Whoopi says the Holocaust was not about race

[Anonymous]

I think Whoopigate is highlighting a number of tensions in our current divisive time where many people feel like certain groups/issues must compete for “who has it the worst.”

We’re getting bogged down in purist definitions of race precisely because some don’t want to equate antisemitism with racism…as if one is worse than the other.

Guess what? They are both equally bad.

Saying Judaism is just a religion like Catholicism, etc. really misses the mark. Most Jews are born into not only the faith, but a Jewish culture that includes a language, foods, and a way of life. Muslims should understand.

While anyone can convert, that’s not the same as being born into a Jewish family.

[Anonymous]

For those who really want to understand and learn - I thought this op-Ed does a really good job:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/02/whoopi-goldberg-holocaust-race/

“Whoopi Goldberg isn’t the only one who doesn’t understand antisemitism
Of course the Holocaust was about race. But it’s no longer surprising that there’s some dispute about that.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Whoopigate is highlighting a number of tensions in our current divisive time where many people feel like certain groups/issues must compete for “who has it the worst.”

We’re getting bogged down in purist definitions of race precisely because some don’t want to equate antisemitism with racism…as if one is worse than the other.

Guess what? They are both equally bad.

Saying Judaism is just a religion like Catholicism, etc. really misses the mark. Most Jews are born into not only the faith, but a Jewish culture that includes a language, foods, and a way of life. Muslims should understand.

While anyone can convert, that’s not the same as being born into a Jewish family.

Nah, there are a lot of people who found out they had some Ashkenazi genes through DNA, but they aren't Jewish. In fact, there are Jews who practice Judaism, have done so for generations, but the lineage is not maternal, thus,according to Jewish law, are not Jews, which according to your definition makes no sense at all. Enough. You cannot describe a Jew genetically any more- and that goes for any celebrity with a dumb idea...like the recent outcry at Katherine Hahn playing a Jewish woman. So dumb to have a problem with that. Judaism isn't racial.

Hitler wanted to create a master race. Jews aren't a race, but he didn't want them in. He didn't want Romas, blacks, disabled people ,homosexuals, albinos...the list goes on.


Here is a great summary of the concept. Best I've seen so far:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CZesRmXBMNT/?utm_medium=copy_link

[Anonymous]

However, the Jews in Europe were murdered as they were deemed to be an inferior race by the Nazis, so it was about Hitler's misconception of race, and it was about his determination to create a master race. So it was racial.

Exactly. It was an ignorant comment on her part, because it shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of what the Holocaust was about.

[Anonymous]

However, the Jews in Europe were murdered as they were deemed to be an inferior race by the Nazis, so it was about Hitler's misconception of race, and it was about his determination to create a master race. So it was racial.


I'm bumping this for the poster who said they grew up in the South and seems to genuinely want to understand the debate, because this is the best description I've seen in the entire thread.

With that said, this is a nuanced argument. It requires a pretty specific understanding of Hitler's motivations as well as the degree to which "race" has been understood/deployed across different periods of time.

Jews are not a race by the current, North American, definition of race. They were a race by Hitlers understanding and rhetoric. To understand that, you need to understand that the meaning of the word race has shifted across time and geography, and remains a social construct.

I'm not sure I'm ready to come down on Goldberg too hard for not having that nuanced understanding.

But why was it necessary for her to offer an opinion on something she didn't understand or know about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nazis viewed Jews as a race and used racial “purity” tests. The key point is that the Nazis sought to exterminate the Jewish people. Her comments were weird and cruel.

Made even more “weird” by the history of racial segregation in the US that, no doubt, classified Jews from European backgrounds as “white”, So we have the Nazi’s view of race, the US view of race and “racial purity tests” that predate the Nazis, and we’re struggling to communicate our concerns using today’s standards.

Who’s we? Also, struggling with what concern?

Those of us who are trying to use our own categories: such as race, religion, and ethnicity— to describe and discuss concerns related to identify that may not fit neatly, or even at all, into those categories.

How did you respond to the census question regarding your race?

I checked Black. Culturally, and legally — in line with America’s historic “one drop” rule.

I have relatives who are Black and Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Judaism is not a race, it is an ethnicity that does, for some, incorporate a blood lineage. But, there are others that practice Judaism, who are not genetically linked to these ethnic groups- and Jews can be just about any race. However, the Jews in Europe were murdered as they were deemed to be an inferior race by the Nazis, so it was about Hitler's misconception of race, and it was about his determination to create a master race. So it was racial.

