I suggest you just get over it. What goes on in other people's homes, families, or with their genitalia is none of your business. Move on with your own life and find something else to occupy your time.

There is evidence for both sides of the argument. Who cares if you don't think or feel the evidence justifies the act? Last I checked, we don't have juries sitting in on deliveries deciding the fate of newborn male genitalia. Its none of you business. Move on. Get over it.

If you're unable to move on, then yes, you have an abnormal obsession with little boy's genitalia. Please seek therapy.
No mother has to justify her decisions to you. Life is not about you. But judge away, I'm sure you're guilty of some interesting parenting decisions too that you're being judged for by your friends as we speak. Can't wait to see how your snowflake turns out.

Good luck to you. Happy parenting ya'll.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this matter. Just because it's not currently considered child abuse and illegal doesn't mean that people can't think so and voice their opinions. It doesn't mean they have an obsession, no matter how often you repeat that accusation. It means that they see a common practice as problematic and say so. An anonymous board is a perfect medium to discuss this issue because it's obviously too private a matter to debate in person with anyone but close friends and family.

This is how cultural change happens, and it is already happening with regard to circumcision, as the declining rates over the last years have shown. You can keep raging against it, but nobody who looks at this discussion objectively is going to believe that the people arguing against circumcision are a bunch of crazies and perverts.

No fundamental misuderstanding here. You are welcome to think or feel whatever you want on the matter. I just don't have to care. Arguing with someone that they should care about your opinions is a touch crazy. Move on. Get over it. And if you can't, seek therapy. A good therapist will be able to tell you if its more than your actions that are crazy here.

Thing is, if you don't care so much, please stop posting on threads taht are purporting to ask anti-circ people why they care about this issue. Several anti-circ posters have responded as to why they care. You apparently don't care about their reasons. This suggests to me perhaps you should find a different thread to read that isn't expressly asking for those reasons.

+1. It's also quite significant that the two threads about circumcision that are going on here right now were started by circers who solicited the opinions of non-circers. I haven't seen such a thread started by someone opposing circumcision.