US has no good options in Ukraine

[Anonymous]

Unfettered global capitalism is not conducive to any national notion of democracy. Duh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“We stand with Ukraine” is the equivalent of “thoughts and prayers.” Meaningless.

Biden’s tough talk is meaningless. “We are ready. We are United.” Just words. We are watching Russia roll into Ukraine. I don’t get it.

Nobody wants a world war, but what’s the alternative? Just let Russia take Ukraine? Then what?

"We stand with Ukraine" is a social media slogan. The US is already doing plenty, as is the EU, which has really stepped up to the plate and united over this in ways not anticipated. And without Angela Merkel, which someone can write a paper on someday.

Even Condoleeza Rice praised Biden for uniting NATO - on Fox:

[Anonymous]

I know senior administration officials are going to be super busy for tve foreseable future. But, if this russian invasion of ukraine is showing something is that this country needs to rethink who it allows into this land. Citizens from the fomlowing countries: india, Pakistan, Russia, China,Mexico should have their entries —no matter the reasons—severely restricted . They're not allies .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. I think we'll end up in a conflict with Russia sooner - if we support Ukraine militarily now - or later - when he decides he quite fancies getting the Baltics back and redrawing the border with Poland. This is not something we can stay out of, we just haven't realized it. Hence my argument that all that talk about getting dragged into a third world war missing the obvious point: we are at the beginning already.

This is where my thoughts are right now, as much as I don’t want them to be.

Re-posting the Fiona Hill article/interview - we are already in WW III - ignore the incendiary headline. It's a very good analysis.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

God bless our Troops and Go get em

Hope you are all ready to have all that time and money you invested getting your sins into tip colleges be squandered in Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“We stand with Ukraine” is the equivalent of “thoughts and prayers.” Meaningless.

Biden’s tough talk is meaningless. “We are ready. We are United.” Just words. We are watching Russia roll into Ukraine. I don’t get it.

Nobody wants a world war, but what’s the alternative? Just let Russia take Ukraine? Then what?

Please spell out what the US should do. I get the seeming futility, but what do you think should be done?

PP doesn’t want to do anything and just wants to try to tag Biden as weak.

I’m a Dem who voted for Biden, and I’m not merely trying to paint him as weak.

Rather, I don’t understand how waiting for Putin to take Ukraine and advance on another country makes sense. We’ve seemingly drawn a line at nato countries. If Putin is wise, he will simply avoid nato countries while taking others. And we will just hope that sanctions will make him stop? It won’t. The war on democracy has begun; it’s happening in Ukraine.

This isn’t Biden’s lone responsibility; NATO must step up.

I fear we are creating a new enemy in Ukraine. Those people have every right to be furious with the world that sat back and didn’t support them.

Taking Ukraine will embolden Russia. Heck, it will embolden China to take Taiwan…and perhaps other nations where they have access and a foothold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“We stand with Ukraine” is the equivalent of “thoughts and prayers.” Meaningless.

Biden’s tough talk is meaningless. “We are ready. We are United.” Just words. We are watching Russia roll into Ukraine. I don’t get it.

Nobody wants a world war, but what’s the alternative? Just let Russia take Ukraine? Then what?

Please spell out what the US should do. I get the seeming futility, but what do you think should be done?

PP doesn’t want to do anything and just wants to try to tag Biden as weak.

I’m a Dem who voted for Biden, and I’m not merely trying to paint him as weak.

Rather, I don’t understand how waiting for Putin to take Ukraine and advance on another country makes sense. We’ve seemingly drawn a line at nato countries. If Putin is wise, he will simply avoid nato countries while taking others. And we will just hope that sanctions will make him stop? It won’t. The war on democracy has begun; it’s happening in Ukraine.

This isn’t Biden’s lone responsibility; NATO must step up.

I fear we are creating a new enemy in Ukraine. Those people have every right to be furious with the world that sat back and didn’t support them.

Taking Ukraine will embolden Russia. Heck, it will embolden China to take Taiwan…and perhaps other nations where they have access and a foothold.

I agree with you about China and Taiwan.

Realistically, though, this is about the strategic balance of power. What has happened has already significantly weakened Putin. No country, not even the US, has the power to invade Russia and force a regime change. It has to come from within. Essentially everyone is creating a situation where they give him enough rope to hang himself. He is now backed into a corner — he has to either withdraw after getting some fake concessions (hence the talks) or commit to a protracted conflict and occupation with a country that gets more belligerent in opposing him by the minute. Terrible outcome. In the meantime, the economic sanctions and coordination of so many other countries is putting tremendous pressure on the oligarchs who support him. Regime change from within is now inevitable. Might it take a few years? Sure. Will lots of innocent lives be lost this way? Yes. But this is the only path forward without creating another huge conflict and more issues. If the US goes in then China will as well. Right now they are back channeling talks to keep China neutral/ diplomatically aligned with everyone else. The cost was probably Taiwan, which is a high cost to pay. But they don’t have much else to work with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“We stand with Ukraine” is the equivalent of “thoughts and prayers.” Meaningless.

