Bill Maher explains the Middle East to Gen Z: Can anyone really dispute the facts?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I see when reading some of you is that you simply can't accept that you were brought up on MSM framing where you never questioned what you were shown. You're so brainwashed into believing nothing happened/happens before there's retaliation against Israel and then every camera light goes on. You tell yourself that because the media isn't showing you the people Israel killed/beat/raped/kidnapped that day, that week, that month, that year and doesn't give them a fleshed out "human interest" narrative the way they do with Israelis, you then just brush away their pain and their humanity, and then conclude that I am tantamount to the literal calls for another Holocaust against Jews as you ignore the *average* Israeli calling for the extermination of Palestinians. I have someone calling me a "demon." This is what US media and the govt overrun with people like Stuart Seldowitz literally in the SD in the Office on Isr-Pal, has wrought. Listen to Matt Miller, he's no different. It's disgraceful how the US is prepared to destroy itself for THIS. Their hypocrisy on full-display for the world to see.

The younger gen. aren't the ones who fell for the Iraq war lies propped up by your precious "respectable" media as you smirk at the thought of them getting their news from social media. They aren't the ones who sat there listening to Neocons with the actual "bloodlust" lie to you and who are now to this day, treated as elder statesmen on that "credible" traditional media you love so much.

My hope is with the younger generation, because unlike you older people, they refuse to turn a blind eye to what Israel has done every single day when the MSM chose to ignore it. They refuse your simplistic belief that "Oct 7" is when this started or you get to ignore what led to it. When you just brush away the president of the US lied to you on day one and claimed he "saw videos of beheaded babies" and the media --rather than investigate the claims-- splash it on your screens all day and guests poisoning the minds of viewers for days/weeks and then are tepid with the retractions, you expect them to go along with how you consume information? They aren't the ones sitting there watching the ADL lie and make it about antisemitism and use Judaism as their cudgel to defend the barbarism of Israel. They aren't the ones who actively attack me for existing and then claim I want Jews dead based on simply telling you how everything actually happened and who brought terrorism and quoting the direct words of Israelis or Zionists, not simply the "far-right." Israelis society is destroying itself and you coddling their depravity, will only hasten their demise. Keep telling yourself it's just some fringe minority in Israel while you then compare me to them. Should really work out well being that myopic in how you think and you read what someone says.

And to the ridiculous comment "I don't have a dog in this fight" that I see blissfully ignorant Americans constantly use but always seem to still believe the lies about Israel always being the victim, I'll say what I did in another post on another thread: Your tax money, your media and your govt's blind fealty from Congress to vetoes at the UN to laws punishing anyone who speaks out, is why you do have a dog in this fight: You created Cujo.

Done with this topic, but I thank Jeff for providing the forum.

You’re not “done with this topic.” Otc, you won’t shut up about it and insist that you - a random poster - know more about the situation than Middle East experts. You do not.

You're right, I'm not done. One more just for you: I'm Palestinian. That you --the actual random poster-- tell me I don't know what I know *first hand* how Israel operates or the lies I know are lies, is *chefskiss*

You'll forgive me if I don't go along with "Middle East experts" like Bill Maher or I'm sure all the ones you're thinking of who happen to be western Zionists. Nothing funnier than being lectured by people who think it's perfectly normal watching roundtables with no actual Middle Eastern people. Nicolle Wallace discussing the Middle East with two "Mideast experts" like: Johnathan Greenblatt and Donny Deutsche.

List your experts who aren't part of "thinktanks" that are clearly pro-Israel. I doubt any are actually Arab and NOT on the payroll. Forget it, because I don;t even care what you think.

Now I am done. Won't even read your reply.

DP

Please reconsider. Voices like yours will be part of the healing process, overcoming the distortions and manipulations that are central to the Zionist movement’s stranglehold of U.S. policy in the region.

The US rightly recognizes that a democratic country that is pro US and also upholds many western values including but not limited to freedom of religion, rights for women, rights for LGTBQ+, rights for racial minorities, is aligned with US interests vs Iran-backed regimes and terrorists groups that dominate the region. That’s not the “Zionists” (Jew haters love wielding that word but it betrays your intent); that is good US foreign policy.

