Elderly woman died after carjacking near WHC in NW this afternoon, SUV crashed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it turns out the USAO dropped the murder charge…she’s only charged with unarmed carjacking.

https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1467765

This is just for pre trial detention. The charges can still be brought depending on what the autopsy finds.

What planet do you live on?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The arrested driver is a 22 year old who was at the hospital and “walked away from her family.” Sounds like she may have been the patient, maybe in crisis (mental, drugs?). The “elderly” woman was only 55 years old!
https://www.popville.com/2024/06/female-arrested-in-a-northwest-carjacking/#more-299868

I love the constant speculation that only and always tried to find a way to absolve this person of responsibility. Why not just wait for and rely on the facts?

Why are you so invested in a narrative that says this woman is an unrepentant monster? What do you gain from closing your mind off to the (pretty reasonable) possibility that she was not in her right mind?

.

NP. I don't care. She killed someone, and Kayla Kenisha Brown needs to be taken out of society forever, be it in a classic prison or -- if "not in her right mind" -- then she needs to be locked up forever in one of the few remaining high security psychiatric facilities. ala John Hinckley.

Can't wait to see the toxicology report

Disagree, condolences to the family. But clearly the young 22 year old woman needs substance help, recovery and we need to know what the drug is. It's also possible she has mental health issues. No one should be caged for life, I prefer the European model.

This. She needs help, not a cage.

She needs a lifelong cage and complete removal from society. I cannot imagine someone dismissing the death of my loved one at the hands of a malicious criminal just because they were a drug addict. Imagine your family member is killed by a callous criminal, and that criminal is then not punished to the maximum extend of the law.
Mental health issues and substance abuse do not absolve you from a life of crime. There are millions of people who are subject to poverty, terrible childhoods, war, and violence who do not grow up to be criminals. I do not feel sorry for the killer in the slightest. I want her gone from society so she cannot take another life.

+1 well said. She's had enough chances. When these people murder us, we don't get a second chance at life. She failed herself. If more people like her were locked up for life our quality of life would be much better and the world a safer place.

I don't forgive her, but I do think we, as a society, need to do better. Her parents called the police because she was a danger to herself and others. They did the right thing. What happened after that was nothing short of a failure of our systems. Age 22 is prime age for a major mental illness like schizophrenia or delusional manic episodes common to bipolar to manifest. There are a lot of people with mental illnesses around. What should their families do if they know they've gone off the deep end? She should not have been released from protective custody until she was no longer out of her mind and likely to hurt herself or others. Do I release her from responsibility? No. But also, we've got to get our act together as a society to deal with mental illness better. Throwing people out of mental institutions and then dismantling the legal system that puts them there has not worked out. We need to increase the number of beds and make it automatic that people who need them get them as soon as we need them or else we will have more people dying at the hands of people who are not in their right minds. That's just reality.

She was transported for a high heart rate and high blood pressure due to the drugs she took, she was NOT transported on a psych hold.

Did her parents not also say that she had been acting erratically for three days to the paramedics? That should have triggered extra security and a potential psych hold. Are we saying the two things can't happen at the same time? Sounds like a communication breakdown which isn't shocking in a city that gives short shift to mental health. How many people have been attacked/murdered in DC in the past five years by people who should be under a psych hold? Answer - a lot.

Acting erratically is insufficient for an FD-12. There is not anything reported in the news to indicate she legally qualified for an involuntary psych hold nor restraint during transport. Obviously she did after she took the car, but what evidence existed prior to that? Again, acting erratically does not remotely qualify for psych hold unless evidence was provided AT THE TIME OF TRANSPORT that she was a danger to herself or others.

I think the point is it should qualify for a psych hold.

That's a pretty vague parameter that could easily lead to abuse and detrimental impact in other scenarios. For all we know, she was completely compliant during EMS' assessment and transport then bolted. To have a person involuntarily restrained because their family reports only vaguely that they are "acting erratically" would be a legally fraught protocol.

