Achievement gap continues to grow between high- and low-income schools

[Anonymous]

There is a crazy ass troll on this thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oooh! Let me explain! The new standards are deeper, just so much deeper. Its hard to explain because its just so deep. Trust us, our shit smells like roses, really it does!

You won't even recognize math now and the answer doesn't matter. In fact, if you try to learn math MCPS teachers will make sure that you struggle. We'll make you write essays and call it math. We understand it better and its all about us. Did I mention its deeper? Why yes, much deeper.

Its the deeper process ..brought to you by brilliant underachievers who went into education and couldn't take real math classes in college.

LOVE!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

None of this BS this "teacher" is posting is relevant to the issue of achievement gap.

And the poster who said the Asian kids "struggling" with 2.0 but would beat the teacher in SAT's is dead on right. Lol

Agree the teacher is full of BS but I do think its relevant that if teachers can't teach, it will only exasperate the achievement gap. My kids take math outside MCPS. They know far more than what is being taught in class. The math exercises are often poorly chosen examples to showcase a particular strategy. I've had to explain to my kids that its an exercise in following instructions and figuring out what the teacher wants you to do not finding the most efficient or intuitive way to solve he problem. Sadly, the math component is secondary to the english component. I've had to tell my kids to construct a story and pretend they are explaining math to someone who doesn't understand it or to try to repeat words that the teacher has said in class. This yields success and the teachers have raved at their math ability. Sadly, this isn't math at all.

Its not a bad business skill. Much of what I do at work is figuring out how to present things in ways that will sell it and be understandable to the audience. This is a great skill for funding a bridge but you REALLY do not want to use this approach in building a bridge!! I guess the plan is to just outsource all science and engineering to countries that teach STEM in school.

In terms of the achievement gap, it must be impossible for someone who is ESL and doesn't the same background to figure out this is the way to succeed in the strange new system. Even if the lower income parents try to work with their kids, what are they going to do? There are no textbooks or clear explanations for any of this nonsense. The teachers barely understand what they are supposed to be doing. How on earth can a parent working several jobs with limited english and education figure it out.

I'm curious. What grade are your kids in?

[Anonymous]

I agree with the poster that said no textbooks or workbooks is a problem. No flow of a curriculum that a parent could keep up with and help. I am a SAHM and have a hard enough time find papers, looking at assignments, trying to figure out what is going on. I can not imagine not speaking English, working 2 jobs and trying to even navigate the crap that MCPS tries to pull off as an education and helping your kids with it.

[Anonymous]

I asked this before and no one answered despite many saying they "supplement". What SHOULD parents who are not math majors do outside of class to help their kids? If "supplement" is the answer what in the world does that mean we actually need to do? Is the only answer to sign them up for tutoring services starting in ES? That seems impossible to keep up without burning out my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think our desire to desegregate has bit us in the ass. We shouldn't look at segregation from an educational standpoint as a bad thing, esp. when students have different needs. We need to segregate at the early elementary school level. ESOL students together learning basic English and then must pass an entrance exam to get into regular schools. The regular school must be about teaching various subjects, not basic English, and needs to meet the needs of the top 1/2 performers. What is taught in Potomac must be taught in Wheaton and I assure you, that isn't the case and that is what is causing a lot of the issues. Students can't move into the next grade until they are ready. I don't understand why we have kids in a regular school setting that don't speak English - that is a proven recipe for disaster as classes become more and more fragmented. Keep ESOL separate until they learn the language. SES is a separate issue and schools should not be responsible for feeding or clothing disadvantaged students. That is the role of welfare.

At some point, ESOL students will have a good command of English and will assimilate into regular school, leveling the playing field a bit. The next issue to tackle is to stop promoting poor students to the next grade. Whether it be via testing or other methods, if a teacher does not feel that a child is ready to move on, tehn they shouldn't. I know too many high school graduates that can barely write.

The ESOL students will be in their own classes, where they learn nothing but basic English, and then at some point, they will have a good command of English and will assimilate into regular school, despite not having been taught any of the stuff the kids learn in the regular school?

If you're wondering why the ESOL students are in the regular school setting -- well, that's one reason.

