Millennial women are saying no thanks to parenthood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many millennial men are willing & able to (a) be the sole provider so their wives can SAHM, or (b) take on 50% of house and kid responsibilities so their wives can also have a career? I guess option (c) is the men can SAHD but very few women are actually interested in that setup. There is your answer.

I’m not sure if they are 50/50 but they do much more.

I’d say few are interested in (a) or (c)

Many are interested in (a) they're just afraid to say it out loud and be deemed unfeminist.

No they are not.

(A) either end up broke after a marriage and men are no longer willing to give up 50% to someone with no interest in working.

The risk is too high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our system isn't set up for disabled, childless, family less adults. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out.

and our current system is also not set up to support pregnant women, postpartum women, and children under the age of 5. Societally and culturally, children are treated horribly in the US and have effectively, no rights.

Our society isn't really set up to help anyone at all, is it? SS and Medicare aren't "help", we pay for them. Disability income in this society is a joke.

We are a survival of the fittest society. We don't really care about individual suffering. Individual suffering is part of America's soul.

This past weekend, I was working at a volunteer event and with three separate people who very recently moved to the US from different countries - Poland, Taiwan, and Germany.

The immigrants from Poland and Germany said they had to leave Europe and that the "social safety net" will be Europe's destruction and, mark their words, it will not be there in 10 years. These were separate conversations. I have no opinion on their conclusions but those were their conclusions.

The lady from Taiwan? She was happy to be there and ready to pitch in.

I am not AT ALL touting the US system. However, I think people don't have a good grasp on the state of life in other places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a doc who sees people at end of life. If you don’t have kids then it’s really important to focus on building a community of people younger or investing in nieces / nephews. The us is not set up for the elderly without support systems. It’s hard not to have an advocate when you are sick and elderly.

I’d say have daughters too.

You need at least 3 daughters. One daughter is not enough.

Ha, this person is correct. My parents have 3 daughters - one is far away, one has health/mental health issues and does not provide any support, and one lives nearby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our system isn't set up for disabled, childless, family less adults. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out.

and our current system is also not set up to support pregnant women, postpartum women, and children under the age of 5. Societally and culturally, children are treated horribly in the US and have effectively, no rights.

Our society isn't really set up to help anyone at all, is it? SS and Medicare aren't "help", we pay for them. Disability income in this society is a joke.

We are a survival of the fittest society. We don't really care about individual suffering. Individual suffering is part of America's soul.

This past weekend, I was working at a volunteer event and with three separate people who very recently moved to the US from different countries - Poland, Taiwan, and Germany.

The immigrants from Poland and Germany said they had to leave Europe and that the "social safety net" will be Europe's destruction and, mark their words, it will not be there in 10 years. These were separate conversations. I have no opinion on their conclusions but those were their conclusions.

The lady from Taiwan? She was happy to be there and ready to pitch in.

I am not AT ALL touting the US system. However, I think people don't have a good grasp on the state of life in other places.

I mean our system sucks but millennials in Europe aren't having kids either, so it's not just about the safety net.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many millennial men are willing & able to (a) be the sole provider so their wives can SAHM, or (b) take on 50% of house and kid responsibilities so their wives can also have a career? I guess option (c) is the men can SAHD but very few women are actually interested in that setup. There is your answer.

I’m not sure if they are 50/50 but they do much more.

I’d say few are interested in (a) or (c)

Many are interested in (a) they're just afraid to say it out loud and be deemed unfeminist.

No they are not.

(A) either end up broke after a marriage and men are no longer willing to give up 50% to someone with no interest in working.

The risk is too high.

And women are saying no thanks to marrying or procreating with men with these attitudes, hence the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our system isn't set up for disabled, childless, family less adults. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out.

and our current system is also not set up to support pregnant women, postpartum women, and children under the age of 5. Societally and culturally, children are treated horribly in the US and have effectively, no rights.

Our society isn't really set up to help anyone at all, is it? SS and Medicare aren't "help", we pay for them. Disability income in this society is a joke.

We are a survival of the fittest society. We don't really care about individual suffering. Individual suffering is part of America's soul.

This past weekend, I was working at a volunteer event and with three separate people who very recently moved to the US from different countries - Poland, Taiwan, and Germany.

The immigrants from Poland and Germany said they had to leave Europe and that the "social safety net" will be Europe's destruction and, mark their words, it will not be there in 10 years. These were separate conversations. I have no opinion on their conclusions but those were their conclusions.

The lady from Taiwan? She was happy to be there and ready to pitch in.

I am not AT ALL touting the US system. However, I think people don't have a good grasp on the state of life in other places.