Acting erratically should be enough for a 24 hour psych hold, as this case demonstrates.

Again, we do not know if she was acting erratically in the presence of EMT. She could have been compliant the entire time then suddenly took off. One person simply saying another is acting erratically, if they are following directions in the presence of EMT during the brief 30 min assessment and transport, is not sufficient for involuntary psych hold, legally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The arrested driver is a 22 year old who was at the hospital and “walked away from her family.” Sounds like she may have been the patient, maybe in crisis (mental, drugs?). The “elderly” woman was only 55 years old!
https://www.popville.com/2024/06/female-arrested-in-a-northwest-carjacking/#more-299868

I love the constant speculation that only and always tried to find a way to absolve this person of responsibility. Why not just wait for and rely on the facts?

Why are you so invested in a narrative that says this woman is an unrepentant monster? What do you gain from closing your mind off to the (pretty reasonable) possibility that she was not in her right mind?

.

NP. I don't care. She killed someone, and Kayla Kenisha Brown needs to be taken out of society forever, be it in a classic prison or -- if "not in her right mind" -- then she needs to be locked up forever in one of the few remaining high security psychiatric facilities. ala John Hinckley.

Can't wait to see the toxicology report

Disagree, condolences to the family. But clearly the young 22 year old woman needs substance help, recovery and we need to know what the drug is. It's also possible she has mental health issues. No one should be caged for life, I prefer the European model.

This. She needs help, not a cage.

She needs a lifelong cage and complete removal from society. I cannot imagine someone dismissing the death of my loved one at the hands of a malicious criminal just because they were a drug addict. Imagine your family member is killed by a callous criminal, and that criminal is then not punished to the maximum extend of the law.
Mental health issues and substance abuse do not absolve you from a life of crime. There are millions of people who are subject to poverty, terrible childhoods, war, and violence who do not grow up to be criminals. I do not feel sorry for the killer in the slightest. I want her gone from society so she cannot take another life.

+1 well said. She's had enough chances. When these people murder us, we don't get a second chance at life. She failed herself. If more people like her were locked up for life our quality of life would be much better and the world a safer place.

I don't forgive her, but I do think we, as a society, need to do better. Her parents called the police because she was a danger to herself and others. They did the right thing. What happened after that was nothing short of a failure of our systems. Age 22 is prime age for a major mental illness like schizophrenia or delusional manic episodes common to bipolar to manifest. There are a lot of people with mental illnesses around. What should their families do if they know they've gone off the deep end? She should not have been released from protective custody until she was no longer out of her mind and likely to hurt herself or others. Do I release her from responsibility? No. But also, we've got to get our act together as a society to deal with mental illness better. Throwing people out of mental institutions and then dismantling the legal system that puts them there has not worked out. We need to increase the number of beds and make it automatic that people who need them get them as soon as we need them or else we will have more people dying at the hands of people who are not in their right minds. That's just reality.

She was transported for a high heart rate and high blood pressure due to the drugs she took, she was NOT transported on a psych hold.

Did her parents not also say that she had been acting erratically for three days to the paramedics? That should have triggered extra security and a potential psych hold. Are we saying the two things can't happen at the same time? Sounds like a communication breakdown which isn't shocking in a city that gives short shift to mental health. How many people have been attacked/murdered in DC in the past five years by people who should be under a psych hold? Answer - a lot.

Acting erratically is insufficient for an FD-12. There is not anything reported in the news to indicate she legally qualified for an involuntary psych hold nor restraint during transport. Obviously she did after she took the car, but what evidence existed prior to that? Again, acting erratically does not remotely qualify for psych hold unless evidence was provided AT THE TIME OF TRANSPORT that she was a danger to herself or others.

I think the point is it should qualify for a psych hold.

That's a pretty vague parameter that could easily lead to abuse and detrimental impact in other scenarios. For all we know, she was completely compliant during EMS' assessment and transport then bolted. To have a person involuntarily restrained because their family reports only vaguely that they are "acting erratically" would be a legally fraught protocol.