Now sure, you can say Netanyahu isn’t a good guy, agree. But just like I’m not giving up on the US because of Trump and hope our allies won’t either, not going to abandon Israel for what is essentially Iran’s Islamist regime.

Obviously the U.S. has more than two policy choices in the Middle East, The suggestion that we either have to give full 100% support to Israel or we must align with Iran is ridiculous. At a minimum, the U.S. should follow U.S. law which prohibits supplying weapons to countries that are preventing humanitarian aid to reach victims. Israel is clearly doing that in northern Gaza. As such, the U.S. should follow our own law and immediately halt all weapons deliveries.

Second, the U.S., as a member of the United Nations and a Security Council member, has a responsibility to ensure the safety of of U.N. peacekeeping forces. Israel has repeatedly attacked UNIFIL forces in southern Lebanon, wounding several soldiers. Today Israeli forces invaded a UNIFIL base. The U.S. should stop all support for Israel's invasion of Lebanon until Israel halts its aggression toward the peacekeeping forces.

Third, today Secretary of Defense Austin authorized the deployment of a THAAD missile defense system and a crew of U.S. personnel to man it to Israel. This is the deployment of U.S. forces into a war zone where there is a good chance they will be involved in conflict. This should not be done without Congressional authorization and should not be done at all until Israel adheres to U.S. demands regarding a ceasefire in Gaza, the resumption of humanitarian aid, a ceasefire in Lebanon, and an end to the seize of northern Gaza.

The U.S. relationship with Israel had been one-sided for far too long. It is time for the U.S. to follow its own laws and pursue its own interests.

Thank god there are voices better than mine to swat deceptive posts like the PP’s drivel into the dustbin of history. Appreciate this so much, the unraveling of years of fake news justification for America’s support of Israel.

There’s nothing in my post that was fake news - and please be explicit if you’re going to say that. I may have a differing perspective but that doesn’t make the facts of the situation “fake”.

As to Jeff’s post, yes, agree that the US should condition military aid. Humanitarian aid is impacted by Hamas’ continued attacks in Israel.
And Israel is entering into Lebanon to address Hezbollah that is embedded and attacking from that area. This is a two-sided war between Israel and the defacto regime (Iranian proxy), Hezbollah. Hezbollah has been attacking Israel since October 8. Any other nation in the world would seek to eradicate the threat of rockets continually fired into its space. Israel is not different in this regard.

Same with Gaza. You have a very active Hamas presence intent on continuing conflict. A ceasefire takes two.

Dishonesty: “democratic”; using “Western values” as a term of virtue; claiming that Israel, as embodied by its leadership, wants a ceasefire; arguing that events prior to
10/6 are irrelevant; and on and on.

Your posts are embarrassingly bereft of facts. It’s just Israeli propaganda.

Have you been to Israel? Doesn’t sound like it.

If you have gone to Israel you’d know that things like freedom of religion, freedom for women, the rights of LGBTQ+ people, and the rights of minorities are far more aligned with what we in western democracies hold dear than any of Israel’s neighbors. Is it perfect? No, Israel is not perfect. But it is far more democratic than any other country in the region and, yes, aligns with principles of many western democracies. It’s also pro US, unlike most of the region (and yes, that’s going back decades).

Not sure what you’re referencing about 10/6 but don’t think you do either.

The hard part to square with my democratic western values is that Israel is killing thousands, maiming thousands more, making orphans and widows of many, displacing millions, starving many. Yes, I get that Israel feels threatened bit they have gone way to far. Also, there is no way this is making their citizens safer. Just today there was a drone attack (on a military base fyi not a hospital or a school) in Israel. It’s enough. We have to stop sending weapons (although also just today went sent more plus soldiers).

Israel is doing what we'd do. We killed hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we committed plenty of war crimes along the way. We're still holding people in Guantanamo Bay. Doesn't make it okay, but we'd do it again in a heartbeat if another 9/11 happened on our shores.

