Should so called “thanksgiving” be a national day of mourning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The fact that thanksgiving was giving different meanings depending on the era, tells you something wasn't right from the beginning. Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.

Wow. I’ve heard the “pilgrims were awful” argument against thanksgiving for years. But this might be the first time I heard someone object to the holiday because they hate giving thanks.

pp show me the part where i specifically said i hate giving thanks. Dense much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The fact that thanksgiving was giving different meanings depending on the era, tells you something wasn't right from the beginning. Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.

Wow. I’ve heard the “pilgrims were awful” argument against thanksgiving for years. But this might be the first time I heard someone object to the holiday because they hate giving thanks.

Agree. Wow, just wow, as what's-her-name says.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The fact that thanksgiving was giving different meanings depending on the era, tells you something wasn't right from the beginning. Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.

Wow. I’ve heard the “pilgrims were awful” argument against thanksgiving for years. But this might be the first time I heard someone object to the holiday because they hate giving thanks.

Agree. Wow, just wow, as what's-her-name says.

But why does she need to give thanks? She's an island unto her lonely bitter self with nothing and nobody to thank. It's probably all too much work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The fact that thanksgiving was giving different meanings depending on the era, tells you something wasn't right from the beginning. Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.

Wow. I’ve heard the “pilgrims were awful” argument against thanksgiving for years. But this might be the first time I heard someone object to the holiday because they hate giving thanks.

pp show me the part where i specifically said i hate giving thanks. Dense much?

+1

This thread has made me thankful that my kids know how to read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The fact that thanksgiving was giving different meanings depending on the era, tells you something wasn't right from the beginning. Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.

Wow. I’ve heard the “pilgrims were awful” argument against thanksgiving for years. But this might be the first time I heard someone object to the holiday because they hate giving thanks.

pp show me the part where i specifically said i hate giving thanks. Dense much?

Pardon me for paraphrasing you. You said “Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.”

So perhaps you don’t hate giving thanks. You just don’t think you should have to do it, you don’t know what to be thankful for, and you think that celebrating what we have been given is “nonsense.”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Do you know other cultures have Thanksgiving to celebrate the harvest? They didn’t all conquer North America.

So maybe we shouldn’t have based this holiday on the myth about “pilgrims and Indians”.

Schools are dropping any mention of Indians at all. It's not just turkeys and Pilgrims. Sounds like that ought to make some people happy, everyone will just forget about them.

Yup. They want to pretend like it never happened. Or the people aren’t still suffering today.

Revisionist history to the max.

Not so much revisionist as irrelevant. People are moving forward, why should they dwell on the past when it has nothing to do with them? Obviously the people who were hurt feel differently, but they aren't making much of an impact convincing anyone else to put their needs first. Everyone has their own problems these days.

Why do we bother to learn any history at all? It all happened in the past. Why dwell on any of it?

Maybe if we don’t sugar coat history just to make white people feel comfortable then we can learn from our mistakes and do better in the future.

Ha, as if white people are only bad. So do the Plymouth protestors also cover the section in history where native Americans own African slaves? Yes, it really existed:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-native-american-slaveholders-complicate-trail-tears-narrative-180968339/

Let's also not even get into the entire violent and oppressive histories all across Asia, the Arab slave trade, etc. It's almost as if everyone's history is filled with oppression.

Go crawl under a rock and cry about it, because it will never end.

Strawman. We are talking about *our* history and treatment of indigenous people.

Yes, enslaving people is bad. Also, mass murdering and oppressing indigenous people is wrong.

Why is it so difficult for some people to acknowledge that?

Indigenous history is our history. They owned slaves. Why are we whitewashing native American history? They were slave owners.

Right. The Asian and Arab slave trade is not our history.

As I already said, yes, enslaving people is bad. No one has claimed otherwise.

Also, mass murdering and oppressing indigenous people is wrong. Wouldn’t you agree?

Sure oppressing people is wrong. Germany is wrong for killing millions of Jews. Japan is wrong for killing millions during WW2 too. I don't think Germany and Japan need to be forced to 'mourn' or have a day of 'repenting' for what they did. History is history.

Germany and Japan each paid massive reparations and we do have memorial days. ??

These are people living within our country. Our responsibility continues. Acknowledging their loss is the least we should do.

We already have Indigenous Peoples' Day. And yet, that's not good enough even thought that's what you're asking for. So, what do you really want to happen?

I’m not personally asking for anything.

On Thanksgiving, I do think we, the people in the US, should acknowledge the reality/perspective of the other people who were at this feast of our lore. If we are reflecting on all that we have, we can acknowledge there was also a massive human cost behind it.