Acting erratically should be enough for a 24 hour psych hold, as this case demonstrates.

Can you even imagine the abuse if that were the standard?! I mean if I didn’t like someone I could call EMTs and claim that the person was acting erratically and wham! 24 hour hold. Want to prevent someone from interviewing for a job you want? Call EMTs and claim they were acting erratically. What to prevent your ex from getting remarried? Call EMTs and claim they were acting erratically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are confusing "having reasonable doubts about when the victim died" with "thinking that the criminal should go free."

I don't think Kenisha Brown should go free. I think she should be in jail. She carjacked someone. Unfortunately, judges in DC are soft on crime and have made clear that they don't jail people for carjacking.

Now, do I think murder is a horrible crime? Yes. Do I think someone convicted of a murder should face the strongest consequence possible? Also yes.

Do I think it's fair to say that there's some reasonable doubt that Kenisha Brown killed this woman? Again, yes.

She is not a victim and we don't need to be "compassionate" to her mental health as some would suggest. (hell, her mental health is fine, she didn't have a psychiatric episode SHE WAS ON DRUGS) But it is not an automatic that she is the reason someone died, when that someone was being driven to the hospital for a medical emergency.

Make sense?

So, people in hospital parking lots are fair game if you want to murder someone because they might be experiencing a medical issue? Noted.

Yes! That's literally exactly what I said!

/s

Jokes aside, that is not at all what I said and you know it. I said it will be hard to prove that the woman died because of the crash. Now, if a perfectly healthy person not experiencing a medical emergency was carjacked, and the autopsy later concluded they had died as the result of the crash, yes, that would be fairly easy to prove.

You do get that this woman has likely had an autopsy done and if the murder charge was dropped, they couldn't conclude it was homicide?

That being said I do hope this little animal gets the book thrown at her. She may not have murdered this particular woman, but mark my words, if we let her out she will never learn her lesson and go on to murder someone else.

So, if I push someone off a building and they have a heart attack on the way down, I have no responsibility for the death? The woman was denied access to medical treatment. You seem to be saying that this is OK. Even if that someone dies from that denied access. I am guessing you work for the health insurance industry.

No. If you push someone off a building and they have a heart attack on the way down, you could make the argument that the stress of being pushed off a building caused the heart attack and you should be held criminally responsible for that!

Agree that if the woman was not dead, she was denied access to medical treatment when she was carjacked. It will be difficult to prove when she died though.

You seem really dense.

You are claiming the daughter was driving around a corpse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The arrested driver is a 22 year old who was at the hospital and “walked away from her family.” Sounds like she may have been the patient, maybe in crisis (mental, drugs?). The “elderly” woman was only 55 years old!
https://www.popville.com/2024/06/female-arrested-in-a-northwest-carjacking/#more-299868

I love the constant speculation that only and always tried to find a way to absolve this person of responsibility. Why not just wait for and rely on the facts?

Why are you so invested in a narrative that says this woman is an unrepentant monster? What do you gain from closing your mind off to the (pretty reasonable) possibility that she was not in her right mind?

.

NP. I don't care. She killed someone, and Kayla Kenisha Brown needs to be taken out of society forever, be it in a classic prison or -- if "not in her right mind" -- then she needs to be locked up forever in one of the few remaining high security psychiatric facilities. ala John Hinckley.

Can't wait to see the toxicology report

Disagree, condolences to the family. But clearly the young 22 year old woman needs substance help, recovery and we need to know what the drug is. It's also possible she has mental health issues. No one should be caged for life, I prefer the European model.

This. She needs help, not a cage.

She needs a lifelong cage and complete removal from society. I cannot imagine someone dismissing the death of my loved one at the hands of a malicious criminal just because they were a drug addict. Imagine your family member is killed by a callous criminal, and that criminal is then not punished to the maximum extend of the law.
Mental health issues and substance abuse do not absolve you from a life of crime. There are millions of people who are subject to poverty, terrible childhoods, war, and violence who do not grow up to be criminals. I do not feel sorry for the killer in the slightest. I want her gone from society so she cannot take another life.