I'm bumping this for the poster who said they grew up in the South and seems to genuinely want to understand the debate, because this is the best description I've seen in the entire thread.

With that said, this is a nuanced argument. It requires a pretty specific understanding of Hitler's motivations as well as the degree to which "race" has been understood/deployed across different periods of time.

Jews are not a race by the current, North American, definition of race. They were a race by Hitlers understanding and rhetoric. To understand that, you need to understand that the meaning of the word race has shifted across time and geography, and remains a social construct.

I'm not sure I'm ready to come down on Goldberg too hard for not having that nuanced understanding.

Many thanks to you — and others — for taking the time to educate those like me who genuinely want to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

AND to further my misunderstanding, if all the these white looking Jews ARE white, why do these other white people seem to hate you so much? Is it just because you’re Jewish? And they hate the Jewish religion? That’s dumb. Southern poster here again. So unless you told me you were Jewish, I wouldn’t know you were Jewish. How are people just hating on non announcing white Jewish people? Or is the hate only happening on clearly identifying Jewish people?

I'm going to break up the answers, and this is just one answer from one Jew.

1) Antisemitism is rooted in European history, and therefore a baked-in component of American culture. Why are people Antisemitic? Well, it kind of depends. Some people hate Jews because we are foreign, and weird, and celebrate holidays that they don't understand. Some hate us because of a perception that we've been unusually successful as an immigrant group compared to our overall numbers. Some don't hate us but just have never really met us and therefore think we're weird and unAmerican in some vague way.

But if you are asking why white supremacists hate Jews? That's actually a bigger question. One, they don't consider us white. Two, they perceive us as the "brains" behind the civil rights movement. Basically, they need to believe that Jews are behind the CRM because otherwise they'd have to believe that Black folks have the ability to self-organize, which would undercut their understanding of white supremacy.

2) You probably wouldn't know that I was Jewish if I didn't tell you, but you'd absolutely know some of my families were on sight. That's because they have stereotypically Ashkenazi features, which most Americans recognize as quintessentially Jewish. But eventually you'd find out, because of the holidays I took off or because I'd mention it. So, it's complicated. I am not going to be attacked on the street for being Jewish because I don't cover my hair, or wear a long skirt, or "look Jewish." But I might be killed in my temple, or held hostage, or subjected to other white supremacist violence based on my faith when gathering with other Jews.

All of this means that I'm white and experience many but not all elements of white privilege.

The south poster here. This helps tremendously. Thank you for this response. I'm not in a position to reply with additional questions, but wanted to acknowledge your respectful reply without calling my b ignorance on the topic. A couple of years a go I posted on a similar thread with questions and I think Jeff thought I was a troll or that I was trying to be antisemitic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

However, the Jews in Europe were murdered as they were deemed to be an inferior race by the Nazis, so it was about Hitler's misconception of race, and it was about his determination to create a master race. So it was racial.


I'm bumping this for the poster who said they grew up in the South and seems to genuinely want to understand the debate, because this is the best description I've seen in the entire thread.

With that said, this is a nuanced argument. It requires a pretty specific understanding of Hitler's motivations as well as the degree to which "race" has been understood/deployed across different periods of time.

Jews are not a race by the current, North American, definition of race. They were a race by Hitlers understanding and rhetoric. To understand that, you need to understand that the meaning of the word race has shifted across time and geography, and remains a social construct.

I'm not sure I'm ready to come down on Goldberg too hard for not having that nuanced understanding.

But why was it necessary for her to offer an opinion on something she didn't understand or know about?

PP: In Whoopi’s case, her understanding was limited, and it’s to her credit that she is willing to grow and learn. She did not know what she did not know. Her former colleague has decided to weigh in and clarify things a bit — at Goldberg’s expense. Do you have any thoughts on that that you would care to share?
https://people.com/tv/meghan-mccain-decries-whoopi-goldbergs-controversial-holocaust-comment/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She said it was white people vs. white people + thus not about race but man's overall inhumanity to man. Try not to make a mountain out of every molehill OP.

The problem here is imputing a modern take on a historical event that can never ever be compared to anything ever. This and the Armenian genocide are the two most horrific events of the 20th Century. For people to be attributing race relations in America to these events is a complete travesty and rewriting of history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

However, the Jews in Europe were murdered as they were deemed to be an inferior race by the Nazis, so it was about Hitler's misconception of race, and it was about his determination to create a master race. So it was racial.