Outside this holiday, we, the people of the US, should fix the wrongs that still persist today.

Exactly how would you like people to acknowledge the human cost? Should Grandma say "I'm sorry for the Trail of Tears, but thankful for my health" every year? What does that accomplish exactly? Say whatever you like at your table but the performative aspect of what you are suggesting is ridiculous. And until you give up your home and property to fix the wrongs you're a hypocrite. We also means you.

We could acknowledge it in public schools. Include multiple perspectives of history.

In addition to pardoning turkeys, the POTUS could host a function for tribal leaders. Broadcast between football games.

If they are part of “the story”, include their voice.

Cool, you get on that PSA. Your average person isn't going to tune into a function for tribal leaders. And they will be using the restroom between football games. Are you always this ineffective at change? Lot of lip service with no real impact. Embarrassing. Are you an actual adult?

Yes, many Americans are indifferent and willfully choose ignorance.

Please share with us what you have done to right this wrong? Flowery statements acknowledging the history do nothing, what actual things have you done to make a tiny bit of difference? Put your money where your mouth is.

How exactly can I make millions of Americans less indifferent or ignorant? That’s a tough one.

You’re a hypocrite. As expected. All bark and no bite.

Yup. And terminally, terminally smug and boring. No one’s going to give her and her attitude the time of day. Such a turnoff.

Uh, we're discussing issues, not particular peoples' personalities. A turnoff is someone trying to engage in an intellectual exchange who resorts to shallow insults like the ones above. Sheesh, up your game, PPs.

I guess the PPs don’t have much substance behind their argument that Americans should be indifferent and ignorant about Native American history.

DP here.

Of course I regret colonization and the mass slaughter of Native Americans. And I can probably speak for everybody else here that they do, too.

On a much smaller scale, though, I regret performative bs like histrionics and insults on DCUM that accomplish nothing. Hypocrisy doesn’t further any cause, it undermines it.

There is nothing “hypocritical” about wanting more public awareness of the real Native American story around Thanksgiving or wanting broader changes to make things right.

Of course, and I agree.

But, there's everything "hypocritical" about ranting on DCUM yet doing nothing IRL to further the change you want. DCUM rants are worth squat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Another attempt to ruin a holiday by shaming Americans.

Get your own holiday to cry over.

America does have a dark past. We should reflect on the massive human cost of building this country.

-Mayflower descendant

The funny thing is that the most obnoxious commenters on this topic likely arrived more than one hundred years after your family.

I arrived 44 years ago, almost to the day. What’s your point? I give two figs what some internet cosplay Mayflower descendant says? That entitles them to what, exactly, in terms of moral authority or understanding of the situation?

Best I can tell from your perspective an actual Mayflower descendant is up to their elbows in blood and owes all kinds of land and reparations. You should go over her house and take what you want from her garage. Leave me out of it. I’ll be sitting comfortably in my house with friends and family, drinking wine and watching football, thanking the good Lord I managed to navigate UMC American life without being indoctrinated to feel so much shame and joylessness about my country, culture, and self.

Enjoy your day of mourning.

None of what you’re enjoying would be possible without the genocide of indigenous people (and enslaved people). Pretty sh1tty you won’t even *acknowledge* that.

It’s not about shame, it’s about awareness and acknowledgement.

Let me say this clearly for the thick-headed and those in the back: We don’t care. Truly, we DO NOT CARE. Certainly not on Thanksgiving.

Every single country, culture, civilization, race, ethnicity, and every other category of human being you can come up with has a history of murder, rape, genocide, conquering, seizing land, expelling others, committing atrocities, rewriting history, and myth making its own origin story. Point me to a group that didn’t do this and I’ll extend the timeline and show you you’re full of sh&t. Africans did more enslaving and slave trading than white Europeans. Asians were annihilating cities and stacking skulls 50 feet high well before Columbus. The Japanese created hell for Chinese and Koreans across centuries of war. Both returned serve, and hey look over there the Chinese are doing it to the Uighurs in real time! Persians and Muslims, right this way! The havoc and terror brought on South America by the Conquistadors and other Euro settlers was catastrophic… unless you compare it to the torture and misery doled out routinely by the Aztecs before they got there.

Humanity has been rough business. Get over it.

Tell me you have a piss poor knowledge of history without telling me you have piss poor knowledge of history. Everything you wrote is demonstrably false. What's worse is that, you wrote it with such confidence . If i were you, I'd refrain from talking about Africa unless you want me to embarrass and lay bare your idiocy masqueraded as knowledge of history.