If the Canadian government sent terrorists over the border to kidnap, rape, and murder American civilians, the American military would incapacitate the Canadian government so they were unable to do it again. Except in this example Israel isn’t allowed to fight back.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Superior military technology is the only reason why Hamas and Hezbollah haven’t murdered every single Israeli.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I see when reading some of you is that you simply can't accept that you were brought up on MSM framing where you never questioned what you were shown. You're so brainwashed into believing nothing happened/happens before there's retaliation against Israel and then every camera light goes on. You tell yourself that because the media isn't showing you the people Israel killed/beat/raped/kidnapped that day, that week, that month, that year and doesn't give them a fleshed out "human interest" narrative the way they do with Israelis, you then just brush away their pain and their humanity, and then conclude that I am tantamount to the literal calls for another Holocaust against Jews as you ignore the *average* Israeli calling for the extermination of Palestinians. I have someone calling me a "demon." This is what US media and the govt overrun with people like Stuart Seldowitz literally in the SD in the Office on Isr-Pal, has wrought. Listen to Matt Miller, he's no different. It's disgraceful how the US is prepared to destroy itself for THIS. Their hypocrisy on full-display for the world to see.

The younger gen. aren't the ones who fell for the Iraq war lies propped up by your precious "respectable" media as you smirk at the thought of them getting their news from social media. They aren't the ones who sat there listening to Neocons with the actual "bloodlust" lie to you and who are now to this day, treated as elder statesmen on that "credible" traditional media you love so much.

My hope is with the younger generation, because unlike you older people, they refuse to turn a blind eye to what Israel has done every single day when the MSM chose to ignore it. They refuse your simplistic belief that "Oct 7" is when this started or you get to ignore what led to it. When you just brush away the president of the US lied to you on day one and claimed he "saw videos of beheaded babies" and the media --rather than investigate the claims-- splash it on your screens all day and guests poisoning the minds of viewers for days/weeks and then are tepid with the retractions, you expect them to go along with how you consume information? They aren't the ones sitting there watching the ADL lie and make it about antisemitism and use Judaism as their cudgel to defend the barbarism of Israel. They aren't the ones who actively attack me for existing and then claim I want Jews dead based on simply telling you how everything actually happened and who brought terrorism and quoting the direct words of Israelis or Zionists, not simply the "far-right." Israelis society is destroying itself and you coddling their depravity, will only hasten their demise. Keep telling yourself it's just some fringe minority in Israel while you then compare me to them. Should really work out well being that myopic in how you think and you read what someone says.

And to the ridiculous comment "I don't have a dog in this fight" that I see blissfully ignorant Americans constantly use but always seem to still believe the lies about Israel always being the victim, I'll say what I did in another post on another thread: Your tax money, your media and your govt's blind fealty from Congress to vetoes at the UN to laws punishing anyone who speaks out, is why you do have a dog in this fight: You created Cujo.

Done with this topic, but I thank Jeff for providing the forum.

You’re not “done with this topic.” Otc, you won’t shut up about it and insist that you - a random poster - know more about the situation than Middle East experts. You do not.

You're right, I'm not done. One more just for you: I'm Palestinian. That you --the actual random poster-- tell me I don't know what I know *first hand* how Israel operates or the lies I know are lies, is *chefskiss*

You'll forgive me if I don't go along with "Middle East experts" like Bill Maher or I'm sure all the ones you're thinking of who happen to be western Zionists. Nothing funnier than being lectured by people who think it's perfectly normal watching roundtables with no actual Middle Eastern people. Nicolle Wallace discussing the Middle East with two "Mideast experts" like: Johnathan Greenblatt and Donny Deutsche.

List your experts who aren't part of "thinktanks" that are clearly pro-Israel. I doubt any are actually Arab and NOT on the payroll. Forget it, because I don;t even care what you think.

Now I am done. Won't even read your reply.

DP

Please reconsider. Voices like yours will be part of the healing process, overcoming the distortions and manipulations that are central to the Zionist movement’s stranglehold of U.S. policy in the region.