+1 well said. She's had enough chances. When these people murder us, we don't get a second chance at life. She failed herself. If more people like her were locked up for life our quality of life would be much better and the world a safer place.

I don't forgive her, but I do think we, as a society, need to do better. Her parents called the police because she was a danger to herself and others. They did the right thing. What happened after that was nothing short of a failure of our systems. Age 22 is prime age for a major mental illness like schizophrenia or delusional manic episodes common to bipolar to manifest. There are a lot of people with mental illnesses around. What should their families do if they know they've gone off the deep end? She should not have been released from protective custody until she was no longer out of her mind and likely to hurt herself or others. Do I release her from responsibility? No. But also, we've got to get our act together as a society to deal with mental illness better. Throwing people out of mental institutions and then dismantling the legal system that puts them there has not worked out. We need to increase the number of beds and make it automatic that people who need them get them as soon as we need them or else we will have more people dying at the hands of people who are not in their right minds. That's just reality.

She was transported for a high heart rate and high blood pressure due to the drugs she took, she was NOT transported on a psych hold.

Did her parents not also say that she had been acting erratically for three days to the paramedics? That should have triggered extra security and a potential psych hold. Are we saying the two things can't happen at the same time? Sounds like a communication breakdown which isn't shocking in a city that gives short shift to mental health. How many people have been attacked/murdered in DC in the past five years by people who should be under a psych hold? Answer - a lot.

Acting erratically is insufficient for an FD-12. There is not anything reported in the news to indicate she legally qualified for an involuntary psych hold nor restraint during transport. Obviously she did after she took the car, but what evidence existed prior to that? Again, acting erratically does not remotely qualify for psych hold unless evidence was provided AT THE TIME OF TRANSPORT that she was a danger to herself or others.

I think the point is it should qualify for a psych hold.

That's a pretty vague parameter that could easily lead to abuse and detrimental impact in other scenarios. For all we know, she was completely compliant during EMS' assessment and transport then bolted. To have a person involuntarily restrained because their family reports only vaguely that they are "acting erratically" would be a legally fraught protocol.

Acting erratically should be enough for a 24 hour psych hold, as this case demonstrates.

Again, we do not know if she was acting erratically in the presence of EMT. She could have been compliant the entire time then suddenly took off. One person simply saying another is acting erratically, if they are following directions in the presence of EMT during the brief 30 min assessment and transport, is not sufficient for involuntary psych hold, legally.

Her psychotic behavior didn’t come out of nowhere. A detailed history from her family plus what must have been disordered thinking/behavior that triggered the call, should have been enough to hold her. If not the law should change.

[Anonymous]

Oh. DC gets an “F” grade on its involuntary commitment law: https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/grading-the-states.pdf

Of particular relevance here is that DC has no criteria for psychiatric deterioration; just that the person must be at risk of “injuring” themselves or others.

Obviously the law needs to be changed so we can protect people in exactly these kinds of circumstances. If family calls 911 because a family member is ranting and raving, then the person should be hospitalized for at least 2 days. Defending the rights of people to have untreated psychotic breaks is really losing the plot.

[Anonymous]

I'm probably the only person on this thread who has actually worked inpatient psych at a **DC hospital**

Everyone listen up: because there aren't enough beds in DC, ever, the threshold for actually holding someone in practice is impossible to meet. Very easy to 1. confirm there are no beds in your hospital, then 2. check the system and confirm there are no beds at this moment in neighboring DC hospital then 3. have the on call psych do a consult and conclude that a hold is not warranted then 4. have the person hang around the ED with a 1:1 sitter for a while, in the event a bed opens up somewhere and another psych on-call consult is done.