DP. OK, show us what's "demonstrably false" about anything pp said. You're the ignorant one, trying to bluff your way through this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: The fact that thanksgiving was giving different meanings depending on the era, tells you something wasn't right from the beginning. Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.

Wow, somebody even posted above what "Thanksgiving" meant to the pilgrims, and apparently you didn't read it. Notably, thanksgiving after war required fasting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The fact that thanksgiving was giving different meanings depending on the era, tells you something wasn't right from the beginning. Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.

Wow. I’ve heard the “pilgrims were awful” argument against thanksgiving for years. But this might be the first time I heard someone object to the holiday because they hate giving thanks.

pp show me the part where i specifically said i hate giving thanks. Dense much?

Pardon me for paraphrasing you. You said “Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.”

So perhaps you don’t hate giving thanks. You just don’t think you should have to do it, you don’t know what to be thankful for, and you think that celebrating what we have been given is “nonsense.”

DP. You are still misreading that post.

PP is specifically talking about thanksgiving, not being thankful in general.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you know other cultures have Thanksgiving to celebrate the harvest? They didn’t all conquer North America.

So maybe we shouldn’t have based this holiday on the myth about “pilgrims and Indians”.

Schools are dropping any mention of Indians at all. It's not just turkeys and Pilgrims. Sounds like that ought to make some people happy, everyone will just forget about them.

Yup. They want to pretend like it never happened. Or the people aren’t still suffering today.

Revisionist history to the max.

Not so much revisionist as irrelevant. People are moving forward, why should they dwell on the past when it has nothing to do with them? Obviously the people who were hurt feel differently, but they aren't making much of an impact convincing anyone else to put their needs first. Everyone has their own problems these days.

Why do we bother to learn any history at all? It all happened in the past. Why dwell on any of it?

Maybe if we don’t sugar coat history just to make white people feel comfortable then we can learn from our mistakes and do better in the future.

Ha, as if white people are only bad. So do the Plymouth protestors also cover the section in history where native Americans own African slaves? Yes, it really existed:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-native-american-slaveholders-complicate-trail-tears-narrative-180968339/

Let's also not even get into the entire violent and oppressive histories all across Asia, the Arab slave trade, etc. It's almost as if everyone's history is filled with oppression.

Go crawl under a rock and cry about it, because it will never end.

Strawman. We are talking about *our* history and treatment of indigenous people.

Yes, enslaving people is bad. Also, mass murdering and oppressing indigenous people is wrong.

Why is it so difficult for some people to acknowledge that?

Indigenous history is our history. They owned slaves. Why are we whitewashing native American history? They were slave owners.

Right. The Asian and Arab slave trade is not our history.

As I already said, yes, enslaving people is bad. No one has claimed otherwise.

Also, mass murdering and oppressing indigenous people is wrong. Wouldn’t you agree?

Sure oppressing people is wrong. Germany is wrong for killing millions of Jews. Japan is wrong for killing millions during WW2 too. I don't think Germany and Japan need to be forced to 'mourn' or have a day of 'repenting' for what they did. History is history.

Germany and Japan each paid massive reparations and we do have memorial days. ??

These are people living within our country. Our responsibility continues. Acknowledging their loss is the least we should do.

We already have Indigenous Peoples' Day. And yet, that's not good enough even thought that's what you're asking for. So, what do you really want to happen?

I’m not personally asking for anything.

On Thanksgiving, I do think we, the people in the US, should acknowledge the reality/perspective of the other people who were at this feast of our lore. If we are reflecting on all that we have, we can acknowledge there was also a massive human cost behind it.

Outside this holiday, we, the people of the US, should fix the wrongs that still persist today.

Exactly how would you like people to acknowledge the human cost? Should Grandma say "I'm sorry for the Trail of Tears, but thankful for my health" every year? What does that accomplish exactly? Say whatever you like at your table but the performative aspect of what you are suggesting is ridiculous. And until you give up your home and property to fix the wrongs you're a hypocrite. We also means you.

We could acknowledge it in public schools. Include multiple perspectives of history.

In addition to pardoning turkeys, the POTUS could host a function for tribal leaders. Broadcast between football games.

If they are part of “the story”, include their voice.

Cool, you get on that PSA. Your average person isn't going to tune into a function for tribal leaders. And they will be using the restroom between football games. Are you always this ineffective at change? Lot of lip service with no real impact. Embarrassing. Are you an actual adult?