The US rightly recognizes that a democratic country that is pro US and also upholds many western values including but not limited to freedom of religion, rights for women, rights for LGTBQ+, rights for racial minorities, is aligned with US interests vs Iran-backed regimes and terrorists groups that dominate the region. That’s not the “Zionists” (Jew haters love wielding that word but it betrays your intent); that is good US foreign policy.

Now sure, you can say Netanyahu isn’t a good guy, agree. But just like I’m not giving up on the US because of Trump and hope our allies won’t either, not going to abandon Israel for what is essentially Iran’s Islamist regime.

Obviously the U.S. has more than two policy choices in the Middle East, The suggestion that we either have to give full 100% support to Israel or we must align with Iran is ridiculous. At a minimum, the U.S. should follow U.S. law which prohibits supplying weapons to countries that are preventing humanitarian aid to reach victims. Israel is clearly doing that in northern Gaza. As such, the U.S. should follow our own law and immediately halt all weapons deliveries.

Second, the U.S., as a member of the United Nations and a Security Council member, has a responsibility to ensure the safety of of U.N. peacekeeping forces. Israel has repeatedly attacked UNIFIL forces in southern Lebanon, wounding several soldiers. Today Israeli forces invaded a UNIFIL base. The U.S. should stop all support for Israel's invasion of Lebanon until Israel halts its aggression toward the peacekeeping forces.

Third, today Secretary of Defense Austin authorized the deployment of a THAAD missile defense system and a crew of U.S. personnel to man it to Israel. This is the deployment of U.S. forces into a war zone where there is a good chance they will be involved in conflict. This should not be done without Congressional authorization and should not be done at all until Israel adheres to U.S. demands regarding a ceasefire in Gaza, the resumption of humanitarian aid, a ceasefire in Lebanon, and an end to the seize of northern Gaza.

The U.S. relationship with Israel had been one-sided for far too long. It is time for the U.S. to follow its own laws and pursue its own interests.

Thank god there are voices better than mine to swat deceptive posts like the PP’s drivel into the dustbin of history. Appreciate this so much, the unraveling of years of fake news justification for America’s support of Israel.

There’s nothing in my post that was fake news - and please be explicit if you’re going to say that. I may have a differing perspective but that doesn’t make the facts of the situation “fake”.

As to Jeff’s post, yes, agree that the US should condition military aid. Humanitarian aid is impacted by Hamas’ continued attacks in Israel.
And Israel is entering into Lebanon to address Hezbollah that is embedded and attacking from that area. This is a two-sided war between Israel and the defacto regime (Iranian proxy), Hezbollah. Hezbollah has been attacking Israel since October 8. Any other nation in the world would seek to eradicate the threat of rockets continually fired into its space. Israel is not different in this regard.

Same with Gaza. You have a very active Hamas presence intent on continuing conflict. A ceasefire takes two.

Dishonesty: “democratic”; using “Western values” as a term of virtue; claiming that Israel, as embodied by its leadership, wants a ceasefire; arguing that events prior to
10/6 are irrelevant; and on and on.

Your posts are embarrassingly bereft of facts. It’s just Israeli propaganda.

Have you been to Israel? Doesn’t sound like it.

If you have gone to Israel you’d know that things like freedom of religion, freedom for women, the rights of LGBTQ+ people, and the rights of minorities are far more aligned with what we in western democracies hold dear than any of Israel’s neighbors. Is it perfect? No, Israel is not perfect. But it is far more democratic than any other country in the region and, yes, aligns with principles of many western democracies. It’s also pro US, unlike most of the region (and yes, that’s going back decades).

Not sure what you’re referencing about 10/6 but don’t think you do either.

The hard part to square with my democratic western values is that Israel is killing thousands, maiming thousands more, making orphans and widows of many, displacing millions, starving many. Yes, I get that Israel feels threatened bit they have gone way to far. Also, there is no way this is making their citizens safer. Just today there was a drone attack (on a military base fyi not a hospital or a school) in Israel. It’s enough. We have to stop sending weapons (although also just today went sent more plus soldiers).

Israel is doing what we'd do. We killed hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we committed plenty of war crimes along the way. We're still holding people in Guantanamo Bay. Doesn't make it okay, but we'd do it again in a heartbeat if another 9/11 happened on our shores.

