Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

But then here are the questions I simply haven't seen answered:

1. If the league play doesn't really matter, why does CCL trumpet a "club champion"?

2. Without promotion/relegation, what does a club do if a team in one age group simply isn't up to the competition level? They can't poach from other CCL clubs, but aren't they therefore dependent on poaching from NCSL clubs? (I know at least one case in which *an entire team* moved from one club to another to play CCL, though this was several years ago.)

3. Why are some clubs in CCL and some not? Couldn't they cut down on travel if they admitted or recruited more clubs? Who determines why Richmond Kickers, PWSI, Chantilly and VSA aren't in CCL?

4. Why isn't CCL just a series of tournaments (and "scrimmagefests," which sound great) rather than a league?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

But then here are the questions I simply haven't seen answered:

1. If the league play doesn't really matter, why does CCL trumpet a "club champion"?

2. Without promotion/relegation, what does a club do if a team in one age group simply isn't up to the competition level? They can't poach from other CCL clubs, but aren't they therefore dependent on poaching from NCSL clubs? (I know at least one case in which *an entire team* moved from one club to another to play CCL, though this was several years ago.)

3. Why are some clubs in CCL and some not? Couldn't they cut down on travel if they admitted or recruited more clubs? Who determines why Richmond Kickers, PWSI, Chantilly and VSA aren't in CCL?

4. Why isn't CCL just a series of tournaments (and "scrimmagefests," which sound great) rather than a league?

Because that is what the consumers want.

If you just want training and a tournament team to play for you may play for Evergreen FC. Clubs like this exist too. Stop whining about the poor state of your leagues existance and look elswhere. Shop around a little and you might be surprised what you'll fined.

Hell even look for Futsal clubs but please stop blaiming CCL for your dissatisfaction with youth soccer. You really are tiring and sound like a baby. It is called choice and you have the ability to excercise that choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

But then here are the questions I simply haven't seen answered:

1. If the league play doesn't really matter, why does CCL trumpet a "club champion"?

I DONT KNOW WHY THERE IS A TROPHY AWARDED FOR TOP OVERALL CLUB -- AND ONE EACH FOR TOP GIRLS AND TOP BOYS CLUB -- BUT I SUSPECT IT IS DESIGNED TO MOTIVATE CLUBS TO TAKE THE LEAGUE GAMES SOMEWHAT SERIOUSLY. TO BE HONEST, I DON'T THINK A SINGLE PARENT/PLAYER ON MY KIDS U17 CCL TEAM KNOWS WHO WON LAST SEASONS TROPHIES.

2. Without promotion/relegation, what does a club do if a team in one age group simply isn't up to the competition level? They can't poach from other CCL clubs, but aren't they therefore dependent on poaching from NCSL clubs? (I know at least one case in which *an entire team* moved from one club to another to play CCL, though this was several years ago.)

ONE THING THEY CAN DO IS MOVE TOP PLAYERS UP FROM LOWER AGED TEAMS. THIS GIVES TOP YOUNGER PLAYERS EXPOSURE TO MORE COMPETITVE PLAY THEN THEY TYPICALLY GET AND ALSO IMPROVES THE LEVEL OF PLAY AND PERFORMANCE OF "WEAKER" TEAMS. PLAYING UP HAPPENS FREQUENTLY AT MY KIDS CCL CLUB.

3. Why are some clubs in CCL and some not? Couldn't they cut down on travel if they admitted or recruited more clubs? Who determines why Richmond Kickers, PWSI, Chantilly and VSA aren't in CCL?

PROBABLY DEPENDS ON MANY DIFFERENT FACTORS - ECNL MEMBERSHIP, DA MEMBERSHIP, VIEWS OF CLUB LEADERSHIP, OTHER LEAGUE PLAY OPTIONS, FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS, ETC.

4. Why isn't CCL just a series of tournaments (and "scrimmagefests," which sound great) rather than a league?

AT THE UPPER AGES -- WHERE MOST CCL TEAMS ARE PLAYING IN REGION 1 LEAGUE, DEEP INTO STATE CUP COMPETITION, AND IN 4-5 NATIONAL LEVEL SHOWCASE TOURNAMENTS ANNUALLY -- THE CCL LEAGUE GAMES ARE GROUPLED INTO A COUPLE OF LONG WEEKEND TOURNAMENTS AND DO HAVE THE FEEL OF "SCRIMMAGEFESTS"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

Ha, ha, haaaaaa....

Our CCL club is famous for cutting all home players around U-13 and taking players developed elsewhere.

It only cuts out mid-year poaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

But then here are the questions I simply haven't seen answered:

1. If the league play doesn't really matter, why does CCL trumpet a "club champion"?

2. Without promotion/relegation, what does a club do if a team in one age group simply isn't up to the competition level? They can't poach from other CCL clubs, but aren't they therefore dependent on poaching from NCSL clubs? (I know at least one case in which *an entire team* moved from one club to another to play CCL, though this was several years ago.)