Yes, many Americans are indifferent and willfully choose ignorance.

Please share with us what you have done to right this wrong? Flowery statements acknowledging the history do nothing, what actual things have you done to make a tiny bit of difference? Put your money where your mouth is.

How exactly can I make millions of Americans less indifferent or ignorant? That’s a tough one.

You’re a hypocrite. As expected. All bark and no bite.

Yup. And terminally, terminally smug and boring. No one’s going to give her and her attitude the time of day. Such a turnoff.

Uh, we're discussing issues, not particular peoples' personalities. A turnoff is someone trying to engage in an intellectual exchange who resorts to shallow insults like the ones above. Sheesh, up your game, PPs.

I guess the PPs don’t have much substance behind their argument that Americans should be indifferent and ignorant about Native American history.

DP here.

Of course I regret colonization and the mass slaughter of Native Americans. And I can probably speak for everybody else here that they do, too.

On a much smaller scale, though, I regret performative bs like histrionics and insults on DCUM that accomplish nothing. Hypocrisy doesn’t further any cause, it undermines it.

There is nothing “hypocritical” about wanting more public awareness of the real Native American story around Thanksgiving or wanting broader changes to make things right.

Of course, and I agree.

But, there's everything "hypocritical" about ranting on DCUM yet doing nothing IRL to further the change you want. DCUM rants are worth squat.

That’s not hypocritical. I haven’t said people should do anything I don’t do myself.

And you are making assumptions about what I do - or don’t do - IRL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The fact that thanksgiving was giving different meanings depending on the era, tells you something wasn't right from the beginning. Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.

Wow. I’ve heard the “pilgrims were awful” argument against thanksgiving for years. But this might be the first time I heard someone object to the holiday because they hate giving thanks.

pp show me the part where i specifically said i hate giving thanks. Dense much?

Pardon me for paraphrasing you. You said “Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.”

So perhaps you don’t hate giving thanks. You just don’t think you should have to do it, you don’t know what to be thankful for, and you think that celebrating what we have been given is “nonsense.”

DP. You are still misreading that post.

PP is specifically talking about thanksgiving, not being thankful in general.

Nope. That PPs message was correctly understood by most. Try rereading it again. She doesn’t know who or why to give thanks. On any day. Her parents must be so proud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you know other cultures have Thanksgiving to celebrate the harvest? They didn’t all conquer North America.

So maybe we shouldn’t have based this holiday on the myth about “pilgrims and Indians”.

Schools are dropping any mention of Indians at all. It's not just turkeys and Pilgrims. Sounds like that ought to make some people happy, everyone will just forget about them.

Yup. They want to pretend like it never happened. Or the people aren’t still suffering today.

Revisionist history to the max.

Not so much revisionist as irrelevant. People are moving forward, why should they dwell on the past when it has nothing to do with them? Obviously the people who were hurt feel differently, but they aren't making much of an impact convincing anyone else to put their needs first. Everyone has their own problems these days.

Why do we bother to learn any history at all? It all happened in the past. Why dwell on any of it?

Maybe if we don’t sugar coat history just to make white people feel comfortable then we can learn from our mistakes and do better in the future.

Ha, as if white people are only bad. So do the Plymouth protestors also cover the section in history where native Americans own African slaves? Yes, it really existed:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-native-american-slaveholders-complicate-trail-tears-narrative-180968339/

Let's also not even get into the entire violent and oppressive histories all across Asia, the Arab slave trade, etc. It's almost as if everyone's history is filled with oppression.

Go crawl under a rock and cry about it, because it will never end.

Strawman. We are talking about *our* history and treatment of indigenous people.

Yes, enslaving people is bad. Also, mass murdering and oppressing indigenous people is wrong.

Why is it so difficult for some people to acknowledge that?

Indigenous history is our history. They owned slaves. Why are we whitewashing native American history? They were slave owners.

Right. The Asian and Arab slave trade is not our history.

As I already said, yes, enslaving people is bad. No one has claimed otherwise.

Also, mass murdering and oppressing indigenous people is wrong. Wouldn’t you agree?

Sure oppressing people is wrong. Germany is wrong for killing millions of Jews. Japan is wrong for killing millions during WW2 too. I don't think Germany and Japan need to be forced to 'mourn' or have a day of 'repenting' for what they did. History is history.

Germany and Japan each paid massive reparations and we do have memorial days. ??

These are people living within our country. Our responsibility continues. Acknowledging their loss is the least we should do.

