Crown boundary study Option H

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did Adam Van Grack say there will be 1,000 more students go to Crown plus Wootton students? Is he serious?

I heard it from a friend of mine that he did say that however I wasn’t on the HOA meeting last night. Where you there? That’s concerning..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much does being three miles from a high school effect housing price. From what I've seen even in rural areas with easy drives, it knocks of a hundred or two hundred grand from the price of the house.

Most people would prefer a school that is a seven or eight over being three miles in congested traffic from the school.

It does not. If we go by proximity to a high school, Travilah ES and Dufief ES should go to QO not Wootton. The homes in Travilah are 1.5 million while those in QO are 900K.

Its just the reputation of the school and Wootton will not suffer if they move to Crown. Their branding still stands. Wootton parents want it all - a new school building, and it has to be closer to home, while the rest of us pay taxes to renovate Wootton, when a new one already exists in Crown and can pull Wootton families.

They should pull in from Gaithersburg, QO and Wootton to make a NEW Wootton at Crown. I'm not familiar with the RM, Churchill, Rockville, Whitman and their proximities, but change the boundary for them too. Redistrict everyone and fill up Crown. Demolish the existing Wootton building.

Wootton parent here and I agree completely. I have been saying it ever since the county wide boundary study drama before COVID. It does not make sense to have both of those schools, we just don't have the students. I understand we did not have a choice but to build Crown or risk the land so the decision to move Wootton while also adding in more students is perfect. Wootton can sit or get demolished until they decide we have the students to justify the expense. Similar situation with Northwood and even Woodward decades ago when they opened Walter Johnson.

As a Wootton parent I know it is not what my peers want to hear but it is what makes the most sense.

MCPS needs a holding school so the other question is do Wootton parents want the new school or are they ok with Crown being the holding school and stop complaining as many schools have the same issues and they are being offered a new school, unlike the other ones.

[Anonymous]

What no one has mentioned so far is logistics. Specifically transport.

If option H were to be the only change, I would be less concerned about bussing, but as it is, MCPS doesn't have enough buses/drivers for today's needs. So if option H becomes the way forward, then coupled with the proposed changes - namely grandfathered magnet students (so keeping current bussing levels) while implementing the new boundaries/regional programs which will overall increase demand for busses/drivers, how does MCPS then think they will also have enough to then bus all the Wootton students to Crown, many of whom are in the walk zone today?

We already know that Taylor's plan in his former school district caused bussing problems, making headline news - forcing students to opt-in to riding the school bus because there weren't enough seats. And that was for a much smaller school district. I see this being the likely scenario again - with or without Option H - but Option H will exacerbate this situation even more. Then I imagine that's even more clogged local roads as a result for all the students who can't get a bus even if they want one.

[Anonymous]

So the question isn't just about $ (which is a significant concern already), but actual implementation in Fall 2027 - how do you get the Wootton students to Crown while also getting all the new 9th/10th graders to their new schools all around MCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the question isn't just about $ (which is a significant concern already), but actual implementation in Fall 2027 - how do you get the Wootton students to Crown while also getting all the new 9th/10th graders to their new schools all around MCPS?

The county council will give them more money. Very few students will be going to new schools for the regional program so its a non-issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wootton Cluster:

If they redistrict these ES, it would be perfect. The parents whining about proximity will get what they want - proximity - just to a different high school

Wootton Cluster:
Cabin John (currently shared with Churchill):
Coldspring - Churchill
Stonemill - QO and Crown

Robert Frost:
Dufief - QO
Fallsmead - Churchill and Crown
Lakewood - Crown
Travilah - QO

Churchill is over capacity already, this won’t work.

Then they have to shuffle more schools in that area. If they can do it to Cabin Branch where people paid a million dollars for those homes thinking they go to Clarksburg but ended up at Seneca Valley, they can shake up the Churchill cluster too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much does being three miles from a high school effect housing price. From what I've seen even in rural areas with easy drives, it knocks of a hundred or two hundred grand from the price of the house.

Most people would prefer a school that is a seven or eight over being three miles in congested traffic from the school.

