Should so called “thanksgiving” be a national day of mourning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All races, all groups of human beings, are both good and evil, kind and ruthlessly cruel. All of us. Every group, on every continent, throughout history. If it hadn't been whites, it would have been another group or native Americans themselves. Such is life on planet earth.

We aren’t talking about all groups of humans everywhere. We are specifically talking about Native Americans who once occupied that very spot where you’ll be parked on the couch watching football tomorrow. We are specifically talking about the US government’s violence and oppression of these people.

Just because it happened at other times doesn’t excuse it.

The point is, it’s not “other times.” There are current land treaties that the current US is in violation of. If you are a US citizen, it is your current government (of the people, by the people) that is currently in the wrong.

Have you gifted you house to native Americans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Assimilation is not a bad thing. Wave after wave of immigrants have been assimilated and now are just Americans.

And for better or worse, American Indians have chosen not to assimilate, or to both assimilate and not assimilate. Not sure that some of these posters know this or are willing to acknowledge this.

[Anonymous]

It’s 2022.

Anyone opting to live on a reservation is living in self-imposed segregation.

They opt to live there and can’t get mortgages because there’s no way for a lender to foreclose if they default. The end result is subpar housing. That’s a choice they are making by living there. Nobody is forcing them to remain

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like it to be 2 days too. Maybe Thanksgiving Thursday stays, and day after, Friday, is a Native American day of remembrance.

I’d like this. I’d like it even more if we could do celebrate with something other than a shopping frenzy.

Why do you hate America

NP. I hate genocide.

Tell that to the Aztecs. They slaughtered thousands of other Native-American tribes in Mexico long before any Europeans arrived.

So did the Comanches.

There’s a reason some Indians fought with the new settlers: they hated the other tribes.

You know the saying: the enemy of my enemy…

Ok. The Comanche Nation can decide how to address violence it committed against other tribes.

And the US government can determine how to address violence it committed against all tribes.

The government has already given them tax free land where the US has no jurisdiction (can’t make arrests or enforce laws, can’t repossess cars they default on, etc). The government also gave them gaming rights/casinos which more than support some tribes.

The end result of their arguably privileged status isn’t great (rampant alcoholism and family violence/sexual abuse/murder-“disappearance.”

They got what freed slaves never got. Hard to say who fared better. Their self-imposed segregation gave them land, money and autonomy, but they were also largely forgotten on the east coast and elsewhere. Plus all the bad stuff that happens on their land due to their set up.

“Privileged” to get crappy scraps of land?

“Privileged” to be massacred?

“Privileged” to be forced to assimilate?

The US killed them, took their resources, took their culture. And you blame them for their current condition? Disgusting.

I’m talking about modern times.

A comparative study on Indians and black outcomes demonstrates interesting differences. There are studies on health outcomes (noting health is largely dictated by place), poverty rates, alcoholism, etc.

Gentle tip: it’s rather paternalistic to position non-whites as victims in 2022. It’s also rather racist to examine everything (history and modern day) through the lens of white people.

[Anonymous]

I'm really curious how some of you feel about the Jewish diaspora and Israel.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All races, all groups of human beings, are both good and evil, kind and ruthlessly cruel. All of us. Every group, on every continent, throughout history. If it hadn't been whites, it would have been another group or native Americans themselves. Such is life on planet earth.

We aren’t talking about all groups of humans everywhere. We are specifically talking about Native Americans who once occupied that very spot where you’ll be parked on the couch watching football tomorrow. We are specifically talking about the US government’s violence and oppression of these people.

Just because it happened at other times doesn’t excuse it.

The point is, it’s not “other times.” There are current land treaties that the current US is in violation of. If you are a US citizen, it is your current government (of the people, by the people) that is currently in the wrong.

Have you gifted you house to native Americans?

I’m enrolled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s 2022.

Anyone opting to live on a reservation is living in self-imposed segregation.