We already have Indigenous Peoples' Day. And yet, that's not good enough even thought that's what you're asking for. So, what do you really want to happen?

I’m not personally asking for anything.

On Thanksgiving, I do think we, the people in the US, should acknowledge the reality/perspective of the other people who were at this feast of our lore. If we are reflecting on all that we have, we can acknowledge there was also a massive human cost behind it.

Outside this holiday, we, the people of the US, should fix the wrongs that still persist today.

Exactly how would you like people to acknowledge the human cost? Should Grandma say "I'm sorry for the Trail of Tears, but thankful for my health" every year? What does that accomplish exactly? Say whatever you like at your table but the performative aspect of what you are suggesting is ridiculous. And until you give up your home and property to fix the wrongs you're a hypocrite. We also means you.

We could acknowledge it in public schools. Include multiple perspectives of history.

In addition to pardoning turkeys, the POTUS could host a function for tribal leaders. Broadcast between football games.

If they are part of “the story”, include their voice.

Cool, you get on that PSA. Your average person isn't going to tune into a function for tribal leaders. And they will be using the restroom between football games. Are you always this ineffective at change? Lot of lip service with no real impact. Embarrassing. Are you an actual adult?

Yes, many Americans are indifferent and willfully choose ignorance.

Please share with us what you have done to right this wrong? Flowery statements acknowledging the history do nothing, what actual things have you done to make a tiny bit of difference? Put your money where your mouth is.

How exactly can I make millions of Americans less indifferent or ignorant? That’s a tough one.

You’re a hypocrite. As expected. All bark and no bite.

Yup. And terminally, terminally smug and boring. No one’s going to give her and her attitude the time of day. Such a turnoff.

Uh, we're discussing issues, not particular peoples' personalities. A turnoff is someone trying to engage in an intellectual exchange who resorts to shallow insults like the ones above. Sheesh, up your game, PPs.

I guess the PPs don’t have much substance behind their argument that Americans should be indifferent and ignorant about Native American history.

DP here.

Of course I regret colonization and the mass slaughter of Native Americans. And I can probably speak for everybody else here that they do, too.

On a much smaller scale, though, I regret performative bs like histrionics and insults on DCUM that accomplish nothing. Hypocrisy doesn’t further any cause, it undermines it.

There is nothing “hypocritical” about wanting more public awareness of the real Native American story around Thanksgiving or wanting broader changes to make things right.

Of course, and I agree.

But, there's everything "hypocritical" about ranting on DCUM yet doing nothing IRL to further the change you want. DCUM rants are worth squat.

That’s not hypocritical. I haven’t said people should do anything I don’t do myself.

And you are making assumptions about what I do - or don’t do - IRL.

So what DO you do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The fact that thanksgiving was giving different meanings depending on the era, tells you something wasn't right from the beginning. Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.

Wow. I’ve heard the “pilgrims were awful” argument against thanksgiving for years. But this might be the first time I heard someone object to the holiday because they hate giving thanks.

pp show me the part where i specifically said i hate giving thanks. Dense much?

Pardon me for paraphrasing you. You said “Furthermore, why the heck do i need a day to give thanks? and, to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ? The good news is, with the rapid demographic changes taking shape in this country, that nonsense will be something celebrated only by a fringe group in the future.”

So perhaps you don’t hate giving thanks. You just don’t think you should have to do it, you don’t know what to be thankful for, and you think that celebrating what we have been given is “nonsense.”

DP. You are still misreading that post.

PP is specifically talking about thanksgiving, not being thankful in general.

Nope. That PPs message was correctly understood by most. Try rereading it again. She doesn’t know who or why to give thanks. On any day. Her parents must be so proud.

No, PP was specifically asking about Thanksgiving.

“why the heck do i need a day to give thanks?“
Some people express gratitude all of the time and don’t need an arbitrary day to do it.

to who am i supposed to give thanks to
to who am i supposed to give thanks to? and for what ?
What were the objectives of the people who fabricated modern day thanksgiving?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you know other cultures have Thanksgiving to celebrate the harvest? They didn’t all conquer North America.

So maybe we shouldn’t have based this holiday on the myth about “pilgrims and Indians”.

Schools are dropping any mention of Indians at all. It's not just turkeys and Pilgrims. Sounds like that ought to make some people happy, everyone will just forget about them.

Yup. They want to pretend like it never happened. Or the people aren’t still suffering today.

Revisionist history to the max.

Not so much revisionist as irrelevant. People are moving forward, why should they dwell on the past when it has nothing to do with them? Obviously the people who were hurt feel differently, but they aren't making much of an impact convincing anyone else to put their needs first. Everyone has their own problems these days.