It does not. If we go by proximity to a high school, Travilah ES and Dufief ES should go to QO not Wootton. The homes in Travilah are 1.5 million while those in QO are 900K.

Its just the reputation of the school and Wootton will not suffer if they move to Crown. Their branding still stands. Wootton parents want it all - a new school building, and it has to be closer to home, while the rest of us pay taxes to renovate Wootton, when a new one already exists in Crown and can pull Wootton families.

They should pull in from Gaithersburg, QO and Wootton to make a NEW Wootton at Crown. I'm not familiar with the RM, Churchill, Rockville, Whitman and their proximities, but change the boundary for them too. Redistrict everyone and fill up Crown. Demolish the existing Wootton building.

Wootton parent here and I agree completely. I have been saying it ever since the county wide boundary study drama before COVID. It does not make sense to have both of those schools, we just don't have the students. I understand we did not have a choice but to build Crown or risk the land so the decision to move Wootton while also adding in more students is perfect. Wootton can sit or get demolished until they decide we have the students to justify the expense. Similar situation with Northwood and even Woodward decades ago when they opened Walter Johnson.

As a Wootton parent I know it is not what my peers want to hear but it is what makes the most sense.

MCPS needs a holding school so the other question is do Wootton parents want the new school or are they ok with Crown being the holding school and stop complaining as many schools have the same issues and they are being offered a new school, unlike the other ones.

Crown being a holding school is not going to help Gaithersburg. The North Potomac, Gaithersburg and Rockville area has to be rezoned to fill up Crown along with Wootton. That is what should happen. How is it fair to Gaithersburg then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to build a new HS and fix up a crumbling one when enrollment is decreasing, budgets are being cut, and tax revenue is down.

The kids will be fine taking a bus instead of walking. Thousands of kids do it in MCPS. They will be fine.

More like 50% of the kids who can walk to Wootton will be forced to take a bus. That means their parents will have to drive to pick up for after school activities, further clogging the roads around Crown.

Wootton can be repaired in the interim, and renovated in the long term. It's just that MCPS doesn't want to do that.

They will survive. Gosh, how do the rest of us schlubs manage put our kids on the bus and drive to pick them up after school for activities.

Moco tax revenues are down. Enrollment is declining. Makes zero sense to rebuild Wootton for a few neighborhoods to have to take a bus.

I don't work for MCPS, and I think it's a stupid idea to fix Wootton AND open Crown.

It’s stupid idea to build crown. MCPS’s mismanagement is undeniable. They poured resources into opening an unnecessary school while neglecting Wootton’s needs, now forcing Wootton to become the victim of their poor planning and lose its current building where they belong for 50+ years. It’s no different from Silver Spring international middle school which is forced to close.

Sure, MCPS sucks, but when they started to build Crown, all of the surrounding HS were projected to be over capacity, and they didn't have this regional model concept.

Now, they are projecting enrollment declines, and we have a huge budget issue.

Yes, they should've fixed Wootton a while ago, but there were a lot of schools that needed to be fixed in the CIP.

So, here we are, declining enrollments, budget issues, a brand new HS, and another HS next to that new build that is falling apart.

Common sense is to move the Wootton kids to Crown.

This. Move Wootton to Crown, move many feeders to QO and Crown and improve QO and Crown. Wootton will not suffer much because of this (other than the parents crying about mixing with the brown and black people).

Wootton is not that special that they get to segregate all the Asians there. Spread them around to improve the other schools. Tiger parents will make the other schools also better.

They may help make the test scores and ratings better but it won't help the struggling students.

