How to fix our crisis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son has always loved reading. He wishes he had the money to buy the books in a series he likes since they have very few of them at the library.

Good for your son. We’re talking about all boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To whoever posted about calc as a grad requirement, I strongly disagree with the idea that it’s necessary, but I disagree with most of the humanities students screeching about it too.

Calc was a graduation requirement for my very much not elite college, and most did it freshman year, and it was not that hard. I think a lot of people get discouraged by precal and start hating math when much of calculus is learning why you do all the nonsensical algebra work in the first place, and derivatives are pretty fun for a lot of students who aren’t into math at all. There’s now high schools with calculus requirements, and they seem to be fairing fine. I can confidently say as a STEM professional that I haven’t used any geometry in my career, nor have I don’t long division since I learned the topic. I have used calculus and much of statistics is calculus.

As a STEM person, you should understand that learning higher level math isn't necessarily about applying math in your job, but about being exposed to higher level critical thinking skills.

If the point is to strengthen critical thinking, then why not teach logic & stats instead of calculus?

We also have to prepare students for careers in stem, and most stem programs will not want to take you if you have no exposure to calculus. Calculus has the advantage of also teaching critical thinking; it’s not like logic is more critical thinking than calculus.

The question is just whether we should require calculus of all high school students as a condition for graduating. No one is suggesting eliminating calculus. Obviously there have always and will always be both students who want to pursue higher level math and STEM fields, and also demand for students who go this route.

But there are people who seem to think STEM is the only career path worth pursuing, that the key to fixing our education system is increasing the focus on math in particular and pushing all students to pursue high level math and science in high school. This group is also consistently dismissive of the value of non-STEM general ed subjects, including humanities subjects like history and literature as well as practical skills like public speaking and critical news analysis.

The obvious solution to this debate is that we need to rethink what general education requirements we should expect of all students. My proposal? End high school at age 16 or 10th grade. Combine middle and high school and create a curriculum for kids age 10-16 that covers the general ed basics including math through algebra, a broad humanities basis, practical skills including communications (written and oral), personal finance, and basic data analysis, plus exposure to arts and culture.

Then offer a publicly-funded tracked education system. Kids who want to pursue college would take a two year pre-college course preparing them for their chosen track (STEM or humanities, some schools could even offer combined programs for kids interested in fields that cross-over). This would replace the current AP system and the exams kids took at the end of this two-year program would replace AP and college placement exams, and possibly also the SAT.

Students who are not interested in pursuing 6 or more years of additional education could choose from among vocational programs. These could range from 6 months to 2 years depending on the program. Want to start working at 17 doing something like HVAC repair? Here's a 6 moth training program and an apprenticeship program. Want more of an office-based job like accounting or sales? Here's a 2 year program with classes taught by current and former practitioners that will prepare you for entry level jobs in these fields at age 18. These vocational programs could also be made available to adult mid-career changers who discovered they aren't suited to their prior job or whose jobs have been made obsolete due to technological or cultural changes. These vocational programs should be publicly funded and free to anyone wiling to do the work -- the goal is to have a trained workforce capable of filling the myriad of jobs our economy requires, and not to burden these people with student loans or make it impossible for them to enter fields in which they could excel because they can't afford it. Offering these programs to 16-18 year olds would also enable people to complete their vocational training earlier and encourage economic independence, freeing their parents to retire or downsize at an earlier age.

So no, not everyone needs to take calculus. We need to rethink education in a way that meets the needs of society -- of employers and workers and students and schools. Not everyone needs or wants to attend college. Not everyone should go into STEM. But every 16 year old should be able to do basic algebra, have a decent grasp of history, be able to competently read a book and write a two page paper explaining it's major themes, explain simple concepts to a group of people, send a grammatically correct email with a professional tone, understand how to read and interpret news sources and recognize bias in news, follow basic logic, and have a baseline appreciation for music, art, and literature. Beyond that... the world's your oyster. But everyone's oyster can be a little different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.

Not only that, but calculus is taken at much higher rates now than 20 years ago, yet according to OP, US education is in decline in that time. Meanwhile, colleges are reporting that many students are arriving on campus with an unwillingness to read long, complex texts and an inability to write at a college level.