Why do we bother to learn any history at all? It all happened in the past. Why dwell on any of it?

Maybe if we don’t sugar coat history just to make white people feel comfortable then we can learn from our mistakes and do better in the future.

Ha, as if white people are only bad. So do the Plymouth protestors also cover the section in history where native Americans own African slaves? Yes, it really existed:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-native-american-slaveholders-complicate-trail-tears-narrative-180968339/

Let's also not even get into the entire violent and oppressive histories all across Asia, the Arab slave trade, etc. It's almost as if everyone's history is filled with oppression.

Go crawl under a rock and cry about it, because it will never end.

Strawman. We are talking about *our* history and treatment of indigenous people.

Yes, enslaving people is bad. Also, mass murdering and oppressing indigenous people is wrong.

Why is it so difficult for some people to acknowledge that?

Indigenous history is our history. They owned slaves. Why are we whitewashing native American history? They were slave owners.

Right. The Asian and Arab slave trade is not our history.

As I already said, yes, enslaving people is bad. No one has claimed otherwise.

Also, mass murdering and oppressing indigenous people is wrong. Wouldn’t you agree?

Sure oppressing people is wrong. Germany is wrong for killing millions of Jews. Japan is wrong for killing millions during WW2 too. I don't think Germany and Japan need to be forced to 'mourn' or have a day of 'repenting' for what they did. History is history.

Germany and Japan each paid massive reparations and we do have memorial days. ??

These are people living within our country. Our responsibility continues. Acknowledging their loss is the least we should do.

We already have Indigenous Peoples' Day. And yet, that's not good enough even thought that's what you're asking for. So, what do you really want to happen?

I’m not personally asking for anything.

On Thanksgiving, I do think we, the people in the US, should acknowledge the reality/perspective of the other people who were at this feast of our lore. If we are reflecting on all that we have, we can acknowledge there was also a massive human cost behind it.

Outside this holiday, we, the people of the US, should fix the wrongs that still persist today.

Exactly how would you like people to acknowledge the human cost? Should Grandma say "I'm sorry for the Trail of Tears, but thankful for my health" every year? What does that accomplish exactly? Say whatever you like at your table but the performative aspect of what you are suggesting is ridiculous. And until you give up your home and property to fix the wrongs you're a hypocrite. We also means you.

We could acknowledge it in public schools. Include multiple perspectives of history.

In addition to pardoning turkeys, the POTUS could host a function for tribal leaders. Broadcast between football games.

If they are part of “the story”, include their voice.

Cool, you get on that PSA. Your average person isn't going to tune into a function for tribal leaders. And they will be using the restroom between football games. Are you always this ineffective at change? Lot of lip service with no real impact. Embarrassing. Are you an actual adult?

Yes, many Americans are indifferent and willfully choose ignorance.

Please share with us what you have done to right this wrong? Flowery statements acknowledging the history do nothing, what actual things have you done to make a tiny bit of difference? Put your money where your mouth is.

How exactly can I make millions of Americans less indifferent or ignorant? That’s a tough one.

You’re a hypocrite. As expected. All bark and no bite.

Yup. And terminally, terminally smug and boring. No one’s going to give her and her attitude the time of day. Such a turnoff.

Uh, we're discussing issues, not particular peoples' personalities. A turnoff is someone trying to engage in an intellectual exchange who resorts to shallow insults like the ones above. Sheesh, up your game, PPs.

I guess the PPs don’t have much substance behind their argument that Americans should be indifferent and ignorant about Native American history.

DP here.

Of course I regret colonization and the mass slaughter of Native Americans. And I can probably speak for everybody else here that they do, too.

On a much smaller scale, though, I regret performative bs like histrionics and insults on DCUM that accomplish nothing. Hypocrisy doesn’t further any cause, it undermines it.

There is nothing “hypocritical” about wanting more public awareness of the real Native American story around Thanksgiving or wanting broader changes to make things right.

Of course, and I agree.

But, there's everything "hypocritical" about ranting on DCUM yet doing nothing IRL to further the change you want. DCUM rants are worth squat.

That’s not hypocritical. I haven’t said people should do anything I don’t do myself.

And you are making assumptions about what I do - or don’t do - IRL.

So what DO you do?

+1. Besides being the armchair warrior who gets up peoples' noses on DCUM and, surprise, alienates people from the cause.

[Anonymous]

I hate it when people use "who" after a preposition when it should be "to whom."