Here are the total enrollment numbers, enrollments for Blacks/African American and Hispanic/Latinos and their 2025 MCAP proficiency rates for the Wootton feeder schools:

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MCPS
Total enrollment: 159181
Overall FARMS Rate 42.9
Total Black/African American count: 34293
Total Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity count: 56716

MCAP Proficiency rates:
ELA All 57
FARMS 35
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 34.3
Black/African American 48.3


Math All 35.7
FARMS 15.4
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 15.7
Black/African American 22.9


Looking at the feeder elementary schools for Wootton:


Cold Spring
Total enrollment: 362
Overall FARMS Rate 8.2
Total Black/African American count: 25
Total Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity count: 31

MCAP Proficiency rates:
ELA All 84.2
FARMS 83.3
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 75
Black/African American 75


Math All 85.5
FARMS 79.2
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 90
Black/African American 47.1

Dufief
Total enrollment: 276
Overall FARMS Rate 19.1
Total Black/African American count: 46
Total Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity count: 40


MCAP Proficiency rates:
ELA All 57.8
FARMS 8.7
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 21.4
Black/African American 41.7


Math All 58.8
FARMS 5
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 26.7
Black/African American 33.3



Fallsmead
Total enrollment: 512
Overall FARMS Rate 21.2
Total Black/African American count: 55
Total Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity count: 76


MCAP Proficiency rates:
ELA All 73.9
FARMS 56.4
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 63.9
Black/African American 52.6


Math All 72.2
FARMS 53.4
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 50
Black/African American 57.9




Lakewood
Total enrollment: 406
Overall FARMS Rate 21.9
Total Black/African American count: 70
Total Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity count: 48


MCAP Proficiency rates:
ELA All 73.6
FARMS 42.1
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 62.5
Black/African American 50


Math All 68
FARMS 32.5
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 47.1
Black/African American 33.3




Stone Mill
Total enrollment: 516
Overall FARMS Rate 15.5
Total Black/African American count: 55
Total Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity count: 65


MCAP Proficiency rates:
ELA All 73.6
FARMS 58.3
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 60
Black/African American 57.1


Math All 74.1
FARMS 44.4
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 50
Black/African American 54.3



Travilah
Total enrollment: 372
Overall FARMS Rate 15.5
Total Black/African American count: 35
Total Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity count: 55

MCAP Proficiency rates:
ELA All 82.2
FARMS 62.5
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 73.3
Black/African American 69.6


Math All 74.7
FARMS 60.6
Hispanic/Latino of any ethnicity 68.8
Black/African American 41.7


---------------------------------

It's good that almost all of the groups at the schools are above the county averages. But look at Dufief. Dufief is middle of the pack when it comes to the FARMS rate out of those schools but barely above the county average for the ELA proficiency rates for all students. Then the FARMS, Hispanic/Latino and Black/African American subgroups have proficiency averages below the county average for the ELA test. Their FARMS student has a proficiency percentage of 5 percent compared to the county average of 15.4 percent.

Same thing with Stone Mill. Stone Mill is tied for the second lowest FARMS rate in the cluster with Travilah. However for overall ELA proficiency they're tied with Lakewood (which has a higher FARMS rate at 21.9 percent and highest in the cluster), only beating out Dufief. Their subgroups for ELA isn't bad. And their math numbers aren't bad, other then their FARMS Math proficiency rates are at the bottom three.

Cold Spring has great numbers but their populate of the FARMS, Hispanic/Latino Black/African American are small. So just one or two students can change the percentages a lot. And they also have the gifted program and more high performing students there.

This is just to point out, that even if demographics are spread out and evenly distributed, it doesn't necessarily help struggling students. To truly help struggling students would require a more quality of education and more resources need to be devoted to make sure they are truly understanding the material. Mixing up the demographics just kind of hides them.

This is interesting but not entirely accurate. Some elementary schools house self contained special education programs for students who take general education MCAP but struggle greatly with academics. This isn’t true of all special education students, of course - but Dufief, for example, houses a learning center. Students in that population may cause the proficiency to look worse than it is. We can’t be certain of the exact crossover with the FARMS population because releasing that sort of data would risk student privacy. Other elementary schools in the cluster have no self contained special education programs - only “home school” inclusion students.

In any case - the use of MCAP results to measure a school’s success, particularly as they relate to FARMS or different racial breakdowns, can be misleading given MCPS’s regional special education programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What no one has mentioned so far is logistics. Specifically transport.