If the Canadian government sent terrorists over the border to kidnap, rape, and murder American civilians, the American military would incapacitate the Canadian government so they were unable to do it again. Except in this example Israel isn’t allowed to fight back.

Another justification for genocide. Israel can do what it wants — and suffer the international repercussions — but the U.S. does not have to be part of it.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Superior military technology is the only reason why Hamas and Hezbollah haven’t murdered every single Israeli.

Another justification for genocide. Is there any atrocity by Israel that you won't justify?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Ok... Suppose then the US stops supplying weapons. How does that stop Iran from supplying weapons, how does it stop Hamas and Hezbollah and others from attacking Israel?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Ok... Suppose then the US stops supplying weapons. How does that stop Iran from supplying weapons, how does it stop Hamas and Hezbollah and others from attacking Israel?

I don't think the only choices are endless war or genocide. A civilized state would understand that the if a military solution required genocide, then a military solution does not exist. The alternative is a political solution. Israel should immediately accept a ceasefire (Hamas and Hezbollah have already agreed to U.S. proposals) and then work to establish a longer term political settlement. Of course, Israel has no interest in compromise which is why it is not considering doing anything of the sort. Israel had decided that genocide is an acceptable solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I see when reading some of you is that you simply can't accept that you were brought up on MSM framing where you never questioned what you were shown. You're so brainwashed into believing nothing happened/happens before there's retaliation against Israel and then every camera light goes on. You tell yourself that because the media isn't showing you the people Israel killed/beat/raped/kidnapped that day, that week, that month, that year and doesn't give them a fleshed out "human interest" narrative the way they do with Israelis, you then just brush away their pain and their humanity, and then conclude that I am tantamount to the literal calls for another Holocaust against Jews as you ignore the *average* Israeli calling for the extermination of Palestinians. I have someone calling me a "demon." This is what US media and the govt overrun with people like Stuart Seldowitz literally in the SD in the Office on Isr-Pal, has wrought. Listen to Matt Miller, he's no different. It's disgraceful how the US is prepared to destroy itself for THIS. Their hypocrisy on full-display for the world to see.

The younger gen. aren't the ones who fell for the Iraq war lies propped up by your precious "respectable" media as you smirk at the thought of them getting their news from social media. They aren't the ones who sat there listening to Neocons with the actual "bloodlust" lie to you and who are now to this day, treated as elder statesmen on that "credible" traditional media you love so much.

My hope is with the younger generation, because unlike you older people, they refuse to turn a blind eye to what Israel has done every single day when the MSM chose to ignore it. They refuse your simplistic belief that "Oct 7" is when this started or you get to ignore what led to it. When you just brush away the president of the US lied to you on day one and claimed he "saw videos of beheaded babies" and the media --rather than investigate the claims-- splash it on your screens all day and guests poisoning the minds of viewers for days/weeks and then are tepid with the retractions, you expect them to go along with how you consume information? They aren't the ones sitting there watching the ADL lie and make it about antisemitism and use Judaism as their cudgel to defend the barbarism of Israel. They aren't the ones who actively attack me for existing and then claim I want Jews dead based on simply telling you how everything actually happened and who brought terrorism and quoting the direct words of Israelis or Zionists, not simply the "far-right." Israelis society is destroying itself and you coddling their depravity, will only hasten their demise. Keep telling yourself it's just some fringe minority in Israel while you then compare me to them. Should really work out well being that myopic in how you think and you read what someone says.

And to the ridiculous comment "I don't have a dog in this fight" that I see blissfully ignorant Americans constantly use but always seem to still believe the lies about Israel always being the victim, I'll say what I did in another post on another thread: Your tax money, your media and your govt's blind fealty from Congress to vetoes at the UN to laws punishing anyone who speaks out, is why you do have a dog in this fight: You created Cujo.

Done with this topic, but I thank Jeff for providing the forum.

You’re not “done with this topic.” Otc, you won’t shut up about it and insist that you - a random poster - know more about the situation than Middle East experts. You do not.