Whatever is ailing the US education system, it cannot be fixed with universal calculus.[/quote]

Amen. That whole argument is ridiculous. An equally ridiculous argument on the other side would be that every student should have to take AP literature and composition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To whoever posted about calc as a grad requirement, I strongly disagree with the idea that it’s necessary, but I disagree with most of the humanities students screeching about it too.

Calc was a graduation requirement for my very much not elite college, and most did it freshman year, and it was not that hard. I think a lot of people get discouraged by precal and start hating math when much of calculus is learning why you do all the nonsensical algebra work in the first place, and derivatives are pretty fun for a lot of students who aren’t into math at all. There’s now high schools with calculus requirements, and they seem to be fairing fine. I can confidently say as a STEM professional that I haven’t used any geometry in my career, nor have I don’t long division since I learned the topic. I have used calculus and much of statistics is calculus.

As a STEM person, you should understand that learning higher level math isn't necessarily about applying math in your job, but about being exposed to higher level critical thinking skills.

If the point is to strengthen critical thinking, then why not teach logic & stats instead of calculus?

We also have to prepare students for careers in stem, and most stem programs will not want to take you if you have no exposure to calculus. Calculus has the advantage of also teaching critical thinking; it’s not like logic is more critical thinking than calculus.

The question is just whether we should require calculus of all high school students as a condition for graduating. No one is suggesting eliminating calculus. Obviously there have always and will always be both students who want to pursue higher level math and STEM fields, and also demand for students who go this route.

But there are people who seem to think STEM is the only career path worth pursuing, that the key to fixing our education system is increasing the focus on math in particular and pushing all students to pursue high level math and science in high school. This group is also consistently dismissive of the value of non-STEM general ed subjects, including humanities subjects like history and literature as well as practical skills like public speaking and critical news analysis.

The obvious solution to this debate is that we need to rethink what general education requirements we should expect of all students. My proposal? End high school at age 16 or 10th grade. Combine middle and high school and create a curriculum for kids age 10-16 that covers the general ed basics including math through algebra, a broad humanities basis, practical skills including communications (written and oral), personal finance, and basic data analysis, plus exposure to arts and culture.

Then offer a publicly-funded tracked education system. Kids who want to pursue college would take a two year pre-college course preparing them for their chosen track (STEM or humanities, some schools could even offer combined programs for kids interested in fields that cross-over). This would replace the current AP system and the exams kids took at the end of this two-year program would replace AP and college placement exams, and possibly also the SAT.

Students who are not interested in pursuing 6 or more years of additional education could choose from among vocational programs. These could range from 6 months to 2 years depending on the program. Want to start working at 17 doing something like HVAC repair? Here's a 6 moth training program and an apprenticeship program. Want more of an office-based job like accounting or sales? Here's a 2 year program with classes taught by current and former practitioners that will prepare you for entry level jobs in these fields at age 18. These vocational programs could also be made available to adult mid-career changers who discovered they aren't suited to their prior job or whose jobs have been made obsolete due to technological or cultural changes. These vocational programs should be publicly funded and free to anyone wiling to do the work -- the goal is to have a trained workforce capable of filling the myriad of jobs our economy requires, and not to burden these people with student loans or make it impossible for them to enter fields in which they could excel because they can't afford it. Offering these programs to 16-18 year olds would also enable people to complete their vocational training earlier and encourage economic independence, freeing their parents to retire or downsize at an earlier age.

So no, not everyone needs to take calculus. We need to rethink education in a way that meets the needs of society -- of employers and workers and students and schools. Not everyone needs or wants to attend college. Not everyone should go into STEM. But every 16 year old should be able to do basic algebra, have a decent grasp of history, be able to competently read a book and write a two page paper explaining it's major themes, explain simple concepts to a group of people, send a grammatically correct email with a professional tone, understand how to read and interpret news sources and recognize bias in news, follow basic logic, and have a baseline appreciation for music, art, and literature. Beyond that... the world's your oyster. But everyone's oyster can be a little different.