"We conclude that in the field of public education the doctrine of ‘separate but equal’ has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. . ."

Has nothing to do with separate but equal. It has everything to do to make sure ESOL kids are brought up to speed quickly enough so they can assimilate into the regular school. Why should the fluent students (and this includes all nationalities) have to suffer when some of their classmates aren't keeping up?

[Anonymous]

I asked this before and no one answered despite many saying they "supplement". What SHOULD parents who are not math majors do outside of class to help their kids? If "supplement" is the answer what in the world does that mean we actually need to do? Is the only answer to sign them up for tutoring services starting in ES? That seems impossible to keep up without burning out my kid.

Tutoring services whether its a private tutor, foreign Saturday school that takes english speakers, Mathnasium, Kumon or other is time consuming and expensive. You need to budget a few thousand dollars and commit to around 2 hours per week. There are on-line programs like IXL or if you pay for WISC testing and your child qualifies you can do Hopkins talented youth on-line. IXL is much cheaper and Khan academy is free but I'm not sure that Khan does enough to cover the MCPS gaps.

Its a choice and we had each kid drop a sport to do be able to do it and we have not taken up music classes. On the upside they actually enjoy it but even if they didn't I think we would still have to do it.

[Anonymous]

^ pp you replied to here. That sucks. That is nuts. Who is doing anything though about it except for venting and realistically how is it fixable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the biggest issues my child is experiencing is the constant class disruptions when ESOL teacher somes in and out of the classroom to pull the kids.


What do you mean by this? I am an ESOL teacher and it might take 30 seconds to one minute to get the attention of my ESOL students and for them to leave the classroom. They know when they see me appear at their door, they are to quietly stand up and leave the room. When I drop them off, they enter the classroom in silence. They sit next to a buddy who is directed by the teacher to tell them what is happening when they return (if the teacher asks them to do this). We pull all of each grade's ESOL students at the same time every day. For example, my colleague and I pull first grade at 9:15 every morning as morning announcements begin. We pull second grade as they return from their resource class every day.

As soon as the classroom door opens, it constitutes a disruption. At my daughter's school, there were 3 interruptions that happened in the morning. One of them was to pull special needs children, the other 2 were for ESOL kids. As soon as the classroom door opened, every kid in the classroom looked up and some of the kids went as far as to let the ESOL students know that it is time for them to leave. This is first grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with focusing on the achievement gap is that it paradoxically increases it. I went to a low performing MCPS school in the late 1980's when there was real tracking and I was in accelerated classes with other like minded/ motivated students. If tracking existed like it did when I was in high school, I wouldn't be as concerned about my children attending the "best" school because I would know my children's needs could be met at most if not all MCPS schools. Today however, I know that I need my kids to be in the most affluent school possible so that there are resources to deal with acceleration. Since there are few bottom kids at my kids' school, I know my kids' teachers can focus on teaching my kids rather than giving them worksheets

I graduated Wheaton High School in the late 1980's. Like the PP above, I was tracked since middle school with the same grouping of about 30 kids. We were given free services such as SAT prep as well as college and career mentoring programs. I graduated with 15 AP credits and was the first in my family to graduate college. I have done well in my career and my children now attend schools in the Winston Churchill cluster.

Would I say my children's education is as good as I received in MCPS in the 1980's just because they attend schools in a W Cluster? Not even close. We supplement with educational programs outside of school to combat areas of the curriculum that are falling short in teaching basic math, reading, and writing skills. I also do not assume that the report card is an accurate reflection of my children's skills.

This is sad.

It's true and we do the same at home. We have family living outside of Philadelphia with a child my son's age. He is leaps and bounds ahead in most subjects.

[Anonymous]

As soon as the classroom door opens, it constitutes a disruption. At my daughter's school, there were 3 interruptions that happened in the morning. One of them was to pull special needs children, the other 2 were for ESOL kids. As soon as the classroom door opened, every kid in the classroom looked up and some of the kids went as far as to let the ESOL students know that it is time for them to leave. This is first grade.