3. Why are some clubs in CCL and some not? Couldn't they cut down on travel if they admitted or recruited more clubs? Who determines why Richmond Kickers, PWSI, Chantilly and VSA aren't in CCL?

4. Why isn't CCL just a series of tournaments (and "scrimmagefests," which sound great) rather than a league?

And believe it or not, not all clubs want to be in CCL for various reasons. VPL, for example offers the U9-U10 age groups what they call YDL. This allowed clubs to create short sided, 5v5 games for development reasons. Travel was also limited. THis gave the clubs that joined VPL/NPL far more control and flexibility for their developemnt programs while for the older groups it allowed clubs to play in a national championship tournament through NPL as well.

CCL has its strengths, NPL has its strentghts, NCSL has its strenghts and they all have their weaknesses as well. Please just pick what works for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

Ha, ha, haaaaaa....

Our CCL club is famous for cutting all home players around U-13 and taking players developed elsewhere.

It only cuts out mid-year poaching.

Not from other CCL clubs and nobody evver poached a happy player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

Ha, ha, haaaaaa....

Our CCL club is famous for cutting all home players around U-13 and taking players developed elsewhere.

It only cuts out mid-year poaching.

Not from other CCL clubs and nobody evver poached a happy player.

I take this answer as a concession that they do cut the majority of their 'home-grown' players. Our entire Academy team came from outside the Club. Not sure what that says about CCL player development when players with the club since 8 can't make their top teams 4 years later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

Ha, ha, haaaaaa....

Our CCL club is famous for cutting all home players around U-13 and taking players developed elsewhere.

It only cuts out mid-year poaching.

Not from other CCL clubs and nobody evver poached a happy player.

I take this answer as a concession that they do cut the majority of their 'home-grown' players. Our entire Academy team came from outside the Club. Not sure what that says about CCL player development when players with the club since 8 can't make their top teams 4 years later.

No it isn't any form of concession at all but ALL teams have turnover. Coaches change, some players improve others don't, some players leave and players fill those spaces. Some kids where 9-10 year old stars and B and C team kids put in work and improved. Some kids bodies grew into their skills, other kids never kept their size advantage that they relied upon. Regardless, there are numerous reasons why kids come and go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

Ha, ha, haaaaaa....

Our CCL club is famous for cutting all home players around U-13 and taking players developed elsewhere.

It only cuts out mid-year poaching.

Not from other CCL clubs and nobody evver poached a happy player.

I take this answer as a concession that they do cut the majority of their 'home-grown' players. Our entire Academy team came from outside the Club. Not sure what that says about CCL player development when players with the club since 8 can't make their top teams 4 years later.

This has nothing to do with CCL, your problem is with your club. CCL did not cut your existing team, the new coach did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that NCSL has adopted some CCL/VPL practices, do we still need so many leagues?

While NCSL has incorporated one aspect of the CCL/VPL club-centric model, the big difference remains the different emphasis on promotion/relegation. Some coaches and posters in this thread think it's critical in order to make sure teams play the appropriate level of competition. The disadvantage is it places more emphasis on winning to ensure the team stays in a higher division. This is the NCSL/WAGS approach. Others find the absence of Pro/Rel concerns allows teams to focus more on development such as giving weaker players more playing time, trying players at different positions, trying new formations, etc. These teams tend to seek more competitive games in tournaments, state cup competitions, etc. This is the CCL approach and to a much lesser extent, the VPL approach as those teams are still playing for a chance to make the NPL Finals.

All teams want to win at some level; it's just a question of whether the focus is on the league games, or tournaments and state cups, or both. But if the team is focused on winning all the time, then there's never any focus on real player development.

But because there is a legitimate difference of opinion of what is the right approach, the different leagues are needed to fulfill different requirements. And until there are enough clubs in your local area to fulfill those needs - be it having good but varied competition, or having more developmentally favorable league games - then teams/clubs will continue to have to travel to meet their needs.

This is a great summary. Remember, your millage may vary based on your club, team or coach but that is not the particular leagues fault. The main thing is, and I know this offends some of you, but this point cant be driven home enough, educate yourself about the club, team and league your kid will play for and you will likely be happier with your overall experience. There are enough choices out there to satisfy your soccer needs.