Every time this debate comes up, none of the humanities-defending commenters ever express where anyone said the humanities don’t matter. In fact, the original comment says nothing about not caring for, getting rid of, or eliminating the humanities. It actually sounds like they want to slide the normal track scale up, rather than taking another class. So all the comments saying they’re advocating for an additional class spot to be spent on calculus are just wrong. There’s too many emotions into what the comment actually stated: students should need calculus to graduate. That’s the debate. Not, that students shouldn’t be able to read, not that students shouldn’t be able to evaluate primary sources, not that students shouldn’t be majoring in Humanities. I agree with your final conclusion, but the first two paragraphs are speculative guesses of the intentions of that commenter.

Said another way, someone comments

Students should know how to read. It’s very important, and we should emphasize the value of a literary society

and all the responses of this post mirrored to this world are:
What a pretentious, upper middle class commenter who doesn’t understand that some students take up engineering, because they have a real passion and interest and seek financial stability that isn’t guaranteed with a humanities degree! Why do you people always advocate for getting rid of math and science out of our curriculum. We just recently existed a pandemic and look at the state of our public health knowledge!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

Because not everyone is ready for Algebra I in 8th grade.

I watched this unfold with my oldest in HoCo (at a MS in the Top 25%). Someone decided in 6th grade that everyone needed to be at least 1 grade level ahead in math. So they eliminated the 6th grade math courses and put all those kids in 7th grade math. Well, for my kid, it worked out. They have a talent for math, but have learning issues (anxiety, reading issues and ADHD) so had never tested into advanced math. After a D on first test (highest score in class), they went on to get an A that year and excel. However, the first 6 weeks of math were HELL for many many students, who simply were not ready for skipping a year of math at the 6/7th grade level---there is a reason they were ON GRADE LEVEL. It was a nightmare for on friends kid. Parents and kid went thru hell trying to do the homework, study and the stress was not needed. After 6 weeks, that parent along with others finally convinced the school to put some kids back into 6th grade math. That friend's kid got a B+ in math that year. And you know what, that kid went on to be a journalism major, and started working in sports journalism immediately upon graduation from a 4 year college and has continued to find great jobs to advance their career. They are happy, just not a STEM oriented kid. But that first 6-8 weeks of MS was an unnecessary hell and made the transition difficult (and killed the kids already fragile self esteem about math---they already felt they were not good at math---it's HoCo, everyone is advanced it seems. )

Parents need to stop teaching their kids that being bad at math should personally affect them. Way too much societal clearance that being trash at math is normal and valid. People speak about being bad at math like they’re being tortured-no, you struggle with critical thinking and don’t like being challenged. So many people “like math when I get it”

DP. Are you (or your kid) "trash" at reading Shakespeare? If so, I guess you don't like being challenged. Right?

Nope. My kid is thinking of double majoring in philosophy and math. Not everyone has to make excuses for their defeatist attitudes with being bad at things. You practice and you can get better at any subject.

You didn't respond to the question about Shakespeare. How many plays/sonnets/acts have you (or your kid) memorized?

Memorized? None. I can recite the scene where Lady Macbeth pleads to be unsexed by memory, because it’s one of my favorite moments in literature. Plays I’ve read? Basically all of them, I went to a classical high school way back when conservatives didn’t dominate that scene. My kid has read quite a few for English class, and I haven’t heard any issues through them; he likes a midsummer night’s dream, so…like what else do you need me to say? I don’t see why you envision that people who can take math classes can’t like reading?

There were posters - don't know if you were one of them - complaining about Shakespeare and insisting boys "don't like" literature, etc. The point was simply that not every subject is essential to every student. Not sure why some of you keep insisting otherwise.

The evidence does clue into boys and later men not reading at all. This is a startling reality that is making the book industry appeal more to women, because men aren’t reading. Boys often like speculative fiction genres that are discounted in school. You see this divide all the time where guys are interested in Murikami, McCarthy, Pynchon, Foster-Wallace, and are made fun of for it.

Who is "making fun" of them? My boys read widely, to include the listed authors. No one has ever made fun of them. So strange.

I mean I can open this can of worms for you, but you don’t sound interested and will only care about your boys experience.
“Lit bro” was a term literally created on the internet to denounce these types of guys.
For example: https://thestrand.ca/bro-do-you-even-lit/" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://thestrand.ca/bro-do-you-even-lit/
Or
https://gnocchiccodices.substack.com/p/consider-the-lit-bro" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://gnocchiccodices.substack.com/p/consider-the-lit-bro. This is a real thing in English departments, and people will try to push these guys out when they simply like a different flavor of English.