I'm bumping this for the poster who said they grew up in the South and seems to genuinely want to understand the debate, because this is the best description I've seen in the entire thread.

With that said, this is a nuanced argument. It requires a pretty specific understanding of Hitler's motivations as well as the degree to which "race" has been understood/deployed across different periods of time.

Jews are not a race by the current, North American, definition of race. They were a race by Hitlers understanding and rhetoric. To understand that, you need to understand that the meaning of the word race has shifted across time and geography, and remains a social construct.

I'm not sure I'm ready to come down on Goldberg too hard for not having that nuanced understanding.

But why was it necessary for her to offer an opinion on something she didn't understand or know about?

Good question but that’s kind of the nature of the show. Is there a longer clip that shows WTH they were all talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

However, the Jews in Europe were murdered as they were deemed to be an inferior race by the Nazis, so it was about Hitler's misconception of race, and it was about his determination to create a master race. So it was racial.


I'm bumping this for the poster who said they grew up in the South and seems to genuinely want to understand the debate, because this is the best description I've seen in the entire thread.

With that said, this is a nuanced argument. It requires a pretty specific understanding of Hitler's motivations as well as the degree to which "race" has been understood/deployed across different periods of time.

Jews are not a race by the current, North American, definition of race. They were a race by Hitlers understanding and rhetoric. To understand that, you need to understand that the meaning of the word race has shifted across time and geography, and remains a social construct.

I'm not sure I'm ready to come down on Goldberg too hard for not having that nuanced understanding.

But why was it necessary for her to offer an opinion on something she didn't understand or know about?

PP: In Whoopi’s case, her understanding was limited, and it’s to her credit that she is willing to grow and learn. She did not know what she did not know. Her former colleague has decided to weigh in and clarify things a bit — at Goldberg’s expense. Do you have any thoughts on that that you would care to share?
https://people.com/tv/meghan-mccain-decries-whoopi-goldbergs-controversial-holocaust-comment/

I knew Meghan would weigh in, even from afar. She wants so hard to be relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

However, the Jews in Europe were murdered as they were deemed to be an inferior race by the Nazis, so it was about Hitler's misconception of race, and it was about his determination to create a master race. So it was racial.


I'm bumping this for the poster who said they grew up in the South and seems to genuinely want to understand the debate, because this is the best description I've seen in the entire thread.

With that said, this is a nuanced argument. It requires a pretty specific understanding of Hitler's motivations as well as the degree to which "race" has been understood/deployed across different periods of time.

Jews are not a race by the current, North American, definition of race. They were a race by Hitlers understanding and rhetoric. To understand that, you need to understand that the meaning of the word race has shifted across time and geography, and remains a social construct.

I'm not sure I'm ready to come down on Goldberg too hard for not having that nuanced understanding.

But why was it necessary for her to offer an opinion on something she didn't understand or know about?

Arguably that's what she is paid to do on the view.

[Anonymous]

So someone gets suspended for sparking a healthy conversation on a confusing topic, which is exactly what the show is supposed to be about.

The irony of it all is that our cancel culture fuels the type of hate that causes horrific events like the holocaust. It just causes people to rebel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

However, the Jews in Europe were murdered as they were deemed to be an inferior race by the Nazis, so it was about Hitler's misconception of race, and it was about his determination to create a master race. So it was racial.


I'm bumping this for the poster who said they grew up in the South and seems to genuinely want to understand the debate, because this is the best description I've seen in the entire thread.

With that said, this is a nuanced argument. It requires a pretty specific understanding of Hitler's motivations as well as the degree to which "race" has been understood/deployed across different periods of time.

Jews are not a race by the current, North American, definition of race. They were a race by Hitlers understanding and rhetoric. To understand that, you need to understand that the meaning of the word race has shifted across time and geography, and remains a social construct.

I'm not sure I'm ready to come down on Goldberg too hard for not having that nuanced understanding.

But why was it necessary for her to offer an opinion on something she didn't understand or know about?

Arguably that's what she is paid to do on the view.

TBH - She always weighs in on things she knows little about. They all do. And, their opinions reveal that most of them are just not that bright. This time, though, it was too much of a hot topic for management to ignore.