Eventually, after making everyone's life hell while lounging on a gurney for hours ... the drugs wear off and/or the person is clear enough to state they aren't a danger to themselves or others and off they go into the world.

The multiple ppl on this thread who think that intoxicated people get a FD 12 hold just because their parents tell the ED staff they desire one are clueless.

[Anonymous]

If a white did this, she would be held pre-trial, she would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and she would go to jail for a long time. That is how a civilized society handles violent criminal conduct. Bc a black did this, an entirely different process will unfold and she may well serve no time. All that does is incentivize violent criminal conduct and endanger the lives of everyone in the community. We are destroying society lowering the standards that are expected of blacks- time after time, if the blacks cannot meet the standard set by the community, that standard is lowered more. We are devolving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If a white did this, she would be held pre-trial, she would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and she would go to jail for a long time. That is how a civilized society handles violent criminal conduct. Bc a black did this, an entirely different process will unfold and she may well serve no time. All that does is incentivize violent criminal conduct and endanger the lives of everyone in the community. We are destroying society lowering the standards that are expected of blacks- time after time, if the blacks cannot meet the standard set by the community, that standard is lowered more. We are devolving.

And they would comb the white person's social media to see if they ever said anything that could get them to charge a hate crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so easy to get away with crime in this city.

Exactly.

Paraphrasing DC police as told to local news: “If you steal a car from a person that you think is elderly and kill them, we don’t really think that is a crime, even when the car is crashed into to attorney general’s office building.”

Link?

News Channel 4. Google it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Running a car into a building deliberately at a decent rate of speed with impact on the passenger’s side is intentional, premeditated murder. You don’t accidentally run one side of a car into a particular government building in charge of prosecuting crimes in DC.

If you believe anything else, you must still believe in Santa and the tooth fairy, too.

She lost control of the car. It wasn't intentional.

Yes it was intentional. Your false narrative is pure spin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If a white did this, she would be held pre-trial, she would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and she would go to jail for a long time. That is how a civilized society handles violent criminal conduct. Bc a black did this, an entirely different process will unfold and she may well serve no time. All that does is incentivize violent criminal conduct and endanger the lives of everyone in the community. We are destroying society lowering the standards that are expected of blacks- time after time, if the blacks cannot meet the standard set by the community, that standard is lowered more. We are devolving.

A white person who did this would face capital punishment or life in prison in states without capital punishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm probably the only person on this thread who has actually worked inpatient psych at a **DC hospital**

Everyone listen up: because there aren't enough beds in DC, ever, the threshold for actually holding someone in practice is impossible to meet. Very easy to 1. confirm there are no beds in your hospital, then 2. check the system and confirm there are no beds at this moment in neighboring DC hospital then 3. have the on call psych do a consult and conclude that a hold is not warranted then 4. have the person hang around the ED with a 1:1 sitter for a while, in the event a bed opens up somewhere and another psych on-call consult is done.

Eventually, after making everyone's life hell while lounging on a gurney for hours ... the drugs wear off and/or the person is clear enough to state they aren't a danger to themselves or others and off they go into the world.

The multiple ppl on this thread who think that intoxicated people get a FD 12 hold just because their parents tell the ED staff they desire one are clueless.

Apparently she ran away before any of that could happen. Even the 1:1 in the ER for a while might have been beneficial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are confusing "having reasonable doubts about when the victim died" with "thinking that the criminal should go free."

I don't think Kenisha Brown should go free. I think she should be in jail. She carjacked someone. Unfortunately, judges in DC are soft on crime and have made clear that they don't jail people for carjacking.

Now, do I think murder is a horrible crime? Yes. Do I think someone convicted of a murder should face the strongest consequence possible? Also yes.

Do I think it's fair to say that there's some reasonable doubt that Kenisha Brown killed this woman? Again, yes.

She is not a victim and we don't need to be "compassionate" to her mental health as some would suggest. (hell, her mental health is fine, she didn't have a psychiatric episode SHE WAS ON DRUGS) But it is not an automatic that she is the reason someone died, when that someone was being driven to the hospital for a medical emergency.