You seem to be describing a very tiny, very niche group of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

Because not everyone is ready for Algebra I in 8th grade.

I watched this unfold with my oldest in HoCo (at a MS in the Top 25%). Someone decided in 6th grade that everyone needed to be at least 1 grade level ahead in math. So they eliminated the 6th grade math courses and put all those kids in 7th grade math. Well, for my kid, it worked out. They have a talent for math, but have learning issues (anxiety, reading issues and ADHD) so had never tested into advanced math. After a D on first test (highest score in class), they went on to get an A that year and excel. However, the first 6 weeks of math were HELL for many many students, who simply were not ready for skipping a year of math at the 6/7th grade level---there is a reason they were ON GRADE LEVEL. It was a nightmare for on friends kid. Parents and kid went thru hell trying to do the homework, study and the stress was not needed. After 6 weeks, that parent along with others finally convinced the school to put some kids back into 6th grade math. That friend's kid got a B+ in math that year. And you know what, that kid went on to be a journalism major, and started working in sports journalism immediately upon graduation from a 4 year college and has continued to find great jobs to advance their career. They are happy, just not a STEM oriented kid. But that first 6-8 weeks of MS was an unnecessary hell and made the transition difficult (and killed the kids already fragile self esteem about math---they already felt they were not good at math---it's HoCo, everyone is advanced it seems. )

Parents need to stop teaching their kids that being bad at math should personally affect them. Way too much societal clearance that being trash at math is normal and valid. People speak about being bad at math like they’re being tortured-no, you struggle with critical thinking and don’t like being challenged. So many people “like math when I get it”

DP. Are you (or your kid) "trash" at reading Shakespeare? If so, I guess you don't like being challenged. Right?

Nope. My kid is thinking of double majoring in philosophy and math. Not everyone has to make excuses for their defeatist attitudes with being bad at things. You practice and you can get better at any subject.

You didn't respond to the question about Shakespeare. How many plays/sonnets/acts have you (or your kid) memorized?

Memorized? None. I can recite the scene where Lady Macbeth pleads to be unsexed by memory, because it’s one of my favorite moments in literature. Plays I’ve read? Basically all of them, I went to a classical high school way back when conservatives didn’t dominate that scene. My kid has read quite a few for English class, and I haven’t heard any issues through them; he likes a midsummer night’s dream, so…like what else do you need me to say? I don’t see why you envision that people who can take math classes can’t like reading?

There were posters - don't know if you were one of them - complaining about Shakespeare and insisting boys "don't like" literature, etc. The point was simply that not every subject is essential to every student. Not sure why some of you keep insisting otherwise.

The evidence does clue into boys and later men not reading at all. This is a startling reality that is making the book industry appeal more to women, because men aren’t reading. Boys often like speculative fiction genres that are discounted in school. You see this divide all the time where guys are interested in Murikami, McCarthy, Pynchon, Foster-Wallace, and are made fun of for it.

Who is "making fun" of them? My boys read widely, to include the listed authors. No one has ever made fun of them. So strange.

I mean I can open this can of worms for you, but you don’t sound interested and will only care about your boys experience.
“Lit bro” was a term literally created on the internet to denounce these types of guys.
For example: https://thestrand.ca/bro-do-you-even-lit/" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://thestrand.ca/bro-do-you-even-lit/
Or
https://gnocchiccodices.substack.com/p/consider-the-lit-bro" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://gnocchiccodices.substack.com/p/consider-the-lit-bro. This is a real thing in English departments, and people will try to push these guys out when they simply like a different flavor of English.

You seem to be describing a very tiny, very niche group of people.

You seem to only believe your own tune. It’s been well documented and you can read the New York Times article on the absence of men in literature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To whoever posted about calc as a grad requirement, I strongly disagree with the idea that it’s necessary, but I disagree with most of the humanities students screeching about it too.

Calc was a graduation requirement for my very much not elite college, and most did it freshman year, and it was not that hard. I think a lot of people get discouraged by precal and start hating math when much of calculus is learning why you do all the nonsensical algebra work in the first place, and derivatives are pretty fun for a lot of students who aren’t into math at all. There’s now high schools with calculus requirements, and they seem to be fairing fine. I can confidently say as a STEM professional that I haven’t used any geometry in my career, nor have I don’t long division since I learned the topic. I have used calculus and much of statistics is calculus.