They opt to live there and can’t get mortgages because there’s no way for a lender to foreclose if they default. The end result is subpar housing. That’s a choice they are making by living there. Nobody is forcing them to remain

Sorry we took away your livelihood by killing all the buffalo and reducing your territory to one tenth it’s original size, but really, it’s your fault if you can’t make it work.

[Anonymous]

Do you know other cultures have Thanksgiving to celebrate the harvest? They didn’t all conquer North America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assimilation is not a bad thing. Wave after wave of immigrants have been assimilated and now are just Americans.

And for better or worse, American Indians have chosen not to assimilate, or to both assimilate and not assimilate. Not sure that some of these posters know this or are willing to acknowledge this.

They were FORCED to assimilate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All races, all groups of human beings, are both good and evil, kind and ruthlessly cruel. All of us. Every group, on every continent, throughout history. If it hadn't been whites, it would have been another group or native Americans themselves. Such is life on planet earth.

We aren’t talking about all groups of humans everywhere. We are specifically talking about Native Americans who once occupied that very spot where you’ll be parked on the couch watching football tomorrow. We are specifically talking about the US government’s violence and oppression of these people.

Just because it happened at other times doesn’t excuse it.

The point is, it’s not “other times.” There are current land treaties that the current US is in violation of. If you are a US citizen, it is your current government (of the people, by the people) that is currently in the wrong.

The point is, it doesn't matter what group it is. Someone would be parked on the couch and someone would be out of luck, anywhere, any time in history. This is life on earth. No, this is not a national day of mourning. Suffering is part of life. Find a way to be positive instead of stupidly, natively negative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assimilation is not a bad thing. Wave after wave of immigrants have been assimilated and now are just Americans.

And for better or worse, American Indians have chosen not to assimilate, or to both assimilate and not assimilate. Not sure that some of these posters know this or are willing to acknowledge this.

They were here first. Europeans chose not to assimilate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s 2022.

Anyone opting to live on a reservation is living in self-imposed segregation.

They opt to live there and can’t get mortgages because there’s no way for a lender to foreclose if they default. The end result is subpar housing. That’s a choice they are making by living there. Nobody is forcing them to remain

Sorry we took away your livelihood by killing all the buffalo and reducing your territory to one tenth it’s original size, but really, it’s your fault if you can’t make it work.

I agree that the Europeans who arrived and eventually built our American democracy committed many atrocities against Indians—as well as against the European women and American women. And the poor. And the Africans brought here in chains and their progeny. Lots of really awful stuff.

But I’m talking about now. 2022.

Read up on what’s happening in Indian country now. It’s awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you know other cultures have Thanksgiving to celebrate the harvest? They didn’t all conquer North America.

So maybe we shouldn’t have based this holiday on the myth about “pilgrims and Indians”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s 2022.

Anyone opting to live on a reservation is living in self-imposed segregation.

They opt to live there and can’t get mortgages because there’s no way for a lender to foreclose if they default. The end result is subpar housing. That’s a choice they are making by living there. Nobody is forcing them to remain

Sorry we took away your livelihood by killing all the buffalo and reducing your territory to one tenth it’s original size, but really, it’s your fault if you can’t make it work.

I agree that the Europeans who arrived and eventually built our American democracy committed many atrocities against Indians—as well as against the European women and American women. And the poor. And the Africans brought here in chains and their progeny. Lots of really awful stuff.

But I’m talking about now. 2022.

Read up on what’s happening in Indian country now. It’s awful.

You can’t connect how what happened over the last few centuries impacts people today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assimilation is not a bad thing. Wave after wave of immigrants have been assimilated and now are just Americans.

And for better or worse, American Indians have chosen not to assimilate, or to both assimilate and not assimilate. Not sure that some of these posters know this or are willing to acknowledge this.

They were here first. Europeans chose not to assimilate.

Civilizations evolve and change over time. War. Climate. Myriad factors impact the course of history and the evolution of civilization. And maps. And hearts and minds.