I am from an Eastern European country that’s not in the EU.
I think the US social safety net is pretty good, for low income mothers with kids and for low income seniors if they are smart.
That’s why people should take advantage of it while it’s still here. Live with boyfriend, get pregnant, have kids and stay home with them (single mother on paper) and get WIC and SNAP and whatnot.
Even without it - it’s doable. I moved here as a married woman with a small child, middle class level income. It’s not super expensive if you are ok living in a small house.
People are just spoiled honestly. They want a big house, they don’t want to bother with kids, they don’t realize what happens if you are alone and out of your mind and there is no one to safeguard you. Hence they don’t have kids.
People from family oriented cultures who came here from nothing - they know what they are doing and making full use of their new opportunities. They will be the ones at whose mercy the lonely elderly will be pretty soon (in terms of elder care and arranging benefits etc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our system isn't set up for disabled, childless, family less adults. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out.

and our current system is also not set up to support pregnant women, postpartum women, and children under the age of 5. Societally and culturally, children are treated horribly in the US and have effectively, no rights.

Our society isn't really set up to help anyone at all, is it? SS and Medicare aren't "help", we pay for them. Disability income in this society is a joke.

We are a survival of the fittest society. We don't really care about individual suffering. Individual suffering is part of America's soul.

This past weekend, I was working at a volunteer event and with three separate people who very recently moved to the US from different countries - Poland, Taiwan, and Germany.

The immigrants from Poland and Germany said they had to leave Europe and that the "social safety net" will be Europe's destruction and, mark their words, it will not be there in 10 years. These were separate conversations. I have no opinion on their conclusions but those were their conclusions.

The lady from Taiwan? She was happy to be there and ready to pitch in.

I am not AT ALL touting the US system. However, I think people don't have a good grasp on the state of life in other places.

I am from an Eastern European country that’s not in the EU.
I think the US social safety net is pretty good, for low income mothers with kids and for low income seniors if they are smart.
That’s why people should take advantage of it while it’s still here. Live with boyfriend, get pregnant, have kids and stay home with them (single mother on paper) and get WIC and SNAP and whatnot.
Even without it - it’s doable. I moved here as a married woman with a small child, middle class level income. It’s not super expensive if you are ok living in a small house.
People are just spoiled honestly. They want a big house, they don’t want to bother with kids, they don’t realize what happens if you are alone and out of your mind and there is no one to safeguard you. Hence they don’t have kids.
People from family oriented cultures who came here from nothing - they know what they are doing and making full use of their new opportunities. They will be the ones at whose mercy the lonely elderly will be pretty soon (in terms of elder care and arranging benefits etc)

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many millennial men are willing & able to (a) be the sole provider so their wives can SAHM, or (b) take on 50% of house and kid responsibilities so their wives can also have a career? I guess option (c) is the men can SAHD but very few women are actually interested in that setup. There is your answer.

I’m not sure if they are 50/50 but they do much more.

I’d say few are interested in (a) or (c)

Many are interested in (a) they're just afraid to say it out loud and be deemed unfeminist.

No they are not.

(A) either end up broke after a marriage and men are no longer willing to give up 50% to someone with no interest in working.

The risk is too high.

And women are saying no thanks to marrying or procreating with men with these attitudes, hence the thread.

And men are saying no thanks to marrying or procreating with women who don’t want to be an equal partner hence the thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many millennial men are willing & able to (a) be the sole provider so their wives can SAHM, or (b) take on 50% of house and kid responsibilities so their wives can also have a career? I guess option (c) is the men can SAHD but very few women are actually interested in that setup. There is your answer.

A - almost none, because Millennial men in general are immature and lack drive. They want to concentrate on their hobbies, traveling, gaming, etc. Especially the younger ones. Perpetual children. Younger Millennial women, I’d say those born in 1990 and later, have it the worst of all because the younger Millennial men don’t want to get married, if they do get married they don’t want kids until the very late 30s at which point you can run into fertility issues more easily, and they also want the wife to work and earn most of the money and do most of the kid-raising work.

B - lol no. Best you can hope for is treating your husband like a household employee with a list of tasks and delegating to him what needs to be done. Expecting them to be an equal partner and self initiate an equal amount of housework is setting yourself up for disaster.

C - SAHD tend to be older, and retired from something like the military or police. You can retire from the military with benefits after 20 years of service IIRC. So that puts a man around age 40, roughly. I’ve known a few men in this demographic, having kids age 40+ and mostly SAH, maybe doing some part time work, handyman type jobs, etc. They do tend to be really good dads!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many millennial men are willing & able to (a) be the sole provider so their wives can SAHM, or (b) take on 50% of house and kid responsibilities so their wives can also have a career? I guess option (c) is the men can SAHD but very few women are actually interested in that setup. There is your answer.