If option H were to be the only change, I would be less concerned about bussing, but as it is, MCPS doesn't have enough buses/drivers for today's needs. So if option H becomes the way forward, then coupled with the proposed changes - namely grandfathered magnet students (so keeping current bussing levels) while implementing the new boundaries/regional programs which will overall increase demand for busses/drivers, how does MCPS then think they will also have enough to then bus all the Wootton students to Crown, many of whom are in the walk zone today?

We already know that Taylor's plan in his former school district caused bussing problems, making headline news - forcing students to opt-in to riding the school bus because there weren't enough seats. And that was for a muche smaller school district. I see this being the likely scenario again - with or without Option H - but Option H will exacerbate this situation even more. Then I imagine that's even more clogged local roads as a result for all the students who can't get a bus even if they want one.

Putting off the regional magnets or limiting it to just 2 more additional schools will solve this problem.

Their immediate issue is boundary filling up Crown. Instead of focusing on that and the logistics involved, they try to combine the regional magnets and boundary analysis together and throw the whole system into chaos. Idiots run the school system.

If it were me, I would move Wootton to Crown, throw in a Stem magnet there to keep the Wootton parents happy, add a Humanities Magnet to Gaithersburg to make them happy. Redistrict all the schools in this area so Crown aka New Wootton gets filled up.

Magnet parents will also be happy with the additional Stem magnet and Humanities Magnet.

This way you are actually trying to do something balanced. When things settle down add more regional magnets in a few years after seeing how the transportation works when adding 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What no one has mentioned so far is logistics. Specifically transport.

If option H were to be the only change, I would be less concerned about bussing, but as it is, MCPS doesn't have enough buses/drivers for today's needs. So if option H becomes the way forward, then coupled with the proposed changes - namely grandfathered magnet students (so keeping current bussing levels) while implementing the new boundaries/regional programs which will overall increase demand for busses/drivers, how does MCPS then think they will also have enough to then bus all the Wootton students to Crown, many of whom are in the walk zone today?

We already know that Taylor's plan in his former school district caused bussing problems, making headline news - forcing students to opt-in to riding the school bus because there weren't enough seats. And that was for a muche smaller school district. I see this being the likely scenario again - with or without Option H - but Option H will exacerbate this situation even more. Then I imagine that's even more clogged local roads as a result for all the students who can't get a bus even if they want one.

Putting off the regional magnets or limiting it to just 2 more additional schools will solve this problem.

Their immediate issue is boundary filling up Crown. Instead of focusing on that and the logistics involved, they try to combine the regional magnets and boundary analysis together and throw the whole system into chaos. Idiots run the school system.

If it were me, I would move Wootton to Crown, throw in a Stem magnet there to keep the Wootton parents happy, add a Humanities Magnet to Gaithersburg to make them happy. Redistrict all the schools in this area so Crown aka New Wootton gets filled up.

Magnet parents will also be happy with the additional Stem magnet and Humanities Magnet.

This way you are actually trying to do something balanced. When things settle down add more regional magnets in a few years after seeing how the transportation works when adding 2.

Do you somehow believe Gaithersburg or Wootton are the only places in the county complaining about programs and boundaries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did Adam Van Grack say there will be 1,000 more students go to Crown plus Wootton students? Is he serious?

For Option H, I don’t think the number of students who live in Crown and would be added to the new Wootton is 1,000 students. It’s a much smaller number.

If you look at the number of students in Option G that includes students living in Crown and even includes all of nearby students from Fields Roads elementary, it is 237 students in 2027-2028 and highest is 537 students in 2031-2032. And of those 537 students, the majority are from Fields Roads elementary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What no one has mentioned so far is logistics. Specifically transport.

If option H were to be the only change, I would be less concerned about bussing, but as it is, MCPS doesn't have enough buses/drivers for today's needs. So if option H becomes the way forward, then coupled with the proposed changes - namely grandfathered magnet students (so keeping current bussing levels) while implementing the new boundaries/regional programs which will overall increase demand for busses/drivers, how does MCPS then think they will also have enough to then bus all the Wootton students to Crown, many of whom are in the walk zone today?