Make sense?

So, people in hospital parking lots are fair game if you want to murder someone because they might be experiencing a medical issue? Noted.

Yes! That's literally exactly what I said!

/s

Jokes aside, that is not at all what I said and you know it. I said it will be hard to prove that the woman died because of the crash. Now, if a perfectly healthy person not experiencing a medical emergency was carjacked, and the autopsy later concluded they had died as the result of the crash, yes, that would be fairly easy to prove.

You do get that this woman has likely had an autopsy done and if the murder charge was dropped, they couldn't conclude it was homicide?

That being said I do hope this little animal gets the book thrown at her. She may not have murdered this particular woman, but mark my words, if we let her out she will never learn her lesson and go on to murder someone else.

So, if I push someone off a building and they have a heart attack on the way down, I have no responsibility for the death? The woman was denied access to medical treatment. You seem to be saying that this is OK. Even if that someone dies from that denied access. I am guessing you work for the health insurance industry.

No. If you push someone off a building and they have a heart attack on the way down, you could make the argument that the stress of being pushed off a building caused the heart attack and you should be held criminally responsible for that!

Agree that if the woman was not dead, she was denied access to medical treatment when she was carjacked. It will be difficult to prove when she died though.

You seem really dense.

You are claiming the daughter was driving around a corpse?

The decedent died before Kayla ever took the car. For that reason she cannot be guilty of murder or kidnapping. You can’t murder a dead person. Even the US Attorney acknowledged this. That’s why they dropped the murder and kidnapping charge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are confusing "having reasonable doubts about when the victim died" with "thinking that the criminal should go free."

I don't think Kenisha Brown should go free. I think she should be in jail. She carjacked someone. Unfortunately, judges in DC are soft on crime and have made clear that they don't jail people for carjacking.

Now, do I think murder is a horrible crime? Yes. Do I think someone convicted of a murder should face the strongest consequence possible? Also yes.

Do I think it's fair to say that there's some reasonable doubt that Kenisha Brown killed this woman? Again, yes.

She is not a victim and we don't need to be "compassionate" to her mental health as some would suggest. (hell, her mental health is fine, she didn't have a psychiatric episode SHE WAS ON DRUGS) But it is not an automatic that she is the reason someone died, when that someone was being driven to the hospital for a medical emergency.

Make sense?

So, people in hospital parking lots are fair game if you want to murder someone because they might be experiencing a medical issue? Noted.

Yes! That's literally exactly what I said!

/s

Jokes aside, that is not at all what I said and you know it. I said it will be hard to prove that the woman died because of the crash. Now, if a perfectly healthy person not experiencing a medical emergency was carjacked, and the autopsy later concluded they had died as the result of the crash, yes, that would be fairly easy to prove.

You do get that this woman has likely had an autopsy done and if the murder charge was dropped, they couldn't conclude it was homicide?

That being said I do hope this little animal gets the book thrown at her. She may not have murdered this particular woman, but mark my words, if we let her out she will never learn her lesson and go on to murder someone else.

So, if I push someone off a building and they have a heart attack on the way down, I have no responsibility for the death? The woman was denied access to medical treatment. You seem to be saying that this is OK. Even if that someone dies from that denied access. I am guessing you work for the health insurance industry.

No. If you push someone off a building and they have a heart attack on the way down, you could make the argument that the stress of being pushed off a building caused the heart attack and you should be held criminally responsible for that!

Agree that if the woman was not dead, she was denied access to medical treatment when she was carjacked. It will be difficult to prove when she died though.

You seem really dense.

You are claiming the daughter was driving around a corpse?

The decedent died before Kayla ever took the car. For that reason she cannot be guilty of murder or kidnapping. You can’t murder a dead person. Even the US Attorney acknowledged this. That’s why they dropped the murder and kidnapping charge.

there’s zero proof of that