A - almost none, because Millennial men in general are immature and lack drive. They want to concentrate on their hobbies, traveling, gaming, etc. Especially the younger ones. Perpetual children. Younger Millennial women, I’d say those born in 1990 and later, have it the worst of all because the younger Millennial men don’t want to get married, if they do get married they don’t want kids until the very late 30s at which point you can run into fertility issues more easily, and they also want the wife to work and earn most of the money and do most of the kid-raising work.

B - lol no. Best you can hope for is treating your husband like a household employee with a list of tasks and delegating to him what needs to be done. Expecting them to be an equal partner and self initiate an equal amount of housework is setting yourself up for disaster.

C - SAHD tend to be older, and retired from something like the military or police. You can retire from the military with benefits after 20 years of service IIRC. So that puts a man around age 40, roughly. I’ve known a few men in this demographic, having kids age 40+ and mostly SAH, maybe doing some part time work, handyman type jobs, etc. They do tend to be really good dads!

+1000

Yes to all of this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many millennial men are willing & able to (a) be the sole provider so their wives can SAHM, or (b) take on 50% of house and kid responsibilities so their wives can also have a career? I guess option (c) is the men can SAHD but very few women are actually interested in that setup. There is your answer.

I’m not sure if they are 50/50 but they do much more.

I’d say few are interested in (a) or (c)

Many are interested in (a) they're just afraid to say it out loud and be deemed unfeminist.

No they are not.

(A) either end up broke after a marriage and men are no longer willing to give up 50% to someone with no interest in working.

The risk is too high.

And women are saying no thanks to marrying or procreating with men with these attitudes, hence the thread.

And men are saying no thanks to marrying or procreating with women who don’t want to be an equal partner hence the thread

Expecting women to work FT and do more than 50% of house and kids is not equal partnership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our system isn't set up for disabled, childless, family less adults. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out.

and our current system is also not set up to support pregnant women, postpartum women, and children under the age of 5. Societally and culturally, children are treated horribly in the US and have effectively, no rights.

Our society isn't really set up to help anyone at all, is it? SS and Medicare aren't "help", we pay for them. Disability income in this society is a joke.

We are a survival of the fittest society. We don't really care about individual suffering. Individual suffering is part of America's soul.

Right. So thank goodness some people have the sense to not have children if they can’t afford them or don’t want to pump money into raising them. Too bad more people don’t make cognitive decisions about reproducing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's really about the expectations for parenting. You can't have kids and keep living your pre-kids life without being branded a bad parent. As soon as you have kids, your life becomes kid-centric with playgroups, music classes, sports practices, and on and on. If you aren't interested in this shift, then you don't have kids. In prior generations, people just ignored their kids and went on with their adult lives.

For women, this last part was only true if they were of means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's really about the expectations for parenting. You can't have kids and keep living your pre-kids life without being branded a bad parent. As soon as you have kids, your life becomes kid-centric with playgroups, music classes, sports practices, and on and on. If you aren't interested in this shift, then you don't have kids. In prior generations, people just ignored their kids and went on with their adult lives.

For women, this last part was only true if they were of means.

Not at all. I talked to my grandmother (working class) about raising kids in the 50s and once they were school age (and younger if they had older siblings to watch them) they were basically free-range. They would play with other kids in the street and appear at dinnertime. Absolutely no one bothered with extracurricular activities. When they were teenagers homework, studying and afterschool jobs were up to them. No teenager's mother would be hounding them about their schoolwork or calling the teacher.
Housework/cooking was a woman's burden whether she had children or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our system isn't set up for disabled, childless, family less adults. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out.

and our current system is also not set up to support pregnant women, postpartum women, and children under the age of 5. Societally and culturally, children are treated horribly in the US and have effectively, no rights.

Our society isn't really set up to help anyone at all, is it? SS and Medicare aren't "help", we pay for them. Disability income in this society is a joke.

We are a survival of the fittest society. We don't really care about individual suffering. Individual suffering is part of America's soul.

This past weekend, I was working at a volunteer event and with three separate people who very recently moved to the US from different countries - Poland, Taiwan, and Germany.

The immigrants from Poland and Germany said they had to leave Europe and that the "social safety net" will be Europe's destruction and, mark their words, it will not be there in 10 years. These were separate conversations. I have no opinion on their conclusions but those were their conclusions.

The lady from Taiwan? She was happy to be there and ready to pitch in.

I am not AT ALL touting the US system. However, I think people don't have a good grasp on the state of life in other places.

Consider the people you met left their home counties voluntarily