The two above posts are excellent. Our kid moved after U13 year from a competitive WAGS/NCSL team to a competitive CCL team and we have been very happy with the move and in particular happy with the reduced emphasis that CCL places on league games (since no promotion/relegation) and the greater emphasis on preparing for and playing in major tournaments and state cup. Of course your mileage may vary by club. League games for our CCL club is viewed as an opportunity to play more advanced kids up a year or two to get them exposure to stronger competition, to play kids in different positions, formations or player combinations, to get certain kids more game time then they receive in tournaments or state cup, etc. I think the CCL model, at the right club, is IN GENERAL a much better developmental model than WAGS/NCSL. Of course there are exceptions.

And don't forget the anti-poaching rules that CCL has in place that try to force clubs to develop the kids that they have versus simply recruiting talent.

Ha, ha, haaaaaa....

Our CCL club is famous for cutting all home players around U-13 and taking players developed elsewhere.

It only cuts out mid-year poaching.

Not from other CCL clubs and nobody evver poached a happy player.

I take this answer as a concession that they do cut the majority of their 'home-grown' players. Our entire Academy team came from outside the Club. Not sure what that says about CCL player development when players with the club since 8 can't make their top teams 4 years later.

This has nothing to do with CCL, your problem is with your club. CCL did not cut your existing team, the new coach did.

Definitely!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because that is what the consumers want.

If you just want training and a tournament team to play for you may play for Evergreen FC. Clubs like this exist too. Stop whining about the poor state of your leagues existance and look elswhere. Shop around a little and you might be surprised what you'll fined.

Hell even look for Futsal clubs but please stop blaiming CCL for your dissatisfaction with youth soccer. You really are tiring and sound like a baby. It is called choice and you have the ability to excercise that choice.

Have we not firmly established that there are *multiple* people in this discussion who are not involved with CCL but are concerned with the fragmentation of youth soccer in this region?

And have you EVER made an attempt to refute that argument? Or are you the one who says nothing other than "choice" and "quit whining"?

Here's an idea: Why don't *you* exercise choice? There's a good discussion going on here, with good points made from a variety of perspectives. You can *choose* to be a part of it, or not.

With that, I *choose* to quit responding to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because that is what the consumers want.

If you just want training and a tournament team to play for you may play for Evergreen FC. Clubs like this exist too. Stop whining about the poor state of your leagues existance and look elswhere. Shop around a little and you might be surprised what you'll fined.

Hell even look for Futsal clubs but please stop blaiming CCL for your dissatisfaction with youth soccer. You really are tiring and sound like a baby. It is called choice and you have the ability to excercise that choice.

Have we not firmly established that there are *multiple* people in this discussion who are not involved with CCL but are concerned with the fragmentation of youth soccer in this region?

And have you EVER made an attempt to refute that argument? Or are you the one who says nothing other than "choice" and "quit whining"?

Here's an idea: Why don't *you* exercise choice? There's a good discussion going on here, with good points made from a variety of perspectives. You can *choose* to be a part of it, or not.

With that, I *choose* to quit responding to you.

YES!!!! +1,000,0000 I really, really agree and hope you "choose" to go away as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because that is what the consumers want.

If you just want training and a tournament team to play for you may play for Evergreen FC. Clubs like this exist too. Stop whining about the poor state of your leagues existance and look elswhere. Shop around a little and you might be surprised what you'll fined.

Hell even look for Futsal clubs but please stop blaiming CCL for your dissatisfaction with youth soccer. You really are tiring and sound like a baby. It is called choice and you have the ability to excercise that choice.

Have we not firmly established that there are *multiple* people in this discussion who are not involved with CCL but are concerned with the fragmentation of youth soccer in this region?

And have you EVER made an attempt to refute that argument? Or are you the one who says nothing other than "choice" and "quit whining"?

Here's an idea: Why don't *you* exercise choice? There's a good discussion going on here, with good points made from a variety of perspectives. You can *choose* to be a part of it, or not.

With that, I *choose* to quit responding to you.

Sorry....By "you" I mean the person who keeps saying they have a choice to quit whining of course.

YES!!!! +1,000,0000 I really, really agree and hope you "choose" to go away as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because that is what the consumers want.

If you just want training and a tournament team to play for you may play for Evergreen FC. Clubs like this exist too. Stop whining about the poor state of your leagues existance and look elswhere. Shop around a little and you might be surprised what you'll fined.

Hell even look for Futsal clubs but please stop blaiming CCL for your dissatisfaction with youth soccer. You really are tiring and sound like a baby. It is called choice and you have the ability to excercise that choice.

Have we not firmly established that there are *multiple* people in this discussion who are not involved with CCL but are concerned with the fragmentation of youth soccer in this region?

And have you EVER made an attempt to refute that argument? Or are you the one who says nothing other than "choice" and "quit whining"?

Here's an idea: Why don't *you* exercise choice? There's a good discussion going on here, with good points made from a variety of perspectives. You can *choose* to be a part of it, or not.

With that, I *choose* to quit responding to you.

So your plan for youth soccer is to provide a landscape with no choice?