Biden’s tough talk is meaningless. “We are ready. We are United.” Just words. We are watching Russia roll into Ukraine. I don’t get it.

Nobody wants a world war, but what’s the alternative? Just let Russia take Ukraine? Then what?

Please spell out what the US should do. I get the seeming futility, but what do you think should be done?

PP doesn’t want to do anything and just wants to try to tag Biden as weak.

I’m a Dem who voted for Biden, and I’m not merely trying to paint him as weak.

Rather, I don’t understand how waiting for Putin to take Ukraine and advance on another country makes sense. We’ve seemingly drawn a line at nato countries. If Putin is wise, he will simply avoid nato countries while taking others. And we will just hope that sanctions will make him stop? It won’t. The war on democracy has begun; it’s happening in Ukraine.

This isn’t Biden’s lone responsibility; NATO must step up.

I fear we are creating a new enemy in Ukraine. Those people have every right to be furious with the world that sat back and didn’t support them.

Taking Ukraine will embolden Russia. Heck, it will embolden China to take Taiwan…and perhaps other nations where they have access and a foothold.

I agree with you about China and Taiwan.

Realistically, though, this is about the strategic balance of power. What has happened has already significantly weakened Putin. No country, not even the US, has the power to invade Russia and force a regime change. It has to come from within. Essentially everyone is creating a situation where they give him enough rope to hang himself. He is now backed into a corner — he has to either withdraw after getting some fake concessions (hence the talks) or commit to a protracted conflict and occupation with a country that gets more belligerent in opposing him by the minute. Terrible outcome. In the meantime, the economic sanctions and coordination of so many other countries is putting tremendous pressure on the oligarchs who support him. Regime change from within is now inevitable. Might it take a few years? Sure. Will lots of innocent lives be lost this way? Yes. But this is the only path forward without creating another huge conflict and more issues. If the US goes in then China will as well. Right now they are back channeling talks to keep China neutral/ diplomatically aligned with everyone else. The cost was probably Taiwan, which is a high cost to pay. But they don’t have much else to work with.

Are you kidding me? The Iranians have survived for 5 decades of isolation and sanctions, you think Russia will crumble because of this pressure? No, after the initial shock and sadness of war, Russians will rally round Putin. China comes on top becoming the leader of the Eastern block. The wheels have been put in motion, it's a truly sad thing to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“We stand with Ukraine” is the equivalent of “thoughts and prayers.” Meaningless.

Biden’s tough talk is meaningless. “We are ready. We are United.” Just words. We are watching Russia roll into Ukraine. I don’t get it.

Nobody wants a world war, but what’s the alternative? Just let Russia take Ukraine? Then what?

Please spell out what the US should do. I get the seeming futility, but what do you think should be done?

PP doesn’t want to do anything and just wants to try to tag Biden as weak.

I’m a Dem who voted for Biden, and I’m not merely trying to paint him as weak.

Rather, I don’t understand how waiting for Putin to take Ukraine and advance on another country makes sense. We’ve seemingly drawn a line at nato countries. If Putin is wise, he will simply avoid nato countries while taking others. And we will just hope that sanctions will make him stop? It won’t. The war on democracy has begun; it’s happening in Ukraine.

This isn’t Biden’s lone responsibility; NATO must step up.

I fear we are creating a new enemy in Ukraine. Those people have every right to be furious with the world that sat back and didn’t support them.

Taking Ukraine will embolden Russia. Heck, it will embolden China to take Taiwan…and perhaps other nations where they have access and a foothold.

You post the same talking points as Rudy Giuliani. Trump is weak. This is why you and your fellow republicans are now being drawn to Putin. You want the US to be what Russia is.

[Anonymous]

Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

No the takeaway for China is that the world still prefers the West's vision for the future, and no Chinese propaganda will change it's image. It had a chance last week to step up in a leadership role and missed it. China will do its thing by force, and all the autocratic leaders of the world will join it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“We stand with Ukraine” is the equivalent of “thoughts and prayers.” Meaningless.

Biden’s tough talk is meaningless. “We are ready. We are United.” Just words. We are watching Russia roll into Ukraine. I don’t get it.

Nobody wants a world war, but what’s the alternative? Just let Russia take Ukraine? Then what?

Please spell out what the US should do. I get the seeming futility, but what do you think should be done?

PP doesn’t want to do anything and just wants to try to tag Biden as weak.