If that is the only disruption in your child's class everyday, you should be very happy. I can't imagine that any 1st graders are totally absorbed in complex tasks so that looking up to see the door open affects their education. I have never seen a 1st grade class that doesn't have kids up and down, low level buzz, teacher talking to someone, lots going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In Asian communities you do not see the academic achievement gap between high and low SES students. Low SES students perform just as well and much of this is cultural expectations that given the opportunity you must do well. Asian communities put less emphasis on being born gifted and see academic achievement as a product of hard work.

This attitude is NOT present in american culture. American educational education expects that you are either born smart or you are not. There is an acceptance that US education is bad so if you work in US education whatever you do is good enough. The super smart kids will still succeed and the wealthy will opt out for private schools.

MCPS takes this one step forward and does nothing to reward or incentivize achievement for the middle class, immigrants, low, average, or bright students. I've never seen a school system that shuts out parental involvement, demotivates students, and acts to minimize or restrict achievement to the extent that 2.0 and MCPS does. The focus is clearly on the bottom bar and this is exactly why MCPS will never solve the achievement gap.

Latin american cultures trust the institution. Parental involvement in schools is very uncommon in latin american countries. It isn't an issue that they do not care about education but its a foreign concept to think you need to constantly supplement your child's education at home or push to be aware of how your child is performing in school.

If MCPS focused more on achievement of the individual student and delivered a quality curriculum the latin american students would do much better.

I agree - and so do many others who are leaving mcps for other counties or privates. My family decided to leave altogether. I was born and raised in Wheaton and now i am an outsider. Way to go Montgomery County - hope you enjoy your melting pot!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Latin culture trusts the institution? Have they seen their kid's tests scores? They just go with the flow. What a load of crap.

Not crap. You have to accept that parents frame their school expectations based on their experiences. There are cultural differences that impact how students perform in a school system that has different unstated rules.

MCPS is weird. It simultaneously minimizes parental involvement but the high scores it take credit for come from parents who supplement and teach at home. It took me a while to realize that you really have to teach your kids at home. This is not the expectation at all in Latin American or South American countries. Its strange to have to be this involved with my child's education and school work. Its hard to do with both parents working. I can completely understand why many immigrants don't catch on to this.

You also have parents that don't have a strong education and can barely read english. At some point, MCPS needs to start actually teaching.

You hit the nail on the head. If we trust MCPS to teach our kids, we are all in trouble. I spend a lot of time with my kids and it shows. Their teachers are so impressed with how quickly they learn. Uh, no thanks to them. No wonder homeshcooling is becoming so popular. And Montgomery County government is completely to blame for the downfall of the county. We used to be so respected and now we are just so politically correct and diverse! If you can't speak 12 languages, you'll never make it here. We won't be here much longer and as more white flight happens, you will see the once might MC crumble completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I asked this before and no one answered despite many saying they "supplement". What SHOULD parents who are not math majors do outside of class to help their kids? If "supplement" is the answer what in the world does that mean we actually need to do? Is the only answer to sign them up for tutoring services starting in ES? That seems impossible to keep up without burning out my kid.

Google around - there are lots of websites, some of them game based and fun, that teach math, spelling etc. my niece attends a school in Pennsylvania and the first day of school, the parents received:
- online resource list of edicational websites, along with passwords for the paid ones
- homework pack outlining what will be covered each week with extra practice worksheets
- Reading list with incentives for the child to read one book a week off the list (they get an ice cream, lunch with a favorite teacher, etc.) - very motivating
- STEM extras, every month, a project list is provided that focuses on STEM. Turn your project in and you get prizes. Very motivating

They also test all ESOL students and will hold them back if they don't pass on language. And the best part - high school seniors actually can spell and use punctuation correctly when they graduate. if they can't, they fail. That doesn't happen here - they push everyone out the door. I work in retail and it disgusts me to see how uneducated our high school grads are.

see, Montgomery County relaxed a bit after all the great press about it's schools. Now look at what happened.

[Anonymous]

Honest to goodness, I believe there is one person posting all this ridiculous mess in this thread!
Just dumb ass ridiculous generalizations and outright lies.
It is a wonder Jeff has not shut this crap down !!