We already know that Taylor's plan in his former school district caused bussing problems, making headline news - forcing students to opt-in to riding the school bus because there weren't enough seats. And that was for a muche smaller school district. I see this being the likely scenario again - with or without Option H - but Option H will exacerbate this situation even more. Then I imagine that's even more clogged local roads as a result for all the students who can't get a bus even if they want one.

Putting off the regional magnets or limiting it to just 2 more additional schools will solve this problem.

Their immediate issue is boundary filling up Crown. Instead of focusing on that and the logistics involved, they try to combine the regional magnets and boundary analysis together and throw the whole system into chaos. Idiots run the school system.

If it were me, I would move Wootton to Crown, throw in a Stem magnet there to keep the Wootton parents happy, add a Humanities Magnet to Gaithersburg to make them happy. Redistrict all the schools in this area so Crown aka New Wootton gets filled up.

Magnet parents will also be happy with the additional Stem magnet and Humanities Magnet.

This way you are actually trying to do something balanced. When things settle down add more regional magnets in a few years after seeing how the transportation works when adding 2.

Do you somehow believe Gaithersburg or Wootton are the only places in the county complaining about programs and boundaries?

No I don't but I am in a thread talking about these schools so I am addressing just this. Ask the DCC parents if they like the 6 regional magnets or their boundaries. If you read through the other threads about Kennedy you will know that there are more dissatisfied parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Adam Van Grack say there will be 1,000 more students go to Crown plus Wootton students? Is he serious?

For Option H, I don’t think the number of students who live in Crown and would be added to the new Wootton is 1,000 students. It’s a much smaller number.

If you look at the number of students in Option G that includes students living in Crown and even includes all of nearby students from Fields Roads elementary, it is 237 students in 2027-2028 and highest is 537 students in 2031-2032. And of those 537 students, the majority are from Fields Roads elementary.

It looks like Fields Road ES has an enrollment of 453 and Rosemont 564 and a total of 1017.

Maybe MCPS is looking into moving the entire/or large part of Rosemont ES to Crown, since they'll already have a portion of the school go there anyways?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Adam Van Grack say there will be 1,000 more students go to Crown plus Wootton students? Is he serious?

For Option H, I don’t think the number of students who live in Crown and would be added to the new Wootton is 1,000 students. It’s a much smaller number.

If you look at the number of students in Option G that includes students living in Crown and even includes all of nearby students from Fields Roads elementary, it is 237 students in 2027-2028 and highest is 537 students in 2031-2032. And of those 537 students, the majority are from Fields Roads elementary.

It looks like Fields Road ES has an enrollment of 453 and Rosemont 564 and a total of 1017.

Maybe MCPS is looking into moving the entire/or large part of Rosemont ES to Crown, since they'll already have a portion of the school go there anyways?

Moving all of Rosemont Elementary to Crown isn’t in any of the options including Option H. Crown students currently go to Rosemont elementary and if you look at the maps for the option G and H, it would only be the part of Rosemont elementary that lives in Crown that would be reassigned to Crown High School in its neighborhood. The maps for Option G and H show that the large part of Rosemont elementary on the other side of 270 near the school would not be reassigned to Crown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wootton Cluster:

If they redistrict these ES, it would be perfect. The parents whining about proximity will get what they want - proximity - just to a different high school

Wootton Cluster:
Cabin John (currently shared with Churchill):
Coldspring - Churchill
Stonemill - QO and Crown

Robert Frost:
Dufief - QO
Fallsmead - Churchill and Crown
Lakewood - Crown
Travilah - QO

Churchill is over capacity already, this won’t work.

Then they have to shuffle more schools in that area. If they can do it to Cabin Branch where people paid a million dollars for those homes thinking they go to Clarksburg but ended up at Seneca Valley, they can shake up the Churchill cluster too.

Churchill currently really wants option H because they have no change. And if Wooton gets moved away and not renovated, they are safer to stay where they are and have less risk of getting redistricted to Wooton, which they don’t like🥺