I’m a Dem who voted for Biden, and I’m not merely trying to paint him as weak.

Rather, I don’t understand how waiting for Putin to take Ukraine and advance on another country makes sense. We’ve seemingly drawn a line at nato countries. If Putin is wise, he will simply avoid nato countries while taking others. And we will just hope that sanctions will make him stop? It won’t. The war on democracy has begun; it’s happening in Ukraine.

This isn’t Biden’s lone responsibility; NATO must step up.

I fear we are creating a new enemy in Ukraine. Those people have every right to be furious with the world that sat back and didn’t support them.

Taking Ukraine will embolden Russia. Heck, it will embolden China to take Taiwan…and perhaps other nations where they have access and a foothold.

I agree with you about China and Taiwan.

Realistically, though, this is about the strategic balance of power. What has happened has already significantly weakened Putin. No country, not even the US, has the power to invade Russia and force a regime change. It has to come from within. Essentially everyone is creating a situation where they give him enough rope to hang himself. He is now backed into a corner — he has to either withdraw after getting some fake concessions (hence the talks) or commit to a protracted conflict and occupation with a country that gets more belligerent in opposing him by the minute. Terrible outcome. In the meantime, the economic sanctions and coordination of so many other countries is putting tremendous pressure on the oligarchs who support him. Regime change from within is now inevitable. Might it take a few years? Sure. Will lots of innocent lives be lost this way? Yes. But this is the only path forward without creating another huge conflict and more issues. If the US goes in then China will as well. Right now they are back channeling talks to keep China neutral/ diplomatically aligned with everyone else. The cost was probably Taiwan, which is a high cost to pay. But they don’t have much else to work with.

Are you kidding me? The Iranians have survived for 5 decades of isolation and sanctions, you think Russia will crumble because of this pressure? No, after the initial shock and sadness of war, Russians will rally round Putin. China comes on top becoming the leader of the Eastern block. The wheels have been put in motion, it's a truly sad thing to see.

I don't know. The Russians have killed a corrupt dictatorship before. They are not afraid of revolution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“We stand with Ukraine” is the equivalent of “thoughts and prayers.” Meaningless.

Biden’s tough talk is meaningless. “We are ready. We are United.” Just words. We are watching Russia roll into Ukraine. I don’t get it.

Nobody wants a world war, but what’s the alternative? Just let Russia take Ukraine? Then what?

Please spell out what the US should do. I get the seeming futility, but what do you think should be done?

PP doesn’t want to do anything and just wants to try to tag Biden as weak.

I’m a Dem who voted for Biden, and I’m not merely trying to paint him as weak.

Rather, I don’t understand how waiting for Putin to take Ukraine and advance on another country makes sense. We’ve seemingly drawn a line at nato countries. If Putin is wise, he will simply avoid nato countries while taking others. And we will just hope that sanctions will make him stop? It won’t. The war on democracy has begun; it’s happening in Ukraine.

This isn’t Biden’s lone responsibility; NATO must step up.

I fear we are creating a new enemy in Ukraine. Those people have every right to be furious with the world that sat back and didn’t support them.

Taking Ukraine will embolden Russia. Heck, it will embolden China to take Taiwan…and perhaps other nations where they have access and a foothold.

I agree with you about China and Taiwan.

Realistically, though, this is about the strategic balance of power. What has happened has already significantly weakened Putin. No country, not even the US, has the power to invade Russia and force a regime change. It has to come from within. Essentially everyone is creating a situation where they give him enough rope to hang himself. He is now backed into a corner — he has to either withdraw after getting some fake concessions (hence the talks) or commit to a protracted conflict and occupation with a country that gets more belligerent in opposing him by the minute. Terrible outcome. In the meantime, the economic sanctions and coordination of so many other countries is putting tremendous pressure on the oligarchs who support him. Regime change from within is now inevitable. Might it take a few years? Sure. Will lots of innocent lives be lost this way? Yes. But this is the only path forward without creating another huge conflict and more issues. If the US goes in then China will as well. Right now they are back channeling talks to keep China neutral/ diplomatically aligned with everyone else. The cost was probably Taiwan, which is a high cost to pay. But they don’t have much else to work with.

Are you kidding me? The Iranians have survived for 5 decades of isolation and sanctions, you think Russia will crumble because of this pressure? No, after the initial shock and sadness of war, Russians will rally round Putin. China comes on top becoming the leader of the Eastern block. The wheels have been put in motion, it's a truly sad thing to see.

I don't know. The Russians have killed a corrupt dictatorship before. They are not afraid of revolution.

When was the last time that happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Russian women and children died in Chechnya, population 1.3M people. Putin has no remorse or care about his own people. For a preview of where this goes look to the Balkans and Milosevic.