You're right, I'm not done. One more just for you: I'm Palestinian. That you --the actual random poster-- tell me I don't know what I know *first hand* how Israel operates or the lies I know are lies, is *chefskiss*

You'll forgive me if I don't go along with "Middle East experts" like Bill Maher or I'm sure all the ones you're thinking of who happen to be western Zionists. Nothing funnier than being lectured by people who think it's perfectly normal watching roundtables with no actual Middle Eastern people. Nicolle Wallace discussing the Middle East with two "Mideast experts" like: Johnathan Greenblatt and Donny Deutsche.

List your experts who aren't part of "thinktanks" that are clearly pro-Israel. I doubt any are actually Arab and NOT on the payroll. Forget it, because I don;t even care what you think.

Now I am done. Won't even read your reply.

DP

Please reconsider. Voices like yours will be part of the healing process, overcoming the distortions and manipulations that are central to the Zionist movement’s stranglehold of U.S. policy in the region.

The US rightly recognizes that a democratic country that is pro US and also upholds many western values including but not limited to freedom of religion, rights for women, rights for LGTBQ+, rights for racial minorities, is aligned with US interests vs Iran-backed regimes and terrorists groups that dominate the region. That’s not the “Zionists” (Jew haters love wielding that word but it betrays your intent); that is good US foreign policy.

Now sure, you can say Netanyahu isn’t a good guy, agree. But just like I’m not giving up on the US because of Trump and hope our allies won’t either, not going to abandon Israel for what is essentially Iran’s Islamist regime.

Obviously the U.S. has more than two policy choices in the Middle East, The suggestion that we either have to give full 100% support to Israel or we must align with Iran is ridiculous. At a minimum, the U.S. should follow U.S. law which prohibits supplying weapons to countries that are preventing humanitarian aid to reach victims. Israel is clearly doing that in northern Gaza. As such, the U.S. should follow our own law and immediately halt all weapons deliveries.

Second, the U.S., as a member of the United Nations and a Security Council member, has a responsibility to ensure the safety of of U.N. peacekeeping forces. Israel has repeatedly attacked UNIFIL forces in southern Lebanon, wounding several soldiers. Today Israeli forces invaded a UNIFIL base. The U.S. should stop all support for Israel's invasion of Lebanon until Israel halts its aggression toward the peacekeeping forces.

Third, today Secretary of Defense Austin authorized the deployment of a THAAD missile defense system and a crew of U.S. personnel to man it to Israel. This is the deployment of U.S. forces into a war zone where there is a good chance they will be involved in conflict. This should not be done without Congressional authorization and should not be done at all until Israel adheres to U.S. demands regarding a ceasefire in Gaza, the resumption of humanitarian aid, a ceasefire in Lebanon, and an end to the seize of northern Gaza.

The U.S. relationship with Israel had been one-sided for far too long. It is time for the U.S. to follow its own laws and pursue its own interests.

Thank god there are voices better than mine to swat deceptive posts like the PP’s drivel into the dustbin of history. Appreciate this so much, the unraveling of years of fake news justification for America’s support of Israel.

There’s nothing in my post that was fake news - and please be explicit if you’re going to say that. I may have a differing perspective but that doesn’t make the facts of the situation “fake”.

As to Jeff’s post, yes, agree that the US should condition military aid. Humanitarian aid is impacted by Hamas’ continued attacks in Israel.
And Israel is entering into Lebanon to address Hezbollah that is embedded and attacking from that area. This is a two-sided war between Israel and the defacto regime (Iranian proxy), Hezbollah. Hezbollah has been attacking Israel since October 8. Any other nation in the world would seek to eradicate the threat of rockets continually fired into its space. Israel is not different in this regard.

Same with Gaza. You have a very active Hamas presence intent on continuing conflict. A ceasefire takes two.

Dishonesty: “democratic”; using “Western values” as a term of virtue; claiming that Israel, as embodied by its leadership, wants a ceasefire; arguing that events prior to
10/6 are irrelevant; and on and on.

Your posts are embarrassingly bereft of facts. It’s just Israeli propaganda.

Have you been to Israel? Doesn’t sound like it.