As a STEM person, you should understand that learning higher level math isn't necessarily about applying math in your job, but about being exposed to higher level critical thinking skills.

If the point is to strengthen critical thinking, then why not teach logic & stats instead of calculus?

We also have to prepare students for careers in stem, and most stem programs will not want to take you if you have no exposure to calculus. Calculus has the advantage of also teaching critical thinking; it’s not like logic is more critical thinking than calculus.

DP. We don't have to prepare students *who aren't interested in STEM* for careers in STEM. There is plenty of focus on STEM instruction already.

Such as? Just having stem classes doesn’t mean there’s plenty of focus.

So, you're suggesting... pushing people into STEM who have no interest and who, instead, are interested in other subjects?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Institute ability and interest based tracking systems starting in early elementary school....these groupings are fluid and students may move into higher or lower level classes based upon performance and interests. Teachers cannot be expected to teach all levels and all subjects at once.

Bingo again. Flexible groupings have been discussed before on the FCPS forum and there are always people who insist it won't work. Meanwhile, that's what my school (also FCPS) used throughout my school years. It works beautifully and allows everyone to excel (or receive remedial help) as needed.

But school districts think it’s racist.

Yes. Because most school districts are run by LWNJ imbeciles with zero common sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

Because not everyone is ready for Algebra I in 8th grade.

I watched this unfold with my oldest in HoCo (at a MS in the Top 25%). Someone decided in 6th grade that everyone needed to be at least 1 grade level ahead in math. So they eliminated the 6th grade math courses and put all those kids in 7th grade math. Well, for my kid, it worked out. They have a talent for math, but have learning issues (anxiety, reading issues and ADHD) so had never tested into advanced math. After a D on first test (highest score in class), they went on to get an A that year and excel. However, the first 6 weeks of math were HELL for many many students, who simply were not ready for skipping a year of math at the 6/7th grade level---there is a reason they were ON GRADE LEVEL. It was a nightmare for on friends kid. Parents and kid went thru hell trying to do the homework, study and the stress was not needed. After 6 weeks, that parent along with others finally convinced the school to put some kids back into 6th grade math. That friend's kid got a B+ in math that year. And you know what, that kid went on to be a journalism major, and started working in sports journalism immediately upon graduation from a 4 year college and has continued to find great jobs to advance their career. They are happy, just not a STEM oriented kid. But that first 6-8 weeks of MS was an unnecessary hell and made the transition difficult (and killed the kids already fragile self esteem about math---they already felt they were not good at math---it's HoCo, everyone is advanced it seems. )

Parents need to stop teaching their kids that being bad at math should personally affect them. Way too much societal clearance that being trash at math is normal and valid. People speak about being bad at math like they’re being tortured-no, you struggle with critical thinking and don’t like being challenged. So many people “like math when I get it”

DP. Are you (or your kid) "trash" at reading Shakespeare? If so, I guess you don't like being challenged. Right?

Nope. My kid is thinking of double majoring in philosophy and math. Not everyone has to make excuses for their defeatist attitudes with being bad at things. You practice and you can get better at any subject.

You didn't respond to the question about Shakespeare. How many plays/sonnets/acts have you (or your kid) memorized?

Memorized? None. I can recite the scene where Lady Macbeth pleads to be unsexed by memory, because it’s one of my favorite moments in literature. Plays I’ve read? Basically all of them, I went to a classical high school way back when conservatives didn’t dominate that scene. My kid has read quite a few for English class, and I haven’t heard any issues through them; he likes a midsummer night’s dream, so…like what else do you need me to say? I don’t see why you envision that people who can take math classes can’t like reading?

There were posters - don't know if you were one of them - complaining about Shakespeare and insisting boys "don't like" literature, etc. The point was simply that not every subject is essential to every student. Not sure why some of you keep insisting otherwise.

The evidence does clue into boys and later men not reading at all. This is a startling reality that is making the book industry appeal more to women, because men aren’t reading. Boys often like speculative fiction genres that are discounted in school. You see this divide all the time where guys are interested in Murikami, McCarthy, Pynchon, Foster-Wallace, and are made fun of for it.

Who is "making fun" of them? My boys read widely, to include the listed authors. No one has ever made fun of them. So strange.

I mean I can open this can of worms for you, but you don’t sound interested and will only care about your boys experience.
“Lit bro” was a term literally created on the internet to denounce these types of guys.
For example: https://thestrand.ca/bro-do-you-even-lit/" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://thestrand.ca/bro-do-you-even-lit/
Or
https://gnocchiccodices.substack.com/p/consider-the-lit-bro" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://gnocchiccodices.substack.com/p/consider-the-lit-bro. This is a real thing in English departments, and people will try to push these guys out when they simply like a different flavor of English.

+1. There’s an amazing New York Times article on this topic. Men and boys are not reading and have all but left the field of English. The social reasons are complex and interesting, and include issues like these.

This is such a wild generalization about "men and boys." And the links above are absolutely absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has always loved reading. He wishes he had the money to buy the books in a series he likes since they have very few of them at the library.

Good for your son. We’re talking about all boys.

Well, don't. You don't speak for "all boys" any more than the PP does. The boys in my life are voracious readers. I'm sure there are many just like them elsewhere. Just because some boys don't read certainly doesn't mean ALL boys.

[Anonymous]

For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has always loved reading. He wishes he had the money to buy the books in a series he likes since they have very few of them at the library.

Good for your son. We’re talking about all boys.

Well, don't. You don't speak for "all boys" any more than the PP does. The boys in my life are voracious readers. I'm sure there are many just like them elsewhere. Just because some boys don't read certainly doesn't mean ALL boys.

Remember folks. Facts, data, stats don’t matter. Oh what’s that? People are arguing we should be teaching statistics?…right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how bad the US system is, we actually score higher on PISA than France, Germany, Sweden, Austria, Netherlands, Norway and many other first world countries that nobody seems to claim are in educational crisis.

Now tell us a bit about the PISA scores distributed across race. It’ll be delightful to hear how much progress we’ve made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To whoever posted about calc as a grad requirement, I strongly disagree with the idea that it’s necessary, but I disagree with most of the humanities students screeching about it too.

Calc was a graduation requirement for my very much not elite college, and most did it freshman year, and it was not that hard. I think a lot of people get discouraged by precal and start hating math when much of calculus is learning why you do all the nonsensical algebra work in the first place, and derivatives are pretty fun for a lot of students who aren’t into math at all. There’s now high schools with calculus requirements, and they seem to be fairing fine. I can confidently say as a STEM professional that I haven’t used any geometry in my career, nor have I don’t long division since I learned the topic. I have used calculus and much of statistics is calculus.

As a STEM person, you should understand that learning higher level math isn't necessarily about applying math in your job, but about being exposed to higher level critical thinking skills.

If the point is to strengthen critical thinking, then why not teach logic & stats instead of calculus?

We also have to prepare students for careers in stem, and most stem programs will not want to take you if you have no exposure to calculus. Calculus has the advantage of also teaching critical thinking; it’s not like logic is more critical thinking than calculus.

DP. We don't have to prepare students *who aren't interested in STEM* for careers in STEM. There is plenty of focus on STEM instruction already.

Such as? Just having stem classes doesn’t mean there’s plenty of focus.

So, you're suggesting... pushing people into STEM who have no interest and who, instead, are interested in other subjects?

Who’s pushing who in stem?! Stop talking in abstracts. Name a classroom policy that makes people take up STEM in an unfair way.

[Anonymous]

Just gonna lightly drop this in here and exit.

Overall, women read more than men, according to the Pew Research Center. Women are significantly more likely than men to read fiction: a study by the National Endowment of the Arts found that in 2008, for example, 41.9 percent of men reported reading literature, versus 58 percent of women. (Men are slightly more likely than women to be daily readers of current events, according to the Pew findings.)

By the time boys get to high school, large numbers are lagging behind and losing interest in reading; for many, high school reading requirements are the final straw. Says tenth grader Sanjay Mahboobani, “The huge workload that teachers give us for every book is the root of our hatred of reading.”

Wilhelm agrees. “School actually kills engagement in reading for many boys,” he says.