If you have gone to Israel you’d know that things like freedom of religion, freedom for women, the rights of LGBTQ+ people, and the rights of minorities are far more aligned with what we in western democracies hold dear than any of Israel’s neighbors. Is it perfect? No, Israel is not perfect. But it is far more democratic than any other country in the region and, yes, aligns with principles of many western democracies. It’s also pro US, unlike most of the region (and yes, that’s going back decades).

Not sure what you’re referencing about 10/6 but don’t think you do either.

The hard part to square with my democratic western values is that Israel is killing thousands, maiming thousands more, making orphans and widows of many, displacing millions, starving many. Yes, I get that Israel feels threatened bit they have gone way to far. Also, there is no way this is making their citizens safer. Just today there was a drone attack (on a military base fyi not a hospital or a school) in Israel. It’s enough. We have to stop sending weapons (although also just today went sent more plus soldiers).

Israel is doing what we'd do. We killed hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we committed plenty of war crimes along the way. We're still holding people in Guantanamo Bay. Doesn't make it okay, but we'd do it again in a heartbeat if another 9/11 happened on our shores.

If the Canadian government sent terrorists over the border to kidnap, rape, and murder American civilians, the American military would incapacitate the Canadian government so they were unable to do it again. Except in this example Israel isn’t allowed to fight back.

Israel is allowed but by this same time last year they’ve already killed more than twice the amount that Hamas killed on 10/7.

The problem is you believe Israel wants to get rid of the Hamas government.

They do not.

They say they do but certainly a Palestinian Authority taking over the Gaza Strip is a bigger threat in Netanyahu’s eyes than Hamas. Even after 10/7, Netanyahu still believes HE can control Hamas and they can’t get one over him even though they have

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Ok... Suppose then the US stops supplying weapons. How does that stop Iran from supplying weapons, how does it stop Hamas and Hezbollah and others from attacking Israel?

I don't think the only choices are endless war or genocide. A civilized state would understand that the if a military solution required genocide, then a military solution does not exist. The alternative is a political solution. Israel should immediately accept a ceasefire (Hamas and Hezbollah have already agreed to U.S. proposals) and then work to establish a longer term political settlement. Of course, Israel has no interest in compromise which is why it is not considering doing anything of the sort. Israel had decided that genocide is an acceptable solution.

And the only reason they have reached that conclusion, Jeff, is because they know the U.S. will bail them out unconditionally if they misstep, and that we will interfere with any international response seeking to hold them accountable for their actions.

We need to begin placing blame squarely on our own government for very actively enabling Israel.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Ok... Suppose then the US stops supplying weapons. How does that stop Iran from supplying weapons, how does it stop Hamas and Hezbollah and others from attacking Israel?

I don't think the only choices are endless war or genocide. A civilized state would understand that the if a military solution required genocide, then a military solution does not exist. The alternative is a political solution. Israel should immediately accept a ceasefire (Hamas and Hezbollah have already agreed to U.S. proposals) and then work to establish a longer term political settlement. Of course, Israel has no interest in compromise which is why it is not considering doing anything of the sort. Israel had decided that genocide is an acceptable solution.

If Hamas and Hezbollah have agreed to US proposals then why are we not hearing about this anywhere?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Ok... Suppose then the US stops supplying weapons. How does that stop Iran from supplying weapons, how does it stop Hamas and Hezbollah and others from attacking Israel?

I don't think the only choices are endless war or genocide. A civilized state would understand that the if a military solution required genocide, then a military solution does not exist. The alternative is a political solution. Israel should immediately accept a ceasefire (Hamas and Hezbollah have already agreed to U.S. proposals) and then work to establish a longer term political settlement. Of course, Israel has no interest in compromise which is why it is not considering doing anything of the sort. Israel had decided that genocide is an acceptable solution.

And the only reason they have reached that conclusion, Jeff, is because they know the U.S. will bail them out unconditionally if they misstep, and that we will interfere with any international response seeking to hold them accountable for their actions.

We need to begin placing blame squarely on our own government for very actively enabling Israel.

I agree. The problem is that we have no good options. We don't want to be nihilistic. The best we can do is vote for Harris and hope that political pressure will cause her to change policy. We know that Trump will not care about political pressure from groups that want to stop the fighting. Voting for Stein or not voting may provide a feeling of moral superiority, but will have no practical benefit.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Ok... Suppose then the US stops supplying weapons. How does that stop Iran from supplying weapons, how does it stop Hamas and Hezbollah and others from attacking Israel?

I don't think the only choices are endless war or genocide. A civilized state would understand that the if a military solution required genocide, then a military solution does not exist. The alternative is a political solution. Israel should immediately accept a ceasefire (Hamas and Hezbollah have already agreed to U.S. proposals) and then work to establish a longer term political settlement. Of course, Israel has no interest in compromise which is why it is not considering doing anything of the sort. Israel had decided that genocide is an acceptable solution.

If Hamas and Hezbollah have agreed to US proposals then why are we not hearing about this anywhere?

Good question. I would ask the editors of mainstream media outlets.

Here is Hezbollah: https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/middleeast/hezbollah-endorses-lebanon-ceasefire-first-time-israel-war-intl/index.html

Here is Hamas: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68964108

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Ok... Suppose then the US stops supplying weapons. How does that stop Iran from supplying weapons, how does it stop Hamas and Hezbollah and others from attacking Israel?

Figure out ways in which to get along with other people! If they “hate us!”, figure out why and address it, diplomatically! Compromise, reparations, painful reform. There’s no way out of this that involves killing everyone who has had enough of Israel’s actions.

What’s the alternative? Kill everyone? At some point, if Israel continues on this path, the principle of “the greater good” will lead to a reckoning that one group does, indeed, have to go.

And I’ll leave it to you to come to the realization that the group unlikely to go will be the one that numbers in the multiple billions of people, but instead the one that numbers less than 20 million people.

Do the math. Start making better choices before it’s too late.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Superior military technology is the only reason why Hamas and Hezbollah haven’t murdered every single Israeli.

Another justification for genocide. Is there any atrocity by Israel that you won't justify?

Wars are not genocide.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, if Hamas and Hezbollah choose to secrete themselves into civilian neighborhoods, as they saying goes, "you get what you get".

The overwhelming Palestinian population has elected Hamas as the government of Gaza.

Really?
Is it not true that Hana’s was last elected nearly 20 years ago, when the majority of Palestinians were either unborn or else ineligible to vote? And didn’t Hamas fail to gain a plurality of the vote at that time, but instead assume power with the assistance of the Israeli government?

Boy, your command of the actual facts is really bad, even for a Zionist.

20 years ago? Why are you judging their electoral system by U.S. standards? it is what it is.

Better question: why are you insinuating that the innocents being slaughtered by Israel have themselves to blame?

Yes. This. We can go back and forth about he 2006 election but honestly does it matter? Clearly more than militants are being killed (and maimed and displaced don’t forget). I understand it’s hard to accept that Israel is this cruel, but it is. I find it sickening that a country whose people know suffering can inflict such harm on others. (Ps. I’m not an anti semite. I’m of Jewish descent and think my people must do better).

The Hamas militants are hiding among civilians and literally used hospitals and other civilian facilities to launch attacks on the IDF. They are thus equally culpable in the killings of civilians. It's extremely misleading to try and claim that EVERY civilian death is SOLELY the fault of the IDF and we are far past due an admission from pro-Palestinians of that.

Let's agree that Israel and Hamas have equal responsibility for the ongoing genocide. The leaders of both sides should be indicted on war crimes (has already happened) and the U.S. should follow U.S. law and stop supplying weapons to both sides. Of course, the U.S. does not supply weapons to Hamas so we can only stop providing weapons to Israel. But, this will meet your objection of not placing fault only on one side.

Superior military technology is the only reason why Hamas and Hezbollah haven’t murdered every single Israeli.

Another justification for genocide. Is there any atrocity by Israel that you won't justify?

Wars are not genocide.

That might have sounded good when you thought of it, but it really doesn't make much sense. Israel is committing genocide regardless of